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Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: Bootlegger on February 01, 2021, 05:31:53 AM
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Are their any up dates on using polycrylic for your finishing methods? I am looking at these finishes for a new model.. ~^ #^
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Are their any up dates on using polycrylic for your finishing methods? I am looking at these finishes for a new model.. ~^ #^
If you mean "Minwax Polycrylic," naming the brand is important, I've been using it for years and mention this in all my Build threads.
Go over to CFC Graphics and read the Builds, there's photos there also.
I've also used Deft Wood Sealer Lacquer for applying silk on sheeted areas.
For this purpose, it works a bit better than the Minwax Polycrylic.
Are you catching up on finishing methods?
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I tried it once.
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I tried it once.
You should try it again because it's a great product.
Here's the proof.
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It works great to apply and fill fiberglass or tissue to balsa. The T-Rex designer mentioned that in a post somewhere. It's in the house friendly and cheap.
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You should use what you like.
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Didn't work for me.
I used it to fuelproof the front end of an RC assist old timer with a Saito 45 four stroke. The Minwax Polycrilic gets gummy when I clean the model off with mild detergent.
Ara
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Minwax Polycrilic is not fuel proof but can still be used for fill coats. Since it's a water based paint I put on 2 coats of nitrate dope before using on bare balsa. Brushed right out of the can it goes on thick. 2 coats of polycrylic is plenty. It's heavy to use as fill coats this way. The only reason to use it is speed and convenience. Not as bad as dope but, it's not without fumes.
Motorman 8)
Nitrate is a product which I have absolutely no use for. But that's me. I just use clear dope for the first couple of thinned coats over bare wood.
No need for "silver" base coats either, but that's me.
If you really want speed and convenience, I suggest you take a good long gander on how I finish my models.
It could work for you also.
CB
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The over riding factor for me is that I have a big can of Nitrate to use up LOL. I've also heard that it sticks better than buterate but I'll bet there's not much difference. I know nitrate shrinks less and the first coats don't have to be fuel proof so I gotta' use up what I've got with todays prices and shipping.
Motorman 8)
It was described to me as --
nitrate sticks to everything and everything sticks to nitrate
butyrate sticks to nothing and nothing sticks to it.
Mileage may vary.
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If I've got it right, nitrate finishes were OK with spark ignition engines using gasoline and oil but were doomed when glow plugs were invented using nitro fuel. Nitro dissolved nitrate dope finishes so butyrate dope replaced it when modelers switched to glow engines.
Ara
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If I've got it right, nitrate finishes were OK with spark ignition engines using gasoline and oil but was doomed when glow plugs were invented using nitro fuel. Nitro dissolved nitrate dope finishes so butyrate dope replaced it when modelers switched to glow engines.
Ara
For the type of finishes I require, nitrate isn't needed.
There is no dope which is fuel proof.
Two part auto clear is what's being used. If someone isn't using this now, they will eventually.
Epoxy in the engine area.
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For the type of finishes I require, nitrate isn't needed.
There is no dope which is fuel proof.
Two part auto clear is what's being used. If someone isn't using this now, they will eventually.
Epoxy in the engine area.
Well, since you never fly your models, you can finish them in stucco if you want to. If you want to read what Nitrate is all about, just search out threads that Bill Byles has commented on. Bill does full size aircraft dope finishes professionally and has laid out the process many times over the years here. If you have any old SIG catalogs, the dope process is explained in those also and I think may be posted on the SIG website also. Nitrate is not fuel proof. It does adhere a little better than butyrate so the free flight guys like it for doing stick and tissue models. It does shrink, so if excessive shrinking needs to be avoided you need t plasticize it a bit, or just purchase non-tautening nitrate. Think of nitrate as sort of primer or base coating. Add some zinc stearate to it and it becomes a filler. Since it doesn't have the chemicals in it to make it fuel resistant, I believe it gases of a little faster and is another reason to use it for build ups. Butyrate sticks quite well and many people use it from start to finish simply to avoid getting confused on which can is which in their shop and have fewer cans f stuff cluttering up the shelves. Butyrate comes in tautening and non tautening also. All dope that is tautening dope keeps shrinking with time. That is why knowledgeable people use non-tautening dope on solid surfaces and in their colored dope after any open bay surfaces have been shrunk sufficiently with tautening dope. The rest of the finish is done with non-tautening dope. This has all been covered many times on the forum, along with the advice to stick with one type of material and not mix mediums to avoid compatibility problems. If you do mix types of materials you do so at your own risk. It's all been done before and is here on the forums. Saying that you can't find it means that you just haven't looked well enough.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Yep, Dan. Pretty much. I tend to use the Phil Granderson method, but the point is made.
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For the type of finishes I require, nitrate isn't needed.
Amazing.
Brett
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Brett,
LL~
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Yep, Dan. Pretty much. I tend to use the Phil Granderson method, but the point is made.
Hey Randy;
Just to brush up, is Phil's system published anywhere? My memory thinks it was in a model article for Model Aviation, the Diva maybe? Just asking cause I'm too busy today to search it out.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Brett,
LL~
You have the patience of a saint, or professional training therein.
