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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Rusty on August 20, 2015, 05:21:04 PM
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The one that brings back memories of flying for the fun of the hobby, for me, it is a matador, clear dope with blue wing tips , Fox 36, and lots of nitro,
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Anyone that's flown by Larry Scarinzi.
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The Sneaker was a top contender. I've built many and they never disappoint.
MM
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Guillotine a flapped combat fun machine...Nemesis best allaroud later combat model...jim
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Trying to determine which one was "best" (as in performance) will be a very subjective issue, and one that there will never be a consensus concerning.
So, I'm not even going to ATTEMPT to go that direction.
Instead, let me ask you this: Which one is "best" for you?
Any memories associated with one or more? Any "wow... I want one of these!" from your younger years that you never did get? Did you see someone fly a combat plane sometime in the past and thought that "one of these days" you'd like to build and fly one like it? Did you have youth years combat "hero"? (Early-on my combat "hero" was Riley Wooten, and later my old friend Bill James also.)
I suspect that which combat plane is "best" for you, may be something that only you'll be able to figure out.
Now, if you're asking which combat planes are "best" in terms of easy to scratch build, easy to fly, etc, well... I'm sure we can pitch some ideas your way with that in mind.
Good luck in your quest and whatever you do, have fun!
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Let me jump in here and mention to please look at my list in the vendors section.
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Consolidated--Bandit or Giant Killer
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The SPLINTER isnt to bad , by Bill Netzband . For a FAI ( .15 ) or 3.5cc like OS 20 19 & Enya 19 on 20 % nitro - SMAE Combat . One won the N.Z.
Nats around 1970 , with a OS 19 . The Wings 36 in. x 6 in. plus tips ! so its 42 span .
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/2/5/8/7/t3308411-12-thumb-IMG_1512.jpg?d=1276756974)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/06/!B7PuL3QCGk~$(KGrHqN,!jcEzKGbKumEBMzqSkrWyQ~~_35.JPG)
Theres a version with the moulded leading edge with 1/16 sheet T.E. , ribs , cab strips & front sheeting from way back too ( Ive got it on paper ).
peacemakerish tips . Anyone in the U.S. seen this version .
Feels like the lines have an elevator , and ot recomended for decking , though .
The Demons not a bad open ship , for clowning around with a O S 30 or the like ,
(http://www.bjm-home.com/BJMEnterprises/media/demon3.jpg)
The Early Bird ( not the Mini ) with a ETA 29 goes o.k. too . The wings 1 1/8 ' thick .
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA0NFgxNjAw/z/AQEAAOSwPcVVkadw/$_57.JPG)
a thickish wing one will be less prone to ' slide off ' into the deck .
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Let me jump in here and mention to please look at my list in the vendors section.
Why does one do that when your web site says you are closed????
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Can someone please define "Vintage" per it's usage here? I started flying combat in 1951 with Ringmasters. That led to modified Ringmasters and on to a flapped Profile called the (I can't remember the name). With a light case Johnson they flew fast and very well. They were very popular around the Kansas City area! They used a molded leading edge as early as 1957. A guy named Joe Ellsworth probably built a hundred of them...I built about half that many! A few years later the Quicker came on the scene and that pretty much defined the basic planform for Combat for a long time, then the same group of people came up with a Quicker with a side mounted engine and a Stabilator for control. That defined the basic planform for a lot of years. Then the Foamies took over...and so on.
Where does Vintage start and stop in that scheme? Prior to 1960? Prior to 1970? Prior to 1980?
What engines are considered Vintage?
Randy Cuberly
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Gordan Delaney's Challenger combat ships are worthy contenders.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=16802.0
(http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16802.0;attach=61433;image)
(http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16802.0;attach=61431;image)
(http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16802.0;attach=61435;image)
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Pretty much anything designed by Riley Wooten.
Can't speak for what's "best", since I was never much of a Combat flyer, but while we all flew Voodoos, the most fun I ever had was with his Demon and a hot Fox. Great design, and ultra-easy build.
