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Author Topic: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC  (Read 11995 times)

Offline Dick Pacini

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Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« on: April 16, 2010, 01:15:56 PM »


Even the best Tom Morris controls are hundreds less than a radio system.

Control Line never runs out of battery power. (Except for Hunt's stuff LOL!)  LL~

Control Line requires more skill because no maneuver is farther away from the ground than about 70 feet.

If your engine quits in Control Line, you never have to walk farther than the aforementioned 70 feet to retrieve your plane.

Control Line is simple.  Only two control directions are required, up or down.

Control Line airplanes never fly out of range of the controls.


OK, feel free to add on...  H^^
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 01:20:40 PM »
You're flying a plane rather than playing a video game.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 02:07:55 PM »
And you can say you apply "string theory".

Or that model airplanes are more fun when you're wired.
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 02:37:09 PM »
I don't know whether this makes it "better", but I like the feel of the plane on the lines. That's pretty personal, and makes the plane more of an extension of my own limbs. Things will get a bit closer, when the RC guys are controling their planes via watching from aircraft mounted video cameras that can be aimed like virtual reality. The in-plane videoed CL and RC has already been fun to view.

SK

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 03:12:52 PM »
You feel the plane at the end of the lines, you know what it is doing, and what it is going to do.  With RC, you have to see what the plane is doing.

And we build our planes, except for a few in RC...

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Offline David Hoover

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 03:41:29 PM »
I think Serge has it correct - not necessarily "better" but it's what he prefers because he can feel the plane on the lines.  Control line and RC are just two facets of the entire spectrum of model aviation.  Each facet has it's aficionados and I don't see any one of them better or worse than any other, just different.  Control line suits me for reasons I don't really comprehend, but that doesn't make it any better or worse (well, maybe) than any of the other model aviation disciplines.

I think that the late, great Jimmy Clark said it best many years ago.  When asked why he would bother to come to the US and race in NASCAR after winning the F1 championship he simply replied, "Racing is all one world.".  The same is true for model aviation.

Best, David
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Offline pat king

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 04:06:01 PM »
With C/L you get the "feel" when you try to beat the ground into submission. LL~ Does anyone know how many times you have to smack an airplane into the ground to beat the ground into submission? I don't know that C/L is better, but I sure like the feel of the airplane on the end of the lines and the challenge of only having a hemisphere of approximately 70' radius to fly the airplane. With a C/L stunt airplane there is very little time for indecision. With a 90 MPH C/L airplane there is absolutely no time for indecision, on 60' lines the airplane is doing a lap in less than 1.5 seconds.

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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2010, 04:39:04 PM »
With C/L you get the "feel" when you try to beat the ground into submission. LL~

That is one of the funniest things I've heard all day  LL~
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Offline Peter Ferguson

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2010, 05:31:11 PM »
This is kind of like argueing over blondes vs brunettes. Theres a lot more to it than the obvious. I like both.
Peter Ferguson
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Offline Peter Ferguson

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2010, 06:19:19 PM »
I'll play devils advocate:
Its difficult to slope soar with CL
Its difficult to fly a CL helicopter (too many lines etc)
CL Thermal soaring is rather limited.
CL Pylon racing seems dangerous.
CL Giant Scale requires a lot of strength or some type of harness (George Gaydos GSCB once showed me his harness intended for flying a large CL Bomber).
CL seaplanes require hip waders or the ability to walk on water (I guess that not really a problem right)
CL is hard on the knees and pants.
Not enough gadgets in CL and lord knows pilots like gadgets.
In CL putting a bigger engine on a heavy airplane always doesn't make it better.
CL flyers occasionally smell like dope/thinner.
I never had a stooge line wrapped around my ankles, and getting tighter and tighter, flying R/C.
Candy drops for the kids in CL are kind of dangerous, I guess its ok with gum drops no hard tack though.

