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Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: Derek Barry on March 02, 2013, 06:09:09 AM
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Started sanding around 6:00 am today. I got all the small parts done, all that is left is the plane.
Derek
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a few more
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The last picture is the nose of the plane if final clear but not buffed yet.
Derek
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Could you explain the process, please. Thanks.
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Ok, that's just sick! I mean slick, well, both! 8)
Can't wait to see this thing all together,
EricV
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Looks awesome Derek.
You picked a great paint scheme. I love the colors and I love the shine!
Mike
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Well, I just learned that I have no finishing skills at all...
Man, what is that!!!
It's so shiny one can use it as a mirror for shaving.
Derek is Chip Foose of model airplanes.
Marcus
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OK, Derek, I am going to remove all the hardware and then take a 3 lb. hammer to all my planes.....................
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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sick!
so sick, bro!
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Well, I just learned that I have no finishing skills at all...
Man, what is that!!!
It's so shiny one can use it as a mirror for shaving.
Derek is Chip Foose of model airplanes.
Marcus
You are not lone Marcus. I know I can't finish a plane to a 15 point standard let alone a 20 point. But, I have received 12 points on a couple of planes. Was told it is not the final finish, but is what is under the finish that helps most. I have seen a lot of planeswith that high gloss mirror finish that didn't get the 20 points they thought they deserved. Make up the difference in flying.
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Could you explain the process, please. Thanks.
Ok, here is the quick rundown.
Once the color paint is complete I spray 2 to 3 coats of clear on everything with extra passes on the edges and paint lines.
I wet sand the entire plane with 1500 or 1000 grit sandpaper until most or all of the orange peal and paint lines are gone.
I spray another two coats of clear and then let it cure for at least one week.
I wet sand everything again with 1500 grit sandpaper until flat.
I use a medium cut rubbing compound then a polishing compound. (I like 3M and McGuire's rubbing compounds and polishing compounds)
I usually use McGuire's machine glaze for the final rub.
Wax if desired.
Derek
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Have to agree with everyone here...that is just awesome.
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We're not worthy! We're not worthy! y1
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Derek is rolling straight-up Windy Urtnowski. y1
Just like Windy!!
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Hi Little Buddy,
Thanks for laying out your buffing methods. Do you use a machine at any point or is it all "hand" done?
Thanks!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Once the color paint is complete I spray 2 to 3 coats of clear on everything with extra passes on the edges and paint lines.
Do you sand the color paint before starting the clear, is so what grit ?
You still using the Dupont 480 for clear coats ?
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This one should be twenty pointer for sure !
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Do you sand the color paint before starting the clear, is so what grit ?
You still using the Dupont 480 for clear coats ?
Hey Allan,
No I do not sand the color, there is probably not enough color to sand. If I touch it with the sandpaper I would go through to the base coat. I try to use as little paint as possible. Sometimes when I sand the clear I have little rub throughs that have to be fixed before final clear.
Yes I am still using DuPont 480s for clear.
Derek
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Thanks for all of the wonderful comments. TO be compared to Chip Foose and Windy is quite an honor.
Thanks again.
Derek
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Hi Little Buddy,
Thanks for laying out your buffing methods. Do you use a machine at any point or is it all "hand" done?
Thanks!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Hey Big Bear,
I do most of it by hand but I like to use a cordless electric drill with a buffing pad to do the big areas like the wing. All of the parts you see in the pictures were done by hand.
Derek
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Derek,
You have just pushed all past front row airplanes back to the second row!
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The thing I really dislike about people like you, is how it makes me realise what a crappy finisher I truly am! LL~ H^^
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Derek:
Do use any type of block when you sand the clear?
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Well, they can reserve your Front Row spot right now Derek. If there is a trophy, they might as well get the engraving done too. Awesome stuff. y1
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Derek:
Do use any type of block when you sand the clear?
No, I do it all by hand with a piece of 1500. I cut the sheet short ways into about 1.5" to 2" strips and fold those into thirds. Wet sanding with just water works very well on the 480s and one piece of sandpaper last a very long time. I did all of the small parts with one of the folded strips. I got a new one when I started the plane itself. I have about 2/3 of the fuse sanded right now. I will take some pictures of the plane in different stages of sanding until it is flat so that you guys can see the process.
Thanks again for all of the great comments and support.
Derek
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Will you finish this amazing bird and get it assembled? I want to see the final product. This teasing is killing me.
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Will you finish this amazing bird and get it assembled? I want to see the final product. This teasing is killing me.
Trying my best Randy, I have been very busy lately with work and remodeling a new house.
I will have it done soon. :)
Derek
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I know. I just whining. carry on. ;D
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Randy, is yours ready for paint yet??? LL~ LL~ LL~
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Really nice work Derek.
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Really nice work Derek.
Thanks John.
Derek
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In these pictures you can see the process of wet sanding the clear to make if "flat". This is the only way to get that mirror finish.
Derek
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In these pictures you can see that most of the orange peel is gone. The rubbing and buffing can start once all the orange peel is gone.
Derek
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Yeah, orange peel is tricky. Trying to decide if there is enough clear on it to allow you to take down the peel to flat without going through.
