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Author Topic: Applying Carbon Veil  (Read 1555 times)

Offline JHildreth

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Applying Carbon Veil
« on: April 10, 2019, 08:24:38 PM »
I am preparing to apply the carbon veil to my FW 190.  In my past experiences with the veil material I have had to hassle with getting the wrinkles to settle after the dope is applied.  None of my efforts have been totally successful and I end up sanding the offending wrinkles out.  Is there a better way to eliminate or at least minimize the wrinkles in the veil material and get it to lay flat?

Second question.  This is somewhat related to the previous issue in that it involves ensuring that the veil stays put.  This issue is how to make the veil stay put over the leading edge.  The curvature of the leading edge makes the veil want to lift.  How can I get the veil to lay on the curvature while the dope sets?

Joe

Offline TDM

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Re: Applying Carbon Veil
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2019, 06:48:47 AM »
3M77 (make sure tip of can is clean use acetone of something like that to clean if you have to) lay the veil on a flat surface. Spray 2-3ft above the veil horizontal direction sparingly and let it "rain" on the veil. At his point is very easy to lay on surface and it will stay wherever you place it. The 3M will dissolve when you dope the model and it doesn't add any weight.
That being said veil is only good for a more user friendly handling the model: it prevents nails punching through, makes the model more wear resistant, and it will get a harder surface. It does not add strength.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Applying Carbon Veil
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2019, 07:18:46 AM »
I am preparing to apply the carbon veil to my FW 190.  In my past experiences with the veil material I have had to hassle with getting the wrinkles to settle after the dope is applied.  None of my efforts have been totally successful and I end up sanding the offending wrinkles out.  Is there a better way to eliminate or at least minimize the wrinkles in the veil material and get it to lay flat?

Second question.  This is somewhat related to the previous issue in that it involves ensuring that the veil stays put.  This issue is how to make the veil stay put over the leading edge.  The curvature of the leading edge makes the veil want to lift.  How can I get the veil to lay on the curvature while the dope sets?

Joe

Hi Joe,

I have no idea what process you are using to apply the veil but you might do a search on here for Phil Granderson and how he applied CF Veil.  I followed the steps he used and had no issues with applying the material.  Personally, I quit using CF veil because of the cost but it is still a great way to get a smooth finish. If I can find that article on here I will post it for you.

Mike

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Applying Carbon Veil
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2019, 07:28:01 AM »
Joe, I took this off of RSMs website and I hope this helps.  It was written by Phil Granderson himself and Eric Rule posted it on his website.

Mike

My current finishing method is Certified or Randolph color with automotive toners added to get those colors not available off the shelf, talc filler/sanding sealer and final coat of Automotive Clear coat. The result has been 18/19 points under some very critical judging.
 
Here's the process: Sand all bare wood smooth with 320. Apply 2 brushed coats of Clear thinned 30%. Sand lightly with 600. Cover all wood with .02 oz. carbon veil. Apply 2 more brushed coats of the same clear mixture. Again sand lightly with 600. 
 
Pour some full strength clear in a large container with a good sealing lid. Now dump in as much Talc as will stay suspended in the dope (allow about 10 minutes to settle) Next, very important step is to mix in a small amount of Black dope, just enough to make a very light gray. The very best Talc I have ever used comes from Tap Plastics. It has no odder or oils. Next, thin this mixture only enough to get it through your spray gun. I use a big ugly gun with pressure feed, they're cheap and readily available at Sears. Spray on a medium heavy coat of this stuff. Let it dry a day. Now here's the really cool part. You're gonna sand off 80 to 90% of this and you'll hardly break a sweat! This stuff powders like crazy! It took only 3 hours to sand an entire classic ship leaving only enough to fill. Now since this mixture is gray you will be able to tell the low spots and areas that need more work. No need to get out the spray gun, just spot these areas with a brush and sand. Once everything is uniform thin some clear dope 80% that right 80% and spray on a quick wet
coat! 
 
Color: Thin all colors 50 to 60% with and spray on dry. Just enough to cover, don't worry about shine, blushing or even being a little rough. Once all colors are on. Spray on 2 coats of clear thinned 60%. Again don't worry about shine or blush. Lightly sand everything with 800 wet being careful not to sand through the clear coats. Finally once everything is sanded CLEAN EVERYTHING WITH WINDEX. CLEAN IT AT LEAST 2 TIMES USING WINDEX. I usually do this procedure 4 times. Degreasers such as Prepsol or AcryliClean don’t get the job done. What you really want to do with cleaning is remove everything that is not fixed permanently to the surface. The reason for all the cleaning is I discovered that just about all of the dust particles that end up in the clear coat are on the plane to begin with. Very little comes from the air. Once you have cleaned and re-cleaned go over everything with a tack cloth several times being careful to apply only light pressure.  Now you’re ready for the main event. Lightly apply 1 coat of Automotive Clear. I use PPG Global Performance System Clear D893 and D871 Medium thinner/reducer (this is very different stuff from the DAU 75). This is a 3-part paint, clear, catalyst, and reducer. I use 50% reducer to get a water thin mixture. I also use a gravity fed touch-up gun to put on a very light but even coat. The PPG is dust free in about 10 minutes and the model can be handled in about 2 hours. Your plane will shine like glass at this point and depending on how much dust you have in your spray area you just might be finished! If there is dust fear not. Wet sand with 1200 or 1500 (which ever you have the patience for) and rub out. This whole process added 9 oz. to a fairly large 750 sq. piped ship that has a lot of fuse, rudder and cheek cowls. It only took 6 oz. for my Vulcan classic ship. While I've heard of 4 to 6 oz. finishes by others I have never been able to get it that light no matter how hard I try. The weight of this is quite reasonable and very fast and easy. Hope this helps.
 

Offline Curare

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Re: Applying Carbon Veil
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 12:20:03 AM »
Be sure to use carbon veil that has NO binder in it. I use it all the time and dope holds it down with no effort. The stuff with  binder is not soft and tends to hold folds and wrinkles.  When ordering it ask for the soft stuff with no binder. D>K

I think this might explain why my last effort was a complete flop. The veil was stiff as a board!
Greg Kowalski
AUS 36694


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