Peter Ferguson
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Offline Jerry Leuty

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2010, 07:47:29 PM »


        Like a lot of guys I started way back with a .049 Wen Mac plastic airplane. Soon came Baby Bees and Scientific models. Then came the first Ring Master with a Fox .29 and 60' steel lines. I was hooked after that. The pull on the handle, the feel of the plane going thru loops and wing overs. It was what dreams were made of. I tried R/C back in 1978 because all my flying buddies were cashing in their C/L stuff for R/C. I did the same. After about a year of that I quit modeling for the next 20 years. Then I came across a flying buddy from way back when. He told me of some C/L flying going on on the east side of Fort Worth, Texas. The sight of that plane going around in circles, the smell of Castor mixed with nitro, and the sound of that Fox...........I was smitten all over again. Now 11 years later, retired, a little money to play with, I am enjoying my last days on planet earth. My charge to you all reading this is to get out there and go flying, build something, and enter a contest even if it is way off and you are not that great of a pilot. Who cares? Go have some fun.

Jerry

Offline Bill Hodges

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2010, 08:14:43 PM »
I am flying RC tomorrow morning and CL Sunday morning.  Thank goodness I am able to enjoy both aspects of model aviation and I enjoy both equally.

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Offline Robert Organ

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 09:00:39 PM »
I flew CL in the fifties and sixties , started flying RC in the late sixties and am back in cl now. I will continue flying rc and now cl, just enjoy both. I never was the greatest cl or rc pilot but it has sure been a REALLY BIG part of my life and I hope to enjoy both of these facets of model aviation as long as I can. I tried free flight early on but my mom got tired of chasing airplanes for me with the family car so I gave that up for cl! BOB
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Offline John Stiles

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 09:03:02 PM »
You don't hafta go to the local Hobby Shop.......they don't stock anything you need LL~ LL~ LL~
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Offline Greg McCoy

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2010, 10:21:20 PM »
I have muscle memory for C/L.
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 11:22:26 PM »
    I have no particular problem with R/C nor do I think C/L is necessarily superior. But what puts me off so much about R/C is the fact that *so many* of the guys you see at the typical field are *just so insufferable* to talk to. A lot of the guys are complete and utter duffers, but presume that they are somehow magnificently skilled modelers because they managed to get their latest ARF trainer up and down successfully. And the *endless* discussion about how much their airplanes cost, where they bought it, etc. Or show you their latest kit and it looks like stuff I was embarrassed about when I was 10. I don't look down on them for not doing a good job, or being proud of their accomplishments - but they are typically so ignorant that they have NO IDEA how crappy it is, but to their level best to "top" anything you might say.  And then they start asking what I have, and oh, why don't you "move up" to R/C....  I am polite but I don't want to test my patience so I avoid it like the plague.

    I do know a lot of good guys in R/C and the guys I know who are serious about it and some are the equal of any modelers you and I have met. I have flown a fair bit of R/C over the years (more than most of the club duffers, although not recently and not at a high level), I'm not particularly good at it, but it was all essentially *on my own* because I don't want to deal with the weenies.

    Brett

   

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2010, 11:38:02 PM »
Feel. Touch. Connection to the plane. RC is...  remote.

Offline PerttiMe

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2010, 04:38:53 AM »
CL Pylon racing seems dangerous
Besides ... R/C Pylon Racing is the C/L conspiracy to get the R/C crowd to fly around in circles :)
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline Bob Hills

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2010, 04:54:42 AM »

 One thing about CL, when you CRASH you don't have to walk far to pick up the pieces.

 BOB HILLS in CT.
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2010, 06:14:38 AM »
    I have no particular problem with R/C nor do I think C/L is necessarily superior. But what puts me off so much about R/C is the fact that *so many* of the guys you see at the typical field are *just so insufferable* to talk to. A lot of the guys are complete and utter duffers, but presume that they are somehow magnificently skilled modelers because they managed to get their latest ARF trainer up and down successfully. And the *endless* discussion about how much their airplanes cost, where they bought it, etc. Or show you their latest kit and it looks like stuff I was embarrassed about when I was 10. I don't look down on them for not doing a good job, or being proud of their accomplishments - but they are typically so ignorant that they have NO IDEA how crappy it is, but to their level best to "top" anything you might say.  And then they start asking what I have, and oh, why don't you "move up" to R/C....  I am polite but I don't want to test my patience so I avoid it like the plague.

    I do know a lot of good guys in R/C and the guys I know who are serious about it and some are the equal of any modelers you and I have met. I have flown a fair bit of R/C over the years (more than most of the club duffers, although not recently and not at a high level), I'm not particularly good at it, but it was all essentially *on my own* because I don't want to deal with the weenies.