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yeppers, looks like good times there,, time for solitude,, good music,, strong lighting, and lots of patience
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yeppers, looks like good times there,, time for solitude,, good music,, strong lighting, and lots of patience
Yep, patience is the key. The other day I was a good hour into sanding and was on a roll. Of course that is when I rubbed through and had to stop to make a repair. Things like that really test my patience...
Derek
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Here are a few of the nose.
Derek
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I'm so glad you screwed up. Now I don't feel so bad. I talked with three well known top ten guys at VSC some time back and they all admittted to screwups. We underlings seem to think ya'll are perfect. I guess the difference is you know how to fix or hide those screw ups. Thanks for your efforts on here. Give me hope. H^^ y1
From back when I was learning bodywork and painting,,
" what makes a professional a professional, is that he knows how to fix his mistakes,, "
yeah mistakes are always made, its knowing how to fix them, and,,, having the patience to do it,,
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I don't know why it is that I can always seem to get a glassy finish on the nose. Probably because I lay the clear on there heavier than anywhere else. I try to go thin on the wings and such and usually end up with either the problems that Derek is experiencing or some orange peel that I can quite get out.
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Probably because it is very rounded so you get a good concentration of buffing pressure/heat and because it is a very sturdy part of the structure, so you don't hold back or stop early.
I find the same thing in buffing guitars. The narrower sides, radiussed edges and necks buff much, much more easily than the flat front or back.
Just enough pressure and just enough heat are the hardest things to get a handle on in abrasive polishing.
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its also decieving on flats, because you never stay in the same spot as long as you will on a curved surface,,
but its looking good,,
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The plane looks awesome!
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H^^ H^^ H^^ H^^ H^^ H^^
PERFECT Derek,
It is a masterpiece in a airmodel shape.
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Did we ever get any "complete" and assembled pics? If so, I missed them. Have you flown this one yet Derek?
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Did we ever get any "complete" and assembled pics? If so, I missed them. Have you flown this one yet Derek?
Hey Wayne,
I have not finished it yet. I still have to finish buffing the wings. I had a rub through on the rudder that set me back a little but it is fixed now. I hope to finish in a week or two. Work has been crazy and the new house remodel is taking a lot of my free time. Thanks for asking though.
Derek
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Derek : What is the max grit you flat sand finish with prior to hand buff ?
I stop at 12,000 - and on occasion I think thats pointless, 8,000 is usually smooth enough.
I go : 2k, 3k, 4k, 8k finish with a light 12k then start the polish process.
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Derek : What is the max grit you flat sand finish with prior to hand buff ?
I stop at 12,000 - and on occasion I think thats pointless, 8,000 is usually smooth enough.
I go : 2k, 3k, 4k, 8k finish with a light 12k then start the polish process.
I use 1,500 and only 1,500. I have never seen such high grit sand paper. I would like some 2K and 3K. I can get 2K here but I don't have any.
By the way, congrats to the Aussies for winning the Masters last week.
Derek
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Derek : What is the max grit you flat sand finish with prior to hand buff ?
I stop at 12,000 - and on occasion I think that's pointless, 8,000 is usually smooth enough.
I go : 2k, 3k, 4k, 8k finish with a light 12k then start the polish process.
WOW!!! How much time does it take to sand it out that many times? There is no way I could find that time, even if I didn't sleep, I am married with kiddos time to sand airplanes is not the priority... ;D ;D ;D
I have found some 3K paper around here but it is on a hook-it pad for a small power sander. Under power is rips down the clear pretty quick and will go through if your not careful. It leaves a dull shine. It's also designed to work dry.
Once you have sanded it out with 8K or 12K what is your polishing process and what do you use? Just a quick outline is fine doesn't have to be too detailed. Derek, I dint mean to hijack your thread, just curious on his process.
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WOW!!! How much time does it take to sand it out that many times? There is no way I could find that time, even if I didn't sleep, I am married with kiddos time to sand airplanes is not the priority... ;D ;D ;D
I have found some 3K paper around here but it is on a hook-it pad for a small power sander. Under power is rips down the clear pretty quick and will go through if your not careful. It leaves a dull shine. It's also designed to work dry.
Once you have sanded it out with 8K or 12K what is your polishing process and what do you use? Just a quick outline is fine doesn't have to be too detailed. Derek, I dint mean to hijack your thread, just curious on his process.
Not at all, I am curious too. I am not sure why you would need 12K sandpaper. At work we polish granite and a 3000 grit pad is as high as we go to achieve a mirror like finish. Over 90 GU.
Derek
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Having painted a few cars,, including a couple show cars,, I have never used anything finer than 2000# when cutting to polish,, 1200 or 1500 to cut the peal,, then 2000 to remove the scratches, then polish from there,,
I HAVE however used finer grits to polish acrylic aircraft winsheilds,, that is the only place I have seen use of that fine of abrasive,,
using finer grit would definetly reduce the effort to polish after sanding,, but wow, thats some expensive paper compared to a bottle of rubbing compound,,
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Having painted a few cars,, including a couple show cars,, I have never used anything finer than 2000# when cutting to polish,, 1200 or 1500 to cut the peal,, then 2000 to remove the scratches, then polish from there,,
I HAVE however used finer grits to polish acrylic aircraft winsheilds,, that is the only place I have seen use of that fine of abrasive,,
using finer grit would definetly reduce the effort to polish after sanding,, but wow, thats some expensive paper compared to a bottle of rubbing compound,,
Hey Mark,
What polishing compounds do you use and do you think I could find it locally? I am interested in what the pros use.
