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Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: david beazley on December 28, 2012, 04:35:58 PM
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I picked up a rattle can of the 2 part clear "death paint" for my Brodak P-51. I have a mask with carbon filters and plan on spraying outside when I can catch a day warm enough. I am wondering about the toxicity involved with these types of products. Would it be safe to shoot this outside then bring in the house to cure? Are the particulates in the paint the bad stuff or will the off gassing be as bad?
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What's it say on the can? They're usually pretty explicit about hazards, just an example of "CYA" for liability issues, ya know. Just a thought. H^^ Steve
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It says "for professional use only", use respirator, etc. I am hoping to take the plane outside, shoot it, bring it inside to dry, and not die. Am I asking too much or shoul I just wait until spring? ??? mw~ :X
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I see no problems.
Marcus
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I'm not sure what this particualr product is.
One issue: Is it extremely slow-drying? If so the overspray can get you in trouble if it gets to your's or your neighbor's car. Dope dries in no time so I don't sweat it. But 30-minute epoxy can go a long way.
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I live in the country so overspray is not an issue. Product is Spray Max 2K.
Flash off time is 3-7 minutes depending on temp. Dry time 12 hours at 20o C. I don't know if that means full hardness or to touch.
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It's the stuff that is in the air floating around. Once it has settled no problem for me so far. I too use a spray mask and spray outside. Once clean up is done, the plane goes back in the shop for final curing. I also set up a fan to blow the spray away from me.
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http://www.spraymax.com/index.php?id=361&L=1
"Wear personal protection gear (respirator type: A2/P2 safety gloves, e.g. Latex or nitrile)"
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In general, you want to use a respirator, shoot outside as you note and cover up. It's not good to get the stuff on your skin so wear gloves, long sleeves and a hat. As far as taking it into the house when done, I wouldn't. I'd take it into the garage or whatever. Once it catalyzes, the stuff it pretty inert, but until it does, it's pretty nasty stuff.
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Do you trust these guys with your life? I recommend finding the MSDS and doing as it says. Or you can do a trade study: the test to tell you whether the stuff destroyed your lungs costs more than $1,000. For that money you can get good equipment and good paint.
H. Rush
Through-hole man trapped in a surface-mount world
Edited to match David's quote more closely.
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The stuff is nasty, but taking precautions usually works. Howard is right about the MSDS. Look it over.
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Ok fellas, I've seen a few use the term here in the past, but just what exactly is "Death Paint".
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I coined the term Isocyanate Death Paint, mainly to get Jim Aron and PT Granderson to be careful when using the PPG catalyzed polyurethane that PT is famous for. Others seem to use the term for other materials.
I used the stuff on my last two dogs. I didn't get the full pressurized mask kit that I should have, but I did some research and got new masks with the appropriate yellow and purple cartridges. Some weeks after one paint job I noticed that I was making a meowing sound when I breathed, but without using my vocal chords. Figuring I'd done myself in, I got the aforementioned lung test. I'm OK, but I'm wondering what to use to paint the next dog. What would Dr. Faust do?
H. Rush
Through-hole man trapped in a surface-mount world
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Interestingly enough the Spray Max website link to the MSDS sheet is down. I can wait till I can shoot it outside. I don't have a garage so it's outside or the basement. I'm NOT spraying in the house! I have a positive pressure mask coming. I'm a sales rep and I ordered a "sample". I wonder if a CPAP machine would work? <=
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Thanks for the info Howard! :)
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No question the stuff is dangerous. I once (foolishly) shot Imron with a crummy particle mask (one of those paper jobs for sanding drywall). I was outside, but ended sucking in quite a bit of it. A few hours later ended up in the hospital and had to take medication for about a year before it finally cleared up.
I'm very careful with the stuff now.
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WOW, sounds like Howard coined the proper term! :o
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Wayne,
The stuff is fine as long as you follow MSDS directions and take reasonable precautions. I mean, I still use the stuff. I'm just a lot more careful with it.
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Yeah, I'm sure it's fine when used with all the correct equipment. I was just curious as to exactly what paint you guys were talking about. At this point I'd have no thoughts of using it, I'm plenty happy with my good 'ol butyrate dope for my stuff. Good to know about the Death Paint though, thanks for the info on it. y1
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Butyrate dope is very very dangerous. Once you inhale it you want to build more and more models #^
Ed
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Ya gotta watch the butyrate, too. Another guy and I were spraying two Piper Colts at the same time once when the service manager came behind the curtain and grabbed us by the collars and hauled us out to the fresh air. Seems like we were screaming and having way too much fun back there - he said were like a couple of drunks! You're right, no masks, no nuthin' back then. (1963)
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Maybe the dope is why some of us are still around. I remember painting in my bed room when I was still single and even after I got married I was painting in an up stairs room when some friends of the wife came for a visit. Tey left early because of the fumes. I didn't even notice them. Now the epoxy(K&B) and the new auto paints I can't stand. Even opening the cans to mix I have to go out side in fresh air. I use a mask, double filter even out side with the newer paints.
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As a kid I sat in a small room doping FF wings for hours and I never hadddd aaaa problemmmmmmmmmmmmmm with it. I guess I got a little sleeeeeepy ~^
I painted many cars with all the bad paints and used MEK every day for years and I have never had any trouble from it. I did get cateracts very early in life and I asked if the paint had caused it and the answer was no.
EddyR I think,maybe n1
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Are the particulates in the paint the bad stuff or will the off gassing be as bad?
David, YES while 'gassing off' the model is STILL TOXIC to be around. Many people using isocyanate paints forget about this when they bring the model inside to dry off. Don't do this. It's best to put the drying model in a closed garage or shed until it dries. One of the reasons this type of paint is so popular is that it can be dust free & handleable in as little as 20 minutes...
I've used these paints sucessfully for 30+ yrs but have only gotten away with it because I paint smaller speed & race type models which use relatively little paint. (as little as 1-2 oz. at a time).
The larger the model the GREATER PRECAUTION that you need to follow. It's good to see you ONLY do this outside & downwind. That's a very smart (& important) thing to do in addition to following the Material Safety Data Sheets ( MSDS).
NO modeling endevor is worth risking your health. Stay safe.
Cheers, Paul
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Of course, if you've been around Paul at all, it's obvious he's used these paints a lot.
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Why not just use a less-than -lethal clear like 480S?
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The reason for use of that paint is that it is much more resistant to sun, fuel and abuse. It holds up better than any lacquer. But with electrics, that may become less of an issue.