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Author Topic: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan  (Read 835 times)

Offline Miotch

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Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« on: February 22, 2023, 06:16:20 PM »
Because I'm building much of my current plane in the office, I'm looking for ways to avoid dope smells.
So, I'm reading stuff here and other places and decided to try something some others said worked.  But I was skeptical.
So I started with a rudder.

Simply mixed Titebond II with hot water, dipped my finger in it (didn't have a brush) and rubbed it all over the wood structure.  No sealer, just straight on the balsa.
Then, because I'm impatient, I hit it with a heat gun to dry.
About two minutes later, I laid the wet silkspan on it and used an iron on the leading edge.  Pulled the covering tight, and went around the perimeter of the frame with the iron.
Flipped it over and did the same thing to the other side.
I did not hit the ribs with the iron because I want the silkspan to fully shrink before I adhere it anywhere but the very edge.  I only ironed about 1/4" on the perimeter of the frame.

And Lo and behold, I think it turned out as good, or better, than anything I've ever covered.  No wrinkles anywhere (of course there isn't a wingtip involved, either).  Very clean, I was wearing a suit, minus the jacket.  Fast and I never felt like I was fighting the clock.

I'm impressed.  As of now, I plan on trying Polycrylic instead of dope.  I'll cross my fingers my good luck keeps up.

[Edit]:  After looking at that picture, I thought WTF ?? Can I not build anything straight ????!!!!  So, I go down the hall and look at the rudder and the ribs are actually straight; I guess weird camera angle made it look like I built it passed-out drunk.


« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 07:54:08 AM by Miotch »

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2023, 07:06:49 PM »
We need to form a club!  I am on my 2nd PA built entirely in my office.  Polycrylic is great, no lasting smell.  So is ModPodge, virtually no smell at all.  Another skill I have had to learn is sanding without blowing the dust off.  That one still needs some work.   Does the titebond act like a heat activated glue? 

Ken
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If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Miotch

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2023, 09:03:56 PM »
It did work like a heat activated glue, although it didn’t quite act like one. There was no real indication it was doing anything except that it just held. I did experiment with heat on the iron and about halfway worked best. Tight as a drum and so much easier to mold around the corners using an iron rather than trying to pull if four directions. I’d just dab a little more water with my finger on the area I was forming as I bent it around the edge.  You do have to coat the edge of the first piece you put on so that the other side has adhesive to activate where it overlaps.

And I seriously need to bring the shop vac to the office. It’s a spare office but I blow the dust everywhere so the desk looks clean when my partners walk by wondering exactly when I went crazy.

Offline Miotch

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2023, 06:51:56 AM »
Hint:  DO NOT get in a hurry and forget to clean your iron before you attempt the next part of covering.  I got lucky and the top and bottom of one side of the elevator nicely done despite the sticky iron.  I had to hold and roll it rather than pull it across the silkspan.  I knew I would get in a hurry at some point and screw this thing up.  But sometimes luck is better than skill when you have little of the latter.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2023, 08:43:01 AM »
   Heat activating white glue isn't new. I used to apply leading edge sheeting to the wings of R/C sailplanes that way back in the 1980's, and the technique was probably around longer than that. As I remember the explanation of how it works, the heat melts and crystalizes the glue almost instantly, and is a "one and done" proposition. I'm guessing that any moisture content in the wood helps the process also. It can't be loosened and repositioned. I suspect the Modge Podge product works the same way. I have never tried thinning it to apply covering with but will keep that tucked away in my memory banks for future tests.

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Offline Miotch

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2023, 10:40:07 AM »
   Heat activating white glue isn't new. I used to apply leading edge sheeting to the wings of R/C sailplanes that way back in the 1980's, and the technique was probably around longer than that. As I remember the explanation of how it works, the heat melts and crystalizes the glue almost instantly, and is a "one and done" proposition. I'm guessing that any moisture content in the wood helps the process also. It can't be loosened and repositioned. I suspect the Modge Podge product works the same way. I have never tried thinning it to apply covering with but will keep that tucked away in my memory banks for future tests.