    Brett
  

 How correct you are!
  I also play with some R/C and I have met a lot of really nice R/C guys. There are a few that I concider good friends but the majority of them seem to be "weenies" (I could think of other things to call them). Control line fliers just seem to be a nicer group of people.

Offline George

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2010, 06:15:31 AM »
Actually, I admire the FF guys...they need to have everything correct BEFORE releasing the model. After that, they can only watch.

George
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Offline Bill Mohrbacher

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2010, 07:03:35 AM »
I started on CL and flew it quite a bit.  Then I got into RC and flew both.  Then I got a job wth no time left for models and flew nothing.  A While back I left "The Force" (the work force, I retired) and started flying RC again.   I have a couple of CL ships hanging in the garage and I've been promising (for 5 years) Phil Spillman I'll get them recovered and start flying them again.

But the reason for this response is that you CAN feel an RC model's response.  I fly some ARFs and I still build.  I test fly a lot of other people's planes.  You can feel a nose or tail heavy plane, even when you've tried to correct with trim.  You really can feel the sluggish response of a heavywing loading and the wonderful quick response of a light wing loading. You can feel the way a ship with a nice thick airfoil sails through loops like a flightstreak and a thin one churns through like a Ringmaster (sorry brotherhood).  Many of my friends agree with me, so I'm not alone on this.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2010, 09:20:34 AM »
When I started to learn R/C, quite a few of the older guys reminensed about their C/L days.  And a few agree with me, there is no moving up or even down.  To watch a well trimmed F/F go up and transition is a site to behold.  In C/L & R/C to watch a pattern being flown, a fast racing plane and most of all scale is fabulous.  You can always tell the newcomers in any of the facets of model airplanes.  Forgot about indoor in which they weigh their planes ready to fly in grams or fractions of ounces. H^^
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Offline Bill Heher

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2010, 09:22:34 AM »
I've flown a fair amont of R/C, still have a ton of gear and planes in the garage. I never quit flying C/L, and for the past 5+ years it has been my main focus.

I do enjoy R/C park fliers- but have a tendancy to fly them in a circle about 40-50 away and try to do loops and wingovers with them like a C/L stunter. It is pretty hard to do, but fun and I can fly in the cul-de-sac behind my house.
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Offline Robert Organ

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2010, 10:22:37 AM »
In reply to attitudes in rc, unfortunatly I have seen some of this in cl as well as rc. I also have restored a 1966 Mustang (car) and show it several times a year here in Tx. I really get a kick out of some of the "know it all " attitudes in the classic car hobby when most of these individuals have all of a sudden became "experts" on the subject. This type of behavior is not limited to model airplanes whatever the mode of control so I JUST DONT PAY IT MUCH ATTENTION, model aviation for the most part seems to be our generations hobby and if we dont support all of it and try to get more young people involved then I think we all know what will eventually happen. The RC people that I know who have knocked cl  for the most part have just never tried it in my opinion, so they are just missing out on what got this hobby started in the first place, without control line I wonder where model aviation would be today? BOB
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Offline don Burke

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2010, 11:19:42 AM »
I do both, and enjoy both.   Vertigo, age, and lack of practice prevent me from doing anything other than level flight with CL.  R/C, the ground's the limit, it tends to tilt up 90 degrees and I run into it!

As far as being "better", when one starts asserting themselves as "better" is when the problems start. 

R/C is to me a lot more destructive than CL.  I have Cl airplanes 40+ years old, still flyable.  I don't have any of my R/C airplanes I had at the same time.  At one time I was pylon racing in an "entry level" class.  I went to 6 races, the only time I came home with an intact airplane was the last one, 2nd place in the "BRONZE" class.  It now adorns the wall of my inner sanctum, although I did fly it just for giggles a couple of years ago.  That is similar to my experience with CL Combat.  The last five I had lasted a grand total of approx 45 sec, that was when you had to build them, not buy them by the crate.

To sum it all up, "Whatever floats your boat is the best!"     
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2010, 11:34:30 AM »
Just to confirm the purpose of this thread was not to belittle any other form of model aviation, but rather a tongue in cheek look at the differences between CL and RC.   y1
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Offline Bill Hodges

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2010, 11:36:06 AM »
"But the reason for this response is that you CAN feel an RC model's response.  I fly some ARFs and I still build.  I test fly a lot of other people's planes.  You can feel a nose or tail heavy plane, even when you've tried to correct with trim.  You really can feel the sluggish response of a heavywing loading and the wonderful quick response of a light wing loading. You can feel the way a ship with a nice thick airfoil sails through loops like a flightstreak and a thin one churns through like a Ringmaster (sorry brotherhood).  Many of my friends agree with me, so I'm not alone on this."