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A T-Square can withstand many crashes and still fly. You just have to replace the bolted in motor mounts each time. Mine had a McCoy redhead, not very fast but I was only 10 or so.
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Have you considered the Super Satan?
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SweetSweep
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SweetSweep
One of my all time favorites! and it goes back to true "Vintage Times". Originals had modified K&B Greenheads. I had several with Light case Johnson's around 1960 or so...flew great but difficult to build with a lot of pieces. A lot of time spent for a 30 second combat flight!!!
Walter kitted it several years ago I still have one of the kits and gave the other one to Jeff Hanauer!
Most of the vintage combat plans are available from Barry Baxter.
Randy Cuberly
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I had good luck with the Winder
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I'm building Jim Mears Raunchy. Can't decide if i will use Fox36X BB or Johnson CS. Will also build Sneeker and then maybe Quicker.
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Whatever one gives you the best memories
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For me it was Riley's Whatzit. I had a lot of fun and success with mine in the Memphis area. I realize his next designs were superior flyers and more competitive, but that old Whatzit design started me off in "true" combat. Probably should build one just to have fun with it. (I even put a Whatzit tail on a T Square once.)
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One of my all time favorites! and it goes back to true "Vintage Times". Originals had modified K&B Greenheads. I had several with Light case Johnson's around 1960 or so...flew great but difficult to build with a lot of pieces. A lot of time spent for a 30 second combat flight!!!
Walter kitted it several years ago I still have one of the kits and gave the other one to Jeff Hanauer!
Most of the vintage combat plans are available from Barry Baxter.
Randy Cuberly
Hi Randy:
Yeah, the Sweet Sweep could be a bear to build in mass quantities (apologies to Jane and Dan...) the "old" way, but it's a snap to build in the Lost-Foam system. I'm building one now for the GSCB Vintage Combat gathering in September at the GSCB field in Lincoln Park, New Jersey.
Attached are a few photos that I've also posted on the Combat forum here.
Later - Bob Hunt
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I built a lot of Winders as a kid. A lot.
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Hi Randy:
Yeah, the Sweet Sweep could be a bear to build in mass quantities (apologies to Jane and Dan...) the "old" way, but it's a snap to build in the Lost-Foam system. I'm building one now for the GSCB Vintage Combat gathering in September at the GSCB field in Lincoln Park, New Jersey.
Attached are a few photos that I've also posted on the Combat forum here.
Later - Bob Hunt
Like...Very nice. A Neat and clean build.
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Winder................
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I guess you would have to choose an era of time but my favorite will always be the Guillotine. However before that I flew Vampires which I liked for toughness. I always admired but never built the Sneaker- however I got two kits from Marvin Denny just before he passed and look forward to building them when I get the time. I have a couple Fox .35Xs for them. Another might be the Big Iron by Carl Berryman I think.
Dave
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Well the Big Iron helped me get my first place trophy and my opponents pit crew. Metal tank was good consistent run for 5+ minutes. But if like combat planes, go look at Barry Baxter's site and listing of plans. Had room I would have one of each built. Did I say the Giant Killer was one plane I disliked but it would hold its own once it got up to speed.
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Wow Bob,
The perfect way to build a Sweet Sweep. Where were you in 1959...I built about 8 of those things on a flat table and my lap...Not much fun. a couple of them didn't have any warps. Most of the ones I saw back then had thin aluminum tabs on the outboard wing to correct for warps. Hard to build one straight on your lap! LL~ LL~
Think I gotta have one of those Jigs. I have several Good K&B Greenheads to make some truly vintage! Gotta get out the grinder!
Careful...don't cut yourself on that venturi! LL~ LL~
This is beginning to sound like a lot of fun!
