Author Topic: Wingover done right (Brett Buck 06 Nats) (Read 3871 times)

linheart smith · « **on:** July 16, 2006, 08:30:07 AM »

This is a Winning Wingover.

linheart

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2006, 08:34:00 AM »

Looks good but the truth is in the inverted pull out

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2006, 01:42:44 PM »

What I find interesting, is that the plane is nearly vertical by now and how much (or how little) it has travelled vertically from level flight. As you can see, there is still some down elevator applied.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2006, 02:07:22 PM »

Looks to me like the flaps are down...the elevators could be either down or up, not sure, but if the flaps are down, the elevators are up! We're definitely looking at the bottom of the model...pipe and LG clearly visible...plus I know Brett flies CCW. Most of our West Coast guys fly good, hard, corners.

Lots of guys get low pullouts, some even without a hop afterwards. But not that many actually go straight over the top of the circle, or follow the same path twice, or align it with the Judges even close. To me, that's the real deal killer. The RWO needs to SPARKLE...a really good one will get the Judges attention and put them in the mood to give you an extra point here or there.

Too many guys seem to treat these "easy" maneuvers as a place to relax. Nuh-uh.

Steve

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2006, 03:52:08 PM »

Steve,
You're right, it's on the upright pull up.

Rick Campbell · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2006, 03:53:39 PM »

Yeah . . . Brett's wingover is da bomb, but lets's see some "attaboys" for the photographer! Linheart Smith is goooooood. You should see the stuff he does for my newsletter! Nice to have a guy like him in the club.

Nice shot, Lin!

Rick

Joe Gilbert · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2006, 05:55:00 PM »

Look how much the plane is turned out , I have noticed on Elwyns pictures that our planes are flying in a crab. In full scale we would call it a half of bubble out. Good job Brett on your wins

Ron King · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:09:01 AM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on July 16, 2006, 02:07:22 PM

Too many guys seem to treat these "easy" maneuvers as a place to relax. Nuh-uh. Steve

Easy?

I've always considered the RWO as one of the hardest maneuvers we do, especially coming so early in the flight. Anyone who can nail one right out of the box will get double kudos from me.

Ron

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:15:03 AM »

Quote from: Ron King on July 17, 2006, 11:09:01 AM

Easy? I've always considered the RWO as one of the hardest maneuvers we do, especially coming so early in the flight. Anyone who can nail one right out of the box will get double kudos from me.

Ron

Boy you said it, I have never ever been able to nail the inverted pull out. I can ease it down to 5 feet but if I try to nail it I end up closer to 10. Funny part is I don't have a problem with the outside squares just that darn RWO...

Ron King · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2006, 12:26:04 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on July 17, 2006, 11:15:03 AM

Boy you said it, I have never ever been able to nail the inverted pull out. I can ease it down to 5 feet but if I try to nail it I end up closer to 10. Funny part is I don't have a problem with the outside squares just that darn RWO...

Amen, Bob. By the time I get to the outside squares, my engine is warmed up, my wrist is working okay, my brain is fully engaged, and I'm in a good rhythm.

My routine for the RWO is "Pull and Pray". I spot the field at least ten points in that one and spend the rest of the flight trying to recover.

I remember watching my friends do it back in the sixties. They looked so good and made it look so easy. Sigh....

Ron

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2006, 05:33:19 PM »

Yeah,
Personally, I believe the inverted pull out in the RWO the most difficult maneuver in the pattern.

Coming over the top and straight down makes finding a reference much more difficult than finding the bottom for the outside square. The outside square has a "straight and level" reference at a given altitude. The wingover does not!

The straight over attitude of the airplane makes timing the maneuver much more difficult.

It's definitely the maneuver that separates the "Men" from the "Boys".
It's also the one that tells the judges where you will be in "score". Just my opinion!

Dick Fowler · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2006, 06:42:34 PM »

Quote from: Joe Gilbert on July 16, 2006, 05:55:00 PM

Look how much the plane is turned out , I have noticed on Elwyns pictures that our planes are flying in a crab. In full scale we would call it a half of bubble out. Good job Brett on your wins

This is a great example of gyroscopic precession in action... note the amount of yaw out while the model is turning. You can bet that Brett doesn't trim the model with that much yaw in level flight.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2006, 08:24:04 PM »

Quote from: Dick Fowler on July 17, 2006, 06:42:34 PM

This is a great example of gyroscopic precession in action... note the amount of yaw out while the model is turning. You can bet that Brett doesn't trim the model with that much yaw in level flight.

