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Author Topic: How much dope?  (Read 1687 times)

Offline Paul Taylor

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How much dope?
« on: May 05, 2011, 12:22:47 PM »
How much dope do I need to buy to paint a 40 size plane?

Thinking of doing two colors.

2 pts?
Paul
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Offline kenneth cook

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2011, 02:16:37 PM »
          Paul, your going to use a lot more clear than color. Your also going to use a lot of thinner. If spraying your going to mix a 60% thinner to paint ratio. I also can tell just by stirring. The paint has to be quite thin whether your spraying or brushing. You just thin it slightly more if spraying. Depending on what kind of finish your trying to achieve its going to take you probably 3 brush coats and possibly 3 spray coats of clear even before you go to color and that's assuming your going for a fair finish. Just remember not to skimp on the clear but don't overdo it as well. I typically thin the initial brush coats fairly thin so it soaks in. I lay off the thinner a bit on my last brush coat before going to spraying. I sand on my 2nd coat just to knock down the grain a bit and smooth things up. I do this with 320. I sometimes use 240 as well on the first sanding eventually going to 400. To answer your initial question though is quite tough. We can't purchase the exact amount of paint we need to do these projects. Your going to end up with more and more than likely your surely going to use it again. If your spraying your going to need to clean your equipment as well. I've used acetone with Sig dope, but I've found with Brodak their thinner works the best for me. I also purchased Dupont 3608s which I use to clean equipment as well. Thinner evaporates and this happens when you have the bottle open during the brushing stage. If the dope starts pulling and dragging another splash of thinner is needed. So you can see thinner is going to get the most play. I would have at least a quart of thinner on hand. Remember its better to have too much than to have to run out for more. Not everyone stocks this stuff and waiting from suppliers such as Brodak's can result in a week and also hazmat fees. After your color coats you should really spray on additional coats of clear so once again this material is getting used at a fairly decent rate. Colors on the other hand especially trim colors don't get used all that much. The problem is the 4oz. bottles cost as much as the pints do. When I spray a plane in the size your mentioning, it takes me at least 4oz just to cover the plane wings, fuse, etc. This really is a light coat which is what you want anyhow. I've had to stop and mix more during this step and that can be a bit of a pain. My gun can hold more, but the way I need to hold it I don't need any spilling out so I don't completely fill my paint cup. Take into consideration that my gun is really quite large and puts out more in the air and I'm also spraying outdoors. This all adds up to paint just blowing around your model rather than on it. A confined proper makeshift booth would do much better with less material. Ken
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 05:39:31 PM by kenneth cook »

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 06:56:42 PM »
Thanks Ken,
That is some great information. Sounds like more is better.
Paul
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 08:15:05 PM »
And you may have to thin it more than 60% depending on the color you're using. Most of mine I have to cut as much as 150% depending on a lot of factors. I buy color by the pint and seldom use more than a quarter of a can for base color. Some times a bit more depending on the color. I have cans of color that are most full that I've used for trim colors on several planes.
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Offline kenneth cook

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 04:49:33 AM »
            As Randy stated, sometimes the paint needs to thinned more and I couldn't agree more. I couldn't give a full tutorial on how to apply the product just an insight as to why you need so much. In cases like silver, I find that to be problematic at times due to its viscous state in the can. I've found that I used to overthin it usually resulting in a very opaque spotty finish. The metallics separate quite quickly. You also didn't say what type of dope you may possibly be using. In these parts of the woods, I can generally get by spraying any of the Sig dope with terrific results and generally a 95% success rate. I can't make that claim using Brodak's. The thinners in the two are quite different and although they may be interchangeable I generally keep same product rule as to not cause compatibility issues. By mid May here I highly doubt I could spray Brodak dope without using Brodak's retarder. These are self taught lessons.  I've almost never needed retarder in Sig dope and I strongly feel if you do, your spraying in the wrong environment. The Sig thinner is a slow drying thinner which results in a real flat finish generally holding the most shine without having to sand polish. It takes a bit of practice getting used to the both of them especially when your switching back in forth in the same day. Typically, I save the models and try and do most of my painting simultaneously. This is the reasoning for using several types of dope in a single day. I just didn't add the retarder issue in my post above and I thought I would make mention of it. When the dope blushes and turns milky white in spots you will understand the importance of the retarder. You just don't want to use lots of retarder due to its ability to keep the product wet for longer periods which can result in it lifting your attachment coats and blistering in fillet areas around the wing, stab etc. Once again another product that may be possibly needed. Ken

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 10:29:11 AM »
Kenneth is right. Due to the nature of shooting lacquers, conditions are the key. Most lacquers (Sig, Randolph's, Certified or Brodak's - others too, I'm sure) are dependent on shooting in at least good if not ideal conditions. I live in an area of cool temps and high humidity. Lacquers can go sideways on you if the temp or humidity is too high or too low. I've had more problems than I can list from shooting paint in poor conditions. I finally broke down and got a de-humidifier for my shop and a better heat system. Strangely enough, my latest project has had zero paint problems (some self inflicted difficulties, but nothing caused by painting issues). Go figure.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2011, 08:23:53 AM »
I buy all my dope colors and clear in quart cans.  Then I have a supply of canning jars(quart size) to transfer the dope to when the can is open.  Use aluminum foil between the sealing lid and the dope.  The thinners/reducers I get in gallon cans when possible.  No haz mat fees for quart cans.   Another thing about the jars is you can see when the pigment is all mixed in.  Surprising how much pigment is still in the bottom of the metal can, even after shaking and stirring.   H^^
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2011, 11:31:20 AM »
Doc,

yeah, a few years ago I transferred all my paint to canning jars (but I'm using phenolic lids so no foil). Nice to be able to see what color is what and I can just hold up the jar to a plane and decide if I want to use it. Very cool.
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Offline Kelly Wilson

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 09:54:32 AM »
Question?? Most of the local hobby shops in my area carry Nitrate clear, but no thinner. When I ask for the thinner I get a blank stare. Does anyone know of a good substitute for nitrate thinner?

Offline billbyles

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Re: How much dope?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2011, 04:53:18 PM »
Question?? Most of the local hobby shops in my area carry Nitrate clear, but no thinner. When I ask for the thinner I get a blank stare. Does anyone know of a good substitute for nitrate thinner?

Butyrate thinner works just fine in nitrate...however, nitrate thinner will not work at all in butyrate dope.
Bill Byles
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