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Author Topic: Painting a new plane  (Read 8288 times)

Offline Mike Ferguson

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #100 on: December 23, 2009, 09:39:25 AM »
That looks fantastic.  Great job!

I especially like how the colors and layout on the stab are the inverse of what's on the wing.

-Mike

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #101 on: December 23, 2009, 09:47:26 AM »
Absolutely INCREDIBLE Randy!!!!  I totally love the checkerboard on the rudder, makes it look aggressive yet still still has an elegant touch to it.

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #102 on: December 23, 2009, 09:59:28 AM »
hmmm thought I had posted a reply on here last night, how very strange,,

anyway, Randy, I like it, it is in fact simple, your masking methodology worked out well and I bet it really sped up the masking process for you. It should look pretty spiffy all cleared up, and weight sure doesnt sound like an issue.
Hope the Avenger works out as well for me,,
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Offline james dean

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #103 on: December 23, 2009, 10:30:21 AM »
WOW, excellent work Randy!! that is a very cool color combo, especialy the moving/wavy checker board!! #^ 

After having watched your finishs for some time it inspires me to build another plane just to try some of those elements in your paint schemes for myself! #^ H^^



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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #104 on: December 23, 2009, 12:29:11 PM »
Thanks Guys.

>>I especially like how the colors and layout on the stab are the inverse of what's on the wing.<<

Mike,

Yea, if I would have expended a bit more effort, I would have moved the whole scheme onto the elevators, sweeping it up onto the stab, but I didn't want to mess with matching setup exactly. Probably just laziness on my part, but this should work out OK. I plan to test mount the elevators and I'll see what I have. may have to add something, but I think it will be OK.

BTW, that wavy checkerboard is really easy to do. I used some vinyl adhesive material from Office Depot and it is very easy to work with. I took some paper and traced out the outline using the rudder and bottom block shapes. then drew out the checkerboard I wanted. Transferred that onto the vinyl and cut it out with a No. 11 scalpel (they are a lot sharper than hobby blades. A lot). Then I laid down vinyl tape for the outline (Finesse Pinstripping tape) and stuck on the vinyl paper cutouts for the checkerboad. Shot a thin coat of clear over it to seal then shot the colors. Pretty easy, really. Better than doing it all in pinstripe tape, that's certain.

What you can't really see in the pictures but I hope shows up in the sun is, the checkerboard goes from a GM color called Blue Steel to a medium charcoal metallic to a silver metallic in a fade. It's pretty subtle. Maybe too subtle. Has the same thing out on the wing tips. I had intended to continue the theme (fade checkerboard) on that dark color on the wing as it went out to the wing tip, but decided that I didn't want to get the thing too busy, so I just used the fade out there. Oh well, I learned something in the process. If you're going to do a fade, use colors that are more dissimilar. I think these were a bit too close and it may be that it is subtle to the point of invisible. Sigh... Nice idea, anyway.

I'm debating on outlining the blue and red in black (or possibly use a dark red and dark blue for the outline). We'll see.

Mark,

This is the first paint scheme I've done in awhile where the colors don't butt up against each other. This allowed me to tape the scheme all at once. Usually, when I do stuff that has colors bordering each other, you are stuck with taping and masking, pulling tape, re-taping and masking, pulling tape, etc. and it takes forever. this is a bit easier. In the future I may try laying down paint color, taping and masking, laying down color and taping and masking over the top sort of process. Man, I have watched way too much Overhaulin'

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #105 on: December 26, 2009, 05:43:53 PM »
I thought about inklines, but now I'm really thinking I'll just leave it be and shoot clear. The name and number are on and I think that may be about it. Simple, clean and relatively light.
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #106 on: December 26, 2009, 08:19:12 PM »
I thought about inklines, but now I'm really thinking I'll just leave it be and shoot clear. The name and number are on and I think that may be about it. Simple, clean and relatively light.

What's the name?

Matt Colan

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #107 on: December 26, 2009, 08:59:20 PM »
I hope the name isn't "Overhaulin'", 'cause that's taken. Still, I just can't imagine Randy using "Slider" for a second go-around. Let's hope that Randy can keep the clear coat thin. Maybe just pull the trigger every third pass across the plane?  :! Steve
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #108 on: December 26, 2009, 09:40:54 PM »
I'll shoot a picture when it done (which should be soon).

