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Author Topic: Aerogloss Question  (Read 1029 times)

Offline carl30

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Aerogloss Question
« on: February 18, 2023, 12:49:52 PM »
Hello,

I still have some old Aerogloss and a box of Clear Gloss and Flat I bought before Midwest stop producing.  I know there has always been a debate on if Aerogloss is a Butyrate or Nitrate.  I have the last SDS sheet that shows Aerogloss was a Nitrate dope, but what in the SDS list makes it " Hot Fuel Proof "  and what makes it an Acrylic Lacquer since it has Nitrocellulose? 

Just curious,
David

Offline carl30

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2023, 12:50:51 PM »
Couple More SDS sheets

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2023, 01:18:32 PM »
Hello,

I still have some old Aerogloss and a box of Clear Gloss and Flat I bought before Midwest stop producing.  I know there has always been a debate on if Aerogloss is a Butyrate or Nitrate.  I have the last SDS sheet that shows Aerogloss was a Nitrate dope, but what in the SDS list makes it " Hot Fuel Proof "  and what makes it an Acrylic Lacquer since it has Nitrocellulose? 

Just curious,
David

  It is not nitrate or butyrate dope, it is not "dope" in the model airplane sense. It is acrylic lacquer (which might use a nitrocellulose lacquer as a base)

     Brett

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2023, 01:29:17 PM »
Hello,

I still have some old Aerogloss and a box of Clear Gloss and Flat I bought before Midwest stop producing.  I know there has always been a debate on if Aerogloss is a Butyrate or Nitrate.  I have the last SDS sheet that shows Aerogloss was a Nitrate dope, but what in the SDS list makes it " Hot Fuel Proof "  and what makes it an Acrylic Lacquer since it has Nitrocellulose? 

Just curious,
David

      The old adage is that you can put Aerogloss over anything, but you can't put anything else over Aerogloss, I think!!  It's the ISOBUTYL ACETATE in it that makes it Butyrate dope. At one time years ago, I read where that a guy had Aerogloss thinner analyzed and it had something like 14 different solvents in it. In recent years, you read on here that some guys have had success using MEK or some other auto body thinners with some success just to be able to use it because they are matching it ion an old model they are restoring    The  ISOBUTYL ACETATE is 20 to 30% of it's make up, and the NITROCELLULOSE is only 1 to 5%.  You need to compare those percentages to any other kind of butyrate dope to see how they measure up. The thinner HSDS sheet is 8 pages long!! That may give some credence to  the story that some one had it analyzed and they found 14 different solvents in it!!  I have given away a lot of Aerogloss to guys looking to restore an old model, and it works out fine. It has MEK in it already so that's probably why it works as a thinner.. If you have it, use it! Especially on a small model where you don't need a lot. Might as well use it rather than some one throwing it away. SIG dope is going off the market and who knows what the future holds for Brodaks these days in this economy.  That's my uneducated wild ass guess!
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee       
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Offline carl30

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2023, 05:31:15 PM »
Here are some pictures of my products. First, you can see the old small bottle of Aerogloss sanding sealer is still crystal clear, it has been open but no yellowing. Also you can read the label for filler and sealer that it is not hot fuel proof. I am guessing these two products are a true Acrylic Lacquer since they have not yellowed over time. The Midwest Gloss Aerogloss dope is starting to turn yellow, but I have had this for 10 years maybe. I am guessing this is a "water white Nitro lacquer" The Yellow dope is a Sig Nitrate that I have had for a few years. The super clear dope is Sig-Lite, no signs of yellowing and I don't know why. I have noticed most butyrate dopes yellow, but by Sig Super coat has not.

Offline carl30

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2023, 05:33:12 PM »
Some more

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2023, 10:05:24 PM »
    The Midwest Aerogloss Clear in the larger jar came well after the original Aerogloss that Pactra put out. They marketed that and sanding sealer aimed at the Pinewood Derby market when it grew several years ago, and instead being a one time of year thing, goes on almost year round now and isn't limited to the Cub Scouts. They never marketed colors, that I can remember. Regular hobby shop spray paints would go over it, as I recall, but don't remember if it was the enamels or the lacquers, as both are available. When I worked at a local Hobby Shop, we carried it for a short while but then became unavailable. The biggest advantage of the Midwest product was it came in small bottles and the 4 ounce jars. I think their thinner was only packaged that way also at that time. With SIG products available at the time it was no big deal. It may very well be an acrylic lacquer. I never tried it to see if it would hold up to a fuel spill. The original Aerogloss was tough stuff, and it was "hot fuel proof" as far as I can remember. . That's what others have remembered about it also, and another reason for finding what they need to restore an old model if they intended to fly it. Just test it thoroughly and if any doubt, save it for small jobs where you can use it up. If it is in the acrylic lacquer range of things. SIG, Brodaks, or Randolph's may go over it, especially if you let it gas off for a couple of weeks.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline kevin king

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2023, 11:31:04 PM »
 ;D Aero gloss is the bogie man of dopes.

