Author Topic: What kit for intermediate flier? (Read 3632 times)

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **on:** February 20, 2009, 12:51:21 AM »

Hi all. I have thinking of buying a kit that would maybe take me to the next level of flying. Now I am just a fun flier type and have no wish to get into competition, but would like to improve my flying. I have a Brodack P-40, but messed up the wing and didn't put the dihedral into it. I have discussed this with another member here and now know how to fix it....and I will. But I am thinking more along the lines of a real CLPA type aircraft, except I would like to keep it in the .40 to .46 size. I simply can not afford a .60 size ship.

I am shy on funds, so one of those high zoot kits is out of the question....I have to save up to get out of town! LOL Is there a kit out there that meets my criteria, that can be purchased for around $100 dollars? If not, what plans would you recommend?

Thanks for the time and thought.

Steve Bakac · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2009, 02:32:37 AM »

g/day
You can try Sam's Stuff n Hobbies ,he has a vector 40 kit that would be great for you at a low price of $79.99.
Regards Steve

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2009, 04:00:13 AM »

I would recomend the Brodak Oriental. Good 40 size flyer, thats a classic legal airplane. You can kill two birds with one stone.
Wayne

Clayton Berry · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:03:37 AM »

A Sig Twister and any modern .40. Save the plans, and build another couple three.

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:15:57 AM »

Those are three excellent choices and airplanes that I have been thinking about. I do have the Full fuse Oriental ARF from Brodack (b'day present last year), but I was putting off building it till I knew I wouldn't wreck it too quickly! LOL And I mean really.....how can you not love the classic look?

The Vector is a very nice looking airplane and I have a Brodack .40 that should be the perfect size for it. Any comments about this fine looking ship? How it flies, does it need any mods, etc? Believe it or not, I have never built a "modern" looking ship!

At 1/2 the price (according to Sam's Stuff & Hobbies), I can buy 2 of the Twister kits, so I would have a reserve airplane. I have heard of the Francherized Twister to make it perform better and have the article and plans on the computer for doing this. Is it worth the time and trouble to do it? I guess that question is a little silly.....if Ted Fancher says it is, I guess it is! LOL

Thanks all.

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:43:09 AM »

Hey, Glenn - How's it goin'? As you observed, each of the recommended kits has something to offer. Here's my take. The Vector will be the best-performing plane. It'll also require more work, although not much more effort than an Oriental kit.

The Twister (Fancherized, or not) will be a quick-build plane and a very good Intermediate ship. It'll be inexpensive to build and fly. Won't perform as well as a good Vector (but, then, few will).

I would rank the ARF Oriental last of the three for only one reason. I'm so darn tired of saying (or thinking), "Rats! Why the @#$% didn't they spend 25¢ more on this widget, and do it right? Now I've gotta spend 50¢ for a good widget, an hours replacing the widget, and two more hours repairing the area where I replaced the widget"! This "widget" usually refers to replacing leadouts, replacing clevises with Rocket City Ball Links, a poor/weak bellcrank, or preventing the covering from stripping in flight!

But honestly, once fixed up, the ARF Oriental is a wonderful flier, and not every one of my examples of "widget" apply to this plane! I'd just get the Oriental kit and build the whole thing.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:52:07 AM »

In my opinion, your desire is for a move up airplane? the twister even fancherized is a good airplane and is fast to build. but the P-40 Brodak profile is a far better airplane! ok well assuming you put dihedral in the wing to keep the vertical CG correct. I did a post on adding dihedral on here I think its in the ARF section? it takes about an hour to do with an ARF wing and it DOES make a difference. I have had, all the mentioned planes, the Oriental, great airplane good in some turbulance, the Vector, good airplane but even fully trimmed I think my P-40 outflies it or is at the very least comparable and a lot easier to repair if for some reason that would be a concern. The twister is decent, and honest fying, but these others do fly some what better, assuming relativly the same care in construction and alignment is accomplished. The P-40 wing can carry some extra weight if you tend to the heavy side. my experiences yours may vary.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2009, 11:10:04 AM »

A Twister got me into middle advanced... This was when it was pressed into in-flight video service, It's now 8 years old and serving as a Saito 30/40 test bed. Still a great flying airplane. Extend the tail a couple inches and add 1/2 ribs to the front of the wing. Make it look like anything you want and a Brodak 40 should be great.

