Author Topic: Windsor / Master airscrew propellors UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE (Read 5896 times)

bruce malm · « **on:** February 20, 2007, 12:53:33 PM »

I was calling Windsor propellers to go pick up some of the 10x7 3 blade propellers so
Gordon and I could try to repitch them. I used one stock this last weekend on a PF with a Brodak 40 and it seemed to pull really well and the lap times were in the 5 sec plus range. i never got the engine adjusted perfectly, just need to richen it and I had to drop the tank.

When calling, I got Fred Jaimison the owner on the line and spoke to him about the expansion of Control line stunt. I also explained that if he would make his 3 blades with a lower pitch, he would probably sell a ton of them for the price he charges.

So I am asking for a consensus on 2 or three sizes, maybe 10x6, 10x5, 10x4, and,or maybe 11x6, 5, or 4 that would most likely be used. I am going over to see him in about an hour and he sounds like he would be willing to have his programmer make a couple sizes to see how it goes.

I will take any suggestions with me when I go to meet him.

Bruce

I met met with Fred and showed him a Stunt News magazine, a few pictures from the web, etc. He was surpised by the amount of CL Stunt going on. He will be talking with his machine programmer and check costs for aluminum sheets, and set-up costs to see what he can start with. Probaly some 10x5, 10x4.
He did say he would keep me in the loop and ask for input if they go ahead with production. Maybe Sparky can put up poll for the variuos sizes that would probably sell the most. My understanding Fred can make double sided dies for about 3 propellers out of 1ea. 2.5" x 14"x aprox 6' piece of aluminum at a cost of $250.00 for the material.

I'm sure if they sell well he would make more sizes.

Bruce

James Lee · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2007, 01:30:04 PM »

Bruce
How about something like 9x4 or 9x5? For those not running the bigger motors....
thanks
Jim

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2007, 01:33:11 PM »

Jim;

I have to agree 9/4's would look good on my P-38. How about it Bruce?

"Billy G"

Harleyman · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2007, 01:43:15 PM »

I'd buy 10x4 and 11x4 three blades.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2007, 01:57:47 PM »

I'd buy the 11 x4 5 and 6

Albert Kraus · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2007, 02:29:35 PM »

I would go for 9-4 & 10-4

Warren Leadbeatter · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2007, 05:19:24 PM »

I'm into the 40s and 46s so 9x4, 9x5, 10x4 and 10x5 would be what I would be after. And yes I would buy.

Cheers

proparc · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2007, 05:32:40 PM »

Bruce,
This is the sort of heads-up proactive steps that gets results. The one thing I feel about Master Airscrew props is that they tend to be too flexible compared to the APC,s. Maybe a little more ridgidity could be programmed into the molds?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2007, 08:43:56 PM »

The old DOC Holliday would be interested in some 9-4 or 5 and 10-4 or 5 three blade.

Mike Palko · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2007, 08:59:00 PM »

What I have experienced with the MasterAirscrew/Windsor propellers is the pitch is usually off by a decent amount. A 7" pitch new out of the package measured closer to 5" or 5.5". A 4" pitch measured closer to 2.5". I have used two and three blades and all seemed the same (also verified in the air by lap time).

This is not an insult to the props (they are VERY good for the money) and are surely usable. I am just wondering how much rework needs to be done? I would like to see a stiffer prop, and maybe a thinner blade (cross section). Some of the hubs can be rather large for some of the spinner we use also.

This would be good news if it falls through.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2007, 07:37:06 AM »

Ya biggest issue is everybody wants something different, us 4 stroke guys need true 6 and 7 pitch in everything from 9 inch to 14 and wide blades. Would be nice if MA made everything we all ask for but don't think it will happen

Bill Little · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2007, 07:57:00 AM »

Since these props can be repitched from everything I have heard, they are sorta like low cost CF props (we usually do repicthing to those!)

So............... two props each (4 pitch, 6 pitch) in the 9", 10", and 11" range should cover our needs!

