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Author Topic: Iron-on finish newbie  (Read 1407 times)

Online Dave Moritz

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Iron-on finish newbie
« on: January 21, 2022, 02:25:05 PM »
My first serious attempt at this and am using Ultracote. The instructional videos make it look easy, but man-o-man is it a challenge! Let me see if I got this right- if you want it to stick, you apply heat; if you want it to unstick, you apply heat; if you want it to stretch, you apply heat; and if you want it to shrink, you apply heat.  So let it be written, so let it be done. Ha!

Dave Mo…
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Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2022, 04:25:49 PM »
Hi Dave, it's exciting to see all the new interest. There is a lot to be caught, rather than taught. Watching a good video is worth much more than reading directions. Make sure you have an iron and a gun, and a glove isn't a bad idea.
But, the sequence really is important. What plane are you building?

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2022, 05:17:17 PM »
Hi Dave, it's exciting to see all the new interest. There is a lot to be caught, rather than taught. Watching a good video is worth much more than reading directions. Make sure you have an iron and a gun, and a glove isn't a bad idea.
But, the sequence really is important. What plane are you building?
One tip - these iron on's don't like sealed wood.  A coat, maybe 2 but you need super smooth dust free "raw" balsa if you want it to stay stuck.  The tip - VACUME before you apply.  Glue stuck to balsa dust doesn't last long.

Ken
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2022, 09:37:52 PM »
I'm trying to wrap my head around this (no pun intended)...My experience has been only dope and tissue. Please bear with me.

So I have an iron, and I have a saran wrap (or whatever we call the iron-on wrapper) with glue on it. Well, "Some"-Kote, SLC,.etc.

But the wood is supposed to be somewhat porous but smooth and dust free so the glue seeps in a bit?

And what is Stix-it for? I have a can of that, but no mention of additional adhesive for the glue-backed wrappers.
Or is Stix-it for the non-adhesive backed sorta-woven synthetic coverings? I'm trying to understand the tools for the job because I have never used them.

I actually thought the wood should be sealed and smooth, and Stix-it was for glueless coverings no matter what they are...even tissue/silkspan if so inclined.

Thanks for sticking through this with me.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2022, 11:09:58 PM »
One thing that rarely gets passed along is that MonoKote is a great base for paint.  I learned that from a real MonoKote expert.  Everything on this plane, including the fuselage and wheel pants is white MonoKote and Rustoleum.  It is super easy to mask and the tape never pulls.  Before and after on my latest. 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 11:27:07 PM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2022, 07:10:37 AM »
My first serious attempt at this and am using Ultracote. The instructional videos make it look easy, but man-o-man is it a challenge! Let me see if I got this right- if you want it to stick, you apply heat; if you want it to unstick, you apply heat; if you want it to stretch, you apply heat; and if you want it to shrink, you apply heat.  So let it be written, so let it be done. Ha!

Dave Mo…

Dave, I never thought about it this way, but you are right, just about everything you do with Ultra/Mono/Other-cote involves heat.  There is one more ingredient: pull.  Once the piece is tacked in place in a strategic place, you want to take out as much slack as possible, instead of relying on heat to do all the shrinking. 
It is impossible to teach someone how to cover well in one forum post, so I recommend a couple of books that helped me tremendously; they are out of print by now but can be typically found on eBay and other sources:
"Covering RC Airplanes" by Faye Stilley; published by Model Airplane News
"Tom's techniques" by Tom Ingram and Harry Higley; published by Harry B. Higley and sons


Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2022, 08:29:14 AM »
Beware of over stretching.  Monokote, especially white will stretch the covering more than the color in it leaving thin spots.  THe good news is that Rustoleum bright white matches and you can touch it up.  You can also clear coat over decals.

Ken
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2022, 11:20:50 AM »
Dave,
One of the things I like to do is apply one coat of 40/60 thinner/dope to the wood surfaces, then sand smooth, dust off and tac rag off the surface. I apply one coat of "Balsarite for film" on the surfaces to be film covered. Use the iron (with a sock on it) to apply the film.

Once you have it in place bump up the iron temp 20 degs and start shrinking, use a soft glove (MonoKoto mit) to smoothly rub the film smooth on the surface. To seal the edges exposed to fuel (around the nose) I have use KBS Diamond Clear Aerosol, put on only two coats not too heavy.

