Author Topic: Latex house paint question (Read 6290 times)

Larry Renger · « **on:** January 05, 2016, 11:07:46 PM »

My good friend, Andy Borgogna, says that regular latex house paint is fuelproof! Anyone else used this stuff, and how was the surface prepared for it? Also, how was it applied?

It seems that water based urethane may be fuelproof too.

With Mod Podge to bond tissue down to balsa, is a totally water base finish possible?

One real advantage of water based stuff is that you can apply it no matter what the humidity is! It just takes longer to dry. In fact you probably get a smoother finish the longer it takes.

I am trying a few experiments on old models that need rework, but who cares how they turn out if not perfect.

One has carbon veil ironed down and a coat of WB Urethane so far (just applied, more info when it is dry). The other has light silkspan ironed on and a coat of Butyrate clear. More news as it develops!

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2016, 03:19:23 PM »

Larry,
I have heard that the Latex is fuel proof for up to 10%N. Problem is it is very heavy. If you use it I would first prep the surface so it is sealed then thin the paint so it can be sprayed. Do some test pieces to get the right amount of thinning. For spraying you could get the Preval Sprayer unit from Home Depot (about $ 5.00).

Best, DennisT

Larry Renger · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2016, 08:59:04 PM »

Yup, I agree 100% with what you say, and it is just what I planned to do. Plus, I am trying the finish out on a junk slope glider I am refurbishing, so if the fuel proofing doesn't work out, who cares!

So far, Mod Podge to bond down carbon veil, 2 coats of water base Urethane to fix it in place, then two coats of Behr sealer laced with cornstarch as a filler. Smooth! Incredibly easy sanding even with dry paper.

I will spray on a coat of flat Latex white, again with cornstarch added to make it a primer, then a coat of Latex gloss enamel as a final finish.

More news as it happens!

Brent Williams · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2016, 09:40:14 PM »

For a dope free paint system, how about using System Three WR-LPU Linear Polyurethane Topcoat? It is the same thing as the very good Nelson Hobby Paint.
Add the crosslinker liquid. Thins with water. Reported to be very fuelproof.

http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/WR-LPU-Topcoat-c29.htm

http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/literature/wr-lpu_color_card.pdf

Fewer colors than Nelson, but you can get 4oz bottles of the System Three for $5.00

Larry Renger · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2016, 07:35:07 AM »

Thanks, I'll look into that. A friend just sent me a couple of articles by a guy who competes at the top level of scale. He uses Latex paints. He says they are gasolene proof, but not Glow Fuel proof.

I am really liking being able to finish a model while it is raining out! El Nineo take that!

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2016, 08:18:28 AM »

Larry
I can't find it, so sorry for not putting a link in...on RCU or RCG I followed a real nice scale model build thread where the guy used Lowe's Behr latex because he was able to take a sample of the color off a piece of the original full sized airplane (a sheet metal panel loaned buy the owner of the plane as it was having work done to it)

All wood was done from bare with dope, then primer, then white base coat, then the latex color coat and topped with KBS clear Diamond

He bought one the the KBS sample kits and the 4oz sample was just barely enough for the 36" wingspan plane....do not remember his thinning ratio but it was not 50/50...he did say that out of the can it is thin enough to spray and he added their thinner trying to get more coverage out of the dinky 4 oz sample

The latex was used simply as the easiest way to exactly match a color for his documentation of the scale model
The KBS was used as it is absolutely impervious to almost any solvent know to man

I have one of the KBS sample kits but have not tested it against 40%N yet

Crap...I am editing this in----you were asking about the fuel proof of latex. MY shop floor is plywood that I painted grey with Lowe's latex floor paint and after 5 years still looks pretty good and the paint is fairly durable but where I spilled small amounts of MEK, 100% Acetone, Xylene, or my Riche's Brew 35% it softens an bit and the clean up rag comes away with grey smudge transfer...mineral spirit or alcohol spills don't bother the latex

However this same floor has had a few spills of small amounts of Sig 25%N and some off brand 10%N fuels that wiped right up with no blemish on the floor or paint transfer to the rag

Don't know if this info is worth all that much becaus the floor paint was curred a few years while my wife used the shop for quilting before I moved in and put her in a new shop space

Avaiojet · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2016, 09:14:12 AM »

Aerosol cans beginning to end and 100% fuel proof.

Also painted outside!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2016, 09:54:02 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on January 07, 2016, 09:14:12 AM

Aerosol cans beginning to end and 100% fuel proof.