Offline carl30

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2023, 07:16:59 AM »
Here is Sig Supercoat Butyrate dope SDS and their Thinner.  Their thinner can be used with all Nitrate, Butyrate Dopes and I think it even works with Aerogloss.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2023, 09:45:12 AM »
SIG dope is going off the market...

My understanding is that Sig dope is repackaged Certified dope -- and you can still get that from Wicks and Aircraft Spruce.

Unfortunately, the smallest containers thay have are quarts, but hey -- at least that's reasonable for white and clear.
AMA 64232

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Offline Art Schmitt

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2023, 09:54:56 AM »
So, about 15 or 20 years ago I inherited about 2 milk crates full of Aerogloss (from the smallest jars to a LOT of the 4 oz jars and 8 and 16 oz cans) from my then father in law.
Some had dried out, some didn't.
I have been using Brodak's Butyrate Thinner with great results, I even saved a totally dried out jar or three (many more to go!).
So, if anyone has old Aerogloss, I'd be happy to take it off your hands! 

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2023, 10:19:10 AM »
I think Aero Gloss was called dope because no other word to describe it.  Strange stuff, because it was reasonably fuel proof, and a single-part system.  I do not remember the color coming off and showing up on the rag during cleaning.  Regular butyrate, on the other hand, has very limited fuel resistance and will stain a rag rather easily.

I have no idea what the formulation of Aero Gloss was, as compared to today's acrylic lacquer products.  I tried some acrylic lacquer, at least that is what it said on the label.  The fuel resistance was minimal, if any at all.  I wonder if, due to EPA regulations, the formulations have changed over time and the components that produced the desirable qualities of some products are no longer allowed.

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2023, 07:13:57 PM »
Some had dried out, some didn't.
I have been using Brodak's Butyrate Thinner with great results, I even saved a totally dried out jar or three (many more to go!).
So, if anyone has old Aerogloss, I'd be happy to take it off your hands!

Me too. Mine came from a closed hobby shop. Here is how I reconstitute mine:
https://youtube.com/shorts/e44PjHmhjc8?feature=share

Offline Dennis Holler

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2023, 09:34:57 PM »
Nice Jim, I have a small rok tumbler that I spin some of my paints in, but that "shaker" would probably be more quicker lol.
I've started plenty...would be nice to finish something!!!

Offline Art Schmitt

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2023, 08:58:07 AM »
Me too. Mine came from a closed hobby shop. Here is how I reconstitute mine:
https://youtube.com/shorts/e44PjHmhjc8?feature=share

Dammit Jim!
How'd you make it look so easy??? (Gotta quit over thinking things)  HB~>

Offline carl30

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2023, 09:05:09 AM »
I think Aero Gloss was called dope because no other word to describe it.  Strange stuff, because it was reasonably fuel proof, and a single-part system.  I do not remember the color coming off and showing up on the rag during cleaning.  Regular butyrate, on the other hand, has very limited fuel resistance and will stain a rag rather easily.

I have no idea what the formulation of Aero Gloss was, as compared to today's acrylic lacquer products.  I tried some acrylic lacquer, at least that is what it said on the label.  The fuel resistance was minimal, if any at all.  I wonder if, due to EPA regulations, the formulations have changed over time and the components that produced the desirable qualities of some products are no longer allowed.

I am sure the EPA and California Regs having something to do with it.   A rep at Midwest told me this is the reason they stopped making Aerogloss.

Offline Art Schmitt

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2023, 12:20:01 PM »
I am sure the EPA and California Regs having something to do with it.   A rep at Midwest told me this is the reason they stopped making Aerogloss.

Yeah, I don't quite understand how so many things here in California cause cancer but are ok everywhere else  ::)

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Aerogloss Question
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2023, 05:23:15 PM »
Yeah, I don't quite understand how so many things here in California cause cancer but are ok everywhere else  ::)

    A perfect example of an attempt at "social engineering". The theory was that if you put big scary signs on things, the public would rise up and demand that these terrible cancer-causing agents be banned and everyone would have to comply. Of course, there was neither money nor alternatives for 99.99% of the offending substances, and so many things are on their list of "potential carcinogens" so there is no way to actually change even with a public outcry.

    Of course, being imbeciles, none of this ever occurred to them, and they put so much stuff on their glorious list, that absolutely every building or substance in the state has this big yellow warning sign so it became ubiquitous and ignored almost as soon as this law was implemented, and it accomplished absolutely nothing. But, being imbeciles, they are never going to give up on their flawed idea, they will stick to it like glue to the bitter end. Not every single one, but on the average "environmentalists" are among the most stupid, gullible, and self-righteous people on earth.

    They are also generally against any real solution to an environmental problem (like nuclear power) because it doesn't mean severe hardships and destruction of western civilization. They decided that was the solution long before they identified any real problem and they are incapable, as a group, and making any sort of real contribution to the very real issue of pollution and maintaining the environment. We all have a stake in the environment - because we all *live in it* - but unless you hold exactly the same ideas as the rest of them, you are not demonstrating the correct degree of histrionic dread, and therefore not worth listening to.

   More hand-wringing emotionalism.

    Brett
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 09:39:45 AM by Brett Buck »


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