I have seen several ships that were done in Koto that were so well done you could not tell it was not paint. Most important thing is surface prep, must be totally smooth before the Koto goes on to get a smooth final surface finish.

Best,    DennisT

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2022, 11:32:03 AM »
My first serious attempt at this and am using Ultracote. The instructional videos make it look easy, but man-o-man is it a challenge! Let me see if I got this right- if you want it to stick, you apply heat; if you want it to unstick, you apply heat; if you want it to stretch, you apply heat; and if you want it to shrink, you apply heat.  So let it be written, so let it be done. Ha!

Dave Mo…

Pretty much, yes.  It's common for a covering to be designed so that the glue melts at a lower temperature than the covering shrinks, so on flat or simply-curved surfaces you want to stick it on at that temperature, then shrink it later.

It only stretches if you heat it up to it's "shrink" temperature and pull on it -- and it'll stretch in the direction you're pulling while shrinking in the other.  This is basically the trick for getting covering to go around a complex curvature like a wingtip or cowling.

This is in pretty much all the books & videos, but you almost always use an iron to stick it down and a heat gun to shrink it.  There's good exceptions to that rule in both directions, but if you're not sure what to do -- stick it down with an iron, shrink it with a gun.

There is a learning curve -- don't be discouraged if your first attempts are wrinkled-up messes.  You need to get a feel for the material, and if you switch brands you need to get a feel for that one (eventually you learn how to get that feel pretty darn quick, which is good if you're working with a hoard of swap-meet MysteryCote).

I almost always cover over bare balsa, except I've built a lot of profiles with the fuselage finished in silkspan or fiberglass using Minwax polycrylic to about an inch out on the wings, then white Rustoleum, then cover the wings with white 'coat and paint on trim.

It's versatile stuff.  Way easier than silkspan & dope to get a good functional medium-good finish, probably harder to get a 20-point finish (folks will dispute this -- hence my "probably").  Just like silkspan & dope you have to understand and respect the medium if you want to get the best out of it.
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2022, 11:41:33 AM »
Thanks MM.

All,
I hate to barge in like this, but I do think these side-bar questions help add depth to the conversation....

So now I know heat is everything. I've been gifted a plane finished in "some"coat. It has air time (not much), but a few edges are starting to delaminate/lift.
Can I effectively attempt a "de-oil" cycle, apply Stix-It to the underlying substrate (more "X" coat and a bit of balsa), and re-iron the loose edges down?  The lifting is on the LE where the top wing surface overlays/wraps under the LE onto the bottom wing surface. I do have some SLC, so I could easily cut a 2" strip to cover from root to tip.

The plane is just too beautiful to start monkeying around on as a blind experiment. I know...almost like planning serious illness treatment without a consult.

Thanks for all y'all's insight.

Offline BillP

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2022, 06:33:38 AM »
It just takes a little practice to learn the techniques that work for you. Different brands don't always react at the same heat so you have to watch heat settings carefully. I mark my iron heat range dial for different coverings and generally don't seal the wood except where it has to overlap edges of dope.  Also, I use the iron for the entire process as the heat gun technique for shrinking wasn't user friendly to me. Keep plugging at it and expect a few melt throughs in the learning process. When wingtips are mastered you have pretty much arrived.
Bill P.

Online Paul Smith

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2022, 09:03:09 AM »
The thing about iron-on is that heat BOTH sticks it and shrinks it.

So sneak up on it with low heat and use just enough to stick it without shrinking very much.  This will minimize wrinkles.

I do opposite corners, then the other two corners, then the outline, then the ribs.

Get a heat gun from Home Depot, Harbor or a hardware store for the shrinking. 

Use four pieces of plastic for the four surfaces. Wrap-around is almost sure to cause wrinkles.

Do the tips first with small pieces.

Paul Smith

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2022, 09:27:14 AM »
Great Thread,

Not much more I can say actually. It was mentioned, Post #3, about the material sticking to porous balsa. Every time I've done a "wrap" I made sure the covering "overlapped."

I learned from others. We would cover the LE and TE's of all control surfaces edges along the hinge line, including the ailerons. This was R/C then. Control surfaces went on last. Electric there would be no issue I'm guessing, just tuck the material in? You can get some great results using iron on materials. Takes patents.

