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Author Topic: Yellow stripes.  (Read 4362 times)

Offline Perry Rose

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Yellow stripes.
« on: January 06, 2013, 10:14:44 AM »
What is the significance of the yellow stripes on the wings of WW 2 fighters in particular the P-51? I have seen them on planes from many different units.
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Offline Jim Fruit

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2013, 10:29:40 AM »
Perry:

They were more often referred to as "Invasion Stripes". They were field applied during the invasion of Europe as an attempt to help everyone visually differentiate between the aircraft of the Allies and the enemy. With so many aircraft in the air, they needed an easy method to readily tell friend from foe. The stripes were applied to all aircraft, fighters, bombers, transport, gliders, etc. Not to say that they were never painted yellow, but I have not seen that color used. More often they were painted white.

Jim Fruit

Offline Steve Kocher

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2013, 10:39:42 AM »
Perry,

I know that on the early P-51s a yellow stripe was painted on the fuselage and rudder to help distinguish them from Bf109s.

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Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 11:18:24 AM »
Hi Perry.  Are you refering to the yellow stripes one sees on the leading edge of some fighters?  I have wondered the same thing.  Invasion stripes were always white, not yellow and went around the wing, not along the leading edge.  Anyways, good question and hopefully we can get a good answer.  Ty's answer seems to be a valid one.  Can anyone else confirm? H^^
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 12:44:16 PM »
Hi Perry.  Are you refering to the yellow stripes one sees on the leading edge of some fighters?  I have wondered the same thing.  Invasion stripes were always white, not yellow and went around the wing, not along the leading edge.  Anyways, good question and hopefully we can get a good answer.  Ty's answer seems to be a valid one.  Can anyone else confirm? H^^

  I assume it was so you could see the LE during ground handling, particularly important on carriers.

     I have done the yellow LE thing on several airplanes just because I liked the looks. One thing I noticed was that it attracted bugs. Leave the airplane out, and there would be bugs all over the yellow parts, and nowhere else.

    Brett

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 12:53:13 PM »
Yellow stripes represent the aircraft is for training.

Charles
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Offline Rob Killick

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 01:35:27 PM »
Hi ,

The yellow leading edges on WW2 aircraft (predominately RAF , IJA and IJN) was used for quick "Head On" recognition.

Yellow stripes , running chord-wise on the horizontal stab , vert. stab and wings , were usually used as identification, also ...

The black and white "Invasion Stripes" were applied horizontally on the fuselage and chordwise on the wings . These stripes were applied frequently , "in field" and didn't follow a standard.

HTH

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 01:56:08 PM »
The "invasion stripes" were the black and white stripes on the bottom of the wings to signify Allied aircraft during the Normandy invasion. The yellow stripes are for various identification (leading edge for ground crew and to see if the plane is going or coming) and various squadron markings.
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Offline Douglas Ames

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 02:05:27 PM »
Perry:

They were more often referred to as "Invasion Stripes". They were field applied during the invasion of Europe as an attempt to help everyone visually differentiate between the aircraft of the Allies and the enemy. With so many aircraft in the air, they needed an easy method to readily tell friend from foe. The stripes were applied to all aircraft, fighters, bombers, transport, gliders, etc. Not to say that they were never painted yellow, but I have not seen that color used. More often they were painted white.

Jim Fruit

I believe your mistaking the colors of the Invasion stripes of the Suez crisis in 1956.
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 04:04:02 PM »
Below is a British WW2 Boston Bomber (I think but this is just from memory and could be wrong) with invasion stripes.

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Offline Rob Killick

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 05:12:49 PM »
B-25 Mitchell
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Offline Jim Fruit

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 05:42:20 PM »
B25 H in particular. With six 50's and one cannon in the front. I have a model of one in the basement.

JHF

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 06:14:16 PM »
B25 H in particular. With six 50's and one cannon in the front. I have a model of one in the basement.

JHF

Well....yes but I think no, because of it's RAF markings.  A number of these things were transferred or possibly even built by the Brits during the war and I think called the Boston.
On of the British scale modelers did a model and published it in I think FM during the eighties.

Hey Keith Trostle...know anything about this?

