For those who mix their own??

[frank mccune]

      Hello All:

       I would like to ask you people a few basic questions:

       How much alcohol do you purchase in bulk?

       How do you store your alcohol?

       How much fuel do you mix at one time?

       How do you store and transport your mixed fuel?

       I have been given many suggestions concerning what to do by mostly people who do mix their fuel.

                                                                                                                      Tia,

                                                                                                                       Frank McCune

[Dan McEntee]

  I don't mix my own fuel, primarily because I don't have what I think is a good, safe place to store the ingredients.  That would mean to me, a place witha cool, dry environment with no direct sun light. If I had such a place, the next thing I would want is some sort of bladder system to store and dispense the liquids, something that would not allow air to displace the liquid removed. I don't know if such containers exist, but that is what I would look for and invest in. I will watch this thread with some interest in the subject.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Garf]

I buy 5 gallons of methanol at a time and transfer it to 1 gallon bottles used for methanol or fuel. I buy nitro by the gallon and transfer it to a quart bottle and store it in a dark cabinet. I store it all in an uninsulated garage in Miami. I mix 1 liter at a time using a graduated cylinder. I have never had a bad batch.

[frank mccune]

       Hi:

       Thanks for the replies.

       I never had a bad batch of home brew until the last batch.  See my post re water in the fuel.  I have no idea of what happened to the last batch but it would not run in my engines.  Some engines would not fire at all and some would burn off the prime and then stop.  I mixed new fuel with the same indigents and the engines started on the first flips!

      Any idea as to what I did wrong?

                                                                                                  Be well.

                                                                                                  Frank McCune

[RandySmith]

When I mix fuel I buy a  sealed 5 gallon pail of methanol, gallon of nitro  and  gallons  of oils, I will normally only mix 2 times, I will mix 2 or 3 gallons up first, then  the rest in the second mix, store in a cool dry place .
practice  LOTs   and  burn it up quick !!

Randy

[Steve Helmick]

"I mixed new fuel with the same indigents and the engines started on the first flips!"

Are you saying that you used the same batches of components and it worked? If so, my 1st guess would be that you swapped nitro for alcohol on the bad batch...nitro doesn't want to light afire without a fair amount of alcohol to get it going. There comes a point where there's not enough alcohol to light off the nitro, and it doesn't start well or run rich enough. You could compare samples for density to prove or disprove this WAG. Nitro is way denser than alcohol, of course.

Since some engines fired up on your last batch but quit as the prime was burned, this would be another tip-off...you would need to open the NV a couple turns to run on what would be quite high nitro content...guessing around 70%-75%. I did run as much as 75% nitro in speed engines, but with 5% Propylene Oxide to set it on fire. Steve

[Dan Berry]

Or doubled the oil.
Which would be pretty easy to do.

[Phil Spillman]

Perhaps the original container was contaminated to start with! The use of graduated cylinders is the key to the most accurate compounding!

Phil Spillman

[Dan Berry]

It looks like I am going to need to mix my own fuel.
I am needing to know exactly which Klotz oil to use. Can anyone help? Searching here hasn't given me enough info.

[Dan Berry]

If you want 100% synthetic oil then use Klotz Original Techniplate. The Super Techniplate has castor in it as does the klotz benol.

Another good synthetic oil is FHS 62R

MM

Is it just called Original Techniplate?
OK, I did find an image. I'm looking to avoid having to ship it. I know I can get methanol locally and I must believe that I can get oil as well. Nitro I'm not certain about. Shipping costs for fuel are a killer. My ... delivery boy..... from Texas might not be available for a while.

[Randy Cuberly]

I'm probably a little more extreme than most folks. 
I'm fortunate to have a 5 gallon Nalgene container (Very expensive and left over from a previous venture in chemistry) that seals just about airtight.  I buy my methanol from a local speed shop that is also extreme and keeps his methanol container (55 gal drum) topped off with dry nitrogen and sealed.  I buy Nitro in 1 gal jugs from the same dealer.  I buy oil (Klotz and castor) from SIG in one gallon containers.
I mix fuel basically 1 gal at a time.  I also fill the Nalgene container with dry nitrogen after use and re seal it!
I do this even though I live in the Southwest desert where the average year round humidity is only about 15%.
Methanol is very hygroscopic and will collect moisture over time if you give it any chance.  I don't keep mixed fuel more than a couple of months and usually a lot less!
Needless to say I don't have fuel problems.  That's my goal and it's worth the trouble to me.

No this may not be really necessary but like I said...I don't have fuel problems and a lot of other folks occasionally do!  Now if someone would figure out how to make a really GOOD glow plug!!! 

Randy Cuberly

[frank mccune]

      Hello Steve et al:

       Thanks very much for taking the time to respond to my dilemma.

        Let us take the suggestions for possible causes of failure one at a time.

