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Author Topic: Letters and number borders  (Read 1329 times)

Offline Mike Haverly

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Letters and number borders
« on: February 16, 2012, 12:01:04 PM »
    On the open forum there is a comment regarding numbers and letters appearing to be "unfinished looking" without a border around them.  I decided to try it on my new project.  If you're using vinyl stickers or water slide decals you can pretty much order what you want or even print them in many cases.  I prefer paint.  
    Like anything else, there are many different ways to do it.  You  can go to a sign shop and order stencils or you can paint and back mask until you are satisfied.  Sign shops usually will give you what you want, if you know what it is exactly.  Most shops around here have a minimum charge and go from there.  
    In November of 2011 I bought a vinyl cutter and finally have it working pretty well.  It still a lot of work but you can get any "look" you want.  The pictures should spell it out.  I know why so many people don't do it.  It is quite a lot of trouble.
Mike

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 12:37:33 PM »
   On the open forum there is a comment regarding numbers and letters appearing to be "unfinished looking" without a border around them.  I decided to try it on my new project.  If you're using vinyl stickers or water slide decals you can pretty much order what you want or even print them in many cases.  I prefer paint.  
    Like anything else, there are many different ways to do it.  You  can go to a sign shop and order stencils or you can paint and back mask until you are satisfied.  Sign shops usually will give you what you want, if you know what it is exactly.  Most shops around here have a minimum charge and go from there.  
    In November of 2011 I bought a vinyl cutter and finally have it working pretty well.  It still a lot of work but you can get any "look" you want.  The pictures should spell it out.  I know why so many people don't do it.  It is quite a lot of trouble.

Mike,

Great job and it looks good!

Hang in there, you'll get used to it! Because it really isn't a lot of trouble.

I send out "Masks" all the time with outlined letters to guys that have never applied vinyl masks. "Register" isn't an issue. "Bleed" could be, but the mask takes care of that.

By the way, A "Stencil" is something entirely different than "Masks."

Charles
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Offline Mike Haverly

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 01:31:57 PM »


By the way, A "Stencil" is something entirely different than "Masks."

Charles

I think I understand the difference.  Could you explain?  You are right, this is a mask.
Mike

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 08:40:25 AM »
I think I understand the difference.  Could you explain?  You are right, this is a mask.

Mike,

Similar to a mask, but not really.

A stencil is made in such a way as to hold all letters together without the need of "transfer paper."

Some can be used repeatedly for a long period of time. Some can be cleaned to remove paint buildup.

Material is needed to hold the inside of letters together like the "A", "B", "P," etc. For this to happen, you see separations in the painted stroke.

There's a stencil Font. "Some" lettering with this Font was used on military aircraft for numbered markings.

A good example is on the sides of shipping crates.

A worker would place the stencil, generally made of a thin stiff mylar or coated cardboard, against the surface and with an aerosol can or spray guy, apply paint.

Take the stencil away and go to the next crate.

Charles

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 06:48:54 PM »
   On the open forum there is a comment regarding numbers and letters appearing to be "unfinished looking" without a border around them.  I decided to try it on my new project.  If you're using vinyl stickers or water slide decals you can pretty much order what you want or even print them in many cases.  I prefer paint.  
    Like anything else, there are many different ways to do it.  You  can go to a sign shop and order stencils or you can paint and back mask until you are satisfied.  Sign shops usually will give you what you want, if you know what it is exactly.  Most shops around here have a minimum charge and go from there.  
    In November of 2011 I bought a vinyl cutter and finally have it working pretty well.  It still a lot of work but you can get any "look" you want.  The pictures should spell it out.  I know why so many people don't do it.  It is quite a lot of trouble.

Hi Mike,

I like it and personally think the numbers or letters look more "finished" when they are outlined.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM



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Offline Mike Haverly

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 10:00:38 AM »
Bill,

I like it better too, I was trying to point out that unless you make the plans to to do this or have easy access to paint masks, it can be difficult.  I bought the vinyl cutter because I change my mind so much in the middle of a project I don't like having to go back and forth to the sign shop, and its kinda fun.  It is a very inexpensive cutter and I quickly found out that the supplied software was limited.  I purchased Corel, then discovered my learning curve on that was pretty steep.  Like everything else it gets easier every time.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 10:28:55 AM by Mike Haverly »
Mike

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 11:07:12 AM »
I often cut out tissue numbers to put on clear silk.  There was an Aeromodeller article which advocated cutting the numbers out two at a time using two colors of tissue, then offsetting the numbers so one made a 'shadow' for the other.  I've not tried it

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 04:35:43 PM »
Bill,

I like it better too, I was trying to point out that unless you make the plans to to do this or have easy access to paint masks, it can be difficult.  I bought the vinyl cutter because I change my mind so much in the middle of a project I don't like having to go back and forth to the sign shop, and its kinda fun.  It is a very inexpensive cutter and I quickly found out that the supplied software was limited.  I purchased Corel, then discovered my learning curve on that was pretty steep.  Like everything else it gets easier every time.