Bill, you are definitely not alone.  I could not agree more.  I can "feel" my RC planes, just not in the same way that I can feel my CL planes.

Bill Hodges
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Offline Phil Coopy

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2010, 12:42:07 PM »
I like both.  I build and fly RC scale and fly CLPA.  There are some great folks in both groups. I tend to fit into the C/L gang better because they are more mature, where in RC there are a lot of younger 3D hotdoggers around who tend to have an unquenchable taste for hogging the runway with undisiplined freestlye crap.  And both groups always seem to have that little click which is the opitomy of hubris......just standing around and trying to impress folks with their vast knowledge of the model aircraft hobby (that has been acquired in their year or two of experience). I definately have a preference for the CLPA guys because there doesn't seem to be much BS to put up with them.

Phil

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2010, 06:03:33 PM »
I really get a kick out of some of the "know it all " attitudes in the classic car hobby when most of these individuals have all of a sudden became "experts" on the subject. This type of behavior is not limited to model airplanes whatever the mode of control so I JUST DONT PAY IT MUCH ATTENTION, model aviation for the most part seems to be our generations hobby and if we dont support all of it and try to get more young people involved then I think we all know what will eventually happen. The RC people that I know who have knocked cl  for the most part have just never tried it in my opinion, so they are just missing out on what got this hobby started in the first place, without control line I wonder where model aviation would be today?


   The answer to the last question is *dead*. C/L kept the hobby alive during the late 50's (after Sputnik, basically the end of America's focus on Aviation) and until the early-mid 70's (when digital proportional R/C made it practical and enjoyable). I highly recommend Dave Thornburg's book "Do you speak Model Airplane?" for a good history. Although he comes close to apologizing for spending so much space on C/L...

   And certainly there are a good number of insufferable people in C/L as well. There are a half-dozen or so guys who are borderline intolerable. Half the guys here probably put me in that category, and I was close to referring to the problem as "having to deal with 500 <<name redacted>>'s" before I thought better of it!

      But there are *so darn many* of them in R/C - a far, far higher percentage and a far, far higher absolute total. And a far higher ratio of arrogance to competence - I mean, literally, 6 months ago they bought their first ARF trainer, now they can safely get it up and down most of the time, and they are the reincarnation of Kelly Johnson.  If I asked a question about R/C pattern, and someone from Team Chip Hyde, or Don Lowe, or Dave Brown, or Hanno Prettner, etc.  said it was silly, or said, "go fly 5000 flights, then get back to me" I would be willing to at least put up with it. But not some guy that's been doing it for 3 weeks at the lowest possible level. I don't see that at all in C/L - beginning competition fliers are generally a joy to deal with, and most sport fliers are as polite and respectful as they come to everyone.

    Maybe it's because they are so ignorant that they "don't know what they don't know", or maybe it's because they are 99% sport fliers. Talk about competition matters, and we have a *very easy* and very accurate way of separating the BS artist and unwarranted bragging from the experts. Not so in sport flying  - first liar doesn't stand a chance, and most of the culture seems to be directed towards establishing a pecking order and topping each other.   

    I am sure you are right that it doesn't just apply to R/C - my mom tell a lot of stories about the old biddies (of which she is one) who play bingo at the church. Seems like swimming in a shark tank!

   Having said all that, there are plenty or RC guys I liek, enjoy being around, and respect as modelers. And some of the clubs have been excellent supporters of C/L and modeling in general - Woodland-Davis Aeromodellers being a prime example. But for the most part I have had nothing but very bad experiences with a lot of R/C guys and don't enjoy being around them.

Brett
   

Offline Robert Organ

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2010, 07:26:12 PM »
Brett, I apologise if I have stirred this up, it was never my intention, most of my fondest memories are of growing up in Dallas enjoying control line(uc)from the very early fifties. Back then I am sure it was a much simpler time,I really enjoy this website, it has really contributed to my getting back to my model aviation "roots" control line and yes I just finished a scratch built Ringmaster after all these years. Thanks, BOB
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2010, 07:09:57 AM »
Sure glad you guys didn't pick on kthe grandaddy of model airplane flying.   H^^
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Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2010, 10:37:22 PM »
Gee John,

why would anyone pick on good ol'e Oba StClair?

