Windy's profile Cardinal?

[Perry Rose]

When was it built? I couldn't find anything on it. I should have asked is it N-30 or classic legal??

[M Spencer]

sometime .





This seems to be done by one of Bretts favourite designers . 

[M Spencer]

More badgerring & debate here : https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/cardinal-profile-vs-pathfinder-profile-some-of-your-thoughts-please/



yr gotta try Brodak Cardinal . and Urtnowski Cardinal , if search is the trip .
Not sure how many times that wing flap has gone back & forward since March 13, 2018 . Maybe someone'll calculate it . 

[BYU]

When was it built? I couldn't find anything on it. I should have asked is it N-30 or classic legal??

The drawing shown by “Air Ministry” is of the Brodak kitted version.

Windy’s original cub yellow and blue prototype (which I still own) was modified for kit production and new drawings were created by John Miller to make the model more suitable for a kit.

The airfoil was changed, the nose ring added, the tail was made lower aspect ratio to suit balsa sizes better and the fuselage profile was altered to have more wood around the wing.

The design is over 2 decades old but is not N30 yet.

[Curare]

The drawing shown by “Air Ministry” is of the Brodak kitted version.

Windy’s original cub yellow and blue prototype (which I still own) was modified for kit production and new drawings were created by John Miller to make the model more suitable for a kit.

The airfoil was changed, the nose ring added, the tail was made lower aspect ratio to suit balsa sizes better and the fuselage profile was altered to have more wood around the wing.

The design is over 2 decades old but is not N30 yet.

I'd be interested to see some pics of this model, to see the differences between the brodak version and Windy's orignal.

[Perry Rose]

In the N-30 section there are plans for the full fuse. Cardinal. It's huge. Built like the Strega with a 3 inch thick airfoil, 38 ribs and a balsa tree trunk in the fuselage. I thought it would be the size of the profile.

[peabody]

There is very little difference between Windy's original Profile Cardinal and the kitted version. Windy used a Stalker 40, I believe and spent a lot of time with props to make up for the lack of power....

It's is certainly N-30 legit.

The full bodied version uses ribs from the Strega only with some of the middle missing to decrease the span. He never built a full bodied version. I believe that Reuben MacBride built the first version.

The Profile Cardinal has a thick airfoil and likes a bit more power...an LA 46 is ideal, although I have seen ST 51s used.

Have fun

[BYU]

There is very little difference between Windy's original Profile Cardinal and the kitted version. Windy used a Stalker 40, I believe and spent a lot of time with props to make up for the lack of power....

It's is certainly N-30 legit.

The full bodied version uses ribs from the Strega only with some of the middle missing to decrease the span. He never built a full bodied version. I believe that Reuben MacBride built the first version.

The Profile Cardinal has a thick airfoil and likes a bit more power...an LA 46 is ideal, although I have seen ST 51s used.

Windy did not use a stalker in the plane and YES, THE ORIGINAL PLANE IS DIFFERENT FROM THE KIT and predated the kit production by a year or so. The engines used in the original were a special Brodak K&B 40 (which lacked power with certain props) and then a custom setup doublestar 40 (fox 35 ABC clone version). It is not unusual for a kit maker to make changes that make a plane easier to kit and build.

The prototype airfoil was taken from the larger cardinal kit with central ribs removed. John Miller drew up a different airfoil that is similar but slimmer for the kit, Windy videoed the whole build including showing the ribs and where they came from.

The fuselage front top deck goes straight back from the spinner, whereas in the kit it rises above the wing to provide more side area.

I own the original and have carefully compared it to the Brodak kit. You were, as I recall in Windy’s back yard when we packed it up for me to ship it home.

It is NOT Classic legal or N30 legal yet as it was built sometime after 1998, I will look through my notes to find the exact original date of its build and also track down some more images.

[peabody]

I would beg to differ....
The last anyone saw of the original was that Sleepy had it.....Stalker and all

[M Spencer]

In the N-30 section there are plans for the full fuse. Cardinal. It's huge. Built like the Strega with a 3 inch thick airfoil, 38 ribs and a balsa tree trunk in the fuselage. I thought it would be the size of the profile.

Thats the 86 Version ,

This ' 92 ' is not quite so enourmous . Were hand cut Windy kits .





=========================================

This " Cardinal Evolution 40 " seems to be the animal youre after ! .



https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/my-first-crutch!!/

Now theres FOUR Cardinals .

[BYU]

I would beg to differ....
The last anyone saw of the original was that Sleepy had it.....Stalker and all

Why on earth would I make up owning it? It is boxed at the moment, I intend to bring it back to it's original condition when I get time.

When I get back from traveling i will take pictures and post them here.

