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Well, I've thought a lot about finishing as I'm building the new weapon. Over the past 4 or 5 planes, I've tried all kinds of stuff. Some worked out and some either had adhesion problems or weight issues or whatever. Non-flyable in any case and one in particular that is so piggy that it's not worth messing with until it can be stripped and refinished.
So, with those disasters in mind, I have a couple of thoughts. First, I'm only going to use techniques that I've used before and that worked. I tend to use the auto toners mixed with dope for color. I'm getting new colors for this plane and, taking the advice of some painters I respect, I'm going to go heavy on the binder and light on the toners. Better to put on several light coats to bring the color up (and letting the solvent evap out) than one coat the covers well but is heavier and could develop adhesion problems (of which I've often fought with).
Second to cut down on the over-masking. While back masking is a pain in the backside, laying down just one layer of paint is a good thing. My last finish, largely due to getting cute with metallics and candy colors along with way, way, way too much clear on top for various reason, was clearly the heaviest finish I've ever laid on a plane. I mean, a 22 oz finish on a 640 square inch plane seems a little excessive. So, the goal on this one (616 squares) is a sub 8oz finish. That's where I'll be thinking.
Clear dope is lighter than just about any paint. Most of it is solvents that go away and even the Randolp's I use is only about 15% solids (12% if I use Certified). So, I'm opting for almost no filler coat (primer). I'll do most if not all the build up from paper with clear dope. It's just lighter than even zinc sterate let alone talc.
I have an idea for color that should prove lighter than the norm. We'll see. But it will be bright without a lot of toner in there. And the clear coat on top will still be catalyzed polyurethane, but it will be thin. If I can get the color surface underneath to be very smooth and without much in the way of blemish, then the topcoat should be pretty easy.
Getting a good looking but light finish is an art form without a doubt. We'll see if I've learned anything.
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Kudos Randy,
great logic,, now just stay the course!
so is the new bird about ready to start finishing?
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Mark,
No, it's not really close yet, but you have to start thinking of this stuff early, ya know. Right now the fuse box is done and I just started to set up the blocks to carve (I have an idea for a weird sort of cowling. Man, I've really go to stop the Balsa Sculpting stuff). And the wing is mostly done. Just have to finish up the controls and lay on the sheeting and cap strips. I've thought about the tail plane, but that's as far as it's gone and haven't even thought about the rudder yet.
Should have it mostly framed up by the end of next week, time permitting. Since I'm not going with wheelpants this time (I don't think, anyway), it should be ready to start slopping on the finish in a couple of weeks.
Cool looking plane so far.
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So, I'm opting for almost no filler coat (primer). I'll do most if not all the build up from paper with clear dope. It's just lighter than even zinc sterate let alone talc.
I thought the reason we added the fillers to clear dope for the substrate was because it was lighter ? ? ?
It does sand a lot easier with the fillers ...
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Allan,
In my opinion it's mostly convenience. The filler sands a lot easier and fills holes more quickly. Don't get me worng, filler isn't a bad thing. But my recent experience tells me that dope is ultimately lighter. I'll still use filler to hit any areas that need some fill (other than grain), but hopefully, there won't be much if any filler on it.
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. . . taking the advice of some painters I respect, I'm going to go heavy on the binder and light on the toners. Better to put on several light coats to bring the color up (and letting the solvent evap out) . . .
Do you have any numbers for heavy / light ratios of toner to dope? Grams of toner per ounce of dope? Or do you mix by volume? I assume the ratio varies by color?
Larry Fulwider
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Larry, in my experience as far as mixing by weight is to stay with grams. It is much more accurate than ounces. Got my triple beam scale back when I was trying to compete in F2C. Used it yesterday to weigh wing ribs for new planes. All that time spent learning or trying to learn the metric system and watch it fall through the floor. DOC Holliday
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Larry,
Generally, when I go to the paint store to have the guys mix up a color, they just mix it up in a pint can. Used to be, they would mix it as if they were making it for a car then leave out the clear (urethane) binder, but the last couple of times, they just mixed up the color in a full can (I still don't know how they calculate that - probably just a readout from the computer). So I have to determine how much toner and how much clear to put in. Often, I have used too much toner. So I will be more conservative this time and cut down on inevitable adhesion problems (along with additional weight).
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For the very lightest finish, let me suggest clear butyrate with dye powders mixed in. The effect can be very stunning. Analine dye powder will easily dissolve in butyrate thinner, and adds almost zero weight beyond that of clear dope.
The dye powders are available at a store catering to woodworking supplies.
Floyd
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Floyd,
The only problem with aniline dye is that it can fade in the sun. For color, when I want to get the dyed silkspan look, I use House of Kolor's Kandy Koncentrates. A bit of Red Apple candy in clear is awesome.
But I was mostly talking about building up the substrate for application of color.
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For color, when I want to get the dyed silkspan look, I use House of Kolor's Kandy Koncentrates. A bit of Red Apple candy in clear is awesome.
What about using a small amount of butyrate color to tint the butyrate clear for a dyed silkspan look ??
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I have been using nothing but clear dope with no fillers for years, ever since I read Detrichs (sp) article on the Cobra. His Cobra was a fair sized plane and total wt. from start to finish was 8 oz. My finishes do not look like his though, and I brush all of mine. I have been using silk from Dharma Trading, and I am very pleased with the wt. my planes finish at. It seems to hide grain well, and produces a smoother finish with less work.
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Allan
I suppose you could. I've never tried it. the ability to get a consistent color might be an issue.
Jim,
Yea, it's possible to build up with just clear, just takes a lot of coats. but is sure can look pretty. And it is lighter.