   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

I apologize if my topic line is somewhat misleading.  I didn't intend to imply it was new, just new to me.  If it weren't for people figuring this out and then putting something about it on the internet, I would have never ever thought about it.  And even then, having grown up in a house where dad doped fabric on real planes and I put everything on my models using dope, I had a hard time convincing myself to try something different.  But I wish I had known and tried this when I was a kid, because it just seems superior in every way to the battles I had with dope when I was young.  I will also try using this on sheeting next time.

This is honestly the first time I've tried a lot of stuff.  Like using carpenters glue instead of Ambroid.  And I've found that Ambroid may smell and sand better, the alphetic resin seems to hold a whole lot better.  A lot of this is simply because I'm lazy and cheap.

Offline Miotch

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2023, 02:02:02 PM »
So, I've attached silkspan on rudder and elevator.  Start small, so if I screw up, I can strip it and start over.

After googling high and low and reading all I could on this site, I approached the covered surfaces with a can of Polycrylic, a foam brush and great trepidation.  First, I put a bit around the edge I'd ironed on and let dry.  I noticed even there, that the water-based finish let the silkspan loosen up a bit until it dried.  So, I held my breath and put a coat on the top and bottom of only one side of the elevator (minimize damage) and it did just what I was afraid of: sagged like hell.  But I grit my teeth and waited it out.  It was tough for me to not just reach up there and rip it all off while it was wet and loose, because it seemed so heavy and loose I honestly did not think it would re-tighten.  After about 20 minutes, I saw quite a bit of improvement, but I went ahead and hit it softly with the heat gun from about 2-feet away.  Just lightly.  Sure enough, it pulled taut again.  I wet my fingertip and worked on a couple areas along the ribs as I purposely hadn't sealed it down on the ribs yet until it was tight, and I didn't want it to adhere in a way it would wrinkle.  I went ahead and covered the rudder and other elevator and made myself walk away. So far, so good.  But I still fear trying to sand it smooth over the open bays and edge of the ribs.   If it works well, I may go ahead and cover the wings with the SGM silkspan instead of Koverall.  If it doesn't work well, I'll curse, stomp, sleep on it and start again.

It's hard stepping out of my comfort zone after all those years with nitrate/butyrate.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 03:19:55 PM by Miotch »

Offline kevin king

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2023, 06:53:42 PM »
use a small brush to add extra coats over the ribs. i brush on about 10 coats over the ribs and edges of all the open bays. Adds next to no weight and you will never sand through over the ribs again.

Offline Miotch

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2023, 08:20:46 AM »
use a small brush to add extra coats over the ribs. i brush on about 10 coats over the ribs and edges of all the open bays. Adds next to no weight and you will never sand through over the ribs again.

That sounds like a plan I need to follow.  Thanks !!

Online doug coursey

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2023, 09:41:02 AM »
WINDY URTNOSKI WOULD PUT FILLER ON THE RIB CAPS AND SAND IT SMOOTH BEFORE COVERING THE WING...HE WOULD THEN PUT EXTRA COATS OF CLEAR ON THE RIB CAPS AFTER IT WAS COVERED
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Offline Miotch

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Re: Old Dog; New Trick with silkspan
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2023, 07:02:01 AM »
Wow.  Using an iron to put on wet silkspan is a game changer.  The biggest single improvement in building model planes since I figured out how to use a clamp back in 1972 or so.

Like putting on Monokote, but 10 times easier and without the mess and not fighting it trying to stretch it around corners.  Never had anything turn out this good (which probably says something about my lack of skills compared to most of you !!).

It is just so pleasing to have something come out exactly as I was hoping.  And it helps motivate me to keep going.  But I need to slow down and think because I tend to get rolling and start making mistakes.



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