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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: LARRY RICE on November 23, 2007, 09:11:02 AM
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OK! I am not in a panic yet but I am shopping for a new balsa dealer, since Lonestar is not able to fill orders. If you know of a good supplier of balsa at a fair price please let me know and include their phone number.
When Lonestar is back up and running I will return to them as I have been with them almost 30 years.
Larry
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I recently received an order of wood from National balsa. Reasonable service time. The sheets were not as generous as lonestar. If anything the 1/16x3x36 was a small fraction of an inch short of the standard 3x36. Also noticed that one side of many sheets weren't finished very well.
This was the first time that I had ordered from National, and I don't foresee a problem ordering from them while waiting for Lonestar to get back into operation.
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SIG Mfg has a good assortment of balsa. I used to buy theirs when a club member had a dealership with them as I could get it in bulk quantities. Have fun, DOC Holliday
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I've ordered from National and found them to be very good. All sheets were well finished in my case and of at least the sized advertized. Not the lightest wood on the planet, but acceptable. I'd order from them again.
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Any one know were to get 4-6 pound balsa?
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I take my beam balance scale and hit all of the sources (LHS, Hobby Lobby, etc) and weight each piece of each size I am looking for.
Takes a little time but I do not care, (I am retired, he he). Just take your time and you may find some good balsa among the junk. It is not junk just RC grade.
I have attached a picture of my balsa scale weighing a piece of 1/32 x 3 x 36 and it weighs 5+ grams. About 6 lb density.
Clancy
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I have attached a picture of my balsa scale weighing a piece of 1/32 x 3 x 36 and it weighs 5+ grams. About 6 lb density.
Clancy
That scale is very handy for hauling around to hobby shops when looking locally. Some of my FF buddies used them, many years ago. I kinda wish I knew where to get one...any clues would be appreciated. D>K Steve
PS: The last balsa I bought was a few years back, before Webster's went under for the last time. It was "Bud Nosen" brand, and was nicer than most I've seen. Light and STRAIGHT. I'm not sure if he's still cutting wood, but I'd sure check it out. Bud was known for Giant Scale R/C kits, but now is into small rubber scale stuff. I tried Google, but it's going to take more work than that. Check the advertiser's index in all the model mags. I think he was in Las Vegas.
I've got a lot of balsa from Superior Balsa (Sal Taibi). Not sure if he's still in business or not. Maybe somebody local (LA area) would know?
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The most common source of that scale is the local head shop. They are most commonly used to weigh other things (of the leafy variety) %^@. I learned of this info while researching a school project......yeah, thats it!....... a school project! 8) (Hey, I went to college in the '80s, what can I say...?)
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4-6 lb balsa, the so-called "punky" stuff, has the advantage of being super soft,
and carving easily. Its use is justified in free flight, and often competitive CL stunt.
However, keep in mind that the very softest balsa is NOT generally the strongest
per weight. For example, a slightly heavier cut of 1/16" balsa can perhaps replace
super punky 1/8" balsa, with the same or better strength. If it is twice as strong
but not twice as heavy, you're ahead.
I usually make my wing ribs from 3/32" and 1/8" balsa, simply because they are far
easier to deal with than 1/16" material. And, 4-6 lb 1/16" sheet is not the optimum
choice for balsa ribs, not just because they are overly fragile, but because the bulk
of the rib gets cut away with interior cutouts. So, the amount of weight saved for
a 1/16" set of ribs over a 3/32" set of ribs, finished, is a small amount, insignificant.
If you really want to save weight on a wing construction, look closely at construction
methods. For example, you can eliminate a leading edge spar completely, with a single
molded planking sheet for it. Virtually all of the important strength is retained, meanwhile
you've eliminated at least a 1/4" square spar, or maybe even a 3/8" square spar.
Sitka spruce is an example of a wood that is considerably stronger than balsa for a
given weight. Piper Cubs use it for wing spars; you can bet that if balsa was stronger,
it would be used. A few clever guys, like Tom Morris, have exploited spruce for spars.
For example, you replace a 1/4" square balsa top/bottom spar with a 1/4" tall x 1/8"
wide spruce spar. The weight of the spars is comparable, but the spruce one has
more useful strength.
That all said, carving this punky balsa material is a pure joy, but if you are like me, it
makes you a bit sick to waste and carve away the hollow inside of a top or bottom
block..
A better solution then is to mold 1/8" balsa sheet for these blocks.. Cheaper, and
actually stronger. And, my own preference is to use two 1/16" balsa sheets in
lamination for molding. They comply easier to the mold, and you can carefully
peel them off the mold, apply the very thinnest coat of epoxy glue, and remold.