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Yea Randy; It does take lots of coats. I thin all of them at least 50%, and sometimes more. It is good therapy brushing dope as the cover firms up and it starts to develop a nice shine. The reason I brush on the color coats is because I am basically lazy, and do not like to mask the whole plane for just one trim color. I have a spray gun, a compressor, and three air brushes, and I will probably use them again some day. Oh! We all know people who play with model airplanes need therapy. HB~> LL~ n~ #^
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Hi Randy,
I know you are on the right track. The lightest finish I have done was on the I-beam Vulcan and all I used for filler was tinted Randolph's Non-tautening Nitrate on all the wood surfaces. Of course, I know you don't like Nitrate, but it is higher in solids than butyrate yet lighter than filler, builds up a *little* quicker.
Mongo
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Bill,
Well, unthinned Randolph's Butyrate builds pretty fast too (pretty much maple syrup consistency). If you thin it, it takes longer. ;D
Should have something to start finishing in a week or so. We'll see. I'm getting clever again with the leadout setup, so I may fall behind while I mess around with my new toy.
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Gentlemen, could any one suggest the procedure for mixing talc in dope, quanities, etc. thank you
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James,
When I've used filler coat, I just shovel talc into dope until I'm happy. Generally, in a given container, about 1/4 talc and 3/4 dope then thin it to spraying consistency.
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Well, I'm back from vacation and still sanding. I did come up with a paint scheme, though.
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well, I finally finished sanding the main airframe. Now the flaps, elevators and wheel skirts. Then I'm afraid I'm going to have to shoot some primer, but virtually all of that will be sanded off. Probably easier than hunting down every minor low spot and trying to spot those. Sigh... more sanding.
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Randy, remember its Zen and the art of sanding, its where you become one with the plane, develope that intimate relationship with the craft ,, H^^
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I HATE sanding until I start, then I drift off into LALA land and sand until my wrists are numb!
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Pretend Sanding's fun!!! That was a recommendation Windy made in one of his Crash Repairs column in Stunt News.
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This method certainly uses a lot more sanding, It's good for the soul. It builds character. Yea, that's it.
Edit
Well, after three hours in the saddle, my fingers and wrists ache and my back is killing me and I only got one elevator and one flap sanded. Oh, and the gear doors. Sanding open bays is so much fun. I got some major runs on the elevators (penalty of trying to get too much clear on in one coat - hey, it was late). So sanding those out is no party. It's slow, painstaking work. but it's all level now (at least one elevator). The flap was easy. Sadly, it's clearly going to need either another heavy coat of unthinned clear (with more brush strokes to sand out), 3 or 4 coats of spray on thinned clear or a coat of primer. I think I'll go with primer since it's one coat and virtually all of it will come off. And yes, I'll get to do more sanding. Man, my character should be well built by the time this is done.
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This method certainly uses a lot more sanding, It's good for the soul. It builds character. Yea, that's it.
Edit
Man, my character should be well built by the time this is done.
May the Lord of Stunt...between the earth and sky...where de' angels fly...be with you n' yers' RANDYMAN!
[/color]
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Uh, Thanks Donnie, I think.
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Uh, Thanks Donnie, I think.
Hey...Randy!!!
Your paint concepts are always sooooooo tasteee' n' amazing....just do what U do-do' so well!
If you GIVE UP...JUST GO FOR BLACK? LL~ H^^
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Well, I sanded the clear and made an executive decision. I went ahead and shot primer on it. I suspect that 99% of it will come off, but there were a lot of little spots that would have taken 3-4 coats of thinned clear to fill and it seemed that primer would be easier. Sigh...
Lots of sanding to go.
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Well Randy,
sanding is therapy for the soul,, or even for the sole as you stand there,, H^^
I am sure its worth it,,
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Mark,
Well, I got the fuse sanded today and one elevator (some testing of a repair of a sand through I did). Going pretty well. A coat of clear over the top to lock it down when I'm done and another round of sanding with 600 and I'll be ready for base color (I hope). Maybe by the end of the weekend..
Besides, sanding will be good therapy as I'm watching the Apple Cup. I love a good trouncing.
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<deleted>
Sorry, hit the wrong button. You were saying? <I didn't even know I could do that - Randy>
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Uh Mark, son't bother. That's what's called a Beatin" Man, you guys look bad. Sorry.
On a sunnier note, the plane is sanded and a coat of 75% clear shot on (two coats, actually). So, sand that an color can go on. Wheeeeee!
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Randy,, well ok so you deleted my post, lol,,
thats ok, I still have my dignity,, ( well since no one else can read my post now, I have dignity )
lol
well, when both of your quarterbacks get taken out, and your backup punter is playing quarterback, I guess its ok to get stomped,,
anyway, thats over now,
good news on the plane,, anxious to see pictures
* yes that was a deliberate change of subject,, *
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Mark,
Could have been worse. Did you see the USC/UCLA game. Ouch.
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And now, it's in base color. Not too bad, either.
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And now, it's in base color. Not too bad, either.
Now you got to show us Randy, if it isn't too bad and it is in base color y1
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Matt,
I'm taping off for the canopy right now. When that's on, I'll take pictures and post them. I just said base color because I couldn't really tell you what color it is. I mixed it myself using the Mark I Eyeball. It's sort of a pearl creamish white color with a slight redish tone. Sort of. Maybe I can come up with one of those names the car companies use in the color charts. Something like Crystal Champagne or Barbados Delight.
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Matt,
I'm taping off for the canopy right now. When that's on, I'll take pictures and post them. I just said base color because I couldn't really tell you what color it is. I mixed it myself using the Mark I Eyeball. It's sort of a pearl creamish white color with a slight redish tone. Sort of. Maybe I can come up with one of those names the car companies use in the color charts. Something like Crystal Champagne or Barbados Delight.
Crystal Champagne sounds like something a car company would use. I'm not as creative as that when coming up with the name of a color.
Edit: How about Chianti Red or pearl Chardonnay (correct spelling)?
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Randy,
heres a color name for you,,
" tantalizing Taupe"
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Matt,
Yea, that was the inference. The names of car colors crack me up.
Mark,
It's not that dark. I imagine in pictures, it just looks like sort of a very off white. But it's really sort of the color of my wife's car. Suzuki Pearl Sunburst. Sigh...
