Whip it, whip it good....

[Paul Taylor]

Ok take off of a bad song sorry.

I was watching a video of Dan Banjock flying and I noticed that it look like he whipped his plane as he was flying. Also was watching a old video of Windy and he talked about whipping a plane. So tell us when you whip your plane or when do you not whip a plane while flying the pattern.

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

I prefer to whip before flight to get my planes in the proper flight mode.

[Steve Helmick]

I'm not skilled enough to actually do it, but I know you'd whip for the 1/4-1/2 lap before any of the high horsepower maneuvers, or any that tax your engine's power significantly...but especially the vertical square 8.  Steve

[Paul Taylor]

Thanks Steve. I think Dan was whipping the wing over.  Makes sense. The plane is as heavy as is it gets with a full tank of fuel.

[John Stiles]

I learned to whip my Cox "Mustang" when I was just a kid. When we finally ran outta fuel, dad wouldn't buy anymore, so we whipped it good! It helps to have a brother who can run fast.

[Bill Little]

Hi Paul,

With the power available today, it isn't as common, or as necessary, a technique as it once was.  I remember whipping the model for the hourglass, etc., so to get the airspeed up to begin the maneuver. 

The difference in a modern .61-.76 powered stunt plane weighing in the high 50 to low 60 ounce range and a Fox .35 powered one weighing in the low-mid 50 ounce range is quite significant.

Big Bear

[Paul Taylor]

Yea that was a old Windy video

[W.D. Roland]

Hi Paul,

With the power available today, it isn't as common, or as necessary, a technique as it once was.  I remember whipping the model for the hourglass, etc., so to get the airspeed up to begin the maneuver. 

The difference in a modern .61-.76 powered stunt plane weighing in the high 50 to low 60 ounce range and a Fox .35 powered one weighing in the low-mid 50 ounce range is quite significant.

Big Bear

As I have recently learned. The power to pull vertical  that comes from a .60  after after my wobbly airspeed killing 4 leaf clover is amazing!

[Peter Nevai]

Helpful hint.

If you want to get really good at whipping, select a flying spot with something that obstructs you landing run. You get extra incentive to whip it past that pesky hole, curb, mound, water hazard, etc.  

[John Stiles]

Helpful hint.

If you want to get really good at whipping, select a flying spot with something that obstructs you landing run. You get extra incentive to whip it past that pesky hole, curb, mound, water hazard, etc.  

STUMP

[Dick Pacini]

The difference in a modern .61-.76 powered stunt plane weighing in the high 50 to low 60 ounce range and a Fox .35 powered one weighing in the low-mid 50 ounce range is quite significant.

Big Bear

What did you leave off the Fox 35 plane to get down to low-mid 50 ounces?

(note to self: quarter-inch paint is heavy)

[Larry Cunningham]

It's energy management, simply. Converting kinetic to potential energy and back. I think almost everyone does it, consciously or not. You can extend and retract your flight arm to contribute as well as leading the model at times. If you have a model with absolutely superb power delivery for the stunt pattern, it's likely less useful.

Many very good pilots seem quite animated while it is less obvious on others. But virtually no one seems to fly from a constant pivot point. I wonder if "outside the circle" mechanical control mechanisms suffer a bit from not being able to pump the model..

L.

"Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand." -anonymous?

 

[Tom Niebuhr]

One of the tricks used in the Fox .35 days was to whip to enter the 1st upper right loop of the clover. Many of the newer people never learned this  because they now have more power.

[Bob Reeves]

First thing I noticed when I went from a Stalker 61 powered Legacy to a Saito 56 powered Score was the durn thing had more than enough "power" to pull it over the top without the need for energy management on my part. The down side is we get spoiled and forget how..

[M Spencer]

all the good fox ones , the Detroiters , weighed about 36 . according to the scribble .

[Larry Cunningham]

.. and isn't one of the major desirable features of electric power its uniform delivery? Even with the "run at one speed" setup (vs upcoming "2/4 simulation" mode) it makes for easy energy management. And, speaking of 2/4 modes, the venerable Fox .35 was quite good at, with well matched ship/engine combos the epitome of excellent CL stunt ships.

The need for pilot energy management remained, as those ships were underpowered by today's standards. And the very lightest models were more difficult to fly in the wind, due to their very lack of mass. If you compare our modern ships, they have greater power, are larger and more massive, and have more drag (re: thicker wings). Larger thrust, drag, lift, and weight vectors all contribute to stability of speed.

The special requirements of our CL stunt pattern have driven the evolution of model design, and there is little doubt that today's top competition models are more capable, and perhaps easier to fly (well). But I'll wager that experiences with the original ubiquitous Fox .35/Nobler style setups gave a lot of pleasure to fliers, and may still be preferred by some to newer ones.

A very enjoyable flight of my Roadrunner sticks in my mind. The classic, beautiful Roadrunner design is out of step with modern stunt models, with short tail moment, thinner wing airfoil, small stab/elevator area, long nose, etc. It was designed for unmuffled Fox .35 power, yet even with a heavier "modern" engine (OS .40 FP with CL muffler), it was a pure pleasure to fly in calm cool air. That flight made me question modern paradigms a bit. But later under less desirable conditions (including engine run), I wasn't so delighted with it.

The first time I flew Mark Bowen's Magnum with an ST .60 my initial sensation was that it was pulling my arm off. But shortly I concluded that it was a big old pussy cat, a sweet flying ship that went where pointed. It was easy to fly, even though I could feel the ST .60 vibes a bit through the lines. It was a convincing experience (I greatly respect Mike's SIG Magnum design).

Ultimately it still comes down to pilot/model interaction and energy managemnt.

L.

"There is a certain majesty in simplicity which is far above all the quaintness of wit." -Alexander Pope