That would be a start and maybe doable for them.

Jim Morris · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2007, 09:49:56 AM »

I would ask about some 12in 3 blade, you can always cut them down, and 12-3bd is closer to the 60 plus sized motors.

Bill Little · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:37:04 AM »

Quote from: Jim Morris on February 21, 2007, 09:49:56 AM

I would ask about some 12in 3 blade, you can always cut them down, and 12-3bd is closer to the 60 plus sized motors.

Hi Jim,

When you are getting up into "that league" you just gotta spend the money on the Bollys!

Bill <><

bruce malm · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:54:31 AM »

They do make a 12x6 3 blade. I have one I cut down, can't remember to what length, but it gives you a wide blade.
I also picked up a Prather pitch gauge from Gordon Tarbell last night and I have 4 new 10x7 3 blades to play with. I do know the Primary Force with B 40, 10x7 3 blade on 62.5' lines was turning 5.08 seconds on a "lean" run and slowed down as I kept adjusting. Was I get it tuned correctly I will check the times again. I will re-time the the laps. I always time for 5 laps to get an accurate time..

Bruce

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:57:41 AM »

You're right! A 11 inch prop will make a 10 1/2, 10 inch prop more easily than a 10 inch prop will make an 11 inch prop!

It should also be noted that resin/plastic props without full length fibers USUALLY do not hold their "new" pitch. These plastics seem to have a memory and will return to their original molded pitch. Let us know how you make out with your project. And like Bill says (if you're really serious,)...Go for the Bolly, or bust!

Bill Little · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2007, 11:01:45 AM »

Quote from: bruce malm on February 21, 2007, 10:54:31 AM

They do make a 12x6 3 blade. I have one I cut down, can't remember to what length, but it gives you a wide blade.
I also picked up a Rather pitch gauge from Gordon Tarbell last night and I have 4 new 10x7 3 blades to play with. I do know the Primary Force with B 40, 10x7 3 blade on 62.5' lines was turning 5.08 seconds on a "lean" run and slowed down as I kept adjusting. Was I get it tuned correctly I will check the times again. I will re-time the the laps. I always time for 5 laps to get an accurate time..

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Get comfortable witrh that Prather Pitch Gauge and then check those MA 3 bladers.

Like Willis said earlier, they do not show up as "strong" on a Prather gauge. The "7" pitch shows up more as a 5 to 5 1/2. This will go with the times you are experiencing. You should get faster times with a 7 pitch prop.

Bill <><

Jim Morris · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2007, 12:21:07 PM »

Hi Bill, I have tried several props and believe it or not I get real good results from a Top flight PowerPoint. Tommy Luper is running the Zingers,all reworked of course. A $40 prop may or may not fly the plane better.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2007, 12:40:35 PM »

Put me down for some 10 and 11 x4 props.

Bill Little · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2007, 01:12:14 PM »

Quote from: Jim Morris on February 21, 2007, 12:21:07 PM

Hi Bill, I have tried several props and believe it or not I get real good results from a Top flight PowerPoint. Tommy Luper is running the Zingers,all reworked of course. A $40 prop may or may not fly the plane better.

Hi Jim,

You do know what the >

< stands for, right?

I know Tommy very well......... he can fly a brick to a 500 point pattern! Talking with Bob Hunt, I agree...... Tommy can fly with anyone.

But to your point, I use a LOT of wood props. Just never on a PA with a pipe. Especially since there are no commercially available wooden 3 blade props that I know of.

Wood props can work very well, I never said they couldn't! But I also haven't seen one on a Walker Trophy winner in the past decade. Bob Baron is probably the last in '96 with his ST 60. I just can't remember what he had on that one even though I launched it several times in practice.

At the World's there were quite a few wood props in use. Remi uses them (custom made by his Dad), on his Saito 4 strokes.