Also painted outside!

so Charles, ,you have flown this one to know its fuel proof?
thats aweseome somehow I missed the post where you flew it, ( or even ran the motor)?

Avaiojet · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2016, 10:51:30 AM »

Larry,

Here's another model I painted back in the 80's. I used all professional auto body equipment because I had access to many auto body shops.

I've never had an issue with two part auto paint clears and I've used them on many models.

Probably because of the weight of this product, some guys may only use it in areas where spent fuel is greater on the model? There was one modeler who mentioned he did this but I cannot remember who? He doesn't Post.

Dennis is correct about house paint and weight. Dennis builds and finishes his models really light. Errrrrr. LOL.

I actually thought I could use artist's water base acrylics, and I did, but they too are a bit heavy. I used them on the Mig-3.

For what I do, weight doesn't matter all that much anyway, but I have the ARGO II in the works and I may use dope to keep the model as light as possible. I'm trying to improve my building with each new model.

Learn by doing and you learn by making mistakes also, but I try to not repete the mistakes. So I won't be using water base artist's acrylics again, or at least not to cover large areas, like the underside of the Mig-3.

A lifetime of painting and I'm still learning. Check out Robert's construction and finishing videos. They are great!

Good luck with your other replies, modelers are always glad to help.

Charles

Larry Renger · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2016, 07:43:36 AM »

I got a reply from my buddy Andy on the fuelproof question. It seems that some latex paints are fuelproof and others are not. He has personally used Vista paints and tested them against pure Nitromethane. That brand, at least is the good stuff. And yes, he used it on a couple of models with good long term success.

The quest continues! I wonder if those paint chips the paint stores hand out are the real thing and could be used for no cost testing?

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2016, 06:13:41 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on January 07, 2016, 09:14:12 AM

Aerosol cans beginning to end and 100% fuel proof.

Also painted outside!

Have you fueled the airplane and flown it yet? You cannot make that statement until you actually put things into practice. Fly the model five or six times, get it good and juicy and wipe it down and see what comes off in your paper towel. And I don't want a "He said that it was" about the guy that told you what paint to buy. People need verifiable results.
This question of "is this or that fuel proof" has been beaten to death on the forums for years and years, and i can't believe it's still being asked after all the stories of trouble that people have with some rattle can paints and mixing types of paint. It's like the old saying goes, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and there is no "cheap" fuel proof paint in a can because the EPA won't let anybody make it!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2016, 08:57:47 PM »

I've flown rattle can rustoleum, (professional, painters touch, and stop rust, all gloss), with 25% nitro. It discolors a little, where the fuel tends to pool, but the color returns the next day.

Make sure you clean the EXHAUST off as that can be pretty damaging, but takes weeks/months to soften the paint.

Yes, heavy compared to dope.

Phil

Larry Renger · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2016, 09:37:30 PM »

Rust-O-leum standard colors seem to work well. The metallics, unfortunately, are hopeless, as is the standard clear. Supposedly there is a clear that is fuelproof, but I haven't found it.

For guaranteed fuelproof, great finish, Klass Kote is a "contendah"! And for the ultimate smooth, glossy finish, substitute part A clear for the hardener. Just never, ever touch the surface of the model again or try to use it. Ask Bill Byles how I know.

billbyles · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2016, 04:01:50 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on January 08, 2016, 09:37:30 PM

Rust-O-leum standard colors seem to work well. The metallics, unfortunately, are hopeless, as is the standard clear. Supposedly there is a clear that is fuelproof, but I haven't found it.

For guaranteed fuelproof, great finish, Klass Kote is a "contendah"! And for the ultimate smooth, glossy finish, substitute part A clear for the hardener. Just never, ever touch the surface of the model again or try to use it. Ask Bill Byles how I know.

Yup, most glossy finish right out of the spray gun I have ever seen - I was there the night at Warren's Man Cave when Larry sprayed it! Unfortunately, with Klass Kote clear substituted for the catalyst the airplane just sat there looking glossy but untouchable forever. Broke Larry's heart to have to wipe off all that gorgeous red & start over. Of course, I have never mentioned it to Larry since...well, maybe for instructional purposes. Larry is just waiting for my next mistrake about which I will never hear the end, I am sure.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2016, 08:18:49 AM »

MistRake? VzD~

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2016, 08:47:28 AM »

Polyurethane varnish, the stinky stuff, is quite fuel proof. It also comes in rattle cans. Available in clear or clear amber.

