Author Topic: Windy's original Sweeper or "raising the Sweeper" (Read 7436 times)

EddyR · « **on:** October 22, 2008, 02:57:46 PM »

I like to start by saying to look at a old model built long ago and compair it to todays models is not fair to the builder or the model. This model was built around 1967 and was advanced for its day and it was a part of the learning curve for Windy to bring him to the wonderful builder he is today. The body had a large cut out where the wing was mounted as someone in the past was going to make it a take apart model.That cut out made the body very thin behind the wing and when Bob was transporting the plane to me his spare tire fell on it and broke it into several pieces. In the second photo I have stuck the pieces together so you can see how large this model was. I will glue it all back together someday so it can be hung on the wall as a profile,body and rudder.The parts I have went through a lot of changes.The rudder and stabilizer were thinner at one time and then 1/16 balsa was added after the model was built and painted. Color paint can be seen under the 1/16 balsa and the cloth hinges are covered by the 1/16 balsa.Also the 1/16 sheeting on the stab does not go through the body but stops at the body.The rudder looks like it was just a frame and tissue before sheeting was added later.. The wing spar is a yardstick so the wing has a very thin airfoil.It looks to me that Windy had gotten some kind of 1/4" blue packing balsa and use it to build this model as several parts have commercial writing on them.I think the cockpit is the most interesting part of the plane. Thats enough to get us started. I will add some more soon.
Ed

EddyR · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2008, 03:04:48 PM »

The nose is built just what you would expect from Windy.You could my a .90 in it today and it would not faze it.

EddyR · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2008, 03:11:36 PM »

cockpit

EddyR · « **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2008, 03:19:15 PM »

Several people asked me where is the wing. It was a I/beam and the wing parts are long gone.This is not a restorable project in the normal sense. Like the Titanic it is better left alone.
Ed

EddyR · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2008, 03:30:35 PM »

I was wondering if that was a "Barbie " seat belt in the cockpit?
Ed

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2008, 07:16:48 PM »

Pretty cool, Ed.
I used to see that thing in the rafters of Windy's old house's garage, which used to be his parents house, back in the late 80's. It was just as beat then, well maybe the spare tire didn't help!
Neat idea to make it a profile display, I have Dad's old AMA-68 tail sticking out of my garage wall in a similar tribute.
Those wheels look like Kraft screw together type, they are very sought after in the R/C Classic pattern crowd.
Care to sell the main wheels?
Chris...

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2008, 07:44:18 PM »

I dunno Ed, You have a noble plan and no doubt you are capable of pulling if off! However, there is so much to do - after all that work it looks like there would be very little "original Sweeper" left. How about preserving just the Cockpit area, maybe in a little display box...?

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2008, 12:56:52 AM »

Denny,
Eddy states he is going to glue it together and hang it from the wall as a fuselage profile display.
Chris...

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2008, 01:18:10 AM »

Hi Ed,
In your original post you state;
It looks to me that Windy had gotten some kind of 1/4" blue packing balsa and use it to build this model as several parts have commercial writing on them.

I attached the picture that I think you are writing in reference to and that is where the original paint job is underneath. The model in the article has the same cockpit as yours, and is what looks like metallic blue paint. The lettering on the nose looks like the Letraset fonts most available in the 60's and the guys just made it up as they went. Windy was a computer programmer, he made electrical references; my old man was a airplane guy, he made airplane service references.
Cool stuff, how about them main wheels!
Chris...

peabody · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2008, 06:02:58 AM »

Windy built another that was artfully restored by Dle and Derek Barry and flown at Brodaks a couple of years ago...John has it stored awaiting museum completion.

EddyR · « **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2008, 09:00:58 AM »

Chris & Peabody Chris, Yes those are the old screw together wheels and I am going to use them on a Vintage RC Ugly Stick. I have a original kit that I will build this winter. The writing is also on some balsa on the inside of the nose of the plane.It was on the balsa wood before he started to use it. {I think}
Peabody, The picture that you posted is not the plane flown at Brodak 4 years ago. The plane flown at Brodak is a D/tube wing and looks a lot different. The picture that you posted is the one in the article about the I beam version. I think the plane I have predates them both.It doesn't have a adjustable rudder that he talks about in the article. Maybe I have a early version of the rudder and he replaced it. The paint Job on the body I have is different than the one in your picture. John has the latter version at his place not the one in your picture. Bob Z did the repair work on the last one before he took it to Brodak and Derek flew it. He had flown it several times before he took it to Brodak. I may be wrong and it would be nice to know if there were three of these Sweepers. Maybe you can talk to Windy and find out more detail for us. {Note The things I have stated could be incorrect as I have only pieced together parts of the story as they have been told to me and my memory of the model that I saw 40 years ago.}
Ed