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Hummm?
How bout' INVISIBLE IN FLIGHT DEAD-DAGO-RED? LL~ VD~
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Grandpa mixed up this one paint color that he calls "silver-leaf green" He says the old cars had that name for a paint color. The color actually does match what the name says unlike "Spruce Mica" the color of our Camry which is actually black with a green metallic in it.
And Grandpa's silver-leaf green is going on the Cobra when I get to painting it.
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I'll post pics when I can get back to the plane. Work has been busy (understatement of the century) so no toy planes for a bit. Hopefully, things will cool down today and I can get to it tonight.
Oh, I did find an auto color that is a dead match for what I mixed up. Called Athabasca Pearl White. Used on mid 80s Alfa Romeros. Sort of a very subtly red tinted pearl white. Looks pretty dark white to me. Cool color. Be interesting to see what happens when I shoot on my planned trim colors.
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I got the canopy taped and painted last night (as I shivered. I love working in 37 degrees and 85% humidity). Came out OK. I tried something I've never done before. It's shaded from one color to the next. I shot on the base color then put in the second color and sort of shaded it around the perimeter inward. I didn't get it as even as I would have like (hard to hold the airbrush when your teeth are chattering), but overall, it looks pretty good. I left the mask on because I want to look again today to see if I want to go back with another shot with the second color. Thought I'd wait till it dried so I could spin the plane around to look at it.
I'll post the pics later after I make the decision on further messing with it and pull tape.
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I tried something I've never done before.
Randy, you should have a macro on your computer to write this sentence. It would be a real time saver.
We are itching to see pictures. Your planes are the coolest.
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Howard,
What, you have a camera over my desk. In this instance, it isn't some new, whiz-bang paint or something, just a painting technique I've seen done, but never tried. Next I'm going to try doing a sun-sparkle on the canopy. I've been practicing on a painted fuel can and am almost confident enough to try it. Maybe. ;D
But the plane has no Rhomboids .... yet. Might get trapezoids.
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A "sparkle" on the canopy sounds great.....(here is a photo copy from an old book of mine.
however this I am sure isn't any help...due to this artist used water base paints that are easily removable if your airbrush "sputs-n-spits" nerd-olddo's. (Wuzzies' way out to skin a canopy cat huh? LL~ n~ VD~
(Personally that info in that book has little info in painting stunt models canopies...these new exotic paint fomulas...Hummm?
RANDY! DON'T TRY THIS WITH YOUR NEW CANOPY....(personally this page in the n~ book sparkle looks waaaaaaaaaaaay too funny-funkie-junkie VD~
at least the artist has some amazing gift in jazzin' shiney chrome objects, huh?
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Shultzie,
I doubt I'll get the guts up to try it without a lot more practice on stuff that doesn't matter. I may give a try on the underside to see how it comes out. I'm really just learning how to do airbrushing. Maybe I'll bring it over and have you do it and watch. ;D
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Shultzie,
I doubt I'll get the guts up to try it without a lot more practice on stuff that doesn't matter. I may give a try on the underside to see how it comes out. I'm really just learning how to do airbrushing. Maybe I'll bring it over and have you do it and watch. ;D
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Like any art or music project...when the human facta'is-figgerd' in...
"ONE IS TRULY ONLY AS GOOD AS THEIR LAST GIG!"
~^ ~^ ~^ H^^
here is an interesting link: if it flies???? www.innate.com/Paint/DIY/hyberflare.htm
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Well, here's a picture. unfortunately, I'm going to have to go back and reshoot part of it. Should have shot clear over the whole thing before putting masking tape down on it. I pulled up some of the black on one side so I'll have to remask and reshoot that area. Sigh.... Not a big deal but frustrating.
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RANDY..
SPEEEEEEEEEEEECHLESS IN GIG HAAAAAABA! That is truly a BEEEUUUTEEEFUL' PIECE OF CLPA ART AT ITS FINEST!!!!! BW@ BW@ BW@ BW@ H^^ H^^
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You want gifted airbrush metal artists, ONE WORD,
Sorayama
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Boy Randy,
That canopy color is fantastic as well as the whole plane, it really looks GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hello Randy,
Now you're "talking"! Your previous explanations were quite eloquent, but an image is worth a thousand words. That base color looks immaculate as it could be and the canopy colors and shadowing are just GORGEOUS.
And to think this is just the tip of the iceberg!
Question: what kind of masking tape do you use? The vinyl kind with low tack adhesive or any other?
Needless to say that you MUST keep those photos coming!
Cheers!
Claudio.
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Claudio,
It was just supposedly low tack, cream colored masking tape. I'm switching out to low tack, blue "painter's" tape from here on out just to be sure. but I'll also shoot some clear on it today just to service my innate paranoia.
I'm off to the shop to fix my boo-boo and tape off the next color. That should be interesting.
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I'm off to the shop to fix my boo-boo and tape off the next color. That should be interesting.
What is the next color?
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"She" gives a whole new meaning to "hard body" LL~ LL~ LL~ What a cold b**&&^H
Great "METAL CHROME SHARK" and you are sooooooo right about Hajime's fab-uuu-lous' airbrush technique and expertise. Love his books...Our art director at Boeing had a couple of his books.
First time I saw how he handled chrome...I was totally BLOWN AWAY!
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Well, I got the canopy all fixed up. Looks OK. Unfortunately, there's a little boo-boo I found. It's a little bubble. Not much and I probably could have left it alone, but decided to fix it. So I cut the area, CAed it down and cleaned it up. Left it with some filler. I'll sand the area tomorrow and prime then shoot a bit of white to patch it up. Wasn't a big deal, but it bugged me. So I haven't started on the next color yet.
Matt,
The answer is, it depends. I haven't decided to shoot the main trim color on next (charcoal steel) or one of the secondary colors. It' just a matter of process. I have to decide how much and where the main trim color is going on the fuse.
Then again, I may change my mind entirely and go with something else.