And Steve, Slider is in the name.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #109 on: December 29, 2009, 12:35:35 PM »
Well, I had a setback on this plane. What I get for shooting lacquer in the cold, I guess. Too much thinner in the clear over the decals and they crinkled up. So I'm going have to peel them off, sand the area and reshoot base color. Sigh.... Not a bit deal, but frustrating.

I did find out that there is a new sign company in town here and the guy can do vinyl masks. He's pricing me some masks to redo this right now. If he's not too steep, I'll just do that. Looks better anyway.
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Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #110 on: December 29, 2009, 01:26:58 PM »
Well, I had a setback on this plane. What I get for shooting lacquer in the cold, I guess. Too much thinner in the clear over the decals and they crinkled up. So I'm going have to peel them off, sand the area and reshoot base color. Sigh.... Not a bit deal, but frustrating.

I did find out that there is a new sign company in town here and the guy can do vinyl masks. He's pricing me some masks to redo this right now. If he's not too steep, I'll just do that. Looks better anyway.

Hi Randy,
Just to make you feel better, let me tell you a little story about something that happened to me yesterday:
The wing of my plane was already painted, with trim colors, lettering an all. The masking stuff was removed -except for the lettering vinyl masks- and everything came out just perfect. No paint bleeding, no touch up needed. Really neat!
Next I began to remove the vinyl masks from the lettering and noticed -to my despair- that all of the vinyl adhesive got TRANSFERED to the wing. An absolute and complete DISASTER!!! My blood pressure went down to ZERO for quite a while...
I found NO WAY whatsoever to get rid of that NASTY adhesive.
To make a long story short: I'm RECOVERING the wing on those areas again in this very moment! Which means...doping again...re-shooting base color again...etc.
Frustrating? YOU BET! A major mishap for me.

I must tell you that I always use the same vinyl brand -the lettering on my Voodoo and other planes were done this way- but OBVIOUSLY they DECIDED to change the adhesive this time!

If you plan to use vinyl masks PLEASE be sure to do some tests BEFORE putting them on the plane.

Back to the shop now... SH^

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #111 on: December 29, 2009, 01:40:29 PM »
Claudio,
I can relate.
Perhaps instead of vinyl, you may try Gerber mask, or my favorite, MacTac. It is formulated for using as a mask material, it is thinner, so less ridge left over, and it releases much easier than vinyl does.
Randy,
what can I say, painted lettering is cooler anyway right?
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #112 on: December 29, 2009, 03:49:17 PM »
Claudio,

Really sorry to hear that. I know I had some trouble getting adhesive off before without taking the paint off, too. Can be pretty frustrating. Hey, everything has it's drawbacks, I guess.

Mark,

The stuff they guy looks sort of like a more flexible version of Frisket or a thin vinyl of some type. According to the sign guy, the stuff releases easily with a bit of heat. He suggested a hair dryer, though I have a heat gun I can use at low temp. He's cutting the masks right now (and pretty reasonable, too). We'll see what happens.
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Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #113 on: December 29, 2009, 04:07:37 PM »
Claudio,
I can relate.
Perhaps instead of vinyl, you may try Gerber mask, or my favorite, MacTac. It is formulated for using as a mask material, it is thinner, so less ridge left over, and it releases much easier than vinyl does.
Randy,
what can I say, painted lettering is cooler anyway right?

Mark,
I googled Gerber's products and reading the product bulletin, it seems that is very similar to the Frisket Stencil Paper from Badger -which I've used some years ago- but this stuff curls when applying the first coat of paint, due to the thinner action.
According to the Gerber's technical sheet, this product can't be used with lacquer based paints (for the same reason I guess, It doesn't tolerate thinner).
Let me quote:

APPLICATION TECHNIQUES
1.
Cut the GerberMask then weed as a stencil.
2.
Transfer the stencil onto the sign surface using low tack application tape.
3.
Apply the paint within the stencil by hand, airbrush or spray paint. Not for use with lacquer based paints.
4.
Remove the mask when the paint is just dry to the touch. Leaving the mask on longer than necessary could make it difficult to remove.