EddyR · « **Reply #11 on:** October 23, 2008, 09:07:58 AM »

Peabody I just went back and looked at the magazine artice pictures and the wheels and landing gear are the same as in the picture that you posted. This plane that I have must be a older version than the magazine article plane. Also there is no place to plug in for the glow starter wiring on this model as the article shows. The stab and elevator ends are round on the one I have and the one in the article are very sharp at the ends as are the ones in your picture if they could be seen.That pretty much makes this a different version. Thanks for the Photo.
Ed

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #12 on:** October 23, 2008, 12:51:31 PM »

Here is the one haning upside down in the Brodak Factory.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2008, 02:47:11 PM »

Quote from: Ed Ruane on October 22, 2008, 03:30:35 PM

I was wondering if that was a "Barbie " seat belt in the cockpit?
Ed

Maybe a watch band?

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #14 on:** October 24, 2008, 11:58:37 AM »

"Windy built another that was artfully restored by Dale and Derek Barry and flown at Brodaks a couple of years ago...John has it stored awaiting museum completion."

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

I did all the work on that plane at my home in PA. I brought it back from where it had been stored for many years (near Windy's house) and then spent quite a few hours cleaning and replacing the power plant.
Dan Banjock and I flew it in PA and then I took it out to Brodaks.

Bob Z.

ps - I'm pretty sure it has a foam wing.

Lynn Weedman · « **Reply #15 on:** October 24, 2008, 12:24:12 PM »

Hey Bob,
The Barry's did have a sweeper at the Tifton Airport when we held the one and only King Peach in Lew of the KOI being canceled. I'm not sure if they were the builders or not.

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2008, 01:49:08 PM »

Yeah, I think the source of confusion is that they built a replica for Mr. Shaw and flew it a couple times, I think once at Brodaks and the King Peach, on a PA61 Side Exhaust if I remember the one in question correctly.

EricV

EddyR · « **Reply #17 on:** October 24, 2008, 03:21:54 PM »

After spending a lot of time looking at the magazine article and the picture that Peabody posted and talking to a few people I believe Peabody's and the Magazine are the same plane and the pictures were taken at near the same time.The remains I have are also that plane but it has many changes done to it. The Sweeper at Brodak is a very different plane,not a I/beam.And then there is the one that was built for Mr Shaw that is a copy of the second Sweeper. The rudder I have is very confusing as it was a tissue covered open frame and some time later it was covered with 1/16 balsa but it is not a adjustable rudder as the article talks about.Also there is no place to connect a remote plug driver as seen in the magazine article pictures.The body is constructed nothing like the article and the cockpit is not a separate box as the article mentions. I my archives I do have negatives of this I beam version taken in 1968. I have seen the second version many times over the years and have a lot of pictures of it. When Bob mentioned he had the original that was a real interest to me as I had seen it fly so long ago and and thought all of it was long gone. Thanks Bob
Ed

Larry Fulwider · « **Reply #18 on:** October 24, 2008, 03:45:16 PM »

Ed --

The hinges are fairly hidden in the pics. What did Windy use? Hah, are they still free? Looks like they are still attached in a few places. The gap between the TE / flap and stab / elev looks remarkably small.

Larry Fulwider

peabody · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2008, 04:49:36 AM »

I stand corrected...thanks Bob! I believe that Dale and Derek's was orange?
I think a Pennsylvanian, perhaps Craig Gunder, built one....I have judged it, and in the hands of an Expert, it's just too big! Very little true vertical or horizontal in squares as it seemed to be always turning...especially if an effort was made to fly at 45*....
The one that Bob restored hung on a wall in George Venturini's place for years and years...

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #20 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:23:40 AM »

Hi, Rich - yes, that's the guy. I'm glad I rescued it when I did. I have a feeling that it would have met its demise had I not done so.

A bit difficult to get it in my van but I transported it to my house, got it squared away and then to the the Philly Flyers field for some test flying.

It's last journey was to Johns house.

I have not really judged it but I think you're correct - it's just too darned big.

Bob Z.