Jim Pollock   ;D

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2010, 07:10:27 AM »
Sure glad you guys didn't pick on kthe grandaddy of model airplane flying.   H^^

Sorry John,
Oba st Clair didn't fly the first model airplane. You have to go back a lot farther then him.  H^^

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2010, 03:37:45 PM »
So there you are, Bobby!
I actually have started to "feel" the model while flying R/C after about two years of it. I can usually fly the whole Novice "Classic" pattern now without it looking too bad, and do have a bit of the "feel" perception during the flight. True, it's not pulling on my arm, but it is a real input to the brain. Just comes from a different source, I guess.
Chris...

 

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2010, 05:44:28 PM »
I flew R/C pattern from the late 60's thru 1994, and met a lot of good people. I started flying C/L again in 94 when I quit flying R/C pattern. I have to say for the most part, that C/L people are the most fun to be around. All of the time I was flying R/C, I kept up with what was going on in C/L through the magazines, and also at a few of the NAT's that I attended. When I started flying C/L again, I found the magic was still there, and as I was flying yesterday it hasn't changed. I was having the time of my life flying an old Dragon with an old Fox 35. I still fly a little R/C, mostly old biplanes, and old time free flights with radios, and old spark ign. engines. Did I mention I like "old stuff" LOL. I have flown models of all kinds most of my life, and I may end up where I started, flying rubber and hand launch gliders. But most of all is my love of engines, doing what they do best in flying my creations. Nothing like an old sparker in a free flight or contol line model. Might be because that is what I grew up around. My kids said when I started flying C/L again, that I had come "full circle". Guess they are right.
Jim Kraft

Offline Herb Calvin

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2010, 07:31:27 PM »
Brett, you've never met with all of us RC'ers..I fly both. Please don't put all of us in the same barrel.  Thanks H^^

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2010, 09:09:56 PM »
Free Flight was first in all of the reading I have done.  Then someone tried putting radios in the planes.  Then came the dizzy planes(control line).  Maybe I read the wrong books. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2010, 09:43:40 PM »
Brett, you've never met with all of us RC'ers..I fly both. Please don't put all of us in the same barrel.  Thanks H^^

    I was pretty careful not to. There are plenty of RCers that I have respect for at the same level as anybody in Cl. And a lot of the guys are pretty nice. But as a general experience, I find it really hard to take 3-month "experts" droning on about their exploits! 

     I think the essence of the problem is that 99% of R/C guys I run into are sport fliers, and 99% of the C/L fliers are competitors on some level.  I don't begrudge anyone their enjoyment on whatever level they want. But I don't really need to hear about it, at length, in a superior tone. I don't even put up with that from a 2-time NATs Stunt Champ, I am darn sure not going to put up with it from a guy who can barely fly trainers.

   This is all being taken a little too seriously, anyway - it's not a big problem for me or anyone else, and not every group has to get along with every other group. But someone asked.

     Brett

Offline George

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2010, 10:01:48 PM »
You'd probably have to go back to Leonardo da Vinci... or even perhaps further back.

Bob Hunt

Yeah but wasn't he flying FF?  ;D

George
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Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2010, 10:10:23 PM »
Hi Brett,
It is a different group at the R/C field. I determined that early on and decided that coming out in the afternoon when the wind is blowing and the Pattern guys are practicing is a better time. The ARF guys (oh, that's all of us!) and big talkers have all gone to lunch or back to "the boss" and I don't get any flying lessons from the rank amateur.
When I ask for help from the Pattern guys, they have real trim and technique help to offer. Plus I'm sure they remember being at my level! My cute little ARF Kaos makes the older guys chuckle anyway.
I like what Jim Kraft said, he's going backward through the years and might end up flying hand launch! I was eyeing those old Comet Cadet and Cloud Boy  kits that Guillows picked up just the other day...
Chris...

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2010, 10:22:46 PM »
Hi Brett,
It is a different group at the R/C field. I determined that early on and decided that coming out in the afternoon when the wind is blowing and the Pattern guys are practicing is a better time. The ARF guys (oh, that's all of us!) and big talkers have all gone to lunch or back to "the boss" and I don't get any flying lessons from the rank amateur.
When I ask for help from the Pattern guys, they have real trim and technique help to offer.