[peabody]

Cool beans

[John A Miller]

Hi there

Perhaps I can add a little  help to correctly identify the reason why the Brodak kit is as it is.

About 20 years ago John sent me the plans to redraw. Looking at the plans attached to this forum, I feel pretty positive that the ones I received were based on the smaller Evolution Cardinal.

I took great pains, as I redrew them into Cad, so they would  be very accurate. At that time, (pre laser cutting) John would have me put the plans into Cad to make up his die cutting patterns into very accurate dies, by using the Cad files of the parts to lay them out. The resulting Dies would wind up being easier to create, and very accurate.

There was a very minor difference when it came to lofting the wing, and ribs. I had no file for Windys airfoils, only those shown on the hand drawn plan.

I wanted to be able to loft up as accurate a set of ribs as I possibly could. I spent hours modifying a root, and tip rib, until I had them both within a line width error, in a few spots, matching in the rest of the areas. Once they were that close, I saved them to file, then used them to loft up the wing, which also generated all the ribs.

A copy of the Cad plan is attached to one of the posts. Look at it closely ad compare it to the Evolution plan that is also attached to another one of the posts. I believe you'll find them to be very close.

I think that there was likely several iterations of the profile Cardinal, before it was decided to use the smaller, 40 sized design to create the .40 sized profile version. This would account for differences in some of the early Cardinal Profiles, before the Brodak Kit was released.

Best wishes
John Miller

[Reuben MacBride]

I built two of the smaller built up Cardinal's known as the Evolotion, redesigned by Elliott Scott because in England the cars could not hold a full size Cardinal. As for the original Yellow Profile Cardinal I remember seeing Elliott Scott having it and put it on Ebay . I also build the profile Brodak Cardinal kit and 3 of the Strega's.

[BYU]

Hi there

Perhaps I can add a little  help to correctly identify the reason why the Brodak kit is as it is.

About 20 years ago John sent me the plans to redraw. Looking at the plans attached to this forum, I feel pretty positive that the ones I received were based on the smaller Evolution Cardinal.

I took great pains, as I redrew them into Cad, so they would  be very accurate. At that time, (pre laser cutting) John would have me put the plans into Cad to make up his die cutting patterns into very accurate dies, by using the Cad files of the parts to lay them out. The resulting Dies would wind up being easier to create, and very accurate.

There was a very minor difference when it came to lofting the wing, and ribs. I had no file for Windys airfoils, only those shown on the hand drawn plan.

I wanted to be able to loft up as accurate a set of ribs as I possibly could. I spent hours modifying a root, and tip rib, until I had them both within a line width error, in a few spots, matching in the rest of the areas. Once they were that close, I saved them to file, then used them to loft up the wing, which also generated all the ribs.

Best wishes
John Miller

Thanks for your response John

I have copies of some of the original drawings done by Windy, as well as the original laser cut ribs, The airfoil of the kit and Arf are different to the original prototype (despite your protestations). It is possible you were not given the right root and tip drawing to work from or the software program you used to create (loft) the rib set was fed the wrong airfoil. In any event the resulting wing is not the same as the prototype built by Windy. Your version uses a thinner airfoil.

The evolution 40 size full bodied Cardinal came about after the kit was produced and was based in part on the yellow blue prototype built by Windy.

You haven’t covered why you redesigned the fuselage, changed the spinner size to 2 inch, or added the nose ring. I have made a guess about the modified fuselage but it would be interesting to know why you modified the fuselage shape from Windy’s original design.

[John A Miller]

Hi Brent (BYU)

Thanks for your questions. I'm sure that you have the plans from Windy as you describe them. I'm also sure that the differences between those plans, and how the design exists in the Brodak version are real.

I sent the plan that was provided for me to copy, back to Brodak when the job was finished, or I could show you where most of the changes originated. The ribs that where on that plan was what I worked so hard to duplicate accurately.  The airfoil used on the plan provided, wound up being very close to the NA6 6 digit airfoil, modified to more accurately match the airfoil on those provided plans.

As for changes to the fuselage, I did add the balsa directly behind the spinner. I did it to strengthen the front of the fuse, and present a better appearance. It's identical to what was used on 
other profiles I've drawn.

One wishing to be extremely accurate to Windy's design may, of course omit. This was the only change, I remember, that I made to the fuselage.

My lofting program is Compufoil 3d. a very accurate program. It duplicated the modified airfoil I used to a T.

I'll reiterate again. I modified a NA6, 6 digit airfoil to match as closely as I could, what was drawn on the plans. I did not use a stock airfoil from the programs library, as I found none that came close enough.

I hope this helps.

To me, it appears that the Brodak Cardinal results from a drawing not in common library's. The original, if not destroyed or lost, I used may still reside some where, perhaps in a box, at Brodaks.

Best wishes
John Miller