It doesn't look all that yawed out to me. Of course, it does tend to weathervane when on the upwind side of the circle, and, the yaw angle tends to lag behind the tangent during hard cornering. just from inertial and kinematic effects. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it tells anything about the precession.

The only thing that surprises me is that it's that close to vertical that close to the ground. All week, I was really swooping into the upwind corners to make sure I got it vertical, and even the pullouts (which were much tighter) looked ultra-soft from the inside. Everybody else told me it was cornering very well, so I take their word for it. I would estimate that this is only about 10-12 feet up, and it started at 5 feet, which suggests a radius I just got done proving was impossible.

Absolutely fantastic picture-taking, by the way.

Brett

p.s. Come to think of it, when the heck did I fly on Circle 2 when it wasn't cloudy/raining? I must have been tireder than I thought.

Bill Little · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:10:25 PM »

Quote from: Ron King on July 17, 2006, 11:09:01 AM

Easy? I've always considered the RWO as one of the hardest maneuvers we do, especially coming so early in the flight. Anyone who can nail one right out of the box will get double kudos from me.

Ron

It takes so stinkin' long, in relation to the other maneuvers, to get over the top and then get down to the pull out position! IMHO, it IS the hardest maneuver to REALLY nail.
At least until you get to the Billy, Ted, Paul, David, Brett, etc., level.

I get too darn impatient with the adrenaline flowing at the start of the flight!!!!

Bill <><

Bill Little · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:13:14 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on July 17, 2006, 08:24:04 PM

It doesn't look all that yawed out to me. Of course, it does tend to weathervane when on the upwind side of the circle, and, the yaw angle tends to lag behind the tangent during hard cornering. just from inertial and kinematic effects. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it tells anything about the precession.

The only thing that surprises me is that it's that close to vertical that close to the ground. All week, I was really swooping into the upwind corners to make sure I got it vertical, and even the pullouts (which were much tighter) looked ultra-soft from the inside. Everybody else told me it was cornering very well, so I take their word for it. I would estimate that this is only about 10-12 feet up, and it started at 5 feet, which suggests a radius I just got done proving was impossible.

Absolutely fantastic picture-taking, by the way.

Brett

p.s. Come to think of it, when the heck did I fly on Circle 2 when it wasn't cloudy/raining? I must have been tireder than I thought.

Hi Brett, as far as the radius, it might be case of the "skidding" that Isky (??) showed in his stop action high speed pictures. The great optical illusion! The plane is pointed up but might still be sliding forward in relation to the ground.

What 'cha think??

BTW: GREAT WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill <><

Curt Contrata · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2006, 05:34:30 PM »

Look at the prop, you can see all three blades. Now look at the highlight on the top of the flap and the shadow on the top of the elevator. The model is still in rotation, still feeding down from the handle, and not quite vertical. 5' Radius is remains impossible.

Congrats on the win Brett, I hear it was a difficult contest and you flew well.

Curt

john e. holliday · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:41:12 PM »

Hey Brett look at the picture again. I think it was ovr cast as I see no shadows on the ground. Sure this wasn't finals day? By the way well deserved win. DOC Holliday

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2006, 03:33:39 PM »

Hey Doc, get your glasses updated

I see shadows, look just outside the white line to the left and up a bit

linheart smith · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2006, 04:23:53 PM »

The photo was taken Friday, 7-14-06 at 8:29 am.

linheart

Brett Buck · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2006, 04:48:36 PM »

Quote from: linheart on July 19, 2006, 04:23:53 PM

The photo was taken Friday, 7-14-06 at 8:29 am.

Thanks. Between all the driving (did the SLC-SJC leg with *one* stop!!) I guess I didn't recognize circle 3.

BTW, I would appreciate it if I could get a full-resolution version of this picture (and any other NATs photos). Email, or CD, I will pay any costs.

Brett

Elwyn Aud · « **Reply #20 on:** October 07, 2006, 05:12:26 PM »

O K. so it wasn't really quite a wingover!