   Exactly/ Talking to those guys is just like talking to other C/L hotshots. It's an interesting phenomenon that the guys with the least to brag about do it the most, and the guys with a legitimate claim to, don't. So in that way, it's a lot like C/L.

   Brett

Offline Steven Kientz

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2010, 04:15:34 PM »
Went to my club yesterday, brought a SL combat plane.Four of us flew it( me and 3 ex CL fliers) until it was worn out. I left with a repairable plane and we were all still friends. Try that with somebody's Rc plane.

Steve
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Offline Frank Imbriaco

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2010, 07:37:51 PM »
My observations after flying Ukie during the 60s and 70s , long delay(motorcyles, Vettes, women,kids), R/C Pattern 1995- current and just lately,Ukie again.
-Both are difficult. R/C Pattern schedules change  every two years and the stuff is incredibly tough to do. When you finally start to make it look presentable, the schedule changes again.
-Young R/C Pattern flyers are damn near unbeatable- timing, eye-hand coordination, etc.Vision is key.
-Many  of the same Ukie Stunt flyers who were at the top 40 years ago still are there today.
-Ukie flyers are great builders
-The majority of R/C Pattern flyers do not/ cannot/or have no desire to build.The few that do are excellent.
-The builder of the model rule really separates us. I wish R/C Pattern enforced it, but I  also know why it's not.

Offline Clayton Berry

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2010, 11:31:57 PM »
Motorcycles with kickstarters.  Two cylinders.  External oil lines.  Vibration.  The latest stuff is great, but give me an old Amal carb to decipher. 

Hey, CL is what I did with my dad.  Glad it is still around.

I won't knock anyone, unless they're playing a computer game on their fat ass.
Clayton - forever busy committing random acts of coolness

Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2010, 02:32:17 AM »
On a quick skim through these posts, I - finally - feel a need to add a few simple thoughts...

..."Better" is a kind of "absolute" declaration, imo. What one person likes better, IS better, for that person... It is more subjective than objectively universal.

... I've flown some FF, including Indoor Peanut Rubber, and enjoyed it - to a degree. I've flown stinkpot and soaring RC, and enjoyed it, somewhat. Neither gives a full-time, physical sense of being involved in what the airplane does, as does even the tamest, least capable CL plane I've ever flown. Even if I had the money and the interest, I wouldn't buy a Gallardo for someone else to 'experience.' I'd rather control and direct the accelerations, sounds, and sensory  experiences of such a machine, myself. That step of 'distance' from those sensations is where FF and RC fail - for me.

... Not knocking the provider as such, but the frequently mentioned attitude of many newby RCers about any "lesser" kind of model flight reminds me of the old comment about puffed-up Cadillac drivers: "As a matter of fact, I DO own the whole G.dd..n road; I paid enough for it." Change 'road' to 'sky', and some of those newby RC guys offer to show their receipt from Tower to prove it. Thanks be, there are still many 'good guy' modelers flying RC. I wish there were more of them...

... Perhaps a knock at the mainstream suppliers, after all, is the seemingly deliberate effort to DE-emphasize everything except big-bux starter kits, or phenomenally expensive jumbo-scale RC. If you think we yo-yo's have a hard time finding supplies at the LHS, consider the plight of the sport FF guys... Not knocking the LHS, but realistic in understanding that hobby supplies are a high-inventory thing, and unless the merchandise pays the rent, the shopkeeper can't keep his doors open. We get great service from both extremes: high-volume mail-order houses, AND small "shade-tree" specialty operations. Being aware of the sources of needed equipment makes us valuable to newcomers - most of whom don't know about such sources.

... Pilots of "full-size" airplanes fly from the center of the space their aircraft travels. FF guys stand way outside that, or chase cross country on a 'bike to get their models back. RCers stand in defined 'boxes' on the flight line, and watch their models - from outside their flight paths. CL fliers may not be inside their models, but can you deny that we fly from the center of the airspace our aircraft use?

... There is a necessary mutual trust and reliance among CL fliers. An old saw I've mentioned to many fellow ukies: "You have to be good enough to make friends you can trust, to launch and retrieve your models. You have to be a good enough person to earn the trust of other ukies to launch and retrieve THEIR models. ...Unless your arms are 60' long or longer - and if they are, you don't even need the lines."

