Author Topic: masking tape (Read 2605 times)

Dan Berry · « **on:** April 07, 2022, 07:13:17 PM »

A quick question
I am using the supergalactic plastic masking tape from 3M.
Paint is Nason basecoat.
I have started to lay out a simple scheme. I had to remove a mistake and have lifted some basecoat. I'll need to do a fix. Oh goody!
Do I need to use a hair dryer to soften the adhesive on the tape when pulling?
Yes, I know how to pull tape.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2022, 09:00:25 PM »

Quote from: Dan Berry on April 07, 2022, 07:13:17 PM

A quick question
I am using the supergalactic plastic masking tape from 3M.
Paint is Nason basecoat.
I have started to lay out a simple scheme. I had to remove a mistake and have lifted some basecoat. I'll need to do a fix. Oh goody!
Do I need to use a hair dryer to soften the adhesive on the tape when pulling?
Yes, I know how to pull tape.

I would use some heat. I had nothing but trouble with tape till I started double masking. I use a skinny version of a painter's tape/drape, rarely pulls. How wide is this "supergalactic" stuff.

Ken

Dan Berry · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2022, 09:10:03 PM »

1/4” wide

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2022, 10:34:54 PM »

Quote from: Dan Berry on April 07, 2022, 09:10:03 PM

1/4” wide

Try it with 1/8" or cut some paper to come close to the line and use the 1/4" to mask on one side and tape to the paper on the other. The less the tape touches the plane the less it can pull!

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2022, 11:16:01 PM »

Quote from: Dan Berry on April 07, 2022, 07:13:17 PM

A quick question
I am using the supergalactic plastic masking tape from 3M.
Paint is Nason basecoat.
I have started to lay out a simple scheme. I had to remove a mistake and have lifted some basecoat. I'll need to do a fix. Oh goody!
Do I need to use a hair dryer to soften the adhesive on the tape when pulling?
Yes, I know how to pull tape.

In my entire career as a commercial artist, and I did plenty of air brush and paint on many substrates, over 40 years of it! I can't EVER remember using heat on tape to remove it.

If any paint is removed with tape, something was not done correctly. All the models I've painted and finished, aerosol cans, never did paint come off any of the models removing tape. Or "masks" for that matter. And this model, my Flite Streak 007 was LOADED with both. That's a big mask, times 4!

Take a look at the evidence.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/paint-and-finishing/yup-that's-black-paint-on-the-skyfall-007/

Heat could get you in trouble especially if you sprayed silver in the "layers.

Charles

Will Hinton · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2022, 08:55:11 AM »

I always use heat for pulling the tape. To have some substrate come off does NOT mean you did something wrong, it means the substrate wasn't totally bonded yet. Some tapes are more adhesive than others and it is always wise to use the heat, though not much is needed, to pull the tape. Yes, proper technique is best to use, but a little, read that again, a "little" heat is a wise means of pulling.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2022, 01:03:00 PM »

Certainly modelers can do whatever they want, but like I said, 40 years of pulling tape, just about every day, and I never used heat.

Some tapes can leave color on the substrate, so if heat is used one must be really careful.

Yes tapes have various stickiness, and sometimes applied duration can be found with the tech sheet on the tape. hours to days and even months with some tapes.

The Flite Streak above had tape on it for over two weeks in places and I never had an issue. In fact, the build someplace, I mention how long the tape was in place.

If pulling tape removes paint from another layer, "something" was not done correctly.

Remember, my living was airbrush and paint. If in doubt, read the can or call tech.

I read my aerosol cans all the time.

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2022, 01:29:05 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet link=topic=61382.msg635102#msg635102 date=16494445
If pulling tape removes paint from another layer, "something" was not done correctly.
[/quote

Not necessarily, Charles.
For example, some (or most, actually) paint systems reach their full strength only after the clear coat. Modern 2-layer system car paints have almost no mechanical or chemical resistance before they polymerise together with the 2-component acrylic topcoat. Even with simpler systems, especially metallics are known for bad adhesion. I use only 2-component polyurethane colours, they are more or less the strongest paints you can get, but as wet-on-wet is out of the question, the paint cures completely between coats and I have to be super-careful with masking films and tapes. it's the clear coat that finally binds everything tightly together.
Yes you clearly do have some artistic eye, but the rest of the finishing quality is not really at the level what we are talking about in here. And as you say, you use spray cans, they are made for kind of easy finishes and tend to stick well to each others. L

Avaiojet · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2022, 02:33:34 PM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on April 08, 2022, 01:29:05 PM

[quote author=Avaiojet link=topic=61382.msg635102#msg635102 date=16494445
If pulling tape removes paint from another layer, "something" was not done correctly.