Have you experienced any curling of the mask using dope or lacquer?

Thanks,
Claudio.


Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #114 on: December 29, 2009, 04:09:51 PM »
Randy,
What kind of vinyl do you use for the masks? Brand/type/part number?

Thank you,
Claudio.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #115 on: December 29, 2009, 04:23:51 PM »
I have not experienced any of those issues
HOWEVER I am fairly conservative in my application of material, lots of dry time, only enough material to insure bonding is applied each coat.
There are , I beleive a couple formulations of Gerber mask, and I know there is for Badger Frisket paper too.
I have sprayed laquer through the Mac Tac and not had problems keeping in mind my application techniques.

Here is where I get mine, if that helps

http://www.hhsignsupply.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=20448&idcategory=365
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #116 on: December 29, 2009, 06:34:34 PM »
Claudio,

For the stencils I cut myself (such as the checkerboard on this plane), I use a vinyl stenciling product sold by Office Depot. I'll have to look up the name and part number. It's out in the shop. But it doesn't seem to be bothered by lacquer.

I don't know the brand that the sign guy is using to cut the stencils. I'll ask when I pick them up tomorrow.
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Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #117 on: December 30, 2009, 09:42:40 AM »
I have not experienced any of those issues
HOWEVER I am fairly conservative in my application of material, lots of dry time, only enough material to insure bonding is applied each coat.
There are , I beleive a couple formulations of Gerber mask, and I know there is for Badger Frisket paper too.
I have sprayed laquer through the Mac Tac and not had problems keeping in mind my application techniques.

Here is where I get mine, if that helps

http://www.hhsignsupply.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=20448&idcategory=365

OK Mark, thanks.
We'll see what can I get here.

Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #118 on: December 30, 2009, 09:49:21 AM »
Claudio,

For the stencils I cut myself (such as the checkerboard on this plane), I use a vinyl stenciling product sold by Office Depot. I'll have to look up the name and part number. It's out in the shop. But it doesn't seem to be bothered by lacquer.

I don't know the brand that the sign guy is using to cut the stencils. I'll ask when I pick them up tomorrow.

Thanks Randy.
Please pass me that info when you can.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #119 on: December 30, 2009, 09:18:57 PM »
OK, Claudio, I went out an looked.

Avery Clear Full Sheet Labels for Inkjet Printers
#8665

This was one of those accidental discoveries. I had these in the drawer and was looking for something to use a a mask. I did a test and the stuff seemed to hold up fine under lacquer and peeled off pretty easily. I did shoot some clear on to seal the edges, but that was probably overkill.

Hope to pick up the vinyl masks tomorrow.
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Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #120 on: December 31, 2009, 06:14:50 AM »
Thank you Randy.
I think I can get that product here, maybe not the same brand, but something similar.
Good tip!

Thanks again,
Claudio.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #121 on: December 31, 2009, 04:39:52 PM »
Well, we ran into a problem. The sign guy's plotter won't do the rather intricate font I choose for part of the mask. Too small, I guess. Anyway, he referred me to another outfit in Bremerton that he thinks can do the job. I won't be able to find out till Monday. Sigh...

That's OK, I can do other stuff until then.

Edit


Well, spent the day peeling decals, sanding the area flat again and reshooting paint on the area. Also was able to tape off and shoot some touch up. Still no vinyl cutter in the area, but I did find a place that looks like they can do it. We'll see. If not, it's back to decals.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 06:23:19 PM by Randy Powell »
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #122 on: January 10, 2010, 08:12:39 PM »
Just a note. I shot clear today. Someone please remind me next time to never paint a plane in the middle of winter. Trying to shoot catalysed polyurethane at 51 degrees and 84% humidity is a pain. Didn't come out too bad overall, but I can see a lot of sanding in my future. It's got some serious orange peel. But there's enough clear on to allow me to level it. But still a pain.

Totally experimental finish in that it is easily the lightest finish I've ever done. Looks to come out in the 6oz range. But, like Sparky's last plane, the base color is pretty thin.

When I get it rubbed and assembled, I'll post a picture.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #123 on: January 10, 2010, 08:19:41 PM »
so  did you end up going back to decals Randy?
FWIW, my little desktop plotter can cut some pretty fine detail.