Phil

Serge_Krauss · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2016, 09:03:10 PM »

Phil-

How is the polyurethane over butyrate dope? One problem with these discussions is that we don't always lnpw when formulations are changed, and what we think we knew is no longer current.

Motorman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2016, 12:29:52 AM »

I've always been told you can't paint anything over butyrate dope because it keeps gassing off for years.

MM

Motorman · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2016, 12:32:55 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on January 05, 2016, 11:07:46 PM

It seems that water based urethane may be fuelproof too.

If you mean minwax polycrylic I think it's well know not to be fuel proof at all.

MM

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2016, 08:48:25 AM »

I have painted over aged dope with rustoleum. Wash, sand, prime, paint. Using a strong solvent will penetrate the acrylic paint and cause the dope to soften and slough the acrylic. I had this problem with using balsarite, over rustoleum, over dope. Balsarite on dope is fine; balsarite on rustoleum is fine; it is the layer cake that makes a problem. Midwest Aerogloss was the dope I used at the bottom of my unfortunate layer cake.

Using rustoleum over dope without rustoleum primer did blister. Again this was the Midwest Aerogloss, aged a few weeks. The "professional" primer sticks fine to the aerogloss, and whatever my old Super Ringmaster was painted with (I got it second+ hand), and gloss color sticks fine to the primer.

I suspect, but have not tested, that there will be a similar result with polyurethane over dope, if a strong solvent is used. My wooden field box is polyurethane spray over some unknown clear finish. The box is over 30 years old so if it is a dope finish, then, heh, "well aged" is the truth. It did have a fuel proof clear of some nature on it prior to cleaning and spraying a fresh layer of clear poly onto it. Lots of washing, and just a little sanding was involved prior to the fresh coat.

Polyurethane over modern lacquer paint, which I believe is nitrocellulose, (Valspar) seems to have held up to fuel, but I have not abused it further. It is on a (broken) 300 ft tape measure reel that I take to the field... I probably spent more time and money trying to "fix" this that I spent replacing it, even though the paint was the only not-scrap materials. (lol...) My prep was minimal between the two products. The lacquer was aged at least a week, more likely 2 or 3.

My house paint experiment was on foam board for electric RC, and involved sponge painting to keep the weight down using a wet sponge to slightly dilute the paint. This process provided adequate cosmetic finish, and was lighter than simply brushing. I have no comment on how resistant is is to fuel or solvent.

Phil

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2016, 11:44:36 AM »

The first mention I ever heard about latex house paint for models was in a R/C kit that came out years ago, like 25 years ago or more, that was all foam with some balsa and hard wood construction for strength. Some sort of R/C combat model. The plans called for finishing with latex house paint as this also sealed the foam, given it's thick viscosity. I never tried it and doubt that I ever will. I just can't remember that name of the kit or company. The only rattle can finish process that I recommend to any one is what Allen Brickhaus came up with. It works, is relatively light and can be repaired fairly easily after crashes.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

JIM Nordin · « **Reply #21 on:** January 11, 2016, 03:04:48 PM »

A flying buddy of mine painted his 1/3 scale later 200 plane with latex hours paint Bout 20 years ago . Then used automotive clearcoat over it . It came out about 20 pounds . Not bad on a 1500 SQ IN plane fully sheeted

Ther are a ton of threads on RC Groups and RC universe . And Google on the subject

Avaiojet · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2016, 08:48:12 AM »

Quote from: JIM Nordin on January 11, 2016, 03:04:48 PM

A flying buddy of mine painted his 1/3 scale later 200 plane with latex hours paint Bout 20 years ago . Then used automotive clearcoat over it . It came out about 20 pounds . Not bad on a 1500 SQ IN plane fully sheeted

There are a ton of threads on RC Groups and RC universe . And Google on the subject

Jim,

Interesting. Think this is the model?

This guy said he used Benjamin Moore Paints, had to be latex I'm guessing? Yes, a customer, I did the graphics. The model was cleared with a two part auto clear by my recommendation. Gas, not nitro.

He cleared the graphics and all, but not on my recommendation. He applied the graphics then decided to clear the model. He just wanted to be sure.

My graphics can be cleared and many guys clear them, but once they are cleared they cannot be removed.

That auto two part clear is great stuff. I've been using it as far back as the 80's, right up until this day on all my CL models.

However, I might use color dope on the ARGO II, but I will clear it with a two part auto clear.

I believe Robert uses Sherwin Williams brand for his two part auto clear finishes. I think?