The result is an incredibly strong laminated shell.
For fuselage sides, I always use 3/32" instead of 1/8" thick wood. And I use either
1/64" or 1/32" plywood laminate inside doublers for the nose to aft of the flap
hinge line; the nose curvature is molded in with this laminate. The technique is
borrowed from a Bob Hunt construction video tape.. The other thing I do, which
improves rigidity of the fuselage aft section is to CAD-produce formers all tilted
at 60 degrees, the so called "geodesic" geometry of equilateral triangles. AND, I
provide curvature in two axes, the fuselage sides are convex about 1/8" or more,
which "cups" the surface. And the aft fuselage sides are also curved like a banana
when viewed from the top. The result is a slightly stressed skin structure which
is light and rigid, and builds absolutely true without needing a jig.
Now, remember I was talking about eliminating excess material in the ribs? Well,
I do the same in the formers in the aft fuselage, which are cut out, not with a
rectangular shape, but an elliptical one. This is far stronger than any cutout with
sharp corners..
Finally, I regularly make up 1/8" balsa "plywood", with cross grained 1/16" material, which
is ideal for the formers in the aft fuselage. In fact, I did the last ones with 1/32" material
in the vertical axis and 1/16" in the horizontal. These formers are very strong, much
stronger than the equivalent 1/8" soft punky balsa counterparts.
The point of all this is to suggest that you can do quite a bit of optimization of the material
on balsa structures, and use slightly heavier (considerably cheaper and more available)
balsa to benefit of strength and finished weight. Extra design work is required, but there
is payback.
L.
"Tell the truth, and so puzzle and confound your adversaries." -Henry Wotton
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Black Hawk Models produces over one thousand kits per year of all types. In general we perfer heavier balsa as our kits are designed for the sport flier and most are not meant for contest use. The cost of balsa directly effects the cost of our kits and we try very hard to keep the prices down.
Thank You for your suggestions, I will be shopping on Monday.
Larry H^^
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Ty,
You gave me a chuckle.
That balsa you can't tell from basswood is what I call "RC Balsa". In the
past, I've taken some ball bat grade blocks over to my friend's house, to
get it ripped with his extra fine bladed table saw. Then I took those shiny
new sheets to the club auction, where the RCers really snapped them up!
One guy even said, "Nice and heavy! Perfect." <=
Best regards,
L.
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Reply to Steve on #6
Those little scales are also used for weighing letters, and carburetor floats. I often find them in auto parts stores, or stationary stores. (Just in case you'd rather not be caught lurking around a h--d shop)!
Ward H^^
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Actually, Superior Balsa did move to Albuquerque and they have gone out of business so it does not exist any more.
I have scales available. You can see them at http://www.clcentral.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SCALES (http://www.clcentral.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SCALES)
Jim Snelson
Control Line Central
www.clcentral.com
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After the 1990 nats Gid Adkisson sent me one of those cute little portable "beam" scales, if you can get hold of him I'm sure he could steer you to them. I'm thinking he said at the time that he got them at a medical supply house? Good luck. (They are wonderfully handy for carrying into the hobby shop and REALLY confuse the r/c guys!)
Blessings,
Will
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I knew of a LHS who stopped carrying contest balsa because it never sold.
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I just checked and Balsa USA still sells balsa. I have not bought from them for years, but I remember it as a good experience.
George
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A good way to use balsa.
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A good way to use balsa.
Leo, good looking use of balsa, but, leadouts are on wrong wing tip, unless negative was reversed. DOC Holliday
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Just guessing Doc I think that the negative is the way it is supposed to be. Look at the wing tip of the plane next to it, and I see NO leadouts on that "wrong" wing. One plane for each direction of flight?? I think so.
Bigiron
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I was doing holiday shopping on Amazon - found a unique gift that might be of interest to those looking for alternate source for balsa.
$2.99 + $4.49 shipping gets you 10 balsa woods tree seeds. Says that "Balsa seeds sprout quickly, and young trees may grow 12 feet in their first six months"- "does well in sunny tropical climates"
maybe some of our PAMPA friends living in appropriate climate can start their own balsa tree farm?- maybe BOM can be modified to give extra points for anyone who can show their model was constucted using home grown balsa?