... Spin-off from the above: We are obliged to be more open, sharing and concerned about our flying buddies, to make sure they find gratification in their improvement as fliers. If they don't find that, they won't be around next year, or perhaps the year after. Bored and unappreciated, unrespected, why should they persist in CL. (As an RC club officer on a few occasions, I was troubled by the rapid turnover of new buddies who reached a minimal level, didn't care to - and weren't encouraged to - go beyond, and dropped away after 2 or 3 years. Made a nuisance for keeping the AMA Roster current, at the least. I also rued the disappearances of nice guys so frequently... CL has so many varying types of challenge, at reasonable cost, that shifting emphasis occasionally can be lastingly refreshing.)

... Spin-off #2 from above: We are more concerned to introduce new fellow ukies to the range of personal 'involvement' in the activity.  Merely standing in the middle of a defined circle, watching a noisy machine churn around until it is out of fuel, is the very least of it. The tactics of two-up flying, whether racing or combat, are a new challenge. The stunt pattern remains the Everest that cannot be ultimately mastered - continued improvement is a durable challenge! Scale? Carrier? Or even simply tying fantastic knots in the sky? ALL fun, physical and personal. As to introducing new pals, I've seen more happy welcoming for younger fliers in CL than at any RC field I've been to in the last generation of more. Kids are a nuisance, too often, there. Or, perhaps, as a substitute for Dad-Son 'bonding' - as soon as Junior's quicker learning curve leaves Dad in the dust, Dad finds it increasingly difficult to provide a ride... Not so in CL, in my experience. And if the family can't come up with the "wheels," a flying buddy - almost guaranteed - will! Families become trusted and concerned friends, too.

... We choose friends (and sometimes wish we could choose family.) The natural interdependence we CL fliers MUST observe makes us a good likelihood to serve as a supportive, concerned and out-reaching surrogate extended family to many fine young teens and even young adults. Unless our arms are 60' or so long...

... Experience and slyness don't always trump youthful reflexes and learning speed, but can always challenge them. That makes a solid reason for the Old Masters to stay active. ...Which, in itself, is a great experience for our younger guys: - They can see that the "legends" they've read about get prop nicks on their fingers, just like they do. ...That they sometimes blow a figure or a flight, just like they do. But also that the old goats are very concerned to share their knowledge and experience so the new guy can do better. ...And that they very supportively recognize the new guy's successes.

... And, for the truly involved, there is the concept that CL flight involves FIVE factors, where FF and RC are 'restricted' to the basic 4. To the Lift/weight, thrust/drag basic, we add the tether! (Check with Brett, Howard, or Igor - or until very recently (sob) Wild Bill, on this...)  We may be restricted to control of "pitch" motion, but all the axes of flight are involved. Just how far do YOU want to go, into the science of CL flight? 

So, what's to like about CL? Better question: What's NOT to like?
\BEST\LOU

Offline M Spencer

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2010, 04:48:16 AM »
The pronunciation of R/C can be missinterpreted . They wouldve been much better to call it " wire-less " .

Would you call your buisness arcy world  ??

Offline Lester Nicholson

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2010, 09:01:53 AM »
Cmaradaree/fellowship. Back in the late 60's/early 70's I left control-line for R/C because everyone else did and it was rewarding and fun - then three years ago I made new friends that were my age ( I;m 63 ) flying control-line in Clanton Alabama. Ijoined the club and never l,ooked back. For me it's the fellowship w/good men that share a common intrest.     Nick

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2010, 09:13:20 AM »
While some of these arguments seem to categorize R/C flyers as
"insufferable", or worse, I'm reminded of people like Ken Willard, Scott Chrintensen,
Bob Thacker, Monty Groves, and many others who were unselfish in their
encouragement and help to not only me, but to their fellow R/C flyers, who
certainly benefitted.

Floyd in OR

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Why Control Line Is Better Than RC
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2010, 08:41:03 AM »
Don't forget Richard Sarpolous(spelling).  He has desigeC/L & R/C for Flying Models how many years now?  Got an e-mil from him several years ago when I built his Wild Goose.  Call mine the Blue Goose and it was a hand full in the early flights. Need to get it out more often as it is a sight to see from the center of the circle. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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