Not necessarily, Charles.
For example, some (or most, actually) paint systems reach their full strength only after the clear coat. Modern 2-layer system car paints have almost no mechanical or chemical resistance before they polymerise together with the 2-component acrylic topcoat. Even with simpler systems, especially metallics are known for bad adhesion. I use only 2-component polyurethane colours, they are more or less the strongest paints you can get, but as wet-on-wet is out of the question, the paint cures completely between coats and I have to be super-careful with masking films and tapes. it's the clear coat that finally binds everything tightly together.
Yes you clearly do have some artistic eye, but the rest of the finishing quality is not really at the level what we are talking about in here. And as you say, you use spray cans, they are made for kind of easy finishes and tend to stick well to each others. L

I used professional spray equipment all my life to make a living. I certainly know the value of the clear top coat, especially with a two part automotive clear.

I've only been pushing this since the first day I arrived in the Stuka Stunt forum.

I see no advantage in using a two part mix for base colors. Costly.

I said once before modelers are looking for the Holy Grail in finishing products.

I used the same system in modeling R/C for over 25 years. Simple, automotive base coat and two part clears.

I switched to aerosol cans because I was sick and tired working with compressors and caned paint products which have to be mixed. Did this just about every day, my entire working career, BTW. I had enough of it.

Paint is designed to "stick." if mistakes aren't made in prep and application. I could list these mistakes but it's pointless.

I never painted a model with an aerosol can until Rusty, what a guy, convinced me to do it.

I don't care what my models weigh and I've never done weight tests with any paints. Try a finish using aerosol can colors and the normal two part clear. See if there's a considerable difference.

I said once, "A thousand modelers have a thousand ways in finishing their models." nothing wrong with this.

Charles

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2022, 04:42:27 PM »

I see where this is leading to, so it’s kind of hopeless to even try.
All I can advice, is that try to fly your model a little, let’s say 1000 flights for starters.
After that, we can compare our finishes again😂.
And if you say that you don’t care, then this is not your place. L

Avaiojet · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2022, 06:15:03 PM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on April 08, 2022, 04:42:27 PM

I see where this is leading to, so it’s kind of hopeless to even try.
All I can advice, is that try to fly your model a little, let’s say 1000 flights for starters.
After that, we can compare our finishes again😂.
And if you say that you don’t care, then this is not your place. L

My finish will be like yours. As you said, " it's the clear coat that finally binds everything tightly together."

I never looked at it that way. I've always looked at the clear coat as a way to protect what's under it. And there's all kinds of paint which can be applied then cleared. A long list.

You people talk to me like I never flew a model, or learned my painting abilities "on line."

Why is that?

FYI. I have better things to do with my time. I look at those 1000 hours as a waste of life. I don't even understand it but I give it no thought.

However, have you ever read me degrading anyone for their choice of "what they should or should not do with their lives?"

Someone else's life and how they spend that life, is no one else's business.

Giving people freedom to choose and live 101. You don't learn this from a book. You understand this and practice this or you don't.

Wife and I spent three hours at the stable today. She has a horse. Great time with wonderful people.

Do you think I would trade today off or give it up to go flying?

What do you think we're doing tomorrow and Sunday.

Enjoying our God given right to do whatever we please.

Charles

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2022, 10:06:49 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on April 08, 2022, 06:15:03 PM

My finish will be like yours. As you said, " it's the clear coat that finally binds everything tightly together."

I never looked at it that way. I've always looked at the clear coat as a way to protect what's under it. And there's all kinds of paint which can be applied then cleared. A long list.

You people talk to me like I never flew a model, or learned my painting abilities "on line."

Why is that?

FYI. I have better things to do with my time. I look at those 1000 hours as a waste of life. I don't even understand it but I give it no thought.

