Author Topic: water slide decals (Read 3531 times)

Chris_Burgess · « **on:** December 13, 2012, 10:41:41 AM »

Hey guys, I have recently acquired decal paper and I have an ink jet printer, I am curious of anyone has made their own waterslide decals, and what the process for preparing them is, any help is appreciated. Thank you.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2012, 10:53:26 AM »

Quote from: Chris_Burgess on December 13, 2012, 10:41:41 AM

Hey guys, I have recently acquired decal paper and I have an ink jet printer, I am curious of anyone has made their own waterslide decals, and what the process for preparing them is, any help is appreciated. Thank you.

Chris,

Does your printer print white?

Many modelers have had success in making their own decals. I have sent camera ready art to many.

Thing is, UV beats them up and so does fuel. Clear coat can solve the fuel thing some and Frog Juice can help with the UV.

Still see the clear between the art or lettering after a while.

I don't make them, but some graphic guys provide rub on transfers. I know the high end Jet guys use them.

Charles

Matt Colan · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2012, 11:28:55 AM »

Hi Chris,

I make my own decals for each airplane I build. I haven't had the problems Avaiojet described, and I print them out on inkjet decal paper.

After making the decals I like, I print them out on regular paper first to make sure I got the sizes of each decal correct. This is a must do because it just saves you time, ink and decal paper. When I print them out, I will set them out to dry for a couple days in a dust free area. Then after the decals are dry, I spray two coats of clear on them to seal the ink. One dry dust coat and then one wet coat. Then slide the decals on just like any other water slide decal. One thing I have found is do not wipe the surface down with prep solv. It mars the decal and doesn't come out as it should. Just prep the surface with windex or something similar.

When the decals are on and dry on the airplane, spray on a couple coats of clear over the decals. This seals them and helps mask the edge. After that, then you can spray the rest of the airplane with clear.

There are probably other ways to do it but this is how I've applied decals and I've had success with it.

Claudio Chacon · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2012, 04:00:33 PM »

Hi Chris,
I make my own decals as well and have been doing it for years. In my case, I use laser jet decal paper (clear and white backing paper). The difference between ink and laser is that with the laser decal paper there is no need to apply clear to fix the ink before transfering the decal to the model. Just print it, submerge the decal into tap water for 20 seconds (NO more than that) and slide them on. To remove the excess water, lay a paper towel over it and GENTLY press with your fingers all over the decal. Replace the paper towel when wet. Check for any air bubbles and carefully remove them by rubbing with a paper towel (from the center to the edges, again, CAREFULLY).
Let dry for no less than 24 hours. Apply two light coats of clear dope only over the decals and let them dry thoroughly (I use an airbrush for this). These two clear dope coats keeps the decals from melting when you apply the final fuel proof clear coats of whatever product you use. (I use PPG 2K polyurethane automotive clear for fuelproofing)

The decals you see on the purple ship were applied in 2002 and the plane has more than 950 flights on it. No fade whatsoever.

Good luck with your project.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2012, 04:13:50 PM »

Chris:

I've used them a couple of times, they seem to work great. Didn't yours come with directions?

The directions with mine were, roughly: print your decal, spray on Krylon Crystal Clear (fog it for the first coat, then do one or two "real" coats), then apply. I suspect that you could use clear dope instead of Crystal Clear, but I haven't tried it. Read those instructions!!

Definitely coat with clear dope when done.

Charles:

What's "Frog Juice"? And in response to your crack about printers printing white: you can get decal paper with white backing.

Matt:

What printer and ink do you use? Fading in the sun is a function of the printer ink. I know that Randy Powell has reported problems with ink fading if he uses red.

Scott Bauman · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2012, 05:02:58 PM »

Not many printers will print white. If you need say a white decal over say a black background-you would need to print your letters with white ink on a clear decal sheet.
-Scott

John Hammonds · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2012, 05:47:18 PM »

I have printed my own decals for a few years. Worth remembering if you are applying them to anything other than a light background is transparent decal paper is no good at all because the decal is not opaque enough to stop the underlying colour showing through. White/cream and yellow models seem take clear decal paper well but not many other colours. Also as already said if our design has white in it you need white decal paper. The only issues I have had apart from fading over time is if you have a particularly large decal (Say close to A4 size) the outside can be ready to apply while the centre is still firmly stuck to the backing sheet also with large decals I have had problems with stretching causing the coating to crack which lets water in during application which will cause ink jet decals to bleed because the ink is not water proof.

TTFN
John.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2012, 07:17:12 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on December 13, 2012, 04:13:50 PM

Charles: What's "Frog Juice"? And in response to your crack about printers printing white: you can get decal paper with white backing.

Tim,

Yes, I know you can get white decal paper, and it really wasn't a crack. It was a simple question that was meant to have a bit of humor.

"Frog Juice." I've mentioned this product a dozen times if not more on the Forum. It's used by professionals, in the graphics, commercial art and vinyl printing industry. Been around a while.

I personally never took a liking to it because it's water based, unless there's a new Juice? I have this thing about water based stuff as a clear coat.

