Author Topic: WOW what a fire (Read 5069 times)

bill rutherford · « **on:** October 15, 2014, 08:31:43 PM »

I was getting my Infinity ready for the Baton Rouge contest. The airplane is three years old but an outstanding flier. I had just installed a new Berger motor, controller and six cell battery. All was looking good, the new battery installed and ready to go Well all that was left to do was bolt on the bottom cowl. So I put it in place and put the rear bolt in .I then installed the wrong 4/40 bolt in the front hold down. Well it was a little to long and went into the battery. O M G the noise and smoke was something else. I picked up the airplane by the wing and set it next to the pool and got back. No way was I going to get close to the inferno. I went into the house to get my wife to look at the burndown from a safe distance. Well the battery just burned through till it dropped to the ground. The next day I took out the motor and it might be OK but the controller is junk and the front of the airplane is gone from the wing root forward. All because of a bolt that was one half inch to long.. Live and learn.. Bill

John Sunderland · « **Reply #1 on:** October 15, 2014, 09:09:17 PM »

There is nothing left to say on this one except

OMG!

Norm Faith Jr. · « **Reply #2 on:** October 15, 2014, 09:45:40 PM »

Improper thread protrusion...AC43.13-1b Chapt. 7 sect. 7 para. 3-36...Oh yeah! That's minimum thread protrusion...No help there. Not enough washers.

Norm.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2014, 12:16:12 AM »

A line from a Blues Brothers song comes to mind, "I may have given up on internal combustion engines for my New year's resolution, but I haven't given up smokin'!!"
Glad no one was hurt of any serious property damage.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

John Stiles · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2014, 04:50:42 AM »

Quote from: bill rutherford on October 15, 2014, 08:31:43 PM

......I picked up the airplane by the wing and set it next to the pool......

big ron · « **Reply #5 on:** October 16, 2014, 06:20:28 AM »

Don't guess you coming to BR

bill rutherford · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2014, 06:39:53 AM »

I'm still going to red stick but not with my infinity. I go more to be with my friends anyway. Bill

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2014, 06:42:13 AM »

Dang Bill! Good you could get it outside. Glad you are OK.

Dave

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2014, 09:50:52 AM »

That reminds me of the time I was starting my Madewell 49 on ignition in a Yates Dragon. I was using glow fuel. The engine was flooded and went "Bloop". And then I noticed that the paint on the side of the fuse was starting to bubble up. You just cannot see an alcohol fire in the sunlight. Just the results. At least yours smoked.

Rule # 1. Never let the smoke out of any electrical circuit. It's real hard to get it back in.

Doug Moon · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2014, 09:57:23 AM »

Was the battery covering particularly soft? Or was there an exposed portion of the cell, meaning it didnt have the factory shrink wrap over it?? It seems like you would have felt the 4/40 bottom out against the battery before it punctured the covering? What kind of battery?

Motorman · « **Reply #10 on:** October 16, 2014, 10:26:59 AM »

You have a pool?

MM

Randy Powell · « **Reply #11 on:** October 16, 2014, 11:31:01 AM »

Yea, Bill, see that's not good. I wouldn't do that again if I were you.

John Fitzgerald · « **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2014, 11:44:19 AM »

Does this say that e flight is every bit as hazardous as IC?

John Stiles · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2014, 11:57:44 AM »

Quote from: John Fitzgerald on October 16, 2014, 11:44:19 AM

Does this say that e flight is every bit as hazardous as IC?

There is a certain hazardous degree to nearly everything these days ain't there? Even a Xmas BB-gun!

jfv · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2014, 12:06:34 PM »

That's why God invented magnets!

John Kelly · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2014, 01:16:36 PM »

...that size DOES matter!

John Stiles · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2014, 05:26:42 PM »

Quote from: Bob Hunt on October 16, 2014, 12:56:54 PM

What it says is that improper maintenance procedures are dangerous no matter what the mode of power...

I'm certain that my old good buddy, Bill Rutherford would wholeheartedly agree with that statement. He's a full-scale pilot and FBO operator. In that world a mistake in maintenance could kill you. I salute Bill for his honesty in telling his story. He could have just kept quiet about it. He decided to use it as a teaching lesson for others.