However, have you ever read me degrading anyone for their choice of "what they should or should not do with their lives?"

Someone else's life and how they spend that life, is no one else's business.

Giving people freedom to choose and live 101. You don't learn this from a book. You understand this and practice this or you don't.

Wife and I spent three hours at the stable today. She has a horse. Great time with wonderful people.

Do you think I would trade today off or give it up to go flying?

What do you think we're doing tomorrow and Sunday.

Enjoying our God given right to do whatever we please.

Charles

Why don't you find something else to do with the time you spend antagonizing us with this drivel?? If you have so many other more important things to do, why do you waste your time, our time and band width on the forum with so much crap that can't be verified? You must be at least 120 years old because you have made claims to have been a professional "This" or "That" or "The Other" for 40 years each! No one knows who you are, no evident track record or reputation, so you have no credibility with anyone here that does. Do like Lauri suggests and fly some of these creations and see just how they hold up. You have to remember, that you are addressing people on here with VASTLY more experience, extensive credibility and reputations that are common knowledge, than the miniscule claims and pirated pictures that you put up on here. You might be fooling a few people here but not all of us.

Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Avaiojet · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2022, 01:29:00 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on April 09, 2022, 10:06:49 AM

Why don't you find something else to do with the time you spend antagonizing us with this drivel?? If you have so many other more important things to do, why do you waste your time, our time and band width on the forum with so much crap that can't be verified? You must be at least 120 years old because you have made claims to have been a professional "This" or "That" or "The Other" for 40 years each! No one knows who you are, no evident track record or reputation, so you have no credibility with anyone here that does. Do like Lauri suggests and fly some of these creations and see just how they hold up. You have to remember, that you are addressing people on here with VASTLY more experience, extensive credibility and reputations that are common knowledge, than the miniscule claims and pirated pictures that you put up on here. You might be fooling a few people here but not all of us.

Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Dan,

You're always so kind with your replies. Only thing I'm missing is being part of the Swamp. "Pirated pictures?" Why would I use a pirated picture which is of lesser quality than what I do?

Do you have a file on the pirated pictures I Post? I'd be interested in seeing them.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2022, 02:28:06 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on April 09, 2022, 01:29:00 PM

Dan,

You're always so kind with your replies. Only thing I'm missing is being part of the Swamp. "Pirated pictures?" Why would I use a pirated picture which is of lesser quality than what I do?

Do you have a file on the pirated pictures I Post? I'd be interested in seeing them.

You're just a legend in your own mind! You are just so full of it! And yourself! What else should you be doing other than pestering people on the computer? Shouldn't you be chasing the horse or something? Better yet, why not go flying instead playing on the computer? Prove out one or two of those creations of yours!

Avaiojet · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2022, 02:59:05 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on April 09, 2022, 02:28:06 PM

You're just a legend in your own mind! You are just so full of it! And yourself! What else should you be doing other than pestering people on the computer? Shouldn't you be chasing the horse or something? Better yet, why not go flying instead playing on the computer? Prove out one or two of those creations of yours!

Dan,

You would probably get much more from me if you were kind. Same for many others.

Give it a try.

Charles

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #15 on:** April 09, 2022, 04:11:24 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on April 09, 2022, 02:59:05 PM

Dan,

You would probably get much more from me if you were kind. Same for many others.

Give it a try.

Charles

You have absolutely nothing to offer! How does anyone get through to you? You never fly anything. Nothing is ever proven or put to the test! How would you know anything works?? You may as well go play with your ponies.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2022, 05:34:34 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on April 09, 2022, 04:11:24 PM

You have absolutely nothing to offer! How does anyone get through to you? You never fly anything. Nothing is ever proven or put to the test! How would you know anything works?? You may as well go play with your ponies.

Dan,

By now I find it hard to believe there's modelers out there believing that a completely finished model, front row quality, has to be flown to become a product of value and performance, especially if the finish is done correctly using the best products. You should try building.
Ever think of being a Pastor? You've been preaching the same baloney for years. No one believes your replies to me. These people aren't dumb.

BTW. Where's that kindness I asked for?