Putting a prop, regardless of the price will never guarantee that the plane will fly better. it's just a lot easier to repitch a CF prop, accurately, than a wooden one. And I do both.

Billy Werwage used to keep a binder the props he used. He would trace the shape on a piece of paper along with weight, etc., but he couldn't always replicate the same performance using another wood one of the same brand and size. Lots of variance in wood. No two wood props will always run exactly the same.

Got any 10-6 Rev Up XWs? I need them for my McCoy RH and McGas 40's!

Hope to see you, soon!

Bill <><

James Lee · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2007, 02:57:45 PM »

HI Bill
I have a few of the Rev Up 10x6xw props, but they are getting to be like Gold!!! Wish I had a bag of them also!

Jim

Dick Byron · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2007, 03:50:48 PM »

Jim, They are like gold. I have purchased 10/6 reg, 10/6 W, 10/6 EW, 10/5 revup's of ebay. Also 10/8 carrier props. I have about a total of 75 of those props. Yes they are gold. They are not for sale as of this date, but one never knows.

Jim Morris · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2007, 05:05:17 PM »

Hi everyone, I have found another prop line that seems to be super quality,although I have only bought one to try. They are wood. aero Power props, Kaz Minato sells them,around $8-9.a piece.they are very thin and come in all sorts of sizes.I got a 12.5x 5.25.and the pitch seems to be what it says.I will be exploring this option further.

proparc · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2007, 05:25:47 PM »

Bob Reeves is right about the 6 and 7" pitch for 4 strokes. Those are the pitches I use on my big block.

Bill Little · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2007, 07:12:09 AM »

Quote from: James Lee on February 21, 2007, 02:57:45 PM

HI Bill
I have a few of the Rev Up 10x6xw props, but they are getting to be like Gold!!! Wish I had a bag of them also!
Jim

Hi Jim, and Dick!

I wonder why no one has picked up the Rev Up line?

Seems, basically, that everything else has been brought back out.

Top Flite baqddle blades and Rev Up XWs............. I have stuck back a bunch of the TF's but my supply of XWs is getting VERY low!

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2007, 10:30:16 AM »

Quote from: proparc on February 20, 2007, 05:32:40 PM

The one thing I feel about Master Airscrew props is that they tend to be too flexible compared to the APC,s. Maybe a little more ridgidity could be programmed into the molds?

Programming rigidity into the molds would require a thicker blade, if anything a change in the molding resin would be needed to add rigidity to the prop perhaps the addition of long strand fiberglass would help, but then you have to deal with the change in surface finish, injection time and maybe how the mold is vented to get a complete fill. These are injection molds you are talking about. Its not easy to just up and change a product or mold without the use of some really sophisticated software, making mold changes by trail and error is difficult at best and time consuming plus you have to tie up a production machine to do so. Please do not take this the wrong way I am only trying to advise as to the problems a molder faces when changing a product or adding a new one.

Scott

Dick Byron · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2007, 10:59:02 AM »

The best I know about the REV UP line I got from Finlays Hobby shop in Wichita several weeks ago. When the wife of the owner died, (she made the props) the owner did not realize he needed to pay the employees and they left. He just let everything go. Some of the equipment was sold but the most important stuff just disappeared.
It amazes me why all the other prop mfg. think their stuff is so great, and fail to recognize that the REV UP prop was and still is the best prop available for us. That is my opinion as far as 10" props go. Obviously the CF props work far better on many ships.

Terry Bolin · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2007, 11:53:25 AM »

I would like to use 9X4
Terry B

Harleyman · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2007, 02:09:56 PM »

Hey guys, any update on this?

I could really use some cost effective 10-4s, and 10-5 three blades.