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #124 on: January 10, 2010, 11:19:32 PM »
Mark,

Yea, I wienied out and used decals. But they came out pretty good. Just a lot of orange peel. I was afraid to put any more reducer in for fear of a bad reaction. I used a 2 to 1 clear and used 1 part reducer as it was (2-1-1). I was afraid any more than that and I'd have problems.

The moral of the story is don't do finishes in January.

Edit


Went down today and picked up some sandpaper (Wet or Dry 800, 1000 and some 2000) to start sanding (perhaps this evening). Also picked up some rubbing compound, finish compound and finish glaze/swirl remover (was just about out). Now the fun starts. It's a lot easier to do before the plane is assembled.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 03:35:09 PM by Randy Powell »
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #125 on: January 13, 2010, 05:07:03 PM »
Mark,

Yea, I wienied out and used decals. But they came out pretty good. Just a lot of orange peel. I was afraid to put any more reducer in for fear of a bad reaction. I used a 2 to 1 clear and used 1 part reducer as it was (2-1-1). I was afraid any more than that and I'd have problems.

The moral of the story is don't do finishes in January.

Edit


Went down today and picked up some sandpaper (Wet or Dry 800, 1000 and some 2000) to start sanding (perhaps this evening). Also picked up some rubbing compound, finish compound and finish glaze/swirl remover (was just about out). Now the fun starts. It's a lot easier to do before the plane is assembled.

Is there any real advantage to starting out with a coarser grit sandpaper and progressively getting to finer grits of sandpaper instead of buffing out with, say, 1200 grit?

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #126 on: January 13, 2010, 06:35:02 PM »
My two cents worth,
on urethane clear, its a generally bad idea to sand with anything courser than 1200 IMHO, UNLESS you have huge amounts of orange peal or edges to deal with. It takes so so long to sand out the 800 scratches. I try to use the finest paper I can on clear. I also find that when you sand with course paper, it kind of changes the "structure" of the clear, it never seems to polish as easy. I do use 800 to remove runs, big dirt chunks or whatever like that. but only locally.

One other not about sanding, except on clear,, ( although it does apply to some extent) the coarser your paper, the straighter and flatter the surface will be. If you sand with to fine of paper, it just follows the contours and wont cut it flat. Thats why if you have major orange peal or surface texture, then 1200 or in extreme cases, lightly with 800, to cut the tops of the texture, or flaw.
when I cut and polish a car that hasnt any major issues, I will start with 1500 and go to 200o before polishing
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Offline Randy Ryan

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #127 on: January 14, 2010, 05:56:34 AM »
I'm with you Mark, using coarser grades on clear adds work and degrades quality. 1500 is the coarsest I'll use on clear but if I did my prep and shoot right, I go directly to 2000.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #128 on: January 14, 2010, 01:02:34 PM »
I also agree. As I noted, it's a bad idea to shoot clear when the temp is riding near 50° and the humidity is high. I got some wicked orange peel. Even at that, I'm only using the 800 for really bad spots (and, of course, already sanded through on one spot necessitating a reshoot of the cowl - sigh ...) . Most of it is being done with 1500 or 2000 depending on what the area looks like. Then the areas that got 1500 are getting 2000. But so far, it's coming out OK. No show piece, but serviceable.
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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2010, 10:27:18 AM »
Well, heck, I managed to sand though in several spots on the cowl (the rest of the fuse is coming out OK). So I'm having to backtrack and repaint the cowl (grumble ....). I tried just leveling out and reshooting base color on the sand through spots, but of course, the topcoat reacted with the color, so it may be that I will have to sand it all down into the color (or substrate) and completely repaint. Not a big deal, but a pain none the less. We'll see tonight.
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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2010, 10:38:30 AM »
"No show piece, but serviceable."

Sure, yeah right, we believe that don't we guys?
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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2010, 10:41:59 AM »
Hey Randy,
to quote a recent post on some "other" thread,,,

are we having fun yet!