OH, and my wife's "pony," we only have one horse at the moment. The wife paid 10K for this great, animal, "Second Chance," 14 years ago. And we stole the animal. Right place at the right time. I'm surprised you don't know horses?

Charles

Dan Berry · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2022, 07:10:33 PM »

Well, I asked the moderator to help out last night because I knew that if avojet kept up his bullshit that I would boil over.
I asked. Politely.

My original post asked a specific question about a very specific product and problem.
I didn't ask what the best stuff was. I didn't ask what anyone else used. I mentioned that I have tape on a plane. It will need to be removed and I don't care to repaint the plane. Pointedly, I'm not removing this paint and repainting. I didn't ask to see anyone's planes and their paint jobs. I didn' ask for four posts of repetitious bullshit that I've seen from charles for the last five years. I didn't ask to see a picture of a 34 ounce Flight Streak that has never been flown. I didn't ask for pointers on how to paint. I didn't ask if my choice of paint was good one. I asked if some heat from a hair dryer or heat gun would let me get the tape off the plane.

Will Hinton, thank you for giving me a direct answer.

I am curious as to why the moderator allows these threads to devolve into the dumpster fires that frankly just seem inevitable.

Charles, we have had genial interactions in the past. Why in the @#$% do you constantly do what you do? Your sidetracking and hijacking of threads is as annoying as a fart in an elevator is to a dwarf.

Moderator ..... if you don't care to police the place give me the juice. I'll do it.

I'm tired tonight. I've been in a kitchen preparing a Palm Sunday meal for 150 people. After I finish cooking and serving tomorrow I'll rest up and write a strongly worded message about how I really feel about this.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #18 on:** April 10, 2022, 07:57:41 AM »

Quote from: Dan Berry on April 09, 2022, 07:10:33 PM

Well, I asked the moderator to help out last night because I knew that if avojet kept up his bullshit that I would boil over.
I asked. Politely.

My original post asked a specific question about a very specific product and problem.
I didn't ask what the best stuff was. I didn't ask what anyone else used. I mentioned that I have tape on a plane. It will need to be removed and I don't care to repaint the plane. Pointedly, I'm not removing this paint and repainting. I didn't ask to see anyone's planes and their paint jobs. I didn' ask for four posts of repetitious bullshit that I've seen from charles for the last five years. I didn't ask to see a picture of a 34 ounce Flight Streak that has never been flown. I didn't ask for pointers on how to paint. I didn't ask if my choice of paint was good one. I asked if some heat from a hair dryer or heat gun would let me get the tape off the plane.

Will Hinton, thank you for giving me a direct answer.

I am curious as to why the moderator allows these threads to devolve into the dumpster fires that frankly just seem inevitable.

Charles, we have had genial interactions in the past. Why in the @#$% do you constantly do what you do? Your sidetracking and hijacking of threads is as annoying as a fart in an elevator is to a dwarf.

Moderator ..... if you don't care to police the place give me the juice. I'll do it.

I'm tired tonight. I've been in a kitchen preparing a Palm Sunday meal for 150 people. After I finish cooking and serving tomorrow I'll rest up and write a strongly worded message about how I really feel about this.

Dan,

I'm sorry you feel this way. However, like always, I've never been the one to first attack anyone who replies with advice, good or not.

I can't stop or change what some post about Avaiojet. That's the problem, it's not my replies.

I stand behind everything I mentioned about pulling tape and the issues some have with it.

Tape is last. Everything before this has to be done with due diligence. As far as the Flight Streak, it is an excellent example of how proper application of finishing products is important, long before tape is applied.

BTW. I'm the only one who posted a photo example of a model which had the use of extreme masking tap, plastic tape and large paint mask areas. Evidence actually which backs up my advice.

In the future, I'll stat out of your Threads.

Best of luck.

Charles

RC Storick · « **Reply #19 on:** April 10, 2022, 08:39:54 AM »

No matter what anyone says Don't use heat- Use heat. It doesn't matter, use what works for you. I try everything and keep using the things that work.

mccoy40 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2022, 02:16:29 PM »

Quote from: Dan Berry on April 07, 2022, 07:13:17 PM

A quick question
I am using the supergalactic plastic masking tape from 3M.
Paint is Nason basecoat.
I have started to lay out a simple scheme. I had to remove a mistake and have lifted some basecoat. I'll need to do a fix. Oh goody!
Do I need to use a hair dryer to soften the adhesive on the tape when pulling?
Yes, I know how to pull tape.