EddyR · « **Reply #21 on:** October 25, 2008, 08:31:36 AM »

In the article on the first one Windy says he flew it on 85ft lines and dropped back to 70 for competion. He mentioned flying it on 60 ft also. The hinges are cloth and still work.He built the stab from 5/16 and later added 1/16 sheet top and bottom to gain rigidity or to make it fly better so the hinges are not seen on the stab,they are covered up buy the 1/16 sheet. I like that idea and may try it someday to give hidden cloth hinges. I left the plane sitting on a table all day Saturday at the Hunterville contest but not many people looked at it. I assumed most people would know about this plane but no one seamed to have hears of it. Each time I look at it I find new little details. I think the design was doomed to wing failure as it was built like a much smaller I/Beam with a very thin wing. I have built 625 Sq" I/Beams with much stronger spars than this plane has. It has a 1/2x1/2 leading edge and trailing edge. I built one SV/11 I/Beam about 12 years ago and I used 1/16 sheet for the trailing edge just like a D tube wing.
Ed

john e. holliday · « **Reply #22 on:** October 25, 2008, 08:38:59 AM »

Some people don't recognize history when they see it. Like several years ago when Tom Lay brought an original NATS winning plane to VSC for people to see before he was to restore it. With my memory I can't recall the original owner or the plane. It was in bad shape. DOC Holliday

Larry Cunningham · « **Reply #23 on:** October 26, 2008, 07:38:19 AM »

Quote from: Chris McMillin on October 23, 2008, 01:18:10 AM

Hi Ed,
In your original post you state;
It looks to me that Windy had gotten some kind of 1/4" blue packing balsa and use it to build this model as several parts have commercial writing on them.

I attached the picture that I think you are writing in reference to and that is where the original paint job is underneath. The model in the article has the same cockpit as yours, and is what looks like metallic blue paint. The lettering on the nose looks like the Letraset fonts most available in the 60's and the guys just made it up as they went. Windy was a computer programmer, he made electrical references; my old man was a airplane guy, he made airplane service references.
Cool stuff, how about them main wheels!
Chris...

Windy was a computer programmer? Now THAT is a revelation. (I'll try
not to hold it against him..) <<Computer programming is not a fit occupation for
a human being.>>

The Sweeper looked huge and I always assumed, with its beautiful finish
that it was quite heavy. Looking at the shards, it looks even heavier to me.

Windy has always done "crash repairs". But I think I see why he didn't want
to rebuild this one.

Interesting thread and pix, thank you.

L.

"A clever man commits no minor blunders." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

john e. holliday · « **Reply #24 on:** October 26, 2008, 07:58:31 AM »

Hey Larry, as I learned in electronic switching school, every time someone picks up a phone they are programing a computor. Have fun, DOC Holliday

Larry Cunningham · « **Reply #25 on:** October 26, 2008, 11:54:02 AM »

Nowadays, every time they pick up a phone, they are using DSP..

I thought Windy had been some kind of project or work supervisor at
Philco Ford.

L.

A girl phoned me and said, "Come on over. There's nobody home." I went over. Nobody
was home! -Rodney Dangerfield

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #26 on:** October 26, 2008, 06:54:28 PM »

I think he did something with IBM cards that made computers do the job desired.
How is that?
Chris...
P.S. My friend bought an older 727 simulator from TWA that was made by Singer. It's programmimg was run by IBM cards and it flew pretty "sporty". Once it was shipped across country and installed in it's new home, a man came to help get it running again and reinstalled all of the cards as a restart process. One of the cards was found to be installed upside down and this was corrected. When the sim was flown thereafter it was a nice handling machine!

So...I took from this story that those cards were important to older computers.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #27 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:02:21 AM »

For you youngsters out there that is the only way we had of programming computors in the early days. You had to have a machine to make the cards. When I was much younger I worked in a plastic molding plant that made the card weights for IBM back in the day. On computors like the early phone system it was done by changing wires until the transistor came along. The transistor and diodes sure changed things. Now programing is done in the micro chips. DOC Holliday

EddyR · « **Reply #28 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:20:42 AM »

Chris Those Singer simulator were built by Link who was bought by General Precision who was then bought by Singer. Link was in Binghamton NY.They also built the Lunar Lander Simulator. I worked for a division of Singer and had AF clearance to all the Link simulators. I programed with wire jumpers plug to plug and punched paper tape on a Friden Flexawriter. I bet not many ever heard of that stuff.
Ed

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #29 on:** October 28, 2008, 11:49:30 AM »

Ed - this may interest you.

I just found a set of full-size plans for the sweeper I gave you.

If you want, I will send them to you with the undesrtanding that you would copy them and then send them to John Brodak for the museum archives.

If you are not interested, let us know and anyone else can have them with the same conditions.

Bob Z.

EddyR · « **Reply #30 on:** October 28, 2008, 03:43:42 PM »

Bob I sent you a e/mail
Ed

Author Topic: Windy's original Sweeper or "raising the Sweeper" (Read 7436 times)

Eric Viglione