Derek
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I have also found that for me 1500 cuts better than 1200 or 1000#. Not sure if it is the paint I use or the increased surface contact with the 1500??
Derek
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Hey Mark,
What polishing compounds do you use and do you think I could find it locally? I am interested in what the pros use.
Derek
And to piggy back on that question. What kind of clear are you talking about polishing? 2 part polyurathane, dope, or a 480S, etc??
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Hey Mark,
What polishing compounds do you use and do you think I could find it locally? I am interested in what the pros use.
Derek
I have bought and tried most everything out there, The Meguairs Pro system of stepped polish seems to be the best, and ALL of it is paintable after use. Diamond Cut, Power Clean, Medium cut Swirl remover etc...
I use 4 to 6 steps of the compound from medium to very light cut... works great on cars too !
The Dual action compound and Ultra finish polish are GREAT for Dope , Laquer, and final finish sanded Urethane , The power that it dries to, is really good and the powder continues to polish and lube your surface.
After that I use 3M Finesse-it and carnuba mixed half/half , but this is also excellent :
Swirl Free Polish
32oz
Product number: M8232 | SKU: 070382182328
•Formulated for fresh paint
•High performance polish eliminates swirl marks fast
•Specially blended polish with cleaning power removes fine scratches
•Smooth,fast application and easy wipe off
•Restores a glistening “new paint” shine
http://www.meguiars.com/en/professional/products/
Randy
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I have used the system Randy discusses ^^
Mcguires works great, just remember as with sandpaper, there is differing grades of abrasive,,
I have used pretty much anything mainstream,, some work great some work ok, a lot I have found is really dependent upon YOU and how you use it ,, at least as far as specific brands go. I know my buddy Al uses some bizarre name brand compound and I hate the stuff,,
most common besides Mcguires, "Finesse it"
There are a lot of little tricks,, but really, guys if I write it all out here then I wont have anything for my column in Stunt News,, D>K
You all do get stunt news right? H^^
My final glaze for appearance judging day,, its called "race glaze",, awesome slick stuff,,
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Thanks guys,
I really like McGuires too.
I use a medium cut after sanding then a new polishing compound that I found when I was finishing the Matrix. I will take a pic of the bottle and post it when I get a sec. McGuires swirl remover and Machine Glaze work very well for getting the fine scratches out.
Derek
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I hate thread hijacking.. However the question was asked..
1stly - The online store I get the sandpaper in, just simply speciazlises in sandpaper and they go up to 12k grits.
If you understand what the polish process actually does the grades of grits just allow you to reduce the flat down to microns.
1500 grit sands close to 15 microns
12000 sands to 2 micron
Its just a finer process but it does take along time to do.
My buffing process is not dis-similar to what derek is doing.
I start with a very light 1000 just to "knock it down"
move to 1500 to smooth it out
3k spending time to get the main polish working
Now depending on the area - I would use the higher grits to develop a better quality of shine ( Wings - top of the fuse etc.. )
higher grit is 5k and 8 k
This is all just done with water, and detergent. I also use whats called mircomesh cloth sandpaper.
I do machine buff also - its critical you have the correct pad I use 3M™ Perfect-it™ Foam Compounding Pad (05723)
3M Really do have the best range of buffing items. The material I use compounds are :
from the Perfect - it Range System 1 + 2
I will machine buff most of the major parts this is always a 2 person job ( 1 to hold the plane and I buff )
This is usually enough to get it to a high quality shine but I choose to use
Menzerna polish PO85RD which is also called Ultra finishing Polish - this is all dnoe by hand with a polish cloth and compound.
I then seal the whole model with canuba wax - depending on how much time i have left my last model had 6 coats of wax.
Please note : Derek has won 2 concourse awards before ; I have none.
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Only one wing left to buff. I am ready to get this thing in the air but I have been giving it very little attention lately. I need to finish soon so I can start practicing.
Derek
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THAT LOOKS AWESOME!!!!!!!
I can't wait to see it!!
What was that you said about practice?? WTH??
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Looking great, can't wait to see her with all the goodies bolted on, and flying of course!
Hey, I got one that needs buffing, can I send it over? :!
EricV
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Comes a time when you just want to get it in the air.
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Practice? You must have fallen down and bumped your head at the house you are working on...
The plane looks outstanding!
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FANTASTIC Derek!!!!
You've certainly raised the bar with this one!! Can't wait to see it at some point!
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Hi Little Buddy! It just keeps looking better and better!
What will you have at Huntersville?
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Hi Little Buddy! It just keeps looking better and better!
What will you have at Huntersville?
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Hey Big Bear,
Not sure yet. If I can get the Cutlass finished I might bring it for the first flight. You know, depending on what the wind is like.
Derek