I have every confidence, that once completed, it will be in fact servicable, now will it fly well,,

Oh by the way, my employment situation is now going to allow me to have more building and finishing time as well,,
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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2010, 03:56:03 PM »
Randy,

Serviceable is the word. Will look pretty good from 5 feet. It's a pretty uncomplicated scheme and the execution is probably in the not bad to good range. But not excellent. It has the benefit of being light, so that's something. I am promising myself that I will never try to finish a plane in the winter again. That's certain. If I build it in the winter, it goes in the rack to await spring for painting. Unless it's all done with iron on.

Mark,

It should be a good flyer if straight (and it certainly appears to be). A bit heavier than I'd like (aren't they all?) but not at all bad. Certainly in the ballpark (about 55oz on 590 square inches - 2 oz or so lighter than the Ringmaster Deluxe and it's essentially the same plane).

>>Oh by the way, my employment situation is now going to allow me to have more building and finishing time as well<<

Is this because the hours changed, reduced or because you don't have any anymore?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 11:04:45 PM by Randy Powell »
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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2010, 09:16:00 PM »
Pretty much, I shuffle papers, and put out fires at work, there is not much work, so not many fires to put out or questions to resolve. I have been cut back to about half time. still, better than no time,, but it remains to be seen how the whole unemplyment and half work time sorts out,, will find that out next week probably,
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2010, 11:09:21 PM »
Mark,

Well, I've had a week at my new job. It's OK, but I'm likely to go crazy as it's not very complicated (though others there complain about the work load). The pay is not bad though the hours are longer. Sigh.... I really need to hit the lotto.

More work on the plane. The cowl is repainted and not horrible, but some other problems have come up. Minor, but the paint is so thin, it's not easy to fix. I suspect I'll just move on and finish it up. It will likely be a good flyer, though it will never be a beauty queen. But hey, I've had beauty queens that didn't fly worth spit. I'll take the good flyer that is not as pretty.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2010, 11:21:00 PM »
Dude, I never heard you took a job? thought you were still building models all day long,, sheesh,,
looking forward to seeing the new plane as always,,
I may actually have time to finish the Avenger, AND the long ignored bf 109 before the REgionals,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #136 on: January 16, 2010, 10:47:34 PM »
Mark,

Yep, started on the 11th. It's 8am to 5:30, so I get a bit more sleep than I did (working 7am to 4pm), but I get to stay up to watch the news. It's OK and it's nice to have a job where I only have to worry about me and my work and not supervise anything or anyone. I can concentrate on models more that way.

I was gone all day shopping with the spouse today (jewelry store, IKEA and the video store - woohoo, I got a new TV finally), so no work on the beast. But I'll be back at it tomorrow and I'm off for MLK day so I get Monday to work on it, too.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #137 on: January 20, 2010, 10:44:38 AM »
Update. I ran into some minor problems. Since the paint is pretty thin and I had problems with pretty severe orange peel (I will never shoot catalyzed polyurethane in the cold again), I ended up with several spots where I rubbed through the base color. I was debating on fixing them or just saying to heck with it and putting the thing together, but after some consideration, I decided that they would bug me too much. So, I will go back and reshoot those areas and blend in some clear over the top and re-sand and rub. Sigh...
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #138 on: January 27, 2010, 06:58:27 PM »
Uh...Randy...c'mon, let's see it!  VD~ Steve
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Painting a new plane
« Reply #139 on: January 28, 2010, 10:43:26 AM »
steve,

I'm just rubbing it out (about half done). Not a beauty queen (I hate rub through spots and I have a couple), but then, I'd rather have a good flying plane and this one should be. I couldn't stand it so I weighed everything to get an idea of final all up weight. This is certainly the lightest finish I've ever done. All up weight is 53 oz. (based on weighing all the parts, drive train, nuts and bolts and such). That means this finish is under 6oz. Beats the last plane where the finish was almost more than the airframe.

Hope to have it done in the next couple of days and I'll post pictures.

Edit

I should note that when I shot the topcoat, it was way too cold so I get quite a lot of orange peel. I could get rid of some of it in the buffing process, but I laid it on pretty thinly and so, I can get rid of it all. This is why I ended up rubbing through in some spots. I decided it was better with some orange peel than with a lot of rub through spots.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 01:23:37 PM by Randy Powell »
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