Later - Bob Hunt

And a good lesson it is...my R/C buddy told me not to mess with the lipoly batteries, he said not to ask him why, except to say you'll burn your house down.

bill rutherford · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2014, 08:37:22 PM »

To answer Doug Moons question It was a brand new thunder tiger 6 volt 3200. There is one hell of a lot of power stored up . When it lets loose look out! I thought about sticking it in the pool but that would make a real mess.
It reminded me of a B29 that landed in a lake way up north in Alaska or Canada. These guys pulled it out of the lake and rebuilt it Changed engines and all that. Well they were about ready to fly it out , now there is snow every where and their filming the whole thing. They start the APU and it runs fine but it was not secured and it vibrated and broke the fuel line loose and it started on fire. There was nothing they could do so they all sat on folding chairs and watched it burn to the ground. There was no sense trying to be a hero and get burned or killed. Just accept it and watch all those years of work and money go up and smoke. Yea , I thought of that and just watched it burn. I should have got my movie camera and filmed it. Well next time I'll do that. Wait did I say that
Bill

john e. holliday · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2014, 09:27:30 PM »

Well Grandpa Bill it is great that you didn't get hurt or house destroyed either. As they say live and learn.

M Spencer · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2014, 12:28:56 AM »

Just As Well it Wasn't NEUCLEAR powered .

Still thinking it would've ended up IN the pool if I was there !

John Stiles · « **Reply #20 on:** October 17, 2014, 05:12:50 AM »

Quote from: bill rutherford on October 16, 2014, 08:37:22 PM

They start the APU and it runs fine but it was not secured and it vibrated and broke the fuel line loose and it started on fire. There was nothing they could do so they all sat on folding chairs and watched it burn to the ground. There was no sense trying to be a hero and get burned or killed. Just accept it and watch all those years of work and money go up and smoke. Yea , I thought of that and just watched it burn. I should have got my movie camera and filmed it. Well next time I'll do that. Wait did I say that
Bill

Been there, I wish I could get my wife to tell the story how I had rebuilt my old school Triumph Bonneville chopper, new paint and all, brand new springer front end and king/queen seat. When I fired it up it was backfiring through the new chrome scavengers, so I asked her to hold it up till I rotated the timing...she was on the left hanging on to the 6bend pullbacks trying not to drop it, I was on the other side moving the points backplate with the motor running....she was pressing her knee under the new fiberglass tank when it popped out of the rubber mounting and the fuel line came off....about then it backfired. I sat there watching it burn up 2 gallons of gasoline, the new tires, the new battery and the new tank; all adding to the black smoke.....dang near cried!

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #21 on:** October 17, 2014, 07:50:34 AM »

Nicely said Bob. I totally agree with you on all points.

RC Storick · « **Reply #22 on:** October 17, 2014, 07:52:12 AM »

Quote from: John Stiles on October 17, 2014, 05:12:50 AM

Triumph Bonneville chopper, new paint and all, brand new springer front end and king/queen seat. When I fired it up it was backfiring through the new chrome scavengers, so I asked her to hold it up till I rotated the timing...she was on the left hanging on to the 6bend pullbacks trying not to drop it, I was on the other side moving the points backplate with the motor running....she was pressing her knee under the new fiberglass tank when it popped out of the rubber mounting and the fuel line came off....about then it backfired. I sat there watching it burn up 2 gallons of gasoline, the new tires, the new battery and the new tank; all adding to the black smoke.....dang near cried!

What more would you expect from Amil carburetors , Lucas Electronics (the reason the English drink warm beer) and positive ground.

Garf · « **Reply #23 on:** October 17, 2014, 08:40:57 AM »

At this point in my "career", I choose not to get involved in another technology. Especially in one that hasn't yet been perfected and has the kind of danger that it does.

John Fitzgerald · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2014, 08:49:45 AM »

I have known some RC people in the past who kept and charged their LiPo batteries in an outbuilding out of an abundance of caution. This was in the earlier days of e power when I belonged to a club.
Batteries may be better now, I don't have LiPo and don't know. When I finally use up my substantial stock of fuel, I guess I will either have to go electric or quit. Glow fuel is not obtainable around here any more since Fox quit.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #25 on:** October 17, 2014, 09:08:54 AM »

Thanks Bob for your comments. I now wonder if there was this much trouble when gas power was introduced into free flight. Also when glow plugs were introduced to replace ignition. And a word of caution if you are flying a rubber band launched glider have a good hold on the stick/rod. Any form of personal intertainment can be hazardous if procedures are not followed. Thanks again from the old DOC.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #26 on:** October 17, 2014, 10:42:41 AM »

The thing to remember is that we are all fallable as Bill found out. It reminds me of a story about my former boss and friend. He was a great deer hunter and when people were complaining about hitting deer with their cars he blamed it on the drivers just not paying attention. One day he got particularly strong on the fact that people just do not know how to drive or they would not hit deer. The next day he was late for an appointment with me and I asked him why. He sheepishly told me a deer came out of nowhere and he hit it.

