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Author Topic: Balsarite dope and rustoleum  (Read 1813 times)

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« on: May 04, 2015, 01:01:02 PM »
I want to use some bad words right now.. Really. I do.

I am getting ready to film cover the wings of my third Flite Streak.  Balsarite is causing some portions of Rustoleum to peel and ball up.

I need to rewind a little in the story.

I built this flite streak, and acquired some old dope to paint it with.  Due to whatever reason (probably surface prep and incorrect thinners) the dope popped and peeled anywhere I had epoxy.  It also shrank and cracked in flat areas. 

I sanded down the dope on the flite streak very well with 320 grit paper.  The blue dope was still showing some, in some places I did not cut the dope fully away leaving an intact film.  The wing roots had this thicker remaining dope.

I cleaned the airframe  Rebuilt the tail to correct a problem I built in, and stretched it in the process.  I then sprayed Rustoleum grey primer on the prepared airframe.  I was using the "painter's touch x2" which I feel takes way too long to cure to sandable,  (I prefer the professional grey automobile primer from rustoleum)

I applied a coat of white rustoleum for the "canopy" and as a base coat for the other colors.  I allowed the white to cure more than 7 days. 

I applied the balsarite to the LE, TE, wing tips, and of course the wing roots.  Bad language ensues.  But there is a catch!  Certain parts of the airframe, such as the tip weight box, only were painted with primer and white.  These areas did not peel.  The areas that peeled were areas with solid dope coatings.  Interestingly the dope itself did not peel!

I applied paper towel and scrubbed most of the peeled paint away with some balsarite, which worked surprisingly well in most spots.  What is also interesting the blue dope color did not transfer! 

So I hope balsarite can be sanded in a day or two, since the surface is pretty rough and chunky in places.  Most of the problem areas seem worked out so it is just fixing a couple spots.

I find it interesting that the enamel on dope peeled, but the enamel on wood was not effected, which I observed on the first plane I used balsarite on.  I also find it interesting that the balsarite appears to not affect dope, but maybe it softens it in a directly compatible manner since tolulene is a thinner for both dope and balsarite.

I feel more calm now, and hopefully the information saves someone the headache I am having.  I know monokote sticks well to rustoleum without aid.  I am just trying to get the fixed flaps to cover well, which the balsarite aids in.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2015, 10:08:09 AM »
Sanding Balsarite.  That's funny! 

It doesn't sand.

...at least not with the paper I am using.  I heats up and balls up taking all the damaged underlying coating (rustoleum) with it.  So end result is I heated it up with friction then peeled. 

Of course reapplying the balsarite caused more rustoleum to peel.  It is still only peeling where the rustoleum is over dope.  I plastered with paper towel, rubbing it in without moving it around, waited a minute or two, and pulled most of the damage away easy this time.  I think I will not need to sand again.

Phil

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2015, 03:02:56 PM »
Rustoleum and dope are never compatible either nitrate or butyrate dope.
If you put Rustoleum directly over dope it may take years to dry due to the outgassing of the dope. Primer is a barrier but I'd rather not go that route. I generally use water based urethane. primer and then rustoleum and film for the flying surfaces so it is never a problem for me. I have models over 10 years old with Rustoleum finishes that have held up remarkably well. That of course is dependent of the care that you give to the model in keeping it clean and free of grease and fuel
I just finished this Oriental in the manner described

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2015, 10:25:42 PM »
I have used Rustoleum over dope a number of times.  As long as the new finish is the fresh Rustoleum I have not had problems.  The dope has been as young as 2 weeks.  This is the first time I applied something that caused the coatings to part.  Primer didn't make any difference. 

I find it interesting that

Balsarite over Rustoleum on bare wood is fine
and
balsarite over dope is fine
Yet
balsarite over rustoleum over dope makes an epic mess.

I am at the point of swearing off dope entirely.  Rustoleum and stinky polyurethane (not water based) are able to do everything I need, it seems.

I did not like the results I had from water based polyurethane.  Too hard to sand, even with added cornstarch.

Phil

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2015, 10:40:50 AM »
I have used Rustoleum over dope base coats on several planes now with no problems other than getting it too thick with runs.   Need more practice with it.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2015, 11:22:56 AM »
I did not like the results I had from water based polyurethane.  Too hard to sand, even with added cornstarch


Phil,

It usually takes about a day before I sand the water based urethane. It sands easily when allowed to cure.
I would be hesitant to use oil based urethane because of the weight and the difficulty in sanding it.
Allen Brickhaus had written a comprehensive finishing article that was printed in Flying Models. it covered the whole process in an easy to understand format. If possible try and get a copy of the article.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2015, 05:47:47 PM »
Phil,

I converted the New American to electric, it's now the ARGO. There is a Thread about the nose job.

I used Minwax water based Polycrylic on all the fuselage wood. Started with a couple of coats of "Deft" brand, Lacquer Clear Wood Finish, to seal the wood before applying the coats of Polycrylic.

I really like the stuff and will continue to use these products here and there.

Here's the model with both these products on the wood. Primer over the last sanded coat.

Phil, as you said, it is hard, but I sanded using 320 before applying the gray primer.
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline mccoy40

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Re: Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2015, 06:15:15 PM »
The only problem I've ever had with Polyurethane - Water or Oil based is the Lid of the can when I put it back on -

The urethane glues that lid to the can better than Glue!


 %^@ H^^
Joseph Meyer
Philadelphia, PA

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Balsarite dope and rustoleum
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2015, 11:39:27 AM »
Get some canning jars and pour the material into them.   Then when you put the lids on use parchment paper.  It seals the jar and doesn't glue in place.   
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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