Brett
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Phil's finishing system: http://flyinglines.org/ptg.finishing.html
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Thanks George!
Dan McEntee
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Can ply crylic be used over finishing resins ? Again I'm obliged
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Thanks, George. You beat me to it.
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I plan to use over/under hinges on the model as it will be powered by a Cox T D 049 o a Cox Medallion 049 engine, so my plan is to dope the hinges with nitrate dope, can I still use the Diamond Finish clear on the model, the apply some "rattle can " colors, again using Diamond coat clear? And guy's I sure am obliged for ALL of the help/suggestions... H^^ D>K
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Used Polycrylic once. Even though it was used on the bare wood and covering, after a few hundred flights the finish started peeling off on the front end.
Now on an electric plane it might work just fine.
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I'd read the PTG finishing system and he uses KBS diamond clear, I thought a bunch of guys had had a bad time using it, but that was for a clear coat over a finished model.
I guess it works if it's protected by a 2k clear?
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Are their any up dates on using polycrylic for your finishing methods? I am looking at these finishes for a new model.. ~^ #^
I started using Varathane Water-base Polycrylic instead of Minwax because it IS fairly fuel proof if allowed to fully cure(up to a week). It can be used anywhere you'd use Minwax for a more fuel proof finish. Carver-Tripp also makes(made, I haven't bought any lately- same goes for Varathane. A gallon goes a Loooonnnng way).
I've used a simple system which gets nice results. I'm sure if you are as fanatic as top twenty fliers are the same procedure would work here.
Prepare the finished build. Sand block sand thoroughly to start leveling the surface. For 3/32 in balsa you'be got 1/32in to work with. With 1/16th wood less than 1/32in. If you put 1/32 over foam it better be darn near perfect before sanding.
Put on a seal coat/filler of varnish with your filler of choice-talc, stearates, starch. They all work.
Apply a complete coat to all exterior surfaces(you can put a fancy finish inside the tank/electric chambers). Sand it all virtually all off. A touch of black in a white filler coat makes low spots show up better, but shallow lighting works too. Touch up the low places.
Apply the base covering. I use very light(100 guage or less) clear laminating film. It's much quicker and easier than dope.
Apply another coat of filler, just enough to cover to minimize sanding. Sand it thoroughly while not nicking into the covering. Touch up any remaining low spots and check using shallow lighting to highlight any dips in the finish, Fix them and resand them.
At this point choose an appropriate base coat color. A very thin, but fully covering coat of light gray works for almost any color as a base. White helps light colors such as white(duh), yellow, and red, etc. Black covers anything.
I've used spray can paints with good results, since I'm a flyer. It's not worth my time for a few extra appearance points since I'm flying to have fun and don't practice much.
Allow rattle can enamels a few days, up to a week, to get completely hard. You can fly when they are full dry to the touch but be very careful about spilling fuel or too much exhaust on the paint.
Any other effective color paint approach will work if it has worked over other base coats.
Cheers! Everybody will use their favorite method anyway.
A full, autobody paint scheme with a clear, thin top coat is the cat's meow.
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I started using Varathane Water-base Polycrylic instead of Minwax because it IS fairly fuel proof if allowed to fully cure(up to a week). It can be used anywhere you'd use Minwax for a more fuel proof finish. Carver-Tripp also makes(made, I haven't bought any lately- same goes for Varathane. A gallon goes a Loooonnnng way).
I've used a simple system which gets nice results. I'm sure if you are as fanatic as top twenty fliers are the same procedure would work here.
Prepare the finished build. Sand block sand thoroughly to start leveling the surface. For 3/32 in balsa you'be got 1/32in to work with. With 1/16th wood less than 1/32in. If you put 1/32 over foam it better be darn near perfect before sanding.
Put on a seal coat/filler of varnish with your filler of choice-talc, stearates, starch. They all work.
Apply a complete coat to all exterior surfaces(you can put a fancy finish inside the tank/electric chambers). Sand it all virtually all off. A touch of black in a white filler coat makes low spots show up better, but shallow lighting works too. Touch up the low places.
Apply the base covering. I use very light(100 guage or less) clear laminating film. It's much quicker and easier than dope.
Apply another coat of filler, just enough to cover to minimize sanding. Sand it thoroughly while not nicking into the covering. Touch up any remaining low spots and check using shallow lighting to highlight any dips in the finish, Fix them and resand them.
At this point choose an appropriate base coat color. A very thin, but fully covering coat of light gray works for almost any color as a base. White helps light colors such as white(duh), yellow, and red, etc. Black covers anything.
I've used spray can paints with good results, since I'm a flyer. It's not worth my time for a few extra appearance points since I'm flying to have fun and don't practice much.
Allow rattle can enamels a few days, up to a week, to get completely hard. You can fly when they are full dry to the touch but be very careful about spilling fuel or too much exhaust on the paint.
Any other effective color paint approach will work if it has worked over other base coats.
Cheers! Everybody will use their favorite method anyway.