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Hummm?
Could that small nerd spot...be the perfect a place for a small chrome like canopy name plate like ornament...thingee or a small "quip" etc? :!
Never mind my demented mind. works in very unusual cycles.
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Donnie,
It's in the wrong spot. The fix on the bubble (lifting) is pretty small and should be fixed in the next couple of days, then I can get back to figuring out what I'm going to do.
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Donnie,
It's in the wrong spot. The fix on the bubble (lifting) is pretty small and should be fixed in the next couple of days, then I can get back to figuring out what I'm going to do.
Here is a shot of one of the largest canopies that I had ever had the pain n' pleasure to create on demand for one or our Wind Tunnel flutter model "wet"wing.
I used (heated) K&B Superpoxy...thinned waaaaaaaaay down almost like a water consistency and lots of air through my old DeVilbusted' touch up gun.
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No progress on the plane. It's too cold out there. Still need to fix a couple of small things anyway.
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No progress on the plane. It's too cold out there. Still need to fix a couple of small things anyway.
TOO COLD OUT THERE IS N' UNDA'STATEMENT!!! BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
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No progress on the plane. It's too cold out there. Still need to fix a couple of small things anyway.
No heated garage or shop??? If not, I feel for ya even though today it was above freezing some of the day, a lot of the snow melted, and then a couple tenths came back with a large flurry
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lol,, we have had single digit temps,, My workshop is staying pretty warm considering its in the living room,, y1
of course with a two year old in the house, getting much done is pretty tough, she wants to do the same things as Poppa,, mostly when I am not around,, so cant let her see me do anything dangerous! lol
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Oh, I have heat, but it's a kerosene heater and it takes too long to heat up for any work on the weekdays. Takes about 3 hours to make it tolerable. I was hoping to get a new heater for it with my tax return next year, but not sure that will happen now. We'll have to see.
In the meantime, the weatherliars say that the temps will come up starting tomorrow and by the end of next week we will be our more normal 45 degrees and raining. Never thought I'd look forward to cloud cover and the rain.
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Hi Randy,
Can you please post the picture of your avatar image, if you have it handy?
Thanks!
Claudio.
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Hi Randy,
Can you please post the picture of your avatar image, if you have it handy?
Thanks!
Claudio.
OK! THERE GOES THE NAME FOR MY NEW STUNTER...(still behind my demented brain and dimmin' eye balls!) VD~ :!
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Don, I am delighted to see that you are building a new stunt plane, and I agree that Claudio would be a good name for it.
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Or did you mean Randy? In the British sense, of course.
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Tey, I like the name Avatar.
I lost all the pictures on my hard drive a couple of months ago, so I don't have the full sized picture anymore. sigh...
Sorry about that Claudio.
At least I can get back to painting the plane tomorrow.
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Tey, I like the name Avatar.
I lost all the pictures on my hard drive a couple of months ago, so I don't have the full sized picture anymore. sigh...
Sorry about that Claudio.
At least I can get back to painting the plane tomorrow.
NAME IT AND CLAIM IT RANDLE....HE WHO JUMPS ON THAT NAME FIRST WINS!!!
Speaking of what's in a name check out the name on this one? Seems I have heard that one some where before? LL~
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It's OK Randy, thanks anyway.
It is always a good idea to make a backup of the hard drive, which -of course- I don't do ;D n~
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Shultzie,, the OTHER Avenger is far sexier airplane, right?
Randy,, Randy Randy,, tsk tsk,, external drives are pretty cheap these days,,
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Mark,
I backed everything up to DVD. All the disks worked fine when I restored ... except the one with the plane pictures on it. Sigh...
Well, I finally finished fixing the little bubble in a fillet. Man, that was a much bigger pain than I thought is was going to be, but at least it's done and the paint is on and once dry, I'm ready to move on ... to whatever the heck it is I'm going to do. I've about second-thoughted myself to death.
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Had a bad spot on the cowl and had to sand it and repaint the base color on it. Not a big deal and it's done. Started taping off the trim colors finally. Hope to finish taping by the weekend.
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Had a bas spot on the cowl and had to sand it and repaint the base color on it. Not a big deal and it's done. Started taping off the trim colors finally. Hope to finish taping by the weekend.
Finish taping by the weekend?!? Boy, that should be some trim scheme to take that long masking, can't wait to see it!!! H^^
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Matt,
dont you remember, Randy said its going to be ultra simple this time S?P
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Matt,
dont you remember, Randy said its going to be ultra simple this time S?P
Yeah, that's right Mark. So I'm guessing a "complicated" paint scheme for Randy must take him a couple weeks to mask off. :## But then again, with Randy's painting and masking skills, his "simple" paint scheme is a complicated one for the average guy. After all, how easy will it be for Randy to mask this scheme off. With this one, I keep saying I'm going to regret it, but I'm going to try and it'll look good when it's done
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at the risk of hijacking Randy's thread,
( like I havent ever done that before)
the secret is in the sequence of how you mask and paint it. some times if you put the colors down in a certain order, it will GREATLY simplify the masking
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at the risk of hijacking Randy's thread,
( like I havent ever done that before)
the secret is in the sequence of how you mask and paint it. some times if you put the colors down in a certain order, it will GREATLY simplify the masking
I think the red and blue will be easy to mask, it's just doing the checkerboards that I've never done before, and I've heard it can be a real PAIN to mask. But I have been thinking up a strategy for masking it out, we'll see how it turns out.
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Mark,
The trick is not to have colors that abut each other or to shoot color, then mask, then shoot, then mask sort of thing. This one will have base color dividers, so I can effective put down all the mask first, then shoot trim colors while just covering up areas for other trim colors.
I will admit that after a lot of staring at the plane in base color, I am getting a little trick with the trim. I always wanted to try fading in a checkerboad scheme. Having one color fade to the next using checkerboard as the transition. So I'm going to try that on a limited basis on this plane. Should be pretty cool.
I'm going to eat some lunch then get out to the shop to continue taping.