Randy C.
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2013, 06:24:02 PM »
Well....yes but I think no, because of it's RAF markings.  A number of these things were transferred or possibly even built by the Brits during the war and I think called the Boston.
On of the British scale modelers did a model and published it in I think FM during the eighties.

Hey Keith Trostle...know anything about this?

Randy C.

NO...you guys are right.  My aging brain has done it to me again.  It is indeed a B25 H.  A bunch were given to the RAF in1944.

Below is a picture of the Boston I was talking about... seems more like a B26...

Sorry for the error.

Randy C.

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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2013, 06:39:13 PM »
Not actrually correct. Most  WW 2 trainers were all over yellow.  He did state P51, and some of them had yellow on most of the LE so they could be ID'd in flight, especially during dog fights.  Day glow colors had yet to be "invented".

We shall see how many get this. For the NAVY planes the LE was yellow to call the ball. The LSO could get a visual on the wings horizontal parallel. Before they had the fancy stuff they have now. Like ACL.

For those who don't know the nowadays the pilot aligns up the aircraft and sets the glide slope and switches on ACL (automatic carrier landing) the LSO then calls the ball and waves off if any problems. I am sure there is a lot more to do but you get the drift. We have it easy compaired to WW2,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations

there seems to be a ton of opinions on why the yellow LE check here. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=yellow+leading+edges&oq=yellow+leading+&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i30j0i5i30l2j0i8i30.1538.8532.0.11485.16.14.0.2.2.0.138.1278.11j3.14.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.ifYxOCwYB7k&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.b2U&fp=c341db92e3d4d65d&bpcl=40096503&biw=1092&bih=665

But for the NAVY I am right. You ask How I know I am right? Cause I was there and saw some and asked a LSO. LSO Landing signal officer. 1973 we had a F4U on display by the tower at Miramar airstation with a yellow LE.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 06:56:20 PM by Robert Storick »
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Offline Mike Keville

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 06:42:37 PM »
...Below is a picture of the Boston I was talking about... seems more like a B26...

'Boston' was the name given by the Brits to the Douglas A-20 'Havoc'.
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 07:42:34 PM »
You are right as to POST Korea Naval aircraft, but during WW 2 NO Naval fighters had yellow on the LE. The Brits and IJN/IJA planes used it to get quick ID's during dog fights. I'll dig into my Aviation History books to come up with a reference. As to that F4U, I'll bet it is is Korean colors or not done correctly as many were not painted all that accurate when "stuck on a stick" in front of the main gate at some NAS.  The above references ares muddy as most replies on here. I know you painted Navy A/C, but not during WW2. This is where the question arises.

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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 09:50:18 PM »
Somewhere in one of my old photo albums (stored heaven only knows where after our move from a 3900 sq ft house to an 1800 sq ft house a year ago) there is a color photo of my father Randall F. Cuberly climbing into his F4U Corsair somewhere in the South Pacific.  I distinctly remember the aircraft because I used to stare at the photo for many minutes at a time as a young man and later after my own military service.

I remember the aircraft had two vertical yellow stripes on the rudder and the leading edge of the wing had a broad stripe from the fuselage to the wing tip that wrapped around the leading edge to somewhere on the bottom of the wing not visible in the photo.
The photo must have been taken late in the war because there is what looks like a radar module on the wing which is also painted yellow.
The other odd thing about it, at least to a young impressionable fellow was that it looked terribly beat up and patched where some of the color had obviously been painted over with paint that didn't quite match.

Now to clarify things my Dad was a Marine pilot and though qualified for carrier landings did not fly from carriers at any time during combat in the War.  So obviously this info means little in the discussion of Navy planes but does say that at least some Corsairs had yellow leading edges with yellow stripes on the tail during WWII.  
If I can find the photo, which is not very likely any time soon, I will scan it and post it...but don't hold your breath...I couldn't even find most of our Christmas decorations earlier.  Moving is a terrible experience!!

Randy Cuberly
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Online Trostle

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2013, 12:41:42 AM »
What is the significance of the yellow stripes on the wings of WW 2 fighters in particular the P-51? I have seen them on planes from many different units.

Let's get back to the original question about "yellow stripes on the wings of WW 2 fighters, in particular the P-51".  I am assuming the question is about the leading edge stripes that appeared on the wing leading edges.

I will not list the references for this information, but please understand, I have material in my library that provides the following information.