Hi is the Supergalactic plastic masking tape from #M the same as their #M vinyl tape 471?

I'll be using this for Dope and krylon and rustoleum paint.

Thanks for the help and sorry if I redirect the thread.

Dan Berry · « **Reply #21 on:** April 25, 2022, 09:44:17 PM »

Quote from: mccoy40 on April 25, 2022, 02:16:29 PM

Hi is the Supergalactic plastic masking tape from #M the same as their #M vinyl tape 471?

I'll be using this for Dope and krylon and rustoleum paint.

Thanks for the help and sorry if I redirect the thread.

To the best of my knowledge yes.
I don’t know the item number but it’s the vinyl masking tape from 3M. Retails about 16 clams a roll.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #22 on:** April 26, 2022, 09:59:41 AM »

Quote from: mccoy40 on April 25, 2022, 02:16:29 PM

Hi is the Supergalactic plastic masking tape from #M the same as their #M vinyl tape 471?

I'll be using this for Dope and krylon and rustoleum paint.

Thanks for the help and sorry if I redirect the thread.

Supergalactic plastic masking tape from 3M? I have no idea what that is? Maybe a broad brush for marketing?

What I do know, is what has worked well for me, over many years. I only use two plastic tapes for painted edge work on model airplanes.

The blue 471, in 1/8 and 1/4 inch widths and the green 218, in 3/16 and 1/4 inch widths.

If the store doesn't have this, I leave. I won't buy anything else.

I hope you're using the products you mentioned in this order.

Clear dope, primer, Krylon color and a two part auto clear, for you're last coat or two.

Yes, I did leave out Rustoleum didn't I. I also never spray a coat of clear to seal the edge of the tape.

And there's plenty of stuff to talk about well before this stuff is applied and during the process.

Good luck,

Charles

mccoy40 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 26, 2022, 10:37:36 AM »

Thanks all ! Now I know what to use for masking tape.

Dan Berry · « **Reply #24 on:** April 26, 2022, 07:16:05 PM »

Quote from: mccoy40 on April 25, 2022, 02:16:29 PM

Hi is the Supergalactic plastic masking tape from #M the same as their #M vinyl tape 471?

I'll be using this for Dope and krylon and rustoleum paint.

Thanks for the help and sorry if I redirect the thread.

I found the packaging. It is the 471 stuff.
And someone is apparently a liar.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #25 on:** April 27, 2022, 02:15:06 PM »

I have a dozen or more of these. A buddy and myself would buy a case and split the cost.

Back then we would use so much of this stuff. Almost every day.

Charles

Dan Berry · « **Reply #26 on:** April 27, 2022, 06:02:54 PM »

Quote from: mccoy40 on April 26, 2022, 10:37:36 AM

Thanks all ! Now I know what to use for masking tape.

Hey Joe. My mistake... I've been calling it blue and 3M calls it violet. My buddy Joe told me I didn't have blue tape- he said it was purple.
Purple --- violet.
Tomato --- tomatillo.
Sorry for the confusion.

mccoy40 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 28, 2022, 11:29:13 AM »

Dan,

No problem at all.

Charles,

Thanks for the photo of the tape packaging - it helps.

Joe

Avaiojet · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2022, 03:40:20 PM »

Quote from: mccoy40 on April 28, 2022, 11:29:13 AM

Dan,

No problem at all.

Charles,

Thanks for the photo of the tape packaging - it helps.

Joe

Joe,

This is one of those products where they got ya. Spend the extra money.

Never lay the tape roll down on anything randomly. Place it in a saucer or small dish. You must keep the edges clean. Place the roll in a plastic bag. Blue in one bag and green in another bag. Organize your tape. Sure it's "only tape." Well it isn't just "only tape."

It's the material you're going to use for that excellent painted edge.

By the time you're ready for tape, your bench should be really cleaned and covered with doctor's paper anyway.

Last, always cut the tape with scissors, a nice square edge. Especially wider masking tapes.

Good luck.

Charles