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Randy,
good luck with the fade, if you want to chat about particulars and techniques, give me a ring.
Matt, checkerboards arent that hard, mostly time consuming.
Of course with my little vinyl cutter, I can cut the mask for the checkerboards and it takes about, oh, ten minutes to mask them LL~
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The checkerboard mask is on the fuse. In fact, I got the whole fuse masked today. I'll start on the wings tomorrow. I made a stencil but it's a bit more complicated than I had originally planed. Like a lot of planes, as you get going, ideas occur to you and you think, hey, that would look cool. Then it's break out more tape and get to work. As I said before, I hope to have it all taped and masked by the weekend.
Mark,
I used some sheet vinyl stuff I had to do the checkerboard mask. Came out pretty well, too.
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OK, here's something I don't normally do. Post pictures of the paint scheme in progress. First pic is all masked and ready for first color. Second is with color and partially unmasked, though ready for masking off the next color. You can get a sense of the paint scheme for this. I actually used two different (or at least they were supposed to be different) colors on the fuse, but as it turns out, they were too close together to really get what I was looking for (a fade from one color to the next. Oh well, I'll live.
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So we have base color white(ish) with charcoal grey? The scallops are very cool. It looks like it might be hard to see against the trees, with an afternoon sun at Salem airport. I'm sure you'll come up with something cool, tho. Check for bats before painting! :P Steve
Edit: Claudio....This is another of Randy's avatars. I wasn't sure if it was the same one, but knew I'd asked him to email it in a larger version. Musta been one of Randy's longer winged designs?
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Steve,
That's a somewhat modified Windy LJ. It was my first catalysed polyurethane topcoat and came out pretty heavy (never tried it before). But it was a big plane.
The colors on the new plane so far are the white(ish) color and GM Blue Steel. Oh, and a sort of medium charcoal metallic. The next colors will be brighter. This is just the background, so to speak.
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Wow!!!!!! What are the next colors?
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Matt,
Well with the current colors (basically trick gray and trick white), the next colors need to be loud. The ones I've mixed up are screaming. We'll see how it comes out. I'm off to the shop to shoot the next color.
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Matt,
Well with the current colors (basically trick gray and trick white), the next colors need to be loud. The ones I've mixed up are screaming. We'll see how it comes out. I'm off to the shop to shoot the next color.
MAY THE MIND OF OUR RANDY-DANDY-RANDLE-DANDLE...BE FILLED WITH ARTISTICAL'CREATIVE PASSION AND EXCELLENCE FLOOOOOOOOOW LIKE A RIVA' IN THE PAINT BOOTH TONIGHT AND MAY THE LORD'S HEDGE OF PROTECTION...SHINE UPON YOU!!!!
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especially from bats and bugs! <= H^^
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especially from bats and bugs! <= H^^
AMEN MARK! How could I have forgotten the BATS N' BUGS!
That reminds me of an old cartoon drawing that I saw in a Model magazine from the early 60's that showed a model geek painting a model outside under a window...with his wife or mother shaking out a dust mop out the window with all the nerds and dust bunnies floating down from the dust mop and onto his model painting project below.
(Something like that happened to me years ago in my upper NW Flanders one room apt. while I was painting my old Nobler down in the coal fired boiler room in the basement. The automatic coal dumper went off just as I was spraying the Aerogloss clear topcoat. LL~ VD~ %^ j1
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OUCH,
yeah thats not ever a good thing.
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Gee thanks guys. I think. got the second color on as I said. Hopefully, tomorrow the next will go on then I can strip off all that masking. Yikes!
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OK, third color is on. Masking this was a lot easier since most of it was already done. I'll pull tape tomorrow to see what kinda of touch up it might need.
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OK, I pulled tape today. Pretty simple scheme to do. No back masking, but kinda weird. Tape everything then alternately cover areas you don't want painted and shoot colors. It came out OK overall. Needs a bit of retouching. Always a decision using low stick tape and taking the chance of leaking (which I got a little of, but not enough to worry about) or using higher stick mask and taking the chance that it will pull up colors underneath or disfigure the colors it's stuck to (also some problem with but again, not enough to worry about).
If I ever say I'm going to use candy anything again, just shoot me. The stuff doesn't have adhesion worth spit even with a coat of heavily thinned clear underneath. I lucked out that it didn't have more problems than it did. Nothing a bit of ink outline won't fix. but what a pain.
By the way, the stuff I used for mask on the checkerboard worked out really well. I'm going to use that again. I got it from Office Depot. It's vinyl print "paper". Sweet stuff.
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SWEET! I thought it was pearls that you weren't going to use ever again? ~~> Steve
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Steve,
I suspect that's the problem. That candy blue and red have a lot of pearl in them. Just adhesion issues. Nothing remarkable or anything that will cause problems, just some corners that were not attached as tightly as I would have liked. Nothing a bit of ink and some clear over the top won't fix.
On a side note, I pulled the mount out of the nose and weighed the plane and all the pieces. Nearly as I can figure, I've added about 5oz from wood to this point. The base color is a bit thinner than I'd like, but it looks OK and if I can go easy on the topcoat, I may get away with a 6.5 to 7oz finish. That will put the overall plane weight in the 55-57oz range. Maybe an ounce lighter than the Ring Deluxe (of which this is largely the same plane).
I'll keep my think good thoughts and keep my finger off the trigger with the clear.
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Gorgeous Randy! Love it!
That wavy checkerboard gives a very sporty and elegant touch at the same time, I like it A LOT <=
Can't wait to see the ship RTF...
Keep us posted!
Cheers,
Claudio.
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Nice clean design and trim. Cudos Randy.
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That looks fantastic. Great job!
I especially like how the colors and layout on the stab are the inverse of what's on the wing.
-Mike
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Absolutely INCREDIBLE Randy!!!! I totally love the checkerboard on the rudder, makes it look aggressive yet still still has an elegant touch to it.
