Author Topic: Front-Row Finish Tips from the Jive Combat Team (Read 10669 times)

Howard Rush · « **on:** May 06, 2012, 08:03:51 PM »

Tip 1. Don't have cleaning solvent and thinner in the same size cans on your bench.

Tip 2. If you are wiping your plane with cleaning solvent and it feels unusually sticky, check to see what's really on the rag.

I was just reminded of these important finishing facts ten minutes ago.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2012, 08:15:04 PM »

Only you, Howard. Only you.

Hope it wasn't the new one.

Bootlegger · « **Reply #2 on:** May 07, 2012, 04:38:33 PM »

Sorta make a feller feel like a penny waitin' on change...

Randy Powell · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2012, 05:24:40 PM »

Yea, but Howard is a master. When he messes up, it's always creative. Even more than me and that's saying something.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:25:20 PM »

No bats were harmed in the making of this airplane.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2012, 08:46:39 PM »

YET

Now Howard, please make sure that people know I had no part in this portion of the finishing process, I have a reputation after all

well ok so not THAT reputation,,, the other one

Randy Powell · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2012, 09:07:47 PM »

Hey, at least I had outside intervention. What are you blaming this on?

wwwarbird · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2012, 10:12:39 PM »

Um, Howard, what type of cleaning solvent did you think you were using?

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2012, 11:56:58 PM »

This thread needs pictures.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2012, 09:13:44 AM »

Clint,
you probably like to look at train wreck pictures too huh!

Avaiojet · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2012, 11:25:14 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on May 08, 2012, 09:13:44 AM

Clint,
you probably like to look at train wreck pictures too huh!

Howard Rush · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2012, 12:15:47 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on May 07, 2012, 10:12:39 PM

Um, Howard, what type of cleaning solvent did you think you were using?

PPG Acryli-Clean. I have been using mostly Windex, and this is another argument for Windex.

Neither this nor the previous instance of using thinner by mistake on lacquer did much harm. This was on one side of an elevator. It sanded right out. It comingled the finish and base coats, so I'll have to give it an extra toot or two of white, which could cost me a gram.

In other news, I did an experiment to see if tack cloths do anything. They do. It was a blind experiment: I didn't realize I was doing an experiment until the first couple of parts were painted.

Also, I learned that reflexively grabbing a flap being dropped on the garage floor makes grabbing dents in addition to the impact damage. All was made well by the green putty that is eager to dry before it is put on the part, then sits there taking its sweet time drying.

Derek Barry · « **Reply #12 on:** May 08, 2012, 12:27:06 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on May 08, 2012, 12:15:47 PM

Also, I learned that reflexively grabbing a flap being dropped on the garage floor makes grabbing dents in addition to the impact damage. All was made well by the green putty that is eager to dry before it is put on the part, then sits there taking its sweet time drying.

This is my biggest problem.

The force of grabbing something before it hits the floor is greater than the impact itself...I feel your pain Howard.

Derek

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2012, 12:43:14 PM »

Yeppers, grabbing things that are falling is a natural instinct... In the shop, we learn that when you drop sometime, most times its better to try to get out of the way instead of stopping it. Once in a while you get lucky and catch it without inflicting more damage, but often times you end up missing and deflecting the piece across the shop and making it worse,,
Howard,
sorry to hear you are suffering travails,, rest assured, as you create, invent, and suffer through each of these "issues", it reduces the number of possible problems from infinite ,, to less than infinite,,,, slightly,, ( assuming of course we learn from them which is not always a given LOL)

Randy Powell · « **Reply #14 on:** May 08, 2012, 05:15:26 PM »

I, of course, have developed mad skills so that if some unforeseen event happens, I can grab the part out of the air deftly without damage. I just have to train the bats...

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #15 on:** May 08, 2012, 05:24:26 PM »

I have a cure for grabbing falling objects. Take up the game of darts. One of the first things you'll learn is NOT to try and catch one if it bounces off the board. You'll also be a little lighter on your feet for fear said dart lands on(in) your shoe.