More Details below
Amazon gift item: $2.99 + Balsa Wood Tree 10 Seeds - Ochroma pyramidale.Tropical tree to 90', fast growing, trunk smooth - usually buttressed, large 6" white flowers, with the leaves ovate to nearly circular 1' across. One of the lightest and strongest of all commercial woods. Pound for pound stronger than oak. Native to the tropical regions of South America, the balsa, or corkwood, tree is noted for its extremely lightweight wood. The word balsa is Spanish for float or raft. Spanish explorers found the natives of the New World using the wood for rafts. Balsa trees have large, ivory-colored flowers and large, heart-shaped leaves that fall off every year. Balsa seeds sprout quickly, and young trees may grow 12 feet in their first six months. In ten years they may be as tall as 90 feet and as much as 3 feet in diameter. Well-seasoned balsa is the lightest wood known, only half as heavy as cork. A cubic foot of balsa wood weighs only 6 to 8 pounds. There are many air spaces within it, helping to make the wood good insulation against heat, cold, vibration, and electricity. Balsa wood has many commercial uses. Because of its insulating properties, it is used for lining incubators, refrigerators, and cold-storage rooms as well as for soundproofing airplanes. It has long been used in making model airplanes and other toys. A handsome specimen for sunny tropical climates. Makes a great house plant or even a bonsai. Indoors needs lots of sun. One of the fastest growing trees known to man.
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That truly adds new meaning to "Grow your own"!!! LL~ LL~ LL~
Bob Z.
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...Tropical tree to 90', fast growing, trunk smooth - usually buttressed, large 6" white flowers, with the leaves ovate to nearly circular 1' across.
... A handsome specimen for sunny tropical climates. Makes a great house plant or even a bonsai.
I'm trying to picture a ninety foot bonsai... :## H^^
George
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Actually all of Leos planes are built backwards, he is one of them guys that fly clockwise. I think its just to keep anyone else from flying his planes S?P LL~
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Mark,
You can fly the other direction, can't you? I thought everyone could. ^-^
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Ok Randy so I guess maybe I set myself up for that one huh? yeah but Leo flys that way upright, I am usually upside down when I go that way, or um, inverted, or um rather my PLANE is inverted.
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Out of curiosity I did a web search to see if I could find other sources of balsa:
http://www.specializedbalsa.com/products/index.php
Loveland, CO. Contest balsa, end grain balsa in different thicknesses, (wish they were around when I was making table tennis blades), basswood, contest balsa (4-6 lb) available at twice the quoted price. balsa sawdust (supposedly makes great fertilizer when mixed with soil - the folks at Lone Star said they didn't know what to do with the piles and piles of it that they had..), laser cutting service, BBS. Seems to be geared towards Science Olympiad bridge builders.
http://www.nationalbalsa.com/
Ware, MA. Contest balsa available, basswood, laser cutting, hardwood.
http://www.acsupplyco.com/wood/balsa.htm
Bulk quantities only, also carries walnut, maple, cherry, etc.
http://www.usahobby.com/materials/wood.php
Clermont, FL. Looks like a hobby shop. Only 18" lengths. Weird.
http://aerobalsa.bigcartel.com/category/airfoils
Want to build an autogyro? You've come to the right place.
http://www.thewoodbox.com/hardwoods/balsawood.htm
Or building a mandolin? Try building a balsa one...
http://www.solarbo.peachhost.com/
Miami, FL. I used to use Solarbo balsa when I was in high school. Seems expensive, until you realize the price for bulk bundles includes shipping.
http://www.balsausa.com/
What to say? Well known to most of us.
http://www.peck-polymers.com/store/Category.asp?Cguid={5AA9D028-66FC-4533-B5FE-1B4EC64FC5DA}&Category=BuildingMaterials%3ABalsa%2CPeckContest
Contest wood! Want 3 lb. stock?
http://www.timgoldstein.com/BalsaInventoryView.asp?Cguid=5AA9D028-66FC-4533-B5FE-1B4EC64FC5DA
This stuff is for those far more exalted than us mere control-liners, whose balsa requirements far exceed ours. (Fly F1D, anyone?)
Iskandar
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I started buying Sig balsa over forty years ago and still think they have some of the best. Riley's supply will be sorely missed though.
Jim
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I don't know if ya'll have checked out Lonestar's webpage lately, but looks to me like they can rebuild.Looks like an awful lot of untouched balsa laying around. Bill Lee, the webmaster, has posted images of the damages to the site:
http://www.lonestar-models.com/
Check it out...
RG
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The pictures are heartbreaking. I hope Riley and the gang will rebuild, but, knowing insurance companies the balsa and anything usable will probably be headed for the local dump. DOC Holliday
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I hope Riley canput it all back together! Riley and Lone Star have been great "phone" friends for many years.
Someone needs to go "out back" and head off the trucks headed for the dump (if it goes down like Doc says) and get the balsa that CAN be used!! Looks like some of it was not totally ruined. I did that at one Hobby Shop I had a part time job in 35 years ago. A lot of stock was ordered into the dumpster. I just happened to be parked beside the dumpster that day...............