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Author Topic: Dreadnought with improvised wing joints not approved  (Read 736 times)

Offline Jorge de Azevedo

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Dreadnought with improvised wing joints not approved
« on: March 11, 2013, 12:10:32 PM »
 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Structural problems reveled on the first flight.






Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Dreadnought with improvised wing joints not approved
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 12:33:07 PM »
The support system shown really has no more strength than the three music wire rods, unless you have a way to firmly connect the ends of the rods to your spars (which, if I understand today's gluing technology well enough, would require magic).

When a wing develops lift, it generates lots of bending moment at the wing root.  That's what makes your wings fold up when you forget spars.

Spars absorb bending moment by turning it into tension and compression forces (see the top drawing below).  If your rods were not firmly tied into your spars then they would slide with respect to the spars and those compression and bending forces would have no where to go (see the middle drawing, below).  Instead, the spars slip on the rods, and the whole bending moment of the wing would be imposed on those little old 1/8" rods, with the result that you got.

What I've seen done in cases like this is to make a beam in the center section, with a hole in it for the bellcrank (bottom picture).  Tying the top and bottom of the beam together with shear plates lets you use the same amount of material in the center, yet keeps the center assembly from bending.  You still need to attach this assembly firmly to the spars, though -- nice smooth music wire probably won't cut it.  The assemblies that I've seen are made of aluminum and appear to be sand-blasted for better adhesion.  You either need to do that, or you need a long tongue extending into a box in the wing, or you need a way to bolt the spars to the center section (without breaking the spars).

It's not a trivial problem.  It's a solved problem -- I've seen pictures of a center section assembly here, and held one in my hand at the dinner at one of the Auburn contests -- but it ain't trivial.

What were you trying to achieve?

Edit:

Sorry, I see that you were trying for bolt on wings.  In this case, then you either need to firmly bolt the spars together at the wing root (which requires metal spar stubs at the wing root so nothing breaks), or you need a stub spar in the form of a long tongue that slides into a socket in the wing.  Top guys seem to go for the bolt-together spar assembly; that's what I was babbling about seeing at the party, and in drawings here.

The stub and socket is lower tech, but it will be hard to make it light, nicely fitting, and strong.


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Offline Jorge de Azevedo

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Re: Dreadnought with improvised wing joints not approved
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 01:09:01 PM »
Hi Tim Wescott,
Very good considerations.
Thank you very much for your time and effort in help me.

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Dreadnought with improvised wing joints not approved
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 02:00:35 PM »
I am sorry this happend I did try to warn you at what I saw. This is fixable with some thought. The bolts holding the wing on can support no load or stress. Some type of torque tube could be inserted into the fuse spanning at least 3 bays out into each wing. The CF tube would support to stress not the bolts. Do keep use updated on your solution.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Dreadnought with improvised wing joints not approved
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 02:13:44 PM »
I am sorry this happend I did try to warn you at what I saw. This is fixable with some thought. The bolts holding the wing on can support no load or stress. Some type of torque tube could be inserted into the fuse spanning at least 3 bays out into each wing. The CF tube would support to stress not the bolts. Do keep use updated on your solution.

What Robert is suggesting is a version of the "stub and socket" system that I was babbling about.  Same thing, only different words.  If you can fit it in around the bellcrank you'll be good to go.

The important thing with any such system is that unless you put the bolts through the spars themselves, then all they can do is keep the wing from pulling off of the stub spars -- if you go the stub-spar way (i.e., Robert's CF tube) then the wings should be firmly prevented from flapping up and down by the stub spar, even with the bolts left off.

And if you do go with a method that bolts the spars together, you really need to have some serious mechanical engineering ability; again, it ain't trivial.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Dreadnought with improvised wing joints not approved
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 03:43:53 PM »
Yea, I was afraid of this when you first posted the setup. Too much load on a narrow area. Above suggestions are pretty good.
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Offline Jorge de Azevedo

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Re: Dreadnought with improvised wing joints not approved
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 07:41:20 AM »
Thank you for all your information.
Best regards,


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