The yellow leading edges stripes were applied early in the war (WW 2) initially on the British fighters to help identify the British aircraft over Britain during the Battle of Britain so that ground gunners would not shoot down their own aircraft.  As the air war progressed after D-Day, allied fighter aircraft carried yellow leading edge stripes to again help allied gunners (on the ground and in the air) identify friendly aircraft.  In the case of the P-51 in its escort role with the bombers, the yellow leading edges stripes also helped the gunners on our B-17's and B-24's identify the P-51's from the German fighters, particularly in the matter where the profile of the P-51 is similar to the Messerschmidt Bf-109.   Some German fighter aircraft had yellow noses, but those were not so easily confused with the yellow leading edge stripes of the allied aircraft.  Later in the war (August 44), the yellow leading edge paint on RAF P-51's was removed to improve airflow over the wing.

Ty was correct in his initial response on this thread, including the comment that the Japanese used the same yellow leading edge so that their friendly gunners would not shoot them (in the air or on the ground).  I do not think there were any US Naval aircraft after the beginning of WW 2 that had any yellow leading edge stripes.

Yellow was used in a number of other ways to denote various unit markings on US WW 2 aircraft of all types.

Now, for some of the other comments made in this thread, the black and white stripes were added to allied aircraft in the European theater during and after D-Day and are often referred to as "invasion stripes".  These were added as chord-wide bands around the wing and bands around the rear fuselage.  These stripes were to be added on June 5, 1944 but were delayed for one day.  After the end of 1944, most of these stripes had been removed.

I am not sure what the comment above was regarding "yellow stripes for training aircraft". Prior to the war, British training aircraft were painted yellow.  After 1938, these aircraft retained their yellow undersurfaces but were camouflaged in the usual colors on the upper surfaces and half-way down their fuselage sides.  British experimental aircraft had yellow undersides and normally carried upper surface camouflage colors.    British aircraft that towed targets had wide yellow and black diagonal stripes across the entire bottom of the aircraft and sometimes around the entire aircraft.

Now, everyone is probably as confused as ever.  There are books written about this stuff.

Keith

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2013, 05:43:49 AM »
I have figured it out using all the posts. The yellow stripes are from le to te as in Ty's post and fig. 9a. I think he also mentioned that those stripes were used as 'group' markings. The model I'm working on is what I call 'less than semi scale.' It's an A-36 belonging to the Collings Foundation and has the yellow stripes mid way on the wings. As I was putting them on I wondered if anyone knew what they were for. Thanks to the answers I'm pretty sure why they were used. If you google Collings Foundation A-36 Baby Carmen there are pictures of the plane.
 Thanks again.
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2013, 05:48:58 AM »
Some of the WWII fighters had the gun ports covered over with fabric to reduce drag and noise (at least until they were fired).  If the guns were fired, the ports were recovered and doped with whatever colour was handy.  Often red or yellow.  Obviously in a big battle like the Battle of Britain they dispensed with the recovering, but when there was a lull in the action they covered the gun ports again. 
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Offline Hoss Cain

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Re: Yellow stripes.
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2013, 11:12:29 AM »
Interesting thread. The subject question is definitely a subject for discussion as the entire subject of aircraft painting. I have a book, rather large, USAAF Arcraft Markings and Camouflage, 1941-1947 that discusses a lot of stuff. The USAAF folks in the headquarters kept a lot of folks busy sending out new Tech Orders (T.O.) on an almost daily basis. It is rather comical.
Measurements were sometimes made within a 1/16 inch.  Absurd!
The fun is that I had a friend (George P.) back when I lived in the Chi-town area that was a Master Sargent in charge of all the painting and registration at one big base in England, WWII. They serviced all types of aircraft and had all the paint and tools to care for. He said that new T.O. changes were almost daily. There were definite small dimensions in many cases. Paint mixes were stated to the Nth degree. Well it was so bad that they simply used the TLAR method (That Looks About Right) to mix any paint. They used brooms and more TLAR to apply those colors to about where they should be.
Combat airplanes had more problems to be taken care of than some desk-jockeys trying to keep out of the war, by issuing new Tech. Orders. George's stories were great.
Unfortunately, real Scale Aeromodeling rules are about as comical as my book with the many changes within. Rather sad, in my opinion.  S?P
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