Hi Mike,

I use corel for decal making (for plastics, especially).  Being vector based the images are much clearer if enlarged or shrunk from the original size you draw them.  It takes some time to get familiar with everything you can do, but it is worth it.

Bill



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Offline Mike Haverly

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 05:52:36 PM »
 Bill,

   Last year I made some decals by making the designs on Corel and saving them as a PDF.  The local Office Depot will will make copies on their color laser printer very reasonably.  The laser water slide decal material is much better IMO.  I did some like that for my Chizler and my last electric model.

     My cutter won't cut any font smaller than 1/2 inch.  I haven't tried it yet, but I think if I convert the font to "curves" in Corel I might be able to go a little smaller.  This one here is about .6 just because it looked a little better at that size.
Mike

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 08:56:26 PM »
I always convert to curves, it was just what I was told to do by some really good decal art guys.

Bill
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Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 06:25:00 PM »
The issue is the blade on the cutter - and in some cases the cutter itself. Ideally you need a cutter which has variable speed - set it to the slowest setting.

A really high grade style cutting blade will cost you over $1,000 - that will cut down to 8mm letters, much smaller than that is difficult.

If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 06:30:27 PM »
My cutter / plotter will cut .25" letters easily, but only depending on Font choice.

I have cut .18" in a Vaga Round Font.

Still difficult.

Charles

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Mike Haverly

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 08:24:40 PM »
The issue is the blade on the cutter - and in some cases the cutter itself. Ideally you need a cutter which has variable speed - set it to the slowest setting.

Although very inexpensive, my cutter has variable speed and pressure adjustments.  I don't think the issue is the blade.  When I first bought the machine, I used the software that came with it and it is very limited.  I could make any size font but if under 1/2 inch it would give a "out of range" message as soon as I sent it to the plotter/cutter.  Also, I couldn't manipulate the font very much.  By doing all the work in Corel and changing everything to "curves" the cutter software just looks at it like another "object" and not font. I think a bigger problem would be paint adhesion on very small print.  Dope doesn't stick to the vinyl mask so getting a clean break could be a problem.  I know I'm preaching to the choir here.
Mike

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2012, 07:02:05 AM »
Although very inexpensive, my cutter has variable speed and pressure adjustments.  I don't think the issue is the blade.  When I first bought the machine, I used the software that came with it and it is very limited.  I could make any size font but if under 1/2 inch it would give a "out of range" message as soon as I sent it to the plotter/cutter.  Also, I couldn't manipulate the font very much.  By doing all the work in Corel and changing everything to "curves" the cutter software just looks at it like another "object" and not font. I think a bigger problem would be paint adhesion on very small print.  Dope doesn't stick to the vinyl mask so getting a clean break could be a problem.  I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

Mike,

I don't think you're preaching to the choir at all. I have over 40 years in signs, art and graphics, and I'm still learning.

I think what you did above looks great. Especially finishing with the outline to frame the letter.

You say dope doesn't stick to our masking material? Scratch it up with a 3M pad "before" you do your cut. This might help.

 I mentioned this in an Airbrush Thread, you could always lay down a coat of clear for a base to do your delicate work on. If you screw up, simply wash it away, then start again. No damage to the surface.

In the middle 80's when I, and everyone else, was doing pictorials on custom vans and motorcycles, ALL of us Airbrush guys would clear in stages to protect the work.

In some cases you would have to especially if more masking was done over thin airbrushing. Pull a mask and you could pull paint. The clear would prevent this.

Go to it!

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 07:19:00 PM »
If you really want fine detail.

Use a 60 degree blade made from carbide steel.



If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 10:45:05 PM »
 Thanks for the pics and explanation of what I was pointing out in the other thread Mike. I realize these things are all down to an individuals personal preferences and abilities. It also depends on the model and type of lettering being used too. In an example like you're showing here with the faded multi color lettering, I feel it definitely looks much better with the border. That extra detail is all I was trying to point out. Yes it's more work, but it's those extra efforts that usually separate the front row from the rest, even on a regular Sunday at the local flying field. y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline don Burke

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Re: Letters and number borders
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 10:40:46 AM »
I have a 12" cutter from US CUTTER, relatively inexpensive.  It came with "Sign Blazer" software.  Really easy to use, every program has it's learning curve, this one was pretty easy to understand.  The most tedious thing is "weeding" the cut pattern without messing up what you want to keep!
don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA


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