stunthanger.com
Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: Avaiojet on May 01, 2012, 04:11:06 PM
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I cannot remember what applying dope was like in the late 50's and early 60's?
But I was doing it! I built and covered models with dope. I don't remember having issues.
This stuff is nuts!
There has to be a better way.
Charles
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If you want a high quality, good looking dope finish there is not a "better way". If you want less, then use something and settle for mediocrity or just by an ARF. There are of course "other ways" of finishing and can be well done but most start out with a dope and tissue (carbon fiber, silkspan etc.) and finished with other products that may or may not adhere correctly or cause other problems. If you do some searching on this forum you find that nearly all have been discussed to death. Or, just experiment and find out for yourself.
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what are you using for thinner Charles,, and you want it to dry fast,, especially with the base coats,, perhaps your memory of days gone by may not be quite as accurate as you think? I know some things from my past dont seem the same now as they did then, but its altered memories,, more than changes,,
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what are you using for thinner Charles,, and you want it to dry fast,, especially with the base coats,, perhaps your memory of days gone by may not be quite as accurate as you think? I know some things from my past dont seem the same now as they did then, but its altered memories,, more than changes,,
Mark,
Yes, I know I'm old, I can tell the morning after Tennis. ;D
But, I cannot remember dope of any type drying this fast. Florida heat?
I purchased nitrate and nitrate thinner to go with it. I'm thinking of ordering some retarder tomorrow. I called Aircraft Spruce and they said many guys order this.
I split it 50% 50% and I have brush experience from doing sign work, but this nitrate, I couldn't put it on fast enough. Didn't take long to get brush drag, so I just applied the stuff a bit thicker and didn't back brush as much.
It levels OK, but I have to slow the drying down or I can't imagine the issues I'll have with applying the silk.
Am I missing something?
HELP! I've been doped! HB~>
Charles
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I've been using Randolph Nitrate and Brodack butyrate with no problems, but we don't have heat and humidity here. I mean if it hit's the low 70's in the summer we are pretty happy.
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Back in those days you had Aero Gloss. I know how you feel.
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Dope is why I love this hobby! Hey don't bogart that paper bag dude.---LOUIE LL~ LL~ D>K
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Back in those days you had Aero Gloss. I know how you feel.
I used AeroGloss as a teenager, but not that much.
Was not trying finish to the same level as I am today.
After 35 year layoff from modeling, I now use Sig or Randolph dope.
I am always hearing laments about not having AeroGloss any more.
So what was so much better about AG vs the dopes available today?
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I used AeroGloss as a teenager, but not that much.
Was not trying finish to the same level as I am today.
After 35 year layoff from modeling, I now use Sig or Randolph dope.
I am always hearing laments about not having AeroGloss any more.
So what was so much better about AG vs the dopes available today?
It consistantly worked perfectly and everyone could get a good finish without having to be an 'expert'.
even mine looked good and I really hate dope.
Dennis
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Finishing with lacquer is a skill. The biggest difference between lacquer and other approaches is that lacquer is more sensitive to environment than, say, urethane paints. The usable range is somewhat narrower (temp, humidity and such). It takes practice and development of a certain amount of skill to get lacquer paints to work consistently. It's one of the arguments for urethane auto paints. They tend, generally, to be more tolerant of variables like humidity.
The other issues is that the EPA has put down rules that have changed formulation of lacquers over time and, in my opinion, made them even more temperamental. Just takes more time and regulation of conditions to get them to work well.
But a really good lacquer finish is hard to beat for beauty.
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unfortunately a lacquer finish is also the softest weakest finish that you can put on anything. cracking and crazing was the biggest problem on cars, and the finish simply dissolving with out fuel makes it really a lot more trouble then it is really worth. I know that experts will jump in and offer other opinions. This is simply mine.
dennis
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unfortunately a lacquer finish is also the softest weakest finish that you can put on anything. cracking and crazing was the biggest problem on cars, and the finish simply dissolving with out fuel makes it really a lot more trouble then it is really worth. I know that experts will jump in and offer other opinions. This is simply mine.
dennis
As a general rule, I detest any finishing product that air dries,, however, due to some limitations such as open bay wings,, there are not many options in certain situations,,
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Back in those days you had Aero Gloss. I know how you feel.
Howard,
Then I'm not crazy? n~
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Nitrate and Aerogloss are not explicitly the same thing,,
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Years ago, a now defunct (is there any other kind?) hobby shop wanted to supply nitrate clear for freeflight fliers. I have the guy a case of new quart cans to put it up in. A few months later, he gave me what he had left, saying it did not work well. It would not dry without blushing, very fast. I added retarder and got it to work fine. I haven't had that problem with Randolf or certified clears, but then I ordinarily add retarder from the gitgo. S?P
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OK,
I'm guessing Aerogloss is NLA?
Charles
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I am guessing you decided against some of the advice to use Nitrate then?
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I am guessing you decided against some of the advice to use Nitrate then?
Mark,
Incorrect.
I took advice, your's I believe.
I'm using nitrate on balsa to fill, reduced with nitrate thinner. So far three coats.
I'll also use nitrate to apply the silk.
Taunting nitrate in open bay areas to fill the silk.
Buytrate dope over everything.
Have I got it?
Today I ordered retarder, and I plan on using one of my wide and expensive short haired art brushes.
Mark, thanks for the reply.
Charles
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that's what some people do,, that's not what I do, I use Butyrate for everything,, so much so that I have never heard of tautening versus non tautening Nitrate,, I have only found that associated with Butyrate,, Just Googled it,, sure enough there is non tautening nitrate,, Still not going to use it myself,,
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Using nitrate and butyrate on the same airframe is just another incompatibility to deal with.
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Mark,
Incorrect.
I took advice, your's I believe.
I'm using nitrate on balsa to fill, reduced with nitrate thinner. So far three coats.
I'll also use nitrate to apply the silk.
Taunting nitrate in open bay areas to fill the silk.
Buytrate dope over everything.
Have I got it?
Today I ordered retarder, and I plan on using one of my wide and expensive short haired art brushes.
Mark, thanks for the reply.
Charles
"Have I got it?"
No, you don't "got" it. You do not, repeat "NOT" need to use nitrate on your models at all. The only reason I use nitrate at all is when it is required by an STC'd process on a full-scale airplane restoration - never on my models. Some modelers do use it on their models because they have "always done it that way." I sometimes think that you don't read the posts answering your questions at all.
"Taunting nitrate in open bay areas to fill the silk."
The term is TAUTENING, not "taunting" (presuming that you meant shrinking of the dope film.)
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"Have I got it?"
No, you don't "got" it. You do not, repeat "NOT" need to use nitrate on your models at all. The only reason I use nitrate at all is when it is required by an STC'd process on a full-scale airplane restoration - never on my models. Some modelers do use it on their models because they have "always done it that way." I sometimes think that you don't read the posts answering your questions at all.
"Taunting nitrate in open bay areas to fill the silk."
The term is TAUTENING, not "taunting" (presuming that you meant shrinking of the dope film.)
Bill,
I've had more information sent to me about finishing than you could imagine. And I read all of it.
Probably why I'm a bit confused.
This is my first attempt at a CL model in 49 years.
It's getting done and I'm not looking for ANY pats on the back either.
I'm just putting the entire build in full view with hopes to receive help.
There's always a second plane to build more correctly.
Charles