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hmmm thought I had posted a reply on here last night, how very strange,,
anyway, Randy, I like it, it is in fact simple, your masking methodology worked out well and I bet it really sped up the masking process for you. It should look pretty spiffy all cleared up, and weight sure doesnt sound like an issue.
Hope the Avenger works out as well for me,,
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WOW, excellent work Randy!! that is a very cool color combo, especialy the moving/wavy checker board!! #^
After having watched your finishs for some time it inspires me to build another plane just to try some of those elements in your paint schemes for myself! #^ H^^
James Dean
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Thanks Guys.
>>I especially like how the colors and layout on the stab are the inverse of what's on the wing.<<
Mike,
Yea, if I would have expended a bit more effort, I would have moved the whole scheme onto the elevators, sweeping it up onto the stab, but I didn't want to mess with matching setup exactly. Probably just laziness on my part, but this should work out OK. I plan to test mount the elevators and I'll see what I have. may have to add something, but I think it will be OK.
BTW, that wavy checkerboard is really easy to do. I used some vinyl adhesive material from Office Depot and it is very easy to work with. I took some paper and traced out the outline using the rudder and bottom block shapes. then drew out the checkerboard I wanted. Transferred that onto the vinyl and cut it out with a No. 11 scalpel (they are a lot sharper than hobby blades. A lot). Then I laid down vinyl tape for the outline (Finesse Pinstripping tape) and stuck on the vinyl paper cutouts for the checkerboad. Shot a thin coat of clear over it to seal then shot the colors. Pretty easy, really. Better than doing it all in pinstripe tape, that's certain.
What you can't really see in the pictures but I hope shows up in the sun is, the checkerboard goes from a GM color called Blue Steel to a medium charcoal metallic to a silver metallic in a fade. It's pretty subtle. Maybe too subtle. Has the same thing out on the wing tips. I had intended to continue the theme (fade checkerboard) on that dark color on the wing as it went out to the wing tip, but decided that I didn't want to get the thing too busy, so I just used the fade out there. Oh well, I learned something in the process. If you're going to do a fade, use colors that are more dissimilar. I think these were a bit too close and it may be that it is subtle to the point of invisible. Sigh... Nice idea, anyway.
I'm debating on outlining the blue and red in black (or possibly use a dark red and dark blue for the outline). We'll see.
Mark,
This is the first paint scheme I've done in awhile where the colors don't butt up against each other. This allowed me to tape the scheme all at once. Usually, when I do stuff that has colors bordering each other, you are stuck with taping and masking, pulling tape, re-taping and masking, pulling tape, etc. and it takes forever. this is a bit easier. In the future I may try laying down paint color, taping and masking, laying down color and taping and masking over the top sort of process. Man, I have watched way too much Overhaulin'
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I thought about inklines, but now I'm really thinking I'll just leave it be and shoot clear. The name and number are on and I think that may be about it. Simple, clean and relatively light.
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I thought about inklines, but now I'm really thinking I'll just leave it be and shoot clear. The name and number are on and I think that may be about it. Simple, clean and relatively light.
What's the name?
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I hope the name isn't "Overhaulin'", 'cause that's taken. Still, I just can't imagine Randy using "Slider" for a second go-around. Let's hope that Randy can keep the clear coat thin. Maybe just pull the trigger every third pass across the plane? :! Steve
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I'll shoot a picture when it done (which should be soon).
And Steve, Slider is in the name.
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Well, I had a setback on this plane. What I get for shooting lacquer in the cold, I guess. Too much thinner in the clear over the decals and they crinkled up. So I'm going have to peel them off, sand the area and reshoot base color. Sigh.... Not a bit deal, but frustrating.
I did find out that there is a new sign company in town here and the guy can do vinyl masks. He's pricing me some masks to redo this right now. If he's not too steep, I'll just do that. Looks better anyway.
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Well, I had a setback on this plane. What I get for shooting lacquer in the cold, I guess. Too much thinner in the clear over the decals and they crinkled up. So I'm going have to peel them off, sand the area and reshoot base color. Sigh.... Not a bit deal, but frustrating.
I did find out that there is a new sign company in town here and the guy can do vinyl masks. He's pricing me some masks to redo this right now. If he's not too steep, I'll just do that. Looks better anyway.
Hi Randy,
Just to make you feel better, let me tell you a little story about something that happened to me yesterday:
The wing of my plane was already painted, with trim colors, lettering an all. The masking stuff was removed -except for the lettering vinyl masks- and everything came out just perfect. No paint bleeding, no touch up needed. Really neat!
Next I began to remove the vinyl masks from the lettering and noticed -to my despair- that all of the vinyl adhesive got TRANSFERED to the wing. An absolute and complete DISASTER!!! My blood pressure went down to ZERO for quite a while...
I found NO WAY whatsoever to get rid of that NASTY adhesive.
To make a long story short: I'm RECOVERING the wing on those areas again in this very moment! Which means...doping again...re-shooting base color again...etc.
Frustrating? YOU BET! A major mishap for me.
I must tell you that I always use the same vinyl brand -the lettering on my Voodoo and other planes were done this way- but OBVIOUSLY they DECIDED to change the adhesive this time!
If you plan to use vinyl masks PLEASE be sure to do some tests BEFORE putting them on the plane.
Back to the shop now... SH^
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Claudio,
I can relate.
Perhaps instead of vinyl, you may try Gerber mask, or my favorite, MacTac. It is formulated for using as a mask material, it is thinner, so less ridge left over, and it releases much easier than vinyl does.
Randy,
what can I say, painted lettering is cooler anyway right?
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Claudio,
Really sorry to hear that. I know I had some trouble getting adhesive off before without taking the paint off, too. Can be pretty frustrating. Hey, everything has it's drawbacks, I guess.
Mark,
The stuff they guy looks sort of like a more flexible version of Frisket or a thin vinyl of some type. According to the sign guy, the stuff releases easily with a bit of heat. He suggested a hair dryer, though I have a heat gun I can use at low temp. He's cutting the masks right now (and pretty reasonable, too). We'll see what happens.
