Low Tension Overhead

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

For low tension in the eights, move the leadouts fore or aft?

[Doug Moisuk]

This should be interesting. LOL

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

> This should be interesting. LOL

I've tried to get discussion of leadout position going before, but for unknown reasons there wasn't much.  Right now may be the ticket.

[Brett Buck]

> This should be interesting. LOL

I've tried to get discussion of leadout position going before, but for unknown reasons there wasn't much.  Right now may be the ticket.

    Generally, forward, but go easy on that one. The most direct solution is more speed.

       Brett

[Ken Culbertson]

For low tension in the eights, move the leadouts fore or aft?

All 8's or just the overhead?  My solution, especially to the overhead is momentum.  I was writing this when Brett posted so I will not expand.  Most planes would be fwd. but not always and be careful not to make an adjustment for one maneuver that makes others worse.  Another issue with tension in the 8's is wind position, my arch nemesis.

Ken

[Dennis Toth]

Peter,
If the leadouts are a little too far back you will lose line tension up top. One thing you will notice if they are back to far is the ship will be going slower. Move them forward 1/16" at a time and keep checking your lap time. You may also notice the ship hunting a little as the tail fights the fuse.

Best,  DennisT

[frank williams]

Move the leadouts forward and add a bit of tip weight.

[Dan McEntee]

   Look at how you enter the maneuver also also. That is a big part of it. If the model isn't tracking correctly when you enter, no trim change will help.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Ken Culbertson]

but how do you get it when the plane is overhead?
The Fiorotti timer.  It is called G-Force.

Ken

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

Moved the leadouts 3/16" forward. Liked the result well enough to do three overhead eights instead of two.  Tension in straight and level flight had been excessive, anyway.  No tendency to hunt.

[Dan McEntee]

Moved the leadouts 3/16" forward. Liked the result well enough to do three overhead eights instead of two.  Tension in straight and level flight had been excessive, anyway.  No tendency to hunt.

   Keep flying it as it is. You have some focus know on one or two areas f or a few lights,  so go back to flying the whole flights again and not put any excess attention in the over heads, and just see how the overall feel is from beginning to end.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[RogerGreene]

Or shorten your lines two feet to pick up a little more speed and line tension.

[Gary Dowler]

As most everyone has indicated, speed is what you need overhead. Rearward leadout position induces yaw, which adds considerable drag, which kills speed. Rudder offset and engine offset also induce yaw, producing drag and killing speed.

Brett, or anyone, as always, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here.

Gary

[Steve Helmick]

If the line tension is low on takeoff AND overheads/top of circle during hourglass and clover, try more tipweight.  Steve

[AMV]

 

[Howard Rush]

Moved the leadouts 3/16" forward. Liked the result well enough to do three overhead eights instead of two.  Tension in straight and level flight had been excessive, anyway.  No tendency to hunt.

That will cost you pattern points. Move them back where they were.

[Steve Helmick]

That will cost you pattern points. Move them back where they were.

Good one, Howard!  Steve

[Brett Buck]

I would also note that generally you have to fly faster than current airplanes in any sort of wind to deal with this kind of issue, because the airplanes were always pretty marginal in the overheads, with some really interesting pilot gyrations at times - like, going up on tippy-toes as you climb, and then pulling the handle lower and lower as you make discrete turns, winding up with your hand almost on the ground by the exit. 5.0-5.1 is definitely in the typical range.

   There were/are all sorts of these tricks, some of which you better darn well know if you are going to succeed in even mild conditions.

   The problem with that is that is also faster in the low maneuvers, and the windier it is, the more it whips up. Biasing the maneuvers (particularly the loops) into the wind was developed to deal with that. The Vertical 8 was always the most risky and I can remember getting to the top of the circle, slamming in  full down, then full up, and just hoping it pulled out high enough.

   But this is the sort of thing that made them noncompetitive as soon as you had piped 40's because you could just stand upright and drive it around, and the speed was pretty much always reasonable. Enjoy them for what they are, but, be realistic about it, you are swimming upstream against modern engines and electric. 

   Brett

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

> That will cost you pattern points. Move them back where they were.

Well, I did get pattern points at the contest.  However, the fact that one judge gave me a 40 on landing may have related to the fact that they were happy the motor quit. 

Peter