That said, I agree with Mark, the P-40 is a better airplane, my latest profile is based around the P-40 wing.. I moved the wing up to get the vertical CG in the ballpark but if you want to stay with the warbird look, Mark's method of adding dihedral is real easy.

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2009, 08:29:07 PM »

Well....lots of good info to digest. I can buy the Vector 40 from Sam's for $79.00 and thats pretty good, but I can buy the Twister for $47.00. What to do......oh yeah....I have the Brodack P-40 and have been flying it for the last few years. Unfortunately, when I built it, I forgot to put the dihedral in (I was suffering from my PTSD back then) and it doesn't turn outsides as well as insides....wonder why? LOL Anyway, I have decided to redo the fuselage and move the wing up to fix the problem.

Most of my ships to date have been profiles, so I kind of wanted to get a full fuse job and something a little more modern than what I normally fly. I have looked at the Legacy....beautiful airplane, but a little big. If I could find something like that, at a reasonable cost, I think it would do the trick. Any other suggestions or helpful discourse? It would be really appreciated.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:21:06 PM »

Glenn...Well, there is the Legacy 40...I have an 8.5 x 11 plan and Crist sells foam cores for it. I'm not real sure where the plans could be had, but I'll bet we could find out in about two shakes...maybe three. And I have a Vector 40 kit at a screamin' deal for you. I'm pretty sure it hasn't been opened. But I'm in favor of a Classic, so you could fly two classes in one contest, should you decide to accept that assignment. In fact, the "Original Nobler" can be a 3-fer, and the B.40 would be a great match. I've got one of those you can have for a screamin' deal, too. But only for you, Amigo, and one or the other, not both.

Steve

Brett Buck · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:31:21 PM »

Quote from: Gravitywell on February 20, 2009, 12:51:21 AM

Hi all. I have thinking of buying a kit that would maybe take me to the next level of flying. Now I am just a fun flier type and have no wish to get into competition, but would like to improve my flying. I have a Brodack P-40, but messed up the wing and didn't put the dihedral into it. I have discussed this with another member here and now know how to fix it....and I will. But I am thinking more along the lines of a real CLPA type aircraft, except I would like to keep it in the .40 to .46 size.

I would suggest the Vector 40 kit, or built from plans. In the size you are discussing, it's by far the best performer. The full fuselage will generally give much better engine runs than a profile and you don't need an exotic engine to make it perform well.

Brett

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2009, 11:17:59 PM »

Nobody has mentioned the ARF/ARC Brodak Cardinal or the Pathfinder. With an inexpensive LA46 and cheap APC prop you have a superb flyer (Cardinal is better with leading edge rounded and flaps trimmed about half an inch), for a total investment of maybe $150-175. Loads has been written on mods; check the archives. I have had both these as ARCs and they are excellent.

Don't forget the Vector is also available as an ARF/ARC, too. I have a kit-built Brodak Vector (superb kit, all laser cut) and an ARC Vector with LA46 and Magnum 36 respectively, both inexpensive and great engines. The kit and ARC planes fly almost the same, and very well. The Vector is the best flying of the planes listed and is docile and easy for an intermediate flyer to handle, and then compete with! Once you learn the pattern you will be looking for contests to enter, guarantee it!

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2009, 09:46:43 AM »

Well.....after reading everyone's great comments and suggestions, I think I am going with the Vector 40. Its the right size for me and I have the motor already. It has that "modern" look to it and that will take me out if my "comfort" zone. When thinking of a new model to build, my first instinct is to look at a Nobler, Oriental, etc. But that just keeps me in one place....time to stretch my wings a little! LOL Steve....let me know what you need for the Vector and I will get the money off to you ASAP.