Steve

Howard Rush · « **Reply #16 on:** May 08, 2012, 05:40:22 PM »

Dropped the other flap while painting it today. I was able to arrest it without squeezing hard because it was sticky from the wet paint.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #17 on:** May 08, 2012, 05:54:31 PM »

Howard, have you ever considered painting jigs to hold parts while you paint them,,

Just sayin buddy,, twice,, hmm

Howard Rush · « **Reply #18 on:** May 08, 2012, 06:05:39 PM »

I am strongly considering a different method for holding flaps.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #19 on:** May 08, 2012, 06:58:19 PM »

You here all week Howard?

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #20 on:** May 08, 2012, 09:43:44 PM »

I am beginning to think perhaps My earlier comments about pictures being in poor taste was hasty,, though video of this may be more entertaining,,

Derek Barry · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:13:29 AM »

Try this Howard.

Derek

john e. holliday · « **Reply #22 on:** May 09, 2012, 08:40:17 AM »

That's the professional way of doing it. I like paint all over my hands and clothes.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2012, 12:25:10 AM »

I had a couple of minor misadventures today. Flaps were all fixed and lovely, except for a tiny pinhole in one. I touched it with a toothpick with thinned DZ-3 on the toothpick. More than I intended went onto the flap. Curiously, it formed a crater. The pinhole must have been part of a sinkhole in the flap. It's filled in with green stuff now.

I'm doing some striping involving lots of colors and masking. I noticed that the green and blue looked a lot alike. Then I noticed that I hadn't masked the green when I tooted the blue. It's OK. It was just a practice stripe. Another thing I learned is that the fancy masking tape that Randy uses doesn't last forever, although I am counting on the stuff farther inside the roll still being good.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2012, 04:22:38 PM »

Howard,

Pete Peterson converted me to the high end blue painter mask recently. It's cheaper than the 3M vinyl or the Finesse stuff and work very well. So that's what I'm using at this point.

And tell me you aren't painting a plane green and blue. Where we fly that is tantamount to suicide. How will you see it?

Howard Rush · « **Reply #25 on:** May 14, 2012, 10:53:27 PM »

Here are some colors. Looks rather Gialdiniesque, I think.

Changing the subject, in the back yard just behind my little finger in this picture, I saw a bear cub Friday. He ran back into the woods when he saw me. One can imagine for what.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2012, 10:55:11 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on May 14, 2012, 04:22:38 PM

Pete Peterson converted me to the high end blue painter mask recently.

What kind is that?

Mike Haverly · « **Reply #27 on:** May 14, 2012, 11:25:04 PM »

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #28 on:** May 15, 2012, 12:02:41 AM »

I thought you made the flaps so stiff gravity had no effect.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #29 on:** May 15, 2012, 10:48:54 AM »

Howard,

ScotchBlue™ Painter's Tape Delicate Surface with Edge-Lock™ Paint Line Protector (2080EL)

Howard Rush · « **Reply #30 on:** May 15, 2012, 12:35:21 PM »

Quote from: PJ Rowland on May 15, 2012, 12:02:41 AM

I thought you made the flaps so stiff gravity had no effect.

At which way to pull out
There may be a lapse,
But the Jive Combat Team
Has the stiffest of flaps.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #31 on:** May 16, 2012, 01:55:05 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on May 15, 2012, 10:48:54 AM

Howard,

ScotchBlue™ Painter's Tape Delicate Surface with Edge-Lock™ Paint Line Protector (2080EL)

Another very similar product is the Delicate Surface version (yellow) of Frog tape. It also has the Edge-Block, in fact I think they were first with it and the other manufacturers copied it. It was previously an exclusive item only available at Sherwin Williams, but recently saw it in Walmart. Try a roll, you will like it.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #32 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:42:10 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on May 15, 2012, 10:48:54 AM

Howard,

ScotchBlue™ Painter's Tape Delicate Surface with Edge-Lock™ Paint Line Protector (2080EL)

Yep, I agree, the Scotch Blue 2080EL is great stuff. Found mine at Home Depot and have been using it for a while now. A bit thinner and less tacky than their normal blue painters tape.

I've also gotten to like the yellow Frogtape, it's real handy in certain situations because you can sort of see through it.