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Claudio,
I can relate.
Perhaps instead of vinyl, you may try Gerber mask, or my favorite, MacTac. It is formulated for using as a mask material, it is thinner, so less ridge left over, and it releases much easier than vinyl does.
Randy,
what can I say, painted lettering is cooler anyway right?
Mark,
I googled Gerber's products and reading the product bulletin, it seems that is very similar to the Frisket Stencil Paper from Badger -which I've used some years ago- but this stuff curls when applying the first coat of paint, due to the thinner action.
According to the Gerber's technical sheet, this product can't be used with lacquer based paints (for the same reason I guess, It doesn't tolerate thinner).
Let me quote:
APPLICATION TECHNIQUES
1.
Cut the GerberMask then weed as a stencil.
2.
Transfer the stencil onto the sign surface using low tack application tape.
3.
Apply the paint within the stencil by hand, airbrush or spray paint. Not for use with lacquer based paints.
4.
Remove the mask when the paint is just dry to the touch. Leaving the mask on longer than necessary could make it difficult to remove.
Have you experienced any curling of the mask using dope or lacquer?
Thanks,
Claudio.
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Randy,
What kind of vinyl do you use for the masks? Brand/type/part number?
Thank you,
Claudio.
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I have not experienced any of those issues
HOWEVER I am fairly conservative in my application of material, lots of dry time, only enough material to insure bonding is applied each coat.
There are , I beleive a couple formulations of Gerber mask, and I know there is for Badger Frisket paper too.
I have sprayed laquer through the Mac Tac and not had problems keeping in mind my application techniques.
Here is where I get mine, if that helps
http://www.hhsignsupply.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=20448&idcategory=365
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Claudio,
For the stencils I cut myself (such as the checkerboard on this plane), I use a vinyl stenciling product sold by Office Depot. I'll have to look up the name and part number. It's out in the shop. But it doesn't seem to be bothered by lacquer.
I don't know the brand that the sign guy is using to cut the stencils. I'll ask when I pick them up tomorrow.
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I have not experienced any of those issues
HOWEVER I am fairly conservative in my application of material, lots of dry time, only enough material to insure bonding is applied each coat.
There are , I beleive a couple formulations of Gerber mask, and I know there is for Badger Frisket paper too.
I have sprayed laquer through the Mac Tac and not had problems keeping in mind my application techniques.
Here is where I get mine, if that helps
http://www.hhsignsupply.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=20448&idcategory=365
OK Mark, thanks.
We'll see what can I get here.
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Claudio,
For the stencils I cut myself (such as the checkerboard on this plane), I use a vinyl stenciling product sold by Office Depot. I'll have to look up the name and part number. It's out in the shop. But it doesn't seem to be bothered by lacquer.
I don't know the brand that the sign guy is using to cut the stencils. I'll ask when I pick them up tomorrow.
Thanks Randy.
Please pass me that info when you can.
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OK, Claudio, I went out an looked.
Avery Clear Full Sheet Labels for Inkjet Printers
#8665
This was one of those accidental discoveries. I had these in the drawer and was looking for something to use a a mask. I did a test and the stuff seemed to hold up fine under lacquer and peeled off pretty easily. I did shoot some clear on to seal the edges, but that was probably overkill.
Hope to pick up the vinyl masks tomorrow.
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Thank you Randy.
I think I can get that product here, maybe not the same brand, but something similar.
Good tip!
Thanks again,
Claudio.
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Well, we ran into a problem. The sign guy's plotter won't do the rather intricate font I choose for part of the mask. Too small, I guess. Anyway, he referred me to another outfit in Bremerton that he thinks can do the job. I won't be able to find out till Monday. Sigh...
That's OK, I can do other stuff until then.
Edit
Well, spent the day peeling decals, sanding the area flat again and reshooting paint on the area. Also was able to tape off and shoot some touch up. Still no vinyl cutter in the area, but I did find a place that looks like they can do it. We'll see. If not, it's back to decals.
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Just a note. I shot clear today. Someone please remind me next time to never paint a plane in the middle of winter. Trying to shoot catalysed polyurethane at 51 degrees and 84% humidity is a pain. Didn't come out too bad overall, but I can see a lot of sanding in my future. It's got some serious orange peel. But there's enough clear on to allow me to level it. But still a pain.
Totally experimental finish in that it is easily the lightest finish I've ever done. Looks to come out in the 6oz range. But, like Sparky's last plane, the base color is pretty thin.
When I get it rubbed and assembled, I'll post a picture.
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so did you end up going back to decals Randy?
FWIW, my little desktop plotter can cut some pretty fine detail.
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Mark,
Yea, I wienied out and used decals. But they came out pretty good. Just a lot of orange peel. I was afraid to put any more reducer in for fear of a bad reaction. I used a 2 to 1 clear and used 1 part reducer as it was (2-1-1). I was afraid any more than that and I'd have problems.
The moral of the story is don't do finishes in January.
Edit
Went down today and picked up some sandpaper (Wet or Dry 800, 1000 and some 2000) to start sanding (perhaps this evening). Also picked up some rubbing compound, finish compound and finish glaze/swirl remover (was just about out). Now the fun starts. It's a lot easier to do before the plane is assembled.
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Mark,
Yea, I wienied out and used decals. But they came out pretty good. Just a lot of orange peel. I was afraid to put any more reducer in for fear of a bad reaction. I used a 2 to 1 clear and used 1 part reducer as it was (2-1-1). I was afraid any more than that and I'd have problems.
The moral of the story is don't do finishes in January.
Edit
Went down today and picked up some sandpaper (Wet or Dry 800, 1000 and some 2000) to start sanding (perhaps this evening). Also picked up some rubbing compound, finish compound and finish glaze/swirl remover (was just about out). Now the fun starts. It's a lot easier to do before the plane is assembled.
