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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Bootlegger on March 09, 2010, 05:14:57 AM
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Manufactures the 3608s thinner that I see spoken of here on this forum, and what dope's does it work with and do you need a dose of retarder with it or not ?
Next question, any body using a plasticizer what brand and where do you get it and does it come with instructions?
Thanks a lot guy's...
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DuPont makes the 3608S. I have used it extensively with Brodak dopes with no problems at all. Here on the Florida coast, it normally requires a little retarder due to our high humidities.
I have recently started using DuPont 3602S which is a slower evaporating thinner. I am getting good results with it using no retarder.
Can't help you with the plasticizer question.
Bill Hodges
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I have used Dupont 3608s for years in Sig dope, and it always works very well
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If anyone is still getting the stuff then your doing better then me. I've tried every paint shop for 50 miles around and get the same answer. It isn't available anymore.
Dennis
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I have just came from the Dupont Paint site. Didn't realize there was so much. Did not see a listing for thinners. The do have a contact icon in which they might be able to help you. My local paint store that had Dupont supples closed its doors. No note of relocating or why they closed. Good luck, H^^
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3608s is just a fast dry lacquer thinner, and 02s is a little slower. I dont see why your results would be any different using any other brand.
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Absolutely wrong! I have tried some less expensive laquer thinners for cleaning and mixing and have wound up with a jellied mess. Be careful...
W.
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3608s is just a fast dry lacquer thinner, and 02s is a little slower. I dont see why your results would be any different using any other brand.
Hi Philip,
3608 is a medium drying speed lacquer thinner, 3602 is the slow drying thinner. I have used a lot of both while painting my antique airplane/auto restorations. Just FYI.
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Absolutely wrong! I have tried some less expensive laquer thinners for cleaning and mixing and have wound up with a jellied mess. Be careful...
W.
Hi Ward,
The old lacquer thinners work well in butyrate and nitrate dopes; the thinners that are incompatible with dopes are the new low VOC thinners and they will, as you said, turn dope into a jellied mess. Dupont brand labeled the old thinners as 3608S, 3602S, etc.; they label the new low VOC thinners as V3608S, V3602S, etc. This is an apparently minor change in the label that is easy to miss. I'm not sure what other manufacturers use for designations for their thinners but I'm sure they do something similar.
The old thinners are getting more and more scarce and are becoming "unobtanium" in some cases. Interestingly enough, you can still buy lacquer thinner made to the old specs at Home Depot, Lowes, and hardware stores...? Who knows?
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the OLD thinners may be getting hard to find, but guess what, the CORRECT thinner that is designed and formulated for using with Brodak Dope, is still available,, from BRODAK.
Laquer is an engineered compound, designed to work a specific way, please, use the correct thinner that was designed and engineered to be used with the product, it WILL save you headaches in the long run. YOu only save pennies per hour by using cheaper thinner its a False sense of economy to be using less expensive thinner. HOw many hours do you have invested in getting the plane ready for paint? and what will you save, 15 or 20 $.?
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Dennis:
eye
We buy our Dupont products from an outfit called Finish Masters. They are a chain outfit but I do not know what parts of the country they cover, other than the SE.
Bill Hodges
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Ty,
If you can get some TCP don't! It is a deadly cumulative toxin that the kidneys and liver can not get out of your system. In the "A" fuels side of the Missile Fuels Branch we had to have a blood test every month to check for TCP. It is BAD stuff. n1
Pat
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TCP is commonly used in full scale aircraft to scavenge lead when using 100LL in engines designed for 80 octane fuel. Readily available from full scale aviation sources like Aircraft Spruce.
As for safety, it is an organophosphate. The organophosphate family includes fun stuff like pesticides (Parathion and Malathion are two) and nerve agents (VX). They inhibit acetylcholineesterase and therefore screw up the transmission of impulses from neuron to neuron. It is both an acute and chronic toxin. IOW, it can kill you right now, or it can cause long term effects.
But handling is similar to handling concentrated pesticides. Avoid skin contact, use gloves, wash hands. It is a pretty large molecule, so inhalation shouldn't be a huge hazard, but I would work with good ventilation. I don't see a vapor pressure listed anywhere. The MSDS for TCP don't show any respiratory hazard.
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I used Randolph's and Certified dopes. I also used the thinners designed for these products. While it's not a guarantee of success, you're chances of having things to the way you want them to are enormously increased by using products designed to work together.
As Mark notes, you pays your money and takes your chances if you go off the reservation (nice mix of metaphors if I do say so myself).
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Over in Estherwood, LA there is a Randolph dealer. Here you can get quality dopes and thinners at a reasonable cost. I buy mine from an outfit here in Fort Worth, clear and thinners by the gallon and colors by the quart. You can checkout the whole product line at www.randolphaircraft.com
Don
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I have not had good luck with Crown brand lacquer thinner available here locally. I paid about the same amount for a quart of Sig thinner as a gallon of Crown thinner. The Sig thinner worked much better. Straight acetone seemed to clean my brushes better than the Crown lacquer thinner. Sig thinner cleaned the brushes even better than the straight acetone.
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If I were president, first thing is get rid of EPA. They have gone too far. LL~ LL~ LL~ If they want to stop bad gasses in the atmosphere, they need to stop all volcanos present and future, Yeah right. #^ y1 LL~
.. as long as your kidneys and liver hold out. Well, include your central nervous system, kidneys, liver, lungs, skin and eyes. And bone marrow. And reproductive organs. Other than that - we really need the EPA off our back!
I suspect most people started using 3608S and 3602S from watching Windy videos. And be aware that the Dupont automotive clear (e.g. the once popular 380S) and Lucite acrylic lacquers which mix precisely and spray, cover, level, adhere and otherwise perform so well (in contrast to most butyrate dope) AREN'T fuel proof. If you spill ordinary rubbing alcohol on it, it softens and turns white immediately..
If you want to understand the hazards of these thinners, here's a definitive link from Dupont, the manufacturer itself.
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/dr/MSDS/US_en_GNRC_3-0_RFN.pdf
You'll see 3602S and 3608S listed on the next to last page. Note the January 1, 2010 date on this document.
L.
"Lots of people know a good thing the minute the other fellow sees it first." -J.E. Hedges
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Whoa, I did not know that. H^^ I guess that's why it is no longer used in gasoline. I wonder if it is the main ingredient in Dave Browns Flex-ALL??? D>K
I could be very wrong, but it seemed to me that the Flex-All I purchased and used was primarily castor oil..
I'm sure Dupont and PPG et al have some fantastic plasticizer products, but the castor oil (if that is what it is) works pretty well.
L.
"It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do." -Jerome K. Jerome
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Thanks a lot fellow's, I appreciate the info, and as Paul Harvey used to say " Good Day"...