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Author Topic: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?  (Read 843 times)

Online Dennis Toth

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Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« on: November 04, 2018, 05:23:06 AM »
Guys,
Just finish competing in OTS at the Palmetto fall contest down here in FL, great contest got 1st had a good day. When I finished for the day I wiped down the ship as usual. When I got home I noticed a tear in the silk covering on the outboard wing upper surface. Not sure how it got there was nothing to bonce on it in the car, oh well.

Question is, the ship is Brodak dope over K&S silk with the final top coat of death paint clear. The ship is about 4yrs old. I have never had to repair over death paint and was wondering do you just cut out the ripped panel, sand back to scuff the death paint then dope down the silk patch and refinish? Or is there something else needed to get the base dope to adhere to the edges without having a drying problem or wrinkling up the old finish around the patch?


Best,   DennisT 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 05:44:49 AM by Dennis Toth »

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2018, 07:26:17 AM »
Photo?
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2018, 12:07:23 PM »
Dennis, for a starting place, read the topic just below this one about two part failure.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2018, 12:40:53 PM »
Guys,
Here is a picture of the split in the covering. All the other panels are solid.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Motorman

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 05:42:16 PM »
Death paint = ? Is there a solvent?
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2018, 09:24:41 AM »
Of course I don't go for 20 point finishes,  I use clear model plane cement like SIG.  Start at each end of tear and apply a small dab.  When done it will be hard to see from normal distance. D>K
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 10:12:40 AM »
Of course I don't go for 20 point finishes,  I use clear model plane cement like SIG.  Start at each end of tear and apply a small dab.  When done it will be hard to see from normal distance. D>K

Or with aged eyesight.  n~
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 04:26:17 PM »
In the good old days, we just ran a bead of Ambroid. As it dried, it shrunk up the covering.  An old free flight trick, but it works. Sigment or Duco. will do the same. Worth a try and it gives the  model that used look and "character".  H^^
Still probably the best solution.  We don't have shrinking glues like we used to.  You can also fill a small gap your way.  I used to use Testors for this because it dried clear and fast.   Might be able to use a clear Epoxy.  Lots of stubble in the fields around here so we were always patching the bottoms of our FF ships.  Then there is always the hi tech approach - packaging tape!

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Offline George Hostler

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 11:24:40 PM »
Of course I don't go for 20 point finishes,  I use clear model plane cement like SIG.  Start at each end of tear and apply a small dab.  When done it will be hard to see from normal distance. D>K

I call it a perfect "10" - looks good viewing 10 feet away.  y1

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2018, 06:19:27 AM »
I have thought about doing the glue type repair but am concerned that this will lose the bending strength that the covering adds to the wing. Do you think it would maintain strength?

Normally, I would just cut out the panel to the solid area and put the patch overlapping on the remaining silk then refinish and all would be good. For the El D it is similar to an I beam type construction and also clear finished to allow the dyed silk to show through. When you overlap the silk you get a dark area and it kinda ruins the look.

Other option I though about was to use a strip of 1/2 oz fiberglass cloth to cover the split adhering with some clear resin or just dope hoping the glass would be clear and not have the dark streak?

Best,   DennisT

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2018, 09:19:16 AM »
I have thought about doing the glue type repair but am concerned that this will lose the bending strength that the covering adds to the wing. Do you think it would maintain strength?

Normally, I would just cut out the panel to the solid area and put the patch overlapping on the remaining silk then refinish and all would be good. For the El D it is similar to an I beam type construction and also clear finished to allow the dyed silk to show through. When you overlap the silk you get a dark area and it kinda ruins the look.

Other option I though about was to use a strip of 1/2 oz fiberglass cloth to cover the split adhering with some clear resin or just dope hoping the glass would be clear and not have the dark streak?

Best,   DennisT
Is there such a thing as clear MonoKote?  That would have enough give to maintain the flex.  I don't think any covering is going to flex much once the dope loses it's elasticity.
I don't think Fiberglass will get clear enough to not stand out.  How about covering the panel then drawing some real thick panel lines....didn't like that much either.

Good Luck - Ken
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2018, 12:48:03 PM »
Is there such a thing as clear MonoKote?  That would have enough give to maintain the flex.

I use clear monokote all the time. Not a knock off, or some weird iron on, but actual clear monokote.

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2018, 09:24:07 PM »
Guys,

I've been thinking this one over...and I have to ask:
What is "death paint?"

This is a new term for me.

Thanks in advance,

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2018, 09:53:54 AM »
Jim,
"Death Paint" is a term commonly used here in control line stunt that refers to a two part Urethane Clear top coat such as SprayMax 3680061, 2K Urethane Clear Coat aerosol. This top coat is crystal clear and 100% fuel proof with a very high gloss. You must use a good spray mask when applying and for most of us, that don't have a professional spray booth, should be sprayed outdoors with the wind at your back. It gets the name "Death Paint" (DP) because if used improperly it can cause some serious health issues.

The reason for the question about the repair is unlike dope that would simply melt the old coat of dope and adhere solidly to the below coats, DP does not soften and adhesion to it is iffy at best as it has to glue itself to the surface. Seems I remember Windy saying you need to sand off the DP back away from the repair so the dope grips to dope, then refinish with the last top coat being the DP.

Best,   DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing rip in silk with death paint top coat?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2019, 04:44:47 PM »
Getting ready to apply the patch to the wing. I decided to cut out the whole section and will attach the silk patch with CA then dope down. I will check the glue joints while I have it open. Also need to put a small patch on a little scar you can see on the bottom of the wing that is not through the fabric so I can apply the patch on the inside to prevent further damage. I will flex the wing up then put the patch on will dope and finish trim.


Best,   DennisT
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 08:00:39 PM by Dennis Toth »


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