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Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: Shorts,David on March 02, 2020, 06:37:06 PM

Title: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Shorts,David on March 02, 2020, 06:37:06 PM
Hi, I couldn't find this answer, maybe I need a little guidance.

I can do a pretty good monocote wingtip. My silk wingtips came out good. But this polyspan doesn't bend or go around corners very well. Even the directions say not to do wingtips. Does this mean...
A. carve wingtips from balsa rather than building them up?

Or

B. Don't use polyspan.

Or

C. If I get polyspan wet, will it wrap around and stick to a wingtip?

Or

What? I've heard about using CA on the edges of polyspan. Could I CA it to the wingtip, then shrink it?

Thanks
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Avaiojet on March 02, 2020, 06:41:34 PM
Hi, I couldn't find this answer, maybe I need a little guidance.

I can do a pretty good monocote wingtip. My silk wingtips came out good. But this polyspan doesn't bend or go around corners very well. Even the directions say not to do wingtips. Does this mean...
A. carve wingtips from balsa rather than building them up?

Or

B. Don't use polyspan.

Or

C. If I get polyspan wet, will it wrap around and stick to a wingtip?

Or

What? I've heard about using CA on the edges of polyspan. Could I CA it to the wingtip, then shrink it?

Thanks

Why are you using Polyspan?

CB
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Dave Hull on March 02, 2020, 08:07:19 PM
Da Shorts,

I just submitted a build article to our club newsletter last week that had a couple photos and some comments. Let me try to post them here.

People say don't use it on wingtips. To pre-cover these with silkspan. But I think that advice could be more specific. It works fine for some wingtips. In my example, I used it to cover a carved tip the same way I would have covered with tissue or silkspan--except for getting it wet and trying to stretch it. Since polyspan is a synthetic fiber material, getting it wet is not going to make it relax or shrink.

If you were going to use it on a Flight Streak-like tip, I would just make sure the gussets were wide enough, and strategically located that you could slit and attach the polyspan at each of these, as needed.

I don't know about using CyA. I found nitrate dope to be sticky and thick enough to hold over reasonable curves. Not sure if CyA might give you hard spots that would telegraph thru any finish?

Da Divot



(2394) People will say that polyspan doesn't go around curves real well and that you are better off pre-covering wingtips and other compound curves with tissue or silkspan. On this plane, since I was experimenting, I decided to go polyspan all the way. Here is the covering job you are faced with.

(2398) I used the same techniques I would have used on tissue, slitting and butting the covering as needed. The inboard tip is a bit more difficult as you must work around the leadout wires. It came out fine and wasn't really any more difficult than tissue. Just don't try to sand it until you have plenty of dope on it.

Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Shorts,David on March 02, 2020, 10:29:13 PM
Why are you using Polyspan?

CB
One reason I'm using polyspan is because I haven't used polyspan yet. Another reason is at least a few concours winners have been covered in polyspan. Though that doesn't mean the majority I'm sure.
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Fredvon4 on March 03, 2020, 11:22:43 AM
Robert has videos on just about every aspect of his techniques.....way up top is you tube link...the search box works well

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=polyspan

Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Shorts,David on March 03, 2020, 08:07:58 PM
Robert has videos on just about every aspect of his techniques.....way up top is you tube link...the search box works well

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=polyspan

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Sometimes we overlook the obvious I guess. At least I do.  Thanks
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: john e. holliday on March 03, 2020, 09:25:43 PM
Hey David we all have that problem once in a while.  I use heat sensitive adhesive and use the heat to make the poly-span go around the surfaces.  Once in a while I may have to put a patch on.  When I was using dope, after a few coats you could hardly feel the seam or wrinkle.   The primer coats will take care of the rest. Keep us posted. H^^
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Balsa Butcher on March 09, 2020, 11:08:59 AM
I've tried it both ways and have found that covering the solid tips with silkspan is my preference. Silkspan is easier (for me anyway) to apply and you can sand/blend the seams without worrying about "fuzzies ". After a few coats of dope the surface will be indistinguishable from the polyspanned  open bay areas. I sometimes use silkspan on open bay built up wingtips. Same advantages as on solid tips but I have found I have found that using 2 layers of silkspan give the silkspan covering more puncture resistance.  8)
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Mike Haverly on March 09, 2020, 12:49:24 PM
With practice, polyspan is no harder to use than anything else.  Heat, stretch, trim and repeat until complete.  It stretches a lot like Monokote, just takes practice.
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 09, 2020, 04:35:48 PM
With practice, polyspan is no harder to use than anything else.  Heat, stretch, trim and repeat until complete.  It stretches a lot like Monokote, just takes practice.

The technique I use for 'coat is to leave an inch or two of extra all around, put a glove on my right hand, then pull the covering into place with the gloved hand while holding the heat gun in the other.  (In other words -- I use the technique straight out of Faye Stilley's book on covering with Monocoat).

Is that what you do, or is there another way?
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: fred cesquim on April 14, 2020, 11:22:36 AM
if you´re talking about open structure covering, can be done
it´s a lot f work and you have to use multiple parts and direct the "grain" parallel to the longest area. this Stuka wigtip is polyspan in several directions.
i use undiluted dope on the borders to attach them. i use a brush and run dope under the new piece of polyspan, attach the polyspan and with a toilet paper i clean up the surplus which makes the polyspan to stick almost instantly on the edges
hope i could make in easy to understand
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Dave Hull on April 15, 2020, 09:42:45 PM
Nice looking job, Fred.  Do you find the overlapping seams disappear with just the dope finish, or are you using filler, or....?

Dave
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Mike Haverly on April 15, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
Fred has it right.  Any small anomalies will disappear with more dope, and a little heat if necessary.  Again, nitrate works better than butyrate for application but butyrate will work.
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: fred cesquim on April 16, 2020, 05:57:47 AM
thanks guys
most of the overlap will settle with dope. some heat gun may be necessary to taut but be careful not to overheat, overstretch and lost the fibers strength.
i got rid of the remaining overlap marks with the primer coat
 
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Avaiojet on April 18, 2020, 07:57:09 AM
if you´re talking about open structure covering, can be done
it´s a lot f work and you have to use multiple parts and direct the "grain" parallel to the longest area. this Stuka wigtip is polyspan in several directions.
i use undiluted dope on the borders to attach them. i use a brush and run dope under the new piece of polyspan, attach the polyspan and with a toilet paper i clean up the surplus which makes the polyspan to stick almost instantly on the edges
hope i could make in easy to understand

Fred,

Is silk available in Brazil?

Charles
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: fred cesquim on April 20, 2020, 08:10:30 AM
Hello Charles!
yes, silk for cloth and silk screen work is available and local modelers use them.
i used twice and gave up, too heavy and prone to brittle finish for my method
as you know i am a monokote painted finish fan, bit if i really need a doped tissue finish, polyspan is my choice. works great and relatively light
regards from brazil my friend!
Title: Re: polyspan on built up wingtips
Post by: Ken Culbertson on April 20, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
 y1
With practice, polyspan is no harder to use than anything else.  Heat, stretch, trim and repeat until complete.  It stretches a lot like Monokote, just takes practice.