My background in the commercial art field was always with automotive, aviation or marine industry finishes. Certainly Frog Juice must be a product, as it is described and used, but, as I said, the only water based products that I use is in the gallery art industry. Generally a brand called Golden Acrylics. And yes, automotive clear finishes can be applied over artists acrylic paints.

I may just try using artists acrylic on The LOSER. I have a few ideas.

Please google Frog Juice and see what comes up. I know a few others, on my recomendation, have.

Claudio,

That ship is beautiful! Really good work! Kudos!!

Charles

Matt Colan · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2012, 07:30:15 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on December 13, 2012, 04:13:50 PM

Matt:

What printer and ink do you use? Fading in the sun is a function of the printer ink. I know that Randy Powell has reported problems with ink fading if he uses red.

I use either the inkjet printer at my house or the printer at my grandparents house. I believe we use HP printers, but I don't know for sure since I'm not home yet.

The decal paper we ordered was from decalpaper.com. Haven't had a problem with decals fading. All of mine look just as they did when I put them on the airplane

Paul Smith · « **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2012, 09:15:53 PM »

I've done all this with a ink jet printer. The lack of white ink is a serious handicap for scale work. I can live with it on stunt and scale planes by planning the trim scheme with the white decal paper in mind.

Subjects like a black or blue airplane with white, yellow, or red lettering can't be done.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2012, 07:52:18 AM »

There is a process called "silk screening."

Actually still done today, mainly in the T-shirt industry the fabric industry and other areas that would be surprising.

With the advent of full color printing equipment, silk screening, in the sign industry, has taken somewhat of a back seat although in some cases, depending on the use, still popular.

For those modelers concerned with scale, developing a relationship with a silk screening company, actually an individual as an asset, would make possible for the applying of any color on any color and any graphic, including small lettering.

It does require a bit of knowledge and skill to work with small silk screens, but manageable.

Google "silk screening" and doors will open up to the unlimited possibilities of this method of applying ink to surfaces.

Yes, in special cases, for art reproduction on signs, I've actually paid, customer did actually, for a screen or two to make the producing of some signs easier. Generally Architectural signage with complicated logos or renderings of buildings. In all cases, the customer would supply camera ready art.

Certainly a medium that could be considered.

Charles

Chris_Burgess · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2012, 03:55:45 PM »

The Decal has a substantial amount of white in it, but it is outlined with black and this Decal is wholly original a friend of mine made it. And every Time I build the Design I'm coming up with it will be covered in white or painted in white, so Clear or White backing is not a big deal, it's basically all black and white with a little red trim.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2012, 08:54:17 PM »

I've had decals fade that weren't prepared correctly. You are more likely to see fading with reds and yellows and usually none with blues, blacks and purples. If you prep them right and us a topcoat with UV protection, you usually don't have a lot of problem.

And you have to be clever with the color under them. It can be used quite well if you are careful.

Paul Wood · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2012, 10:00:59 AM »

I also use water slide decals from decalpaper.com. Just a word of caution. If you make a large decal, you will have to cut it into smaller pieces to get a good release from the backing paper. I lay pieces of 1/8 vinyl tape on the plane to use as alignment aids. I then cut (use sharp x-acto or razor blades, not scissors) pieces that will not show cut marks (i.e. not through the middle of an emblem). A piece larger than about 2" x 2" is problematic. I use a combination of knife blade and tweezers to remove the backing. Use gloved hands and lightly soaped water to slide the decal into position. Blot with a soft rag; paper towel might marr the decal if it's not already clear coated. The attached photo shows my Nobler. The "nobler" and "22785" were each cut into 3 separate pieces. I tried to apply using 2 pieces each. Disaster!

Paul

Avaiojet · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2012, 10:08:54 AM »

Paul,

Nice work!

Robart hinges?

Charles

Bill Little · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2012, 12:13:46 PM »

There WERE commercially available printers that printed white. The ALPS MD5000 was about the best. Unfortunately, they have been OOP for quite a while now, and ink cartridges, especially white, are getting hard to come by.

I believe OKI made one that used toner drums. You had to chenge drums to do the white. Not real user friendly.

I have a MD5000, but need to get ink cartridges. Something I will be looking for after the first of the year. it also prints metallic silver and gold plus chrome and gold leaf. The printers become available on ebay, but they are easy to mess up. The "anti curl" motor burns out easily.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Paul Wood · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2012, 02:00:05 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on December 15, 2012, 10:08:54 AM

Paul,

Nice work!

Robart hinges?

Charles

Charles,

Yes. I've used them for years on C/L and R/C. Never had a failure.

Paul

Avaiojet · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2012, 02:33:14 PM »

Paul,

Thanks for the reply.

That's really neat and precise work, I see you pay attention to detail. Kudos!

Also looks like you paint everything before plugging in the control surfaces, correct?

Let me guess?

You use slow cure epoxy for hinges so you can have plenty of time to clean what seeps from the hinge pocket.