James Lee · « **Reply #29 on:** March 27, 2007, 03:08:04 PM »

Just a note on Rev-Up. I went to the court ordered auction of the Rev-Up stuff in early 2003... The production stuff was sold the weekend prior to the machine shop stuff.. I did hear a rumor from some of the local people that some of the production stuff seemed to have disappeared... But the bottom line is that Rev-Up is no more... It would be nice if it could reappear!! I did pick up a box of what appears to be test runs of props from the 1970's. One side is sanded out and the other is rough cut. Some pencil notes as to what prop it is supposed to be... Interesting, but....?
Later
Jim

bruce malm · « **Reply #30 on:** March 27, 2007, 06:02:34 PM »

I'll try to call tomorrow and see if anything is going on. I have been using the 10x7 3 blade and actual pitch does come up 5.5. Lap times in the mid 5 second range. Primary force, Brodak 40. I have one on a Vector with a B40 but have not timed it. I also put one on a Smoothie that has a DS 40 classic on it but have not flown it with the 3 blade yet.
I think I need a little larger venturi for the DS40. It has a .285. Just need to get someone to make a .300 for me. I flew the DS a couple of times last weekend and it really runs nice.

Bruce

bruce malm · « **Reply #31 on:** March 28, 2007, 10:19:17 AM »

I just spoke with Windsor,
They are going to working on a 10x5 3 blade right now to see how it sells. They said it would be available in 6 to 8 weeks. i plan on going by there to pick up some more 10x7 s and will make sure they have my # so I can let everybody know. if these sell well they will star making more in different pitches and diameters. price should be $7.95 list price.

Bruce

I was thinking I could order 30 or 40 of these and sell them at my cost + shipping. I might be able to get a little discount but would have to pay tax as I do not have a resale license. I would not make any money. just want to show Fred how interested we are and get some out there, or if one of the dealers is interested, maybe I can hook them up. Hopefully this would get them to make more variations sooner and they would respect our input a lot more.

What does everybody think???

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #32 on:** March 28, 2007, 12:45:40 PM »

Bruce;

This is too easy, let me know when and how much and I will take six to start. OK

"Billy G"

bruce malm · « **Reply #33 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:03:24 PM »

I'll wait a little while before I place the order to make sure I don't step on any toes. I will put you on my list.

Any vendors that would be interested, please call me on my cell (916) 257-7216 or send me an e-mail.

thank you for the support.

Bruce

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #34 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:19:04 PM »

count me interested when this comes to fruition!

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #35 on:** March 28, 2007, 09:07:58 PM »

Today I tried out the new Zinger Pro wooden on my LA 46 and it really did good. I like the prop. It is stiff and light but hard to get. I used the 11X5 and it put my plane through the paces with authority. Another thing it was balenced when I finished buffing it out. Ithought I corected this before. Oh well, I think everyone knows my typing sucks.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #36 on:** March 29, 2007, 12:04:13 PM »

I want to try one just for kicks.
Put me down for 2.

PS- If they will fit on a LA .40

Paul

bruce malm · « **Reply #37 on:** March 29, 2007, 01:06:02 PM »

I'll put you on the list. I am currently using some of the 10x7 on Brodak 40's and they work pretty well. I understand that the LA40 are run at a higher rpm so the 10x5 should work pretty well. I think i will be able to get them for about $6.50 +CA tax, as I don't have a resale card. everything will be sold at my exact cost, including shipping.

I know there is some question on the pitching of these props, so I'm going to try to get with Fred and Teresa later today to answer any questions.

I also no some people would like 9x5's. I believe that since these props are not real wide blade, that you could easily cut them down to 8.5> 9" without any problem.
As I said at first, if these sell well enough, I think I can get them to make more sizes and pitches.

Bruce

bob branch · « **Reply #38 on:** March 31, 2007, 09:04:31 AM »

Bruce

I'd be interested in 3 of the 10X5 3 blades. Please let me know how and when.

Bob Branch

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #39 on:** March 31, 2007, 09:47:40 AM »

I would like to wait and see what the actual pitch is. If the 7 pitch are actually 5 or 5 1/2 then would the 5 end up being 3 or 3 1/2? If they are correct then I would like to try some.