A full, autobody paint scheme with a clear, thin top coat is the cat's meow.
Phil, I assume you're using the frosted laminating film? I did an oriental a few years back and after a decent crash all the paint that was on the film pretty much exploded off. That was the clear glossy stuff though
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Boy, am I glad I have a sure fire finishing system.
Seems like all these "variations" will continue to go on and on and on, probably long after we're all gone.
I don't think this is a good thing. ;D
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Phil, I assume you're using the frosted laminating film? I did an oriental a few years back and after a decent crash all the paint that was on the film pretty much exploded off. That was the clear glossy stuff though
Mine came off of it's own volition.
Ara
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Mine came off of it's own volition.
Ara
At least it's still in one peice though!
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Boy, am I glad I have a sure fire finishing system.
Seems like all these "variations" will continue to go on and on and on, probably long after we're all gone.
That you mindlessly copied from endless uncredited predecessors - who had to experiment just like these guys are doing. And note that these guys have to *fly* their airplanes, so the weight and durability matters, unlike you, who try to pawn them off on the unsuspecting on eBay, unflown.
A failed experiment is still far more worthy than throwing insults from the sidelines, which, as far as any of us can tell, is all you have ever accomplished.
You didn't even invent the "self-aggrandizing internet crank" persona. Although I have to give you full credit for executing it better than most (although you have a ways to go to match the true masters).
Brett
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That you mindlessly copied from endless uncredited predecessors - who had to experiment just like these guys are doing. And note that these guys have to *fly* their airplanes, so the weight and durability matters, unlike you, who try to pawn them off on the unsuspecting on eBay, unflown.
A failed experiment is still far more worthy than throwing insults from the sidelines, which, as far as any of us can tell, is all you have ever accomplished.
You didn't even invent the "self-aggrandizing internet crank" persona. Although I have to give you full credit for executing it better than most (although you have a ways to go to match the true masters).
Brett
Gee Brett, something bad happen to you today?
I finish front row quality in 4 days or less.
Take a hike.
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Gee Brett, something bad happen to you today?
I finish front row quality in 4 days or less.
Take a hike.
Prove it. The NATS are coming up in June this year. You have absolutely NO IDEA what a front row finish is.
See ya in Muncie??? That is the only way to back up your rhetoric.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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To the guy who always states how great HIS finishes are, how EVERYONE should paint their planes with what HE says they should use, I have to ask, "what is really wrong with you?". Do you really think you are that much better than everyone else? A few years ago you were telling me how I should be using only SIG brand dope, and not Randolph, and that I should listen to you, not the other people on this site, since they were out to "get you". Are you on some kind of medication? Please, this behavior has gotten old....
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To the guy who always states how great HIS finishes are, how EVERYONE should paint their planes with what HE says they should use, I have to ask, "what is really wrong with you?". Do you really think you are that much better than everyone else? A few years ago you were telling me how I should be using only SIG brand dope, and not Randolph, and that I should listen to you, not the other people on this site, since they were out to "get you". Are you on some kind of medication? Please, this behavior has gotten old....
Jerry,
That's a really "raunchy" reply. LL~ LL~ LL~
There's a life beyond models, it's called "family."
This is why I finish the way I do. Saves time. 4 days or less!! And my little interest in flying, isn't that my business? Liberals questioning my life. That's funny.
So, get a grip, front row quality, possibly, but second row for sure.
Authenticated and witnessed, by a humble modeler who actually saw my models, and reported by a statement said right here in this wonderful Forum. Read by many.
Others have seen my finished models also and I don't blame them for not coming forward. ;D
Some of you people are really pathetic. Grown men behaving like jealous preteens. School yard bullies.
Who's next backing up their buddies. The Congo line! LL~
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Trust me...I'm not jealous...nor a liberal...
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Jerry,
That's a really "raunchy" reply. LL~ LL~ LL~
There's a life beyond models, it's called "family."
This is why I finish the way I do. Saves time. 4 days or less!! And my little interest in flying, isn't that my business? Liberals questioning my life. That's funny.
So, get a grip, front row quality, possibly, but second row for sure.
Authenticated and witnessed, by a humble modeler who actually saw my models, and reported by a statement said right here in this wonderful Forum. Read by many.
Others have seen my finished models also and I don't blame them for not coming forward. ;D
Some of you people are really pathetic. Grown men behaving like jealous preteens. School yard bullies.
Who's next backing up their buddies. The Congo line! LL~
Well, like I said, there is only one way to prove it, and that is show up at Muncie and let some REAL NATS judges put your best hanger queen to the test. You can't rely on the guys that you bribe with free stickers and such to say how great your finishes are And you don't have to fly them, ;et some one else fly them if you are too afraid the paint is gonna flake off on the first engine run. Let some one else fly them for you . That is the ONLY Way to test the finish. Stunt models is ALL about FLYING the models when they are finished. That is one reason why it's called STUNT, and not POSING!!
And there you go making fun of people's names again! That should get you booted off the forum. That was one of the things that got you booted from Stuka Stunt. You are a disgrace!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee