Author Topic: Why MAAC or AMA number on planes? (Read 6718 times)

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **on:** February 17, 2013, 12:07:36 AM »

As a sport pilot I don't have to worry about such things, but it has always made me wonder what possible reason there is for contest pilots to have their MAAC or AMA number on their planes? Isn't it pretty obviouse who's plane it is, if they're flying it? Just always wondered how the rule came to be. Also, why does it have to be so big and plastered over the right wing?

Hoss Cain · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:42:05 AM »

Way back before "dirt"

FF models could be lost off the facility. AMA, born in 1936, IIRC, used that to both identify the airplane and flier and if a model was found it could be traced. No "confusers" back then. The item droned on and it was very good since that number helped define that any contestant was an AMA member, of course, IMO, not definitely, but at least a hint. Now AMA only requires either name and address or AMA # in or on the airplane.
PAMPA requires the old definition for whatever reasons they have. OTOH having an AMA number does keep some airplanes from being flown by a wrong person. In RC, very few do so, but other than scalemodels, I want my AMA number on the model as there have been numerous thefts of models, especially while in Hotel/Motel parking lots plus some on flying facilities. An AMA number on the wing can provide recovery information if a potential buyer from the thief so wishes.
A number of years ago there was modeler that had an extremely well artistic talent. She could paint a model so an AMA # was there but almost imperceptible to the eye. IIRC that one item created the rule for the # requirement to be specific.
At one time a Scale Competitor could use his/her AMA number as a replacement number for Scale models without penalty. Then there came the perfectionists (DP the leader) and that item was removed. IMO, Rather less than smart but that is the way it is!
If you don't fly competition, then simply ignore the PAMPA rule. It is YOUR model!

Paul Smith · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2013, 07:49:56 AM »

The licence number was required to enforce the Builder of the Model rule. An "AMA number permanently affixed" did a good job of identifying the current owner of a model, if not the actual builder. It did put a limit on sharing and borrowing of models during a contest.

As originally intended the hobby/sport of modeling was building, then flying a model airplane.

I guess in the modern era of buy-and-fly, putting a number on a model is too much of a technical challenge to expect.

Trostle · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2013, 08:23:58 AM »

Quote from: Hoss Cain on February 17, 2013, 06:42:05 AM

PAMPA requires the old definition for whatever reasons they have. OTOH having an AMA number does keep some airplanes from being flown by a wrong person.

If you don't fly competition, then simply ignore the PAMPA rule. It is YOUR model!

Hey Hoss,

PAMPA has nothing to do with the required AMA number identification on a stunt ship. In fact, PAMPA cannot impose any PAMPA specific rule on any official AMA event.

The AMA rule for CLPA is clear:

" 2.3. All models shall be identified by the contestant’s AMA license number permanently affixed to the upper side of the right-hand lifting surface or to each side of the fuselage or vertical stabilizer. The height of numerals shall be at least one (1) inch (25.4 mm). Both stroke and width shall be such to enable ready recognition. It is suggested that the letters USA (25mm [1 inch] or higher) be placed at least once on the model."

And to Mr. Reach, I understand that you are a Canadian, so you are probably not intimately familiar with the AMA rules, though the AMA rulebook is available to anyone who bothers to look it up. Per the rule quoted above, our AMA number does not necessarily have to be "plastered over the right wing". Just thought you should know.

Keith

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2013, 08:28:10 AM »

Even for a sport flier, there can be a legal issue of ownership of the airplane. I think this is what is behind the AMA rule in the general section. An insurance thing, I suppose.

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2013, 10:02:01 AM »

Well "Mr Trostle", I wasn't trying to be a d**k or anything, I was simply curiouse why we (both Canadians and Americans as I had mentioned both MAAC and AMA) had to place the number so promanently on their ships. It seems like a rule that has passed its usefullness as indicated by the different thoughts behind its use. Sorry if being curiouse is somehow a bad thing.

Thank you all for te responces. I am a sport flier and never enter contests, so never have to worry about the number. Just something I have always wondered about.

Joe Just · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2013, 10:06:42 AM »

I always get a laugh or two whenever this subject comes up. Pick up your copy of MA the February issue for example. Just flipping through a few pages, number 20, 27, 41, 52 you will find models in our official AMA magazine without any AM A license numbers. Turn to pages 66 and 67 and see photos of readers models. Nice looking planes, but only 3 are you unable to verify AMA numbers. The other 5 have no #'s shown. Next time you attend a R/C fun fly check out the almost total lack of AMA #'s. Seems like most non CL airplanes just don't follow the rule as posted above. In a "sue you" society like ours, an example of non compliance to one rule may possible show lack of following other AMA rules, like the safety rules.
Never fly a plane without following the # placement rule! Why the editors of MA don't crack down on this is beyond me!
Joe

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:11:28 AM »

Looking at the AMA rules, which is not as easy as when they were supplied in a booklet, I found the rules for model identification in the competition rules, so maybe it only exists there. The rule is, except for indoor models, that name and address, or AMA number, need to be somewhere. So an airplane with no visible AMA number could have a return address sticker in the cockpit and be in sync with the general competition rules. Incidentally there is also mention of the "sporting license".

Bob Whitely · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:44:48 AM »

Since most of you are just sport fliers it makes no difference if you put
your AMA number on your plane. Those of us that fly competitevely put
our numbers on the plane as the rules state otherwise we cannot enter said
contest. As Keith stated the AMA is the only governing body in the U.S. as to
the numbers rule. Don't compete, don't worry about it. This is a very simple
concept, no need to overthink it. Enough said. RJ

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:56:39 AM »

I've always put my AMA number on my models as a matter of pride, contest model or not. Having the number "plastered all over the wing" and working it into the paint and finish of the airplane is one way of decorating the model so it stands out at appearance judging. It's just one of those things that has always been done that way for the reasons already presented. i think a stunt model without the builder's AMA number on the wing just makes an airplane look sort of out of balance. I just couldn't think of building any kind of competition model without them, and even any kind of sport model with a large wings that I build has them. it just looks right. Scale models are another matter, though.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2013, 12:02:02 PM »

I'm really sorry for useing the term "plastered over the right wing". It was ill thought out and seems to have ruffled a few feathers. I did not mean this in any mean spirited way. I just meant that the number was always in a large format on the right wing. I have always thought it detracted from the paint scheme of many beautiful ships.

Just my opinion of course.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2013, 12:13:28 PM »

SOME PEOPLE, are simply constantly on the lookout for things to complain about.
Even if they are not at all involved in what they are complaining about...just their nature I guess!!

Randy C.

Trostle · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2013, 05:01:54 PM »

It seems that this question of identification on our models comes up on these forums on a regular basis. If people would read what is in the rulebook, most of the questions would not ever need to be asked.

In my post above, I only made reference to the CLPA section of the rulebook that gave the identification requirement for only the CLPA events.

In the General rules section of the AMA rulebook, the identification requirement reads:

"4. Identification: All models, except Indoor, will be identified with the owner's name and address or AMA number, on or in the model. Individual events listed within this (Competition Regulations) may have additional identification requirements which must be adhered to."

The AMA safety code does state the owner is to "ensure the aircraft is identified with the name and address or AMA number of the owner on the inside or affixed to the outside of the model aircraft." (Indoor models are excluded.) The AMA safety code does does not specify if that code applies to only models flown in official contest events. I am not aware of any AMA document that states this information is required for insurance purposes. I would recommend that if anyone has a problem that the Model Aviation magazine (an official publication of the AMA) publishes photographs of models built by AMA members that do not show any identification infomation, they should seriously consider approaching the AMA with that problem.

I have not researched the entire rulebook for event specific requirements regarding this matter. The CLPA requirement is quoted in my previous post above. Once upon a time, there were "Unified Scale Judging Regulations" that applied to all the scale events, including CL, FF and RC. In those unified rules was the requirement for identification which read "Contestant's name and AMA license number should be permanently displayed on the model in an inconspicuous location. No point credit shall be lost because of such identification." Note this rule said that the information "should" be displayed and that no size requirements were provided. During that era, some very imaginative locations and displays were chosen by scale modelers if and when they provided that information on their models. Also, I know of one scale airplane from that period that won the Precision CL Scale event at one Nats that did not have that information anywhere on it. Since that time and under the forward thinking of the Scale Contest Board, those unified scale rules were eliminated from the AMA rulebook and only a poorly coordinated set of CL Scale rules remain. As a result, there is no longer any CL Scale specific rule regarding model identification, which means that the AMA General rule applies. Therefore, CL Scale models flown in competition "will" have to comply with that AMA General rule. (No size or location requirements are specified there.) Maybe those who have competed at a recent Nats can advise if the identification requirements are being applied by the Event Directors.

Mr Reach: Thank you for toning down your pithy statement regarding the need to have the pilot's AMA number "plastered over the right wing". I hope you also understand by now that the number is not even required to be on the wing. I do not know anything about the MAAC requirements on this matter and will not comment. I am curious about your wording in a previous post where you used the word "curiouse". Maybe I should look in your non-contest pilot Canadian dictionary and maybe find that word in there around where the word "responces" is. (A friendly hint, the Spell Check function on this forum works really well.)

Keith

Brett Buck · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2013, 05:32:25 PM »

Quote from: Hoss Cain on February 17, 2013, 06:42:05 AM

PAMPA requires the old definition for whatever reasons they have.

PAMPA doesn't "require" anything. The requirement for the AMA number on the airplane predates PAMPA by many decades.

Brett

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2013, 05:41:38 PM »

It would appear that some people are simply @$$es and some people just think they are superior....which are you, an @$$ or think your superior?

I just asked a simple question about something I was curious about. I guess that's too much to ask from some people here on the forum.

Bob Hudak · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2013, 05:47:49 PM »

50 years from now somebody might say " Who built that plane?" AMA numbers will give the ability to find the answer. I saw a club members airplane on a website and said hey that looks like so and so's plane. The AMA numbers proved me right !
Bob

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2013, 05:58:13 PM »

I am not saying its a good idea or a bad idea. I was simply wondering why it had to be there. I know its a rule, I wanted to know why the rule was drawn up in the first place. Thats all.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:33:10 PM »

Quote from: Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach on February 17, 2013, 05:58:13 PM

I am not saying its a good idea or a bad idea. I was simply wondering why it had to be there. I know its a rule, I wanted to know why the rule was drawn up in the first place. Thats all.

Identify model builders.

Brett

Trostle · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:48:59 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on February 17, 2013, 06:33:10 PM

Identify model builders.

Brett

Maybe another response would be to identify model builders and/or model buyers/owners.

Keith

Avaiojet · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:51:23 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on February 17, 2013, 06:48:59 PM

Maybe another response would be to identify model builders and/or model buyers/owners.Keith

Keith,

You nailed it!

And in few words.

Charles

Brett Buck · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:51:32 PM »

Quote from: Joe Just on February 17, 2013, 10:06:42 AM

I always get a laugh or two whenever this subject comes up. Pick up your copy of MA the February issue for example. Just flipping through a few pages, number 20, 27, 41, 52 you will find models in our official AMA magazine without any AM A license numbers. Turn to pages 66 and 67 and see photos of readers models. Nice looking planes, but only 3 are you unable to verify AMA numbers. The other 5 have no #'s shown. Next time you attend a R/C fun fly check out the almost total lack of AMA #'s. Seems like most non CL airplanes just don't follow the rule as posted above. In a "sue you" society like ours, an example of non compliance to one rule may possible show lack of following other AMA rules, like the safety rules.
Never fly a plane without following the # placement rule! Why the editors of MA don't crack down on this is beyond me!

   The requirement for sport flying is merely that the number is in or on the airplane somewhere, and it comes only from the safety code (as quoted by Keith). A scrap of paper with it pencil-scribbled on it and shoved in to the tank compartment is sufficient, as far as I can tall. There is no placement rule outside of competition events, and I only know those for stunt. So there is nothing to "crack down on", you just can't tell if there is no number in or on it somewhere.

   You are likely right in that if you *don't* comply fully with the safety code, you risk your claim being rejected.

   Brett

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2013, 09:20:27 PM »

" You are likely right in that if you *don't* comply fully with the safety code, you risk your claim being rejected."
One thing I have found out about insurance companies, they are in business to make money, and they have people on the payroll to find a way to NOT pay your claim. Better to have all your T's crossed and I's dotted and AMA number where it ought to be.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2013, 09:38:46 PM »

Quote from: Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach on February 17, 2013, 05:41:38 PM

It would appear that some people are simply @$$es and some people just think they are superior....which are you, an @$$ or think your superior?

I just asked a simple question about something I was curious about. I guess that's too much to ask from some people here on the forum.

Well, Glenn, there you go calling people names again. Seems like you are the only one that ever does that.I'll just go ahead and say that it was a stupid question. Some people just ask questions instead of thinking for themselves or even seeing what's obvious. It's like asking why do race cars have numbers on them, or hockey players have numbers on them, or why do down hill ski racers have numbers on them. Why do full scale airplanes have numbers on them?

Fer Crying out load!
Dan mcEntee

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2013, 10:00:04 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on February 17, 2013, 09:20:27 PM

" You are likely right in that if you *don't* comply fully with the safety code, you risk your claim being rejected."
One thing I have found out about insurance companies, they are in business to make money, and they have people on the payroll to find a way to NOT pay your claim. Better to have all your T's crossed and I's dotted and AMA number where it ought to be.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Nobody has mentioned (that I've noticed) that the AMA or MAAC number can be on both sides of the fuselage or on both sides of the vertical tail. Or that AMA Insurance is secondary insurance, which only steps in after your homeowner's or renter's insurance has stepped forward. You can be sure that your homeowner's/renter's insurance doesn't specify that your toy plane have your AMA/MAAC number anywhere on it.

Steve

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2013, 10:09:00 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on February 17, 2013, 09:38:46 PM

hockey players have numbers on them,
Dan mcEntee

DUH!! How else will you identify them after the fight,,,,,

Trostle · « **Reply #25 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:15:53 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on February 17, 2013, 10:00:04 PM

Nobody has mentioned (that I've noticed) that the AMA or MAAC number can be on both sides of the fuselage or on both sides of the vertical tail.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I think there was a quote up in post #3 in this thread from the AMA CLPA rulebook:

"2.3. All models shall be identified by the contestant's AMA license number permanently affixed to the upper side of the right-hand lifting surface or to each side of the fuselage or vertical stabilizer. ......"

So actually, it has been "mentioned" on this terribly important thread to explain that at least the AMA rules state that the number "can be on both sides of the fuselage or on both sides of the vertical tail" rather than "plastered over the right wing".

I only thought it appropriate to repeat that quote here so that the articulate foreign national who does not fly competition and appears on this forum as the self appointed forum censor but is one of the few name callers currently posting on this forum and is one of several who defends and praises poorly thought out and executed construction techniques might better understand the AMA competition rules.

Keith

RandySmith · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:37:39 PM »

The numbers do NOT have to be huge and plastered all over the wing, They only have to be 1 inch high, and do not have to even be solid letters.

They are really part of what an airplane should look like too, most aircraft do have markings on them, so it really is no big deal, most every type competition you see, has an identifying marking system.

Randy

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #27 on:** February 18, 2013, 01:11:11 AM »

Trostle, your like a fifth grader....grow up. "I only thought it appropriate to repeat that quote here so that the articulate foreign national who does not fly competition and appears on this forum as the self appointed forum censor but is one of the few name callers currently posting on this forum and is one of several who defends and praises poorly thought out and executed construction techniques might better understand the AMA competition rules." How many times should I mention that I don't care about the rule, I simply wanted to know why the rule was made. Perhaps the foreign national (to me) that pretends to be so learned, would actually read what he is commenting on.

Randy....I already apologised for the "plastered all over the wing" comment. How often do I need to apologise?

This is my last post on this topic as it seems to be angering people for some reason that I simply can not fathem....other than they are mad at me for defending someone they were bullying. The answer I get out of all the different answers is....no one seems to really know why the rule was made in the first place, but everyone likes to guess, I guess.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #28 on:** February 18, 2013, 06:01:10 AM »

I would probably do it even if it wasn't a rule, mater of aesthetic balance.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #29 on:** February 18, 2013, 06:47:35 AM »

Quote from: Jim Thomerson on February 17, 2013, 08:28:10 AM

Even for a sport flier, there can be a legal issue of ownership of the airplane. I think this is what is behind the AMA rule in the general section. An insurance thing, I suppose.

Some RC sport flyers subscribe to the "sanitized model" theory. No identification at all, including fingerprints so as to maintain deniability in case of a liability incident.

Bill Morell · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2013, 07:13:14 AM »

Quote from: Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach on February 18, 2013, 01:11:11 AM

Trostle, your like a fifth grader....grow up. "I only thought it appropriate to repeat that quote here so that the articulate foreign national who does not fly competition and appears on this forum as the self appointed forum censor but is one of the few name callers currently posting on this forum and is one of several who defends and praises poorly thought out and executed construction techniques might better understand the AMA competition rules." How many times should I mention that I don't care about the rule, I simply wanted to know why the rule was made. Perhaps the foreign national (to me) that pretends to be so learned, would actually read what he is commenting on.

Randy....I already apologised for the "plastered all over the wing" comment. How often do I need to apologise?

This is my last post on this topic as it seems to be angering people for some reason that I simply can not fathem....other than they are mad at me for defending someone they were bullying. The answer I get out of all the different answers is....no one seems to really know why the rule was made in the first place, but everyone likes to guess, I guess.

Glenn, your constant name calling doesn't indicate a high level of maturity either.

YakNine · « **Reply #31 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:04:22 AM »

When I was a kid in our 4 H model airplane club we were required to be AMA members for the insurance and I believe that was determined by the county park commission who owned the field some of us had numbers on our wings I thought it looked cool and very grown up at the time, and still put my number on my planes but we had to have a valid card to fly and our club was chartered. The club is still in existence but is now pretty much an R/C club of arf's and heli's , I guess paper routes and mowing lawns pay a lot better now ! I no longer see the club listed so I am guessing they are no longer chartered. T.J.

RandySmith · « **Reply #32 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:52:07 AM »

"Randy....I already apologised for the "plastered all over the wing" comment. How often do I need to apologise?"

Glenn

No where in my comment did I ask you, or suggest you apologize, or even mention your name, my comment was strictly for information, that the AMA numbers did not have to be large, or even a solid type of lettering, they can be thin, or open type .

Randy

Brett Buck · « **Reply #33 on:** February 18, 2013, 11:09:23 AM »

Quote from: Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach on February 18, 2013, 01:11:11 AM

Trostle, your like a fifth grader....grow up. "I only thought it appropriate to repeat that quote here so that the articulate foreign national who does not fly competition and appears on this forum as the self appointed forum censor but is one of the few name callers currently posting on this forum and is one of several who defends and praises poorly thought out and executed construction techniques might better understand the AMA competition rules." How many times should I mention that I don't care about the rule, I simply wanted to know why the rule was made. Perhaps the foreign national (to me) that pretends to be so learned, would actually read what he is commenting on.

For goodness sake, you are the one who is escalating all these items from molehills to mountains! You take slightly irritated comments and blow the responses up into a blood feud. The name-calling is just beyond the pale. If you want to have a war with Keith Trostle I would suggest it be taken off-line. You will lose, but at least the rest of us don't have to deal with it. Take your own advice - if you see something you don't like, just don't respond to it. But you never let even one comment go, it's respond and escalate.

For example:

Quote

Randy....I already apologised for the "plastered all over the wing" comment. How often do I need to apologise?

Innocuous comment -> put upon victim.

Quote

This is my last post on this topic as it seems to be angering people for some reason that I simply can not fathem....other than they are mad at me for defending someone they were bullying.

More name calling. How many patient answers does Keith have to provide for our problem child before you find him acceptable? He has exhibited the patience of a saint, with both Charles and with you. You just get mad when he responds at all.

Quote

The answer I get out of all the different answers is....no one seems to really know why the rule was made in the first place, but everyone likes to guess, I guess.

The answer was given repeatedly above, it was to identify the builder of the model so it would be more difficult to swap airplanes or build it and then have someone else compete with it. That is the reason it is still in the competition rules. That should be clear enough.

Brett

p.s. addressing the part of the question that is "in the first place"- Originally an AMA license # was actually an CAA/FAA license. You don't have a Federal license= it's illegal to fly in he US. This all to address the "problem" posed by FF Gas models in the 30's (and maybe the late 20's, I would have to go check), which were perceived as dangerous. Eventually that faded away, and most people didn't bother anyway. Later, it was maintained in the event rules to identify the BOM. As Keith notes, its very useful for Appearance Judging purposes, otherwise you would have to track everybody down and ask which airplane was theirs.

Trostle · « **Reply #34 on:** February 18, 2013, 11:29:36 AM »

And there is another practical reason for AMA numbers to be placed somewhere on our CLPA models. Often, particularly at large contests, the appearance judging is accomplished prior to the official flights. This could be by the flight judges or by some other person or persons other than the flight judges. The appearance points are recorded by the appearance judge(s) together with the AMA number on the airplane. The pilot's name is not involved with that recording activity. Then, in the tabulation process, the appearance points are added to the individual flight score sheets. It really works well.

Those numbers also help the flight judges to identify the individual about to make an official flight when the judges are not familiar with the names of the pilots or their airplanes. This helps maintain the correct flight order and to make sure the correct score sheets are used for each pilot.

I know it gets kind of complicated but all of this should not be too difficult for even the least experienced sport flier to comprehend.

Keith

Vince Mankowski · « **Reply #35 on:** February 18, 2013, 03:45:03 PM »

Actually..... a lot of the "AMA number on the wing" was the result of early AMA growing pains.
AMA began in 1936 and not all modelers, let alone competitors, were AMA members. There were other contests to go to and the majority of clubs were not "AMA Clubs"..... Putting 'AMA' and your AMA licence number on the wing of the model served as an early "pr program." There were more members of Bambergers Model Airplane Club in Newark NJ, then there were AMA members, up through the war years.
Getting word out about the AMA was quite a task. Getting modelers "in the fold" was not easy. Meanwhile of those who 'joined up' some were upset by having to put numbers on a model they spent a lot of time finishing and making look good! Look at early magazine covers to see when wing-mounted AMA license numbers start to be accepted & showing up. It is comparatively recent and the momentum behind revolves around litigation/insurance, more then builder-of-the-model/finding-lost-models.
Finding the errant model and tagging a model to a contestant are probably a good things, but they are more like beneficial unintended consequences. The basic issue was AMA growth. Looking at 'park flyers' and ready-to-fly, it probably still is.

Joe Just · « **Reply #36 on:** February 18, 2013, 07:14:33 PM »

Quote from: Vince Mankowski link=topic=30320.. It is comparatively recent and the momentum behind revolves around litigation/insurance, more then builder-of-the-model/finding-lost-models.
[/quote

BINGO! Thanks Vince.
Joe

john e. holliday · « **Reply #37 on:** February 19, 2013, 11:21:14 AM »

Boy some people are thinned skinned. I remember when I built my stand off scale plane for RC. I went to the KCMo airport as I heard the real plane was there. So with camera and permission from owner and the manager of the hanger I went and tarted taking pictures. The wings and tail surfaces were a solid white. The fuselage was white with a stripe along the length of it. Identifying numbers were on each side of the rudder. There not even any markings telling us it as a Cessna Comanche, except for a little metal plate in the cockpit. So my plane was done just lke the real plane. But inside the fuselage was a sticker with my name, address, phone number and AMA number. It was permanently affixed to the interior of the fuselage side.

Now for the thin skinned person that wants to sport fly and not do competitions. Don't go to a contest and then wonder why you are excorted from the flying area if you don't have an AMA/MAAC license. Even our NATS require a license for people that are not competing but helping to get a license number, or used to, if you want to be in the flying area.

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #38 on:** February 19, 2013, 12:03:18 PM »

John....are you refering to me as the "thin skinned" individual?? Because I have NEVER been escorted from a flying field, NEVER did I say that I was not a member of MAAC. I wonder where you got this information from? I simply wanted to know WHY THE RULE WAS WRITTEN TO BEGIN WITH!! Vince Mankowski has (I believe) come up with the most plausible answer. It makes sense. Thank you Vince.

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #39 on:** February 19, 2013, 12:37:23 PM »

Perhaps a take home lesson is that when asking an innocent question about why some group follows a long established practice, one needs to word the question very carefully so as not to be seen as being critical.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #40 on:** February 19, 2013, 01:21:09 PM »

A small point, but the letters "AMA" do not have to appear. Your legal AMA number is required for contest purposes.

Many, including myself, use "USA", "NX", or "NC" preceding the AMA number.

Floyd

Trostle · « **Reply #41 on:** February 19, 2013, 03:49:21 PM »

Quote from: Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach on February 19, 2013, 12:03:18 PM

John....are you refering [sic] to me as the "thin skinned" individual?? Because I have NEVER been escorted from a flying field, NEVER did I say that I was not a member of MAAC. I wonder where you got this information from? I simply wanted to know WHY THE RULE WAS WRITTEN TO BEGIN WITH!! Vince Mankowski has (I believe) come up with the most plausible answer. It makes sense. Thank you Vince.

And here I thought we were blessed by your earlier post:

"This is my last post on this topic as it seems to be angering people for some reason that I simply can not fathem...."

(Whatever fathem means -- maybe another of those peculiar Canadian words you seem to often entertain us with. It has been suggested to you before that the Spell Check function on this forum works really well.)

And it might do some good for you to heed the advice by Jim Thomerson above and probably all of this nonsense surrounding your original post would have been avoided. Yes, you did apologize for that and you even modified your the statement, but the seed was planted and it shows an attitude maybe not understood on your side of the computer screen.

Keith

Trostle · « **Reply #42 on:** February 19, 2013, 04:39:46 PM »

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on February 19, 2013, 01:21:09 PM

A small point, but the letters "AMA" do not have to appear. Your legal AMA number is required for contest purposes.

Many, including myself, use "USA", "NX", or "NC" preceding the AMA number.

Floyd

And for FAI F2B competition, the model shall carry a model identification code (letters and/or numbers) on the model and each part of the detachable components (wing, tail, front and rear fuselage). That code consists of the individual's "National Identification Number" and the nationality abbreviation of the International Olympic Committee. For competitors from the United States, that means the information somewhere on the model must be "USA" and the AMA number. The letters/numbers must be at least 25MM in height and appear at least once on the model.

Keith