Here's the last model I covered with iron on material. Pica, 1/5 Waco.

Charles
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2022, 09:49:04 AM »
Just some parting thoughts. Nobody has mentioned bubbles.  When covering large areas of balsa, you are going to get bubbles.  If you can work them to a seam with an iron great, but many, especially where you have film over film, you can't.  Avoiding them takes practice.  If your structure is not sealed to much they will collapse under heat if your iron/gun is hot enough to shrink.  If they just won't go away get a sewing pin, not the fat T pins used for construction but one of those really thin sewing pins and put a few very small pin holes in the center of the bubble.  Use an Iron to gently go over the area and the bubble will disappear as will the pin holes.  Be careful if you are using contest balsa, the iron will make indents really easily.  Try and learn to use a gun and glove to rub with (it will be HOT and it takes three hands).   

There are three tools you will need if you are committing to film finishes.  An Iron (with boot), a sealing iron (tiny tip looks like a snow ski) and a heat gun.  Each has it's place in the process.

Paul has an important point.  Do not try and do the wing and tip with the same piece at first, or for that matter ever.  Sometimes you can get away with it, but it is much simpler if you do the tip first.  You can shrink out some really large wrinkles but not enough to get the one created where the tip joins the wing without trimming.  I do the bottom of the tip first and pull the covering as far onto the top I can, at least past center.  That way the seams are all on the bottom.  Same with the full wing plus it keeps the top layer seam out of the airflow.

Trimming is an acquired skill.  I will not offer any advice on that because after 40+ years of using this stuff I have yet to master it.  You have to cut the covering before sealing the seam and getting that straight has illuded me.  I use the old fashion single edge razors blades.  MonoKote will dull a blade really fast, and you need to change them frequently.  Shaving razors hold their edge longer.  If you are going to use film, start buying blades in bulk.

Ken
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Online Dave Moritz

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2022, 12:52:38 PM »
Gents: Your generosity is again showing! Been at this for a while so I'm not too surprised, but I can't offer enough gratitude to you all.

David - I'm building a SIG Skyray, and am following Brett's recommendations to a T, thus the Ultracote.

Ken - So far I've had good luck with highly-sanded bare wood followed up with tack cloth. Pin holes for bubbles sound like just the ticket. And correct, this stuff just eats up the blades.

Motorman - It took several trials on scrap, but I found the lowest heat setting for stickiness. Wow, does that ever make a difference!

Mike - I'm kind of a book-learning sort of guy, so glad to see that a couple of titles are still out there.

Dennis - I will try the 20-degree heat bump for shrinking before trying the heat gun. Not sure if there might be a gremlin around, but my new Hangar 9 iron has a habit of dialing up the heat all by itself. Could be I'm just bumping it during work, or maybe there's some kind of 60-cycle harmonic going on in the rheostat. Weird.

Tim - Aha, the "trick" as you stated it knocked a boatload of scales from my eyes. One less contradiction bites the dust! So I take it on your profiles that you extend the fuselage surface treatment out one inch onto the wings? For strength or visual appeal? (Would look kind of nifty, and make fillets easier to incorporate.)

Bill - Good on the heat settings, but will have to cut a hole in the iron's sock.

Paul - I've tried other ways of tacking with very mixed results. Will give great your corner-to-corner first step a try. I never thought of adhering the ribs on open bays, perhaps expecting the shrink heat to do that.

Charles - Per usual, a most beautiful model!

Many thanks again, fine amigos. I'll now sally forth with a sharper lance if not #11 blades.

Dave Mo...





It’s a very strange world we live in, Master Jack.” (4 Jacks and a Jill)

Offline Robert Whitley

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2022, 11:16:42 PM »
Your Hangar9 iron acting up may not be unusual.
Mine quit working after covering no more than six models.
It seems that the rheostat may have failed. Quite disappointing.

Online Dave Moritz

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Re: Iron-on finish newbie
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2022, 08:31:42 AM »
Bob:

Appreciate the heads up. I just determined that mine automatically does a bump up in temperature whenever I set it down on the bench. Will fix it with some kind of friction gizmo, carry on and hope for longer life. The non-stick finish is nifty.

Dave...
It’s a very strange world we live in, Master Jack.” (4 Jacks and a Jill)


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