1. I tested the alcohol and it was fine.

2. I doubt if I inadvertently increased the amount of oil as it would have caused the container to overflow.

3. The nitro proved to be good.

4.The needle valve adjustment did not have any effect.

5. When using the HP .40 the engine would run very well after being primed with fuel with 18% oil.  Other engines tried, did not start this way.

6.The measuring graduate was cleaned prior to use.

7. There was no mix up with the ingredients. Each additive was isolated whien being mixed.   

     I use a one litre graduate to make the math easier.

     As I am writing this, I am testing the fuel to determine the total oil content.  Will advise re the results later.

     All is not lost as this type of mental exercise is supposed to help delay or prevent the onset of dementia and/or Alzheimer's disease.  I think. Lol 

                                                                                                   Be well,

                                                                                                   Frank McCune

[frank mccune]

        Hi All:

        After completing an oil content test on the "bad" fuel I found that I had twice as much oil approx. 57%. than what I thought that I had mixed.  This did jog what is left of my mind into remembering that I did question the oil content when I mixed the last batch.  A senior moment? I going to have to adapt to "old age" when mixing fuel.  I think that it was Steve H. who suggested that it could be too much oil that was causing my problem.  Good call Steve! I thought that there was just too much oil on my hands, engine. and supporting accessories when using this fuel.  I could not grip anything and clean up was much more difficult. Now I understand why.

        A big thanks to all who tool time to help me in my hour of despair! Lol  Perhaps you too have learned something from my mistake.

       Oh yes, since using the oil laden fuel, my hands have never been softer. Lol

                                                                                                    Be well,

                                                                                                    Frank McCune

[Steve Helmick]

Dan Berry is the hero who got it right! I'd still speculate that some NV twisting would get it running, to correct for increased fuel viscosity. Meanwhile, do some math and figure out what it will take to make that oil-rich batch into proper glow-fuel. Unless you're already relegated it to weed killer status...  Steve

 

[frank mccune]

    Hi Steve:

     After testing the fuel. I found that I had twice the amount of oil in the mix.  I do now remember me asking myself, did I already add the oil?  I think that I can cut the new fuel concentrate 50/50 with alcohol and have the correct blend.  Test showed that I had about 58% oil in the mix.  I run a lot of oil due to me using many old style of engines.   Engines that have iron pistons, steel cylinders and plain bearings in the crankcase.  I have been told to stop worrying about mixes and just settle on a 17 castor,5 synthetic and 10 nitro for all of my needs.  I borrowed a  bit of fuel the other day for priming use and it was 16 synthetic 2 racing castor and 15 nitro/  The owner swore by this fuel as being all that he ever uses.

      I did talk to a chap who liked to use 12 and 14 percent total lube as it was easier to clean off of his plane.

                                                                                                 Have a great holiday,

                                                                                                 Frank McCune

   

[RandySmith]

 "  I did talk to a chap who liked to use 12 and 14 percent total lube as it was easier to clean off of his plane.

                                                                                                 Have a great holiday,

                                                                                                 Frank McCune "


And that blend  will, can, and has  wiped out a ROD  in  1  run, and  will  ruin your  old  non bearing  non bushed rod motors

I watch a guy with a nice running  OS 35S  ruin it in one  run with that fuel,  and  Watched a guy do the same with a FOX 35

Randy

[Dan Berry]

I would be hesitant to try salvaging the fuel.
My guess of doubled oil seems correct but you mentioned that the finished quantity was correct. That would mean you're short on alky or nitro. Guessing which might be a problem.
A small amount of fuel is cheaper than an engine.

[Air Ministry .]

THIS is what you need Frank ,



It should tolerate a bit of inconsistancy in the fuel . 



 

[frank mccune]

    Hello:

    I think that motorman has it correct but I aint very smart.  I will mix one gallon of alky and nitro and cut it with the oil rich mix.  This may give me a proper mix for two gallons of 28 oil and 5 nitro.  If I am wrong, kindly advise me!

     Matt: The twin HP is my erotic dream come true. It is like having a blonde on each arm! Lol Did anybody ever use this engine in a plane? I am smitten by the HP engine line.  A friend and a club member is a practicing psychiatrist, perhaps I could ask him.  However, I have seen his unfavourable responses to being questioned about "things" Lol I guess I could schedule a session, but  don't have the funds to find the answer to my HP lust. Where do you come up with all of your great pictures?
                                                                                                 Be well,

                                                                                                 Frank McCune

[Steve Helmick]

Google for "HP .40 Gold Cup Images", for example. Or "Mercury Mk. 20 Images". Or "Salma Hayek Images". Easy-peasey.    Steve

[Robert Dible]

I find it easiest to convert the percentages to fluid ozs to mix.  I have used old Formula One fuel (65% nitro), Klotz Technoplate from eBay, Sig caster oil and methanol from local track racers to mix fuels.  Primarily to avoid hazmat fees (oil ships without hazmat), but different engines require a lot of different formulations.