Charles

Paul Wood · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2012, 03:15:18 PM »

Charles,

A little off topic here, so my apologies to the OP. Question 1, yes. Question 2, no; I use canopy glue. More flex than cured epoxy. No cracking around the hinges.

Paul

Avaiojet · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2012, 04:51:45 PM »

Quote from: Paul Wood on December 15, 2012, 03:15:18 PM

Charles, A little off topic here, so my apologies to the OP. Question 1, yes. Question 2, no; I use canopy glue. More flex than cured epoxy. No cracking around the hinges. Paul

Paul,

Do you have photos of your decals on models or whatever? That will get the Thread back on track.

Charles

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2012, 09:28:43 PM »

Click on the green "033.jpg, 037.jpg" etc., not on the red X in the box, in the post about 6 up. It's weird, I don't know why that works and not right clicking on the red X and clicking on "show picture", or why they don't show up as thumbnails. Strange!

Steve

Avaiojet · « **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2012, 09:44:32 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on December 15, 2012, 09:28:43 PM

Click on the green "033.jpg, 037.jpg" etc., not on the red X in the box, in the post about 6 up. It's weird, I don't know why that works and not right clicking on the red X and clicking on "show picture", or why they don't show up as thumbnails. Strange! Steve

Steve,

I did as you suggested. Both those photo opened in Photoshop. They were visible a day ago. I didn't notice they were "red X" out and not visible.

Here's Paul's fine work. I'd like to see more.

Charles

Randy Powell · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2012, 05:00:52 PM »

Here's one I did that seems to be working out OK. Didn't have the pixelization in printing.

dave siegler · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2012, 04:02:48 AM »

this stuff?

http://www.advantagesignsupply.com/Superfrog-Frog-Juice-12-oz-

Chris_Burgess · « **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2012, 07:36:16 PM »

Hey Matt, big ups for the website decalpaper.com I'm absolutely going to give them some of my business...

Ara Dedekian · « **Reply #25 on:** December 20, 2012, 10:02:55 PM »

Chris

I've just started using custom waterslide decals on my free flight models. The easiest source for the paper is Testors, who have six packs of 5.5"x8.5" clear(No 9201) and white(No 9202). The white is really opaque and blocked the bright red bakground quite well as seen in the photo below. It also solves the problem of printers not printing white. Downloaded the American Eagle logo, sized it, and printed it out on my Epson printer which has watersoluble ink.(haven't figured out the ink thing yet!) Used artists 'fixer', an oilbased spray, to coat the decal before putting it in water. Did the same for the tail numbers (yellow ink on white decal paper) but had to cut each number out individually. (which explains the poor job) Hope this helps.

Ara Dedekian

Randy Powell · « **Reply #26 on:** December 21, 2012, 09:49:48 AM »

Dave,

I just depend on the UV screen in the topcoat of the plane. If dope, I add it, if catalyzed polyurethane car paint, it already has it.

Paul Wood · « **Reply #27 on:** December 22, 2012, 09:26:32 AM »

Quote from: Ara Dedekian on December 20, 2012, 10:02:55 PM

Chris

I've just started using custom waterslide decals on my free flight models. The easiest source for the paper is Testors, who have six packs of 5.5"x8.5" clear(No 9201) and white(No 9202). The white is really opaque and blocked the bright red bakground quite well as seen in the photo below. It also solves the problem of printers not printing white. Downloaded the American Eagle logo, sized it, and printed it out on my Epson printer which has watersoluble ink.(haven't figured out the ink thing yet!) Used artists 'fixer', an oilbased spray, to coat the decal before putting it in water. Did the same for the tail numbers (yellow ink on white decal paper) but had to cut each number out individually. (which explains the poor job) Hope this helps.

Ara Dedekian

Ara,

I solved the problem of having to cut out each emblem separately. I use Microsoft Word 2010 to create my decal. This software allows me to select the background color from about a brazillian million different shades. I'm sure other software has this same feature. I print (on paper) a few different back ground colors that are similar to the airplane, and select one that best matches the airplane color. Then I print the decal and cut around the emblem. The photos show the results. If you blow up the photos to a larger size, you can see the edges of the decal, and they are the same color as the wing. FYI, for those looking for a lazer printer, I have an office store print them for me. Just take them the decal paper and a zip drive with your emblem on it. Cost is minimal. Good luck.

Paul

Avaiojet · « **Reply #28 on:** December 22, 2012, 10:05:38 AM »

Paul,

WOW!

Interesting model! Got other photos?

Kudos on the model and the decals.

Charles

Ara Dedekian · « **Reply #29 on:** December 22, 2012, 10:52:52 AM »

Paul

Thanks for the info. Your process makes sense and seems the simplest and easiest the way to eliminate cutting out the letters. I'll definitely figure it out on my system. Coincidenally, I've been looking at the Stunt Wing on the BMJR site as my next C/L build. A reallly cool design and will compliment my 28" flying saucer (design unknown) when we do C/L demos up here in Maine.

Thanks Again
Ara Dedekian