Is there any real advantage to starting out with a coarser grit sandpaper and progressively getting to finer grits of sandpaper instead of buffing out with, say, 1200 grit?
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My two cents worth,
on urethane clear, its a generally bad idea to sand with anything courser than 1200 IMHO, UNLESS you have huge amounts of orange peal or edges to deal with. It takes so so long to sand out the 800 scratches. I try to use the finest paper I can on clear. I also find that when you sand with course paper, it kind of changes the "structure" of the clear, it never seems to polish as easy. I do use 800 to remove runs, big dirt chunks or whatever like that. but only locally.
One other not about sanding, except on clear,, ( although it does apply to some extent) the coarser your paper, the straighter and flatter the surface will be. If you sand with to fine of paper, it just follows the contours and wont cut it flat. Thats why if you have major orange peal or surface texture, then 1200 or in extreme cases, lightly with 800, to cut the tops of the texture, or flaw.
when I cut and polish a car that hasnt any major issues, I will start with 1500 and go to 200o before polishing
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I'm with you Mark, using coarser grades on clear adds work and degrades quality. 1500 is the coarsest I'll use on clear but if I did my prep and shoot right, I go directly to 2000.
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I also agree. As I noted, it's a bad idea to shoot clear when the temp is riding near 50° and the humidity is high. I got some wicked orange peel. Even at that, I'm only using the 800 for really bad spots (and, of course, already sanded through on one spot necessitating a reshoot of the cowl - sigh ...) . Most of it is being done with 1500 or 2000 depending on what the area looks like. Then the areas that got 1500 are getting 2000. But so far, it's coming out OK. No show piece, but serviceable.
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Well, heck, I managed to sand though in several spots on the cowl (the rest of the fuse is coming out OK). So I'm having to backtrack and repaint the cowl (grumble ....). I tried just leveling out and reshooting base color on the sand through spots, but of course, the topcoat reacted with the color, so it may be that I will have to sand it all down into the color (or substrate) and completely repaint. Not a big deal, but a pain none the less. We'll see tonight.
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"No show piece, but serviceable."
Sure, yeah right, we believe that don't we guys?
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Hey Randy,
to quote a recent post on some "other" thread,,,
are we having fun yet!
I have every confidence, that once completed, it will be in fact servicable, now will it fly well,,
Oh by the way, my employment situation is now going to allow me to have more building and finishing time as well,,
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Randy,
Serviceable is the word. Will look pretty good from 5 feet. It's a pretty uncomplicated scheme and the execution is probably in the not bad to good range. But not excellent. It has the benefit of being light, so that's something. I am promising myself that I will never try to finish a plane in the winter again. That's certain. If I build it in the winter, it goes in the rack to await spring for painting. Unless it's all done with iron on.
Mark,
It should be a good flyer if straight (and it certainly appears to be). A bit heavier than I'd like (aren't they all?) but not at all bad. Certainly in the ballpark (about 55oz on 590 square inches - 2 oz or so lighter than the Ringmaster Deluxe and it's essentially the same plane).
>>Oh by the way, my employment situation is now going to allow me to have more building and finishing time as well<<
Is this because the hours changed, reduced or because you don't have any anymore?
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Pretty much, I shuffle papers, and put out fires at work, there is not much work, so not many fires to put out or questions to resolve. I have been cut back to about half time. still, better than no time,, but it remains to be seen how the whole unemplyment and half work time sorts out,, will find that out next week probably,
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Mark,
Well, I've had a week at my new job. It's OK, but I'm likely to go crazy as it's not very complicated (though others there complain about the work load). The pay is not bad though the hours are longer. Sigh.... I really need to hit the lotto.
More work on the plane. The cowl is repainted and not horrible, but some other problems have come up. Minor, but the paint is so thin, it's not easy to fix. I suspect I'll just move on and finish it up. It will likely be a good flyer, though it will never be a beauty queen. But hey, I've had beauty queens that didn't fly worth spit. I'll take the good flyer that is not as pretty.
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Dude, I never heard you took a job? thought you were still building models all day long,, sheesh,,
looking forward to seeing the new plane as always,,
I may actually have time to finish the Avenger, AND the long ignored bf 109 before the REgionals,,
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Mark,
Yep, started on the 11th. It's 8am to 5:30, so I get a bit more sleep than I did (working 7am to 4pm), but I get to stay up to watch the news. It's OK and it's nice to have a job where I only have to worry about me and my work and not supervise anything or anyone. I can concentrate on models more that way.
I was gone all day shopping with the spouse today (jewelry store, IKEA and the video store - woohoo, I got a new TV finally), so no work on the beast. But I'll be back at it tomorrow and I'm off for MLK day so I get Monday to work on it, too.
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Update. I ran into some minor problems. Since the paint is pretty thin and I had problems with pretty severe orange peel (I will never shoot catalyzed polyurethane in the cold again), I ended up with several spots where I rubbed through the base color. I was debating on fixing them or just saying to heck with it and putting the thing together, but after some consideration, I decided that they would bug me too much. So, I will go back and reshoot those areas and blend in some clear over the top and re-sand and rub. Sigh...
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Uh...Randy...c'mon, let's see it! VD~ Steve
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steve,
I'm just rubbing it out (about half done). Not a beauty queen (I hate rub through spots and I have a couple), but then, I'd rather have a good flying plane and this one should be. I couldn't stand it so I weighed everything to get an idea of final all up weight. This is certainly the lightest finish I've ever done. All up weight is 53 oz. (based on weighing all the parts, drive train, nuts and bolts and such). That means this finish is under 6oz. Beats the last plane where the finish was almost more than the airframe.
Hope to have it done in the next couple of days and I'll post pictures.
Edit
I should note that when I shot the topcoat, it was way too cold so I get quite a lot of orange peel. I could get rid of some of it in the buffing process, but I laid it on pretty thinly and so, I can get rid of it all. This is why I ended up rubbing through in some spots. I decided it was better with some orange peel than with a lot of rub through spots.