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Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: RogerGreene on October 08, 2013, 08:32:28 AM
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Has anyone tried DEFT products? They have a Brushing Lacquer and Sanding Sealer. Are they fuel proof? And are they as good as Sig or Brodack products.
Also, has anyone tried MINWAX Clear Brushing Lacquer?
Thanks,
Roger
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I have used the Deft products and they are lacquer based. I use it on electric planes and I doubt it is fuel proof.
JD
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I think a quick search on here would reveal a TON of threads ( ok so maybe not a ton,, electrons dont weigh much),, regarding alternate finishing methods and materials.. perhaps that would be a great starting point to see what has already been shared,,
cheers,, H^^
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And note that you are never going to get as good a finish with hardware store materials as you will with the real deal, whether that "real deal" be dope from Sig or Brodaks, or automotive paints from the paint store.
Hardware store paints are designed to sell cheaply, be easy to apply by unskilled and uncaring hands, and to work just well enough that the consumer comes back for more.
Airplane or automotive finishing materials are designed to higher standards, with the assumption that you're willing to spend more on the materials and equipment, and to have more expertise, than the hardware store stuff.
You can vastly raise the quality of the end product of the hardware store materials by approaching the job like a pro -- but you can only carry things so far before you find yourself totally limited by the materials, rather than by your ability or the time you're willing to spend. At some point you reach a wall beyond which you cannot go, and when you get to that wall you're putting more effort into a lesser paint job than you would if you went with 'pro' materials.
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Thanks Tim for all that info. But you didn't answer my question. I just wanted to know if they are fuel proof. I am not trying to have a '40' point finish. I will save my SIG dope for that. Just want to know if anyone has used the 'Hardware Store' lacquer paints.
Thanks
Roger
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Deft not fuel proof. I did control handle with deft and it got sticky from raw fuel on my hand.
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Thanks Tim for all that info. But you didn't answer my question. I just wanted to know if they are fuel proof. I am not trying to have a '40' point finish. I will save my SIG dope for that. Just want to know if anyone has used the 'Hardware Store' lacquer paints.
You're probably not getting an answer because no one knows.
What contests do you go to where you get a 40 point finish?
The non-metallic colors of Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel, in both the quart can and the spray-bomb, is fuel proof in my experience. I'm told you should wait two weeks after painting before you slosh fuel around; I've always taken that advice and I've had no problems. There's a lot of folks who report using it with good success. If you have spray equipment getting it by the quart is way cheaper, assuming that you can use up the can.
I took two planes to the Salem, OR contest this past weekend. They are painted with Rustoleum on Monocoat, and they got 17 and 15 appearance points, respectively. So you can do OK with Rustoleum, at least at a local contest.
I have heard, but have not tested myself, that Dupli-Color gloss clear from the auto parts store is fuel proof. Also Wheel Bright clear. Perry Rose, who occasionally gets on this forum, is a big fan of Dupli-Color spray-bombs.
But I dunno about the specific paints that you mention. If you really want to use one, get a can or two, spray a test patch or two, and dribble some raw fuel on it. In spite of all the good things I had heard about Rustoleum that's what I did before I used it.
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I've used Deft lacquer on reworked wood props. It's definitely not fuel "proof". Semi-fuel resistant. Kinda of. But raw fuel takes it right off.
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Thanks Randy. I have been given several cans of it and wanted to know if it was worthy to use.
.
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Tim, the '40' points was a figure of speech, only....
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Tim, the '40' points was a figure of speech, only....
OH! (Sorry -- I sometimes compulsively proof-read. Usually I resist the temptation to get out the red pen.)
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Rustoleum colors, not metallic or clear, rattle cans
Painter's touch
Stop Rust
Professional
Automotive
After 2 weeks Sig Champion 25% will not remove, but slight color transfer with rubbing. Dark colors discolor, but return to normal after several hours.
I have tried about a dozen colors and they all work fine.
The paint is heavy, so prime with dope or dope+corn starch if you can, sanded off. 1 coat of sandable primer, sand well, 1 coat color with touch-ups to keep things light. Mask off the push rod as it collects a surprising amount of paint.