I must have at least dozen or so different types and widths of the same types of tape that I use regularly anymore. Certain tapes just work better than others for different situations. Having them all handy at any given moment definitely helps things along with less headache.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #33 on:** May 19, 2012, 01:21:36 PM »

Jive Combat Team Front Row Finish Tip 3. When you decide you don't like a graphic and rip the paint mask off the wing, don't forget the hair dryer trick. Dope doesn't stick to Polyspan as well as you'd like it to.

Derek Barry · « **Reply #34 on:** May 19, 2012, 04:33:09 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on May 19, 2012, 01:21:36 PM

Jive Combat Team Front Row Finish Tip 3. When you decide you don't like a graphic and rip the paint mask off the wing, don't forget the hair dryer trick. Dope doesn't stick to Polyspan as well as you'd like it to.

I wish I could make fun of you but I do just as much dumb stuff as you do...

Derek

Randy Powell · « **Reply #35 on:** May 19, 2012, 07:58:34 PM »

Amen, Derek, amen.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #36 on:** May 19, 2012, 08:18:29 PM »

Quote from: Derek Barry on May 19, 2012, 04:33:09 PM

I wish I could make fun of you but I do just as much dumb stuff as you do...

That's no excuse for not making fun of me.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #37 on:** May 19, 2012, 10:37:34 PM »

Howard,, I disavow any knowledge of your painting process,
ok well, how about I just dont admit to any knowledge,,

ok well just dont blame me,, thats good enough,,

If you were using Urethane base clear like we talked about,, you would have it finished, without these problems,, ( well except for the whole dropping the flaps thing,, ) and you would be able to fly it in Eugene,, Just sayin

Randy Powell · « **Reply #38 on:** May 19, 2012, 11:07:15 PM »

yea, yea, you and urethane. Just marry the stuff and be done with it.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #39 on:** May 20, 2012, 12:42:46 AM »

If I'd started with Nitrate like Pete told me to, I probably wouldn't have pulled the paint off with the mask.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #40 on:** May 21, 2012, 11:48:15 AM »

Howard,

Here's a tip. If you put a 20 point finish on the plane, don't hit the pavement with it. It really messes up the finish.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #41 on:** May 21, 2012, 01:36:13 PM »

When I paint, everything gets painted.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #42 on:** May 21, 2012, 05:33:39 PM »

Hey Howard, leave no stone un-turned --- and paint it.

On the other hand, you might consider nitrile gloves. I hear they are all the rage.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #43 on:** May 21, 2012, 07:08:04 PM »

Yeah but Randy, then how would he show us the colors,, ( cause we know he wont show his plane!) and then he would have missed the whole "bear going in the woods" line too

Randy Powell · « **Reply #44 on:** May 21, 2012, 08:36:37 PM »

Just a thought, man. Hey, do what you want. Try not to point the gun at your glasses, though. Ask me how I know this.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #45 on:** May 21, 2012, 09:42:18 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on May 21, 2012, 07:08:04 PM

Yeah but Randy, then how would he show us the colors,, ( cause we know he wont show his plane!) and then he would have missed the whole "bear going in the woods" line too

Here's a black and white picture of the dog. I think it looks really cool. I might leave it this way.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #46 on:** May 21, 2012, 10:08:28 PM »

Howard,,
thanks,
I was just teasing,,
It looks sharp,, though I think that your appearance points may suffer slightly without some form of color,, maybe some artistic dribblings ala Mikey Tuttles style of artwork?

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #47 on:** May 22, 2012, 12:15:14 AM »

Howard - as a respected stunt pilot - and someone who's of the forefront of stunt design - I need you to explain the benifits of this new incarnation of design.

How do you find pitch and stability of that model with the new design elements of no flaps and Stab?

What are the improvements - and is this going to be a trend for other electrics ?

Howard Rush · « **Reply #48 on:** May 22, 2012, 03:07:58 AM »

Active stabilization and control are done with control moment gyros. Igor's already doing it.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #49 on:** May 22, 2012, 11:41:31 AM »

That's a big canopy. Wow.

You could go with a sort of Jackson Pollack thing. Use the same white, add just a few drops of black to darken the tone a step and paint on the trim. Do it again for then next trim color. I've thought of doing that sort of really subtle finish before, but then decided that I just wasn't a subtle sort of guy.