Thanks everyone for all the great ideas and suggestions. If any of you have any suggestions for the Vector, let me know. I have a Brodack .40 and an OS La .46 that I can use in it....which is the best for this airframe? What prop/plug/etc to start with. Any mods to the airframe? Any help you guys can give will be happily taken.

Leester · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2009, 03:00:40 PM »

As far a building goes, I'd say go by the instruction book and you can't go wrong. If there are any modifications do them on the next one.

Martin Quartim · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:23:03 PM »

ohh there are so many good choices for 46 to 51 size engines

The Pathinder LE plans are available right now from John Miller, and I heard the kit will be available from RSM in the near future.

Pat Johnston sells a short kit of a smaller Impact for 40 46 engines.

John also sells the plans for you to convert a Brodak Pathfinder Profile into a full bodied, and that's what I am doing with an ARC Pathfinder.

RSM also sells the P-40K full bodied and the Derringer that can be flown with a modern 45 size engine.

Martin

Brett Buck · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:28:29 PM »

Quote from: Gravitywell on February 21, 2009, 09:46:43 AM

Thanks everyone for all the great ideas and suggestions. If any of you have any suggestions for the Vector, let me know. I have a Brodack .40 and an OS La .46 that I can use in it....which is the best for this airframe? What prop/plug/etc to start with. Any mods to the airframe? Any help you guys can give will be happily taken.

Either of those is entirely satisfactory for the Vector 40. It's quite a small airplane and I have seen them fly just fine with a Fox Large-case 40, which is probably no more powerful than a Fox 35. I have flown a Vector 40 with as much as a RO-Jett 61 (with remarkably well-controlled speed and outstanding performance even at around 54 oz). If you are interested in a different engine than those you have, the best alternative is probably the Aero-Tiger 36.

Brett

Martin Quartim · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2009, 06:05:03 PM »

sorry I missed your budget and most the kits I mention will cost more then $100,00.

martin

Steve Holt · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2009, 09:23:31 PM »

My Vector 40 has a Magnum .36 which I really like, but a Brodak 40 would also be a great powerplant. The OS LA 46 is quite a bit heavier, but fits the same mounts as the Brodak 40 and has quite a bit more power if your airplane turned out tail heavy.
Steve

Peter Ferguson · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:12:00 PM »

I'm currently flying a Vector 40 (kit built) with a B40. Thunder tiger 11 x4.5 prop. It has plenty of power and is not lacking in any maneuvers. I think mine is about 52 oz. Its a great kit and is a real bargain. I don't remember changing much in the kit. I think you made a good choice.

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:14:18 PM »

I can't thank you guys enough for all your help and suggestions.

As far as weight goes....is there a correlation between size of builders tummy, and weight of airplane built? If so I'm hooped! If not, I may be ok to use the Brodack .40

Again....thank you all. As I build, I will post pictures and be asking for more help......so stay tuned!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2009, 08:22:16 PM »

The Brodak is a great engine for the money. The trim on the plane is what dictates how hard it will pull. As someone pointed out to me. he thinks a stunt plane kept light and straight needs to fly between 55 to 65 mph to do a decent pattern. If to fast for you lengthen lines. Too slow shorten lines. There is a happy medium in there somewhere. Have fun, DOC Holliday

Neil Rogers · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:58:51 PM »

Glenn, if you go with the Vector 40 you will be very happy. It is an easy flying airplane and goes where you point it. My Vector really gives me confidence when I fly it and that resulted in quite an improvement in my flying last year.

Rob and I were both flying Vector 40 ARFs at last year's Prairie fire. I had an LA 46 in mine and Rob used a Brodak 40 in his. Paul has Rob's Vector and he now flies better than I've seen him fly with his other airplanes.

I would suggest either an ARC or regular kit. The plastic doesn't stay on the ARF all that well. The Great Hobbies website shows that they have a kit in stock.

Neil Rogers