John Stiles · « **Reply #27 on:** October 17, 2014, 10:55:21 AM »

Quote from: Jim Kraft on October 17, 2014, 10:42:41 AM

The thing to remember is that we are all fallable as Bill found out. It reminds me of a story about my former boss and friend. He was a great deer hunter and when people were complaining about hitting deer with their cars he blamed it on the drivers just not paying attention. One day he got particularly strong on the fact that people just do not know how to drive or they would not hit deer. The next day he was late for an appointment with me and I asked him why. He sheepishly told me a deer came out of nowhere and he hit it.

Sounds like me!

I used to say that if people wouldn't speed, they wouldn't be able to hit deer. And Truthfully, I have asked everyone I knew that hit one how fast they were going...most just said too fast. LOL Then one day I was driving down a gravel road about 25mph when wonder of all wonders....a deer ran into the side of my truck!

John Stiles · « **Reply #28 on:** October 17, 2014, 11:00:33 AM »

Quote from: Bob Hunt on October 17, 2014, 07:19:34 AM

Alarmist posts such as yours, John, only serve to scare those who have no real information.

Bob Hunt

I'm not the alarmist you think me to be, Bob; I was trying to get him to sell me some of those new batteries when he told me that. I think he just wanted me to buy his old stock of NiMH batteries. He was using the lipoly batteries at that time and told me that my chargers would not be wise to use on those. At that time, I didn't particularly want to buy chargers, so I shut up about it. I'll try from now on to stay out of private threads.

Doug Moon · « **Reply #29 on:** October 17, 2014, 03:12:15 PM »

The chargers and their fail safes that have made things much safer. I know many RCers who feel the same way as posted above. But they were using Lipo before we had extremely reliable chargers that wont let you, or almost wont let you, charge things incorrectly etc... They have a good deal of fail safes now. But at any rate one should always take caution and understand what they are using and pay attention to detail. I use very large Lipo in my helis and charge only when I can be around.

It sucks that Bill lost his plane and at the same time it's great he ONLY lost the plane.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #30 on:** October 17, 2014, 08:48:03 PM »

I charge my RC lipos on the stove (HAHA I cook them for good! Really, the stove is heat proof, somewhat ventilated, and can be taken apart hot.) I have lipos in my phone that gets charged on my nightstand. My laptop has lipos. The technology is everywhere.

I can say there is a need for "screw shields" in a number of designs. How about a cut up plastic bowls or aluminum flashing with some double sticky to the back of where the screw comes through. Running a screw into a battery is no harder than running a screw into something else it ought not hit...

Phil

pmackenzie · « **Reply #31 on:** October 18, 2014, 09:09:54 AM »

FWIW the B29 that burned down was in Greenland

http://airwingmedia.com/videos/2013/story-of-finding-the-b-29-superfortress-kee-bird-in-greenland/

You can watch the documentory on PBS.org

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/b29-frozen.html

Pat MacKenzie

John Stiles · « **Reply #32 on:** October 18, 2014, 01:02:19 PM »

Quote from: pmackenzie on October 18, 2014, 09:09:54 AM

FWIW the B29 that burned down was in Greenland

http://airwingmedia.com/videos/2013/story-of-finding-the-b-29-superfortress-kee-bird-in-greenland/

You can watch the documentory on PBS.org

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/b29-frozen.html

Pat MacKenzie

Wow, I watched that whole thing....riveted, felt a similar emotion of loss when it burned down. Never saw that before...thanks for linking it!

John Stiles · « **Reply #33 on:** October 18, 2014, 04:52:41 PM »

Quote from: Bob Hunt on October 18, 2014, 02:34:11 PM

Hi John:

It's not you who was alarmist, but rather your "R/C Buddy." I guess I'm just a bit over sensitized about to this issue. Didn't mean to come down on you personally.

Later - Bob Hunt

No sweat, I been blown up by a mine, and shot at incessantly by communists in a foreign country, rode with outlaw bikers and threatened by rednecks with guns...my skin is thick enough to survive most things. Thanks for the explanation.