Phil
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Rustoleum colors, not metallic or clear, rattle cans
Painter's touch
Stop Rust
Professional
Automotive
Interesting. I've heard that Painter's Touch doesn't work well, and indeed a canopy that I painted with black Painter's Touch turned gooey after a while.
Manufacturers are constantly changing their formulations, though, so it could just be that Painter's Touch used to be susceptible to fuel.
Mask off the push rod as it collects a surprising amount of paint.
I build my models so the pushrod can be installed after painting (with a threaded end into a ball link on the bellcrank), and paint the pushrod to match the model. This works great if you have a stripe of some dark color down the middle of the fuselage, but still looks pretty good even if you just paint it the main color or one of the major trim colors.
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Interesting. I've heard that Painter's Touch doesn't work well, and indeed a canopy that I painted with black Painter's Touch turned gooey after a while.
Manufacturers are constantly changing their formulations, though, so it could just be that Painter's Touch used to be susceptible to fuel.
Well, I test with Sig Champion 25% (since I mostly 1/2a) painted and let cure 2 weeks. Apply a folded paper towel that is wet with fuel to the test area. Cover with some plastic and let sit 1 hour (60 minutes) and inspect. The test area should still be wet with fuel. Color changes are of little concern (all have lightened temporally and returned to original by the next day). Transfer to the paper towel without rubbing IS concern. Stickiness to finger or paper towel with light rubbing/pickup pressure is of concern.
Transfer with heavier pressure and rubbing is not of concern. Darker colors have shown slight transfer while lighter colors have not. They were not sticky.
Now...EXHAUST is a different animal than fuel. It includes partially burnt hydrocarbons, various cross-linked, partially polymerized oils, and is a different type of aggressive animal than fuel itself. I have NOT tested for exhaust, although I have "painter's touch" on a couple planes so I will find out eventually. In the short term they are fine.
Phil
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And note that you are never going to get as good a finish with hardware store materials as you will with the real deal, whether that "real deal" be dope from Sig or Brodaks, or automotive paints from the paint store.
Hardware store paints are designed to sell cheaply, be easy to apply by unskilled and uncaring hands, and to work just well enough that the consumer comes back for more.
Airplane or automotive finishing materials are designed to higher standards, with the assumption that you're willing to spend more on the materials and equipment, and to have more expertise, than the hardware store stuff.
You can vastly raise the quality of the end product of the hardware store materials by approaching the job like a pro -- but you can only carry things so far before you find yourself totally limited by the materials, rather than by your ability or the time you're willing to spend. At some point you reach a wall beyond which you cannot go, and when you get to that wall you're putting more effort into a lesser paint job than you would if you went with 'pro' materials.
Well, for the first time I have to say that Tim hit the nail on the head about finishing materials and the attitude toward doing the job that must go with finishing (Mark told me I had to say that - however it's true!)
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Well, I finally got around to spraying the color on my latest plane for fun. Rustoleum Gloss Grey. Followed the instructions and now have several flights on it after letting it set the required two weeks for cure. So far the fuel has not got to it.
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Gotcha Streak?
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Rustoleum colors, not metallic or clear, rattle cans
Painter's touch
Stop Rust
Professional
Automotive
After 2 weeks Sig Champion 25% will not remove, but slight color transfer with rubbing. Dark colors discolor, but return to normal after several hours.
I have tried about a dozen colors and they all work fine.
The paint is heavy, so prime with dope or dope+corn starch if you can, sanded off. 1 coat of sandable primer, sand well, 1 coat color with touch-ups to keep things light. Mask off the push rod as it collects a surprising amount of paint.
Phil
Good advice!
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I have been messing with Minwax Polycrylic for a base coat with fair results on a couple airplanes. I find it heavy though. The product is not fuel proof, as you can strip it with a scrubby sponge and denatured alcohol instead of sanding.
Yesterday I tried some samples of Zinser Bullseye water based primer with promising results. I put some on a bamboo skewer, and after a mere hour did a 1 hour test with Sig Champion 25% and found the coating softened, but did not strip outright. It did tear with rubbing. This primer sands easily, and seems much lighter than the Polycrlic (which does not sand well).
I still like dope for a base coat, but it is less easy to get and quite pricey.
Phil