Randy Cuberly
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when combat started down here the hot ship ws ths Super Clown less flaps and shortend one rib on each side, and then the Half fast took over. then a couple of Renagades ,after that it was all Wooten stuff
Rusty, i am in
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I think this thread illustrates that in the old days, lots of people flew control line, but folks didn't travel much to contests. There were isolated pockets of combat activity, and it was kinda fun to invade them. The last I came across was Seattle in 1973. Seattle is a long way from anywhere else in the contiguous US, and folks here thought the Fox Feathers was the hot item.
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What do you guys think of this one?
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_files_04/4666/Super_Voodoo_39in_CL.pdf
I don't remember seeing this one. John Jo won Senior combat at the 1964 Nats with a non-Super Voodoo, beating Richard Stubblefield in the finals. We had fun there. Rusty Brown attempted to be a bad influence on John.
Single tail booms became fashionable about 1980 or so. I think they may not have worked as well with the structure of these old planes as two booms.
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Rusty....super voo doo ii they fly great and any engine works including a hopped up evo..i got 4 and they are my flying test stand for green head k&b,36xs, veco combat special and anything new....tough too .....ask me how i know....jim
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Another one...backwards fox 35x....jim
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Howard:
Richard Stubblefield was flying combat in 1964? Didn't know that.
Mono-booms:
The earliest I "THINK" I remember seeing mono-booms was Jerry Haupt's "Wedge" and Bernie Vernau's "Motivator II"... both of early 1970s vintage. At least, that's my story and I'm a' stickin' with it. LL~
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I don't remember seeing this one. John Jo won Senior combat at the 1964 Nats with a non-Super Voodoo, beating Richard Stubblefield in the finals. We had fun there. Rusty Brown attempted to be a bad influence on John.
Single tail booms became fashionable about 1980 or so. I think they may not have worked as well with the structure of these old planes as two booms.
Howard, I wrote you a long reply but somehow it did not go through.. The year I was ED in Lake Charles Phil (JCT) won open. John Jo beat Brasher (sp) with the SV when no one gave him a chance (and it was no fluke)........Thought sure you would remember that.
In 75 I took new kit prototype to LC. It was single boom, foam wing of 395 sq. in. covered with 00 silkspan.. Probably not first single boom, but know they were around by then....
RW
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I flew against Richard Stubblefield in 1959 or 60 at an Austin TX contest. SweetSweeps.
Richard and his brothers destroyed 8 SweetSweeps one weekend at a contest in the early 60's. His dad wasn't happy.
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Howard:
Richard Stubblefield was flying combat in 1964? Didn't know that.
Mono-booms:
The earliest I "THINK" I remember seeing mono-booms was Jerry Haupt's "Wedge" and Bernie Vernau's "Motivator II"... both of early 1970s vintage. At least, that's my story and I'm a' stickin' with it. LL~
I remember him as a 12 year old junior well before that................BTW his dad built most of the planes, and what a great guy, loved to spend time with him...
RW
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(http://www.aeromodelling.gr/album/albums/userpics/Models-Tatoi%2074%20004.jpg)
Βρήκα τα σχέδια του Liquidator και του Splinter (το κόκκινο αριστερα). Στείλε μου π.μ. με την ταχυδρομική σου διεύθυνση να σου τα στείλω
;D http://www.aeromodelling.gr/ForumS/index.php?topic=9516.0;all
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I remember him as a 12 year old junior well before that................BTW his dad built most of the planes, and what a great guy, loved to spend time with him...
RW
Wow... there is so much combat history/experiences at this site it is mind blowing.
Keep it comin' guys!
Riley: Sure wish you could slip away to NJ next month and attend the Garden State Circle Burners "Vintage Combat Festival"!
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I have a Voodoo from the 70s and want to build another, different vintage combat plane.
Which one is the best?
Thanks
I can hardly wait to see all the responses on this one, Rusty. Here's the question for you: What do YOU want/expect in a combat model?
I'm reminded of the old story about the US Air Force testing the first MiG-15 turned over to them by a North Korean defector ... Chuck Yeager flew it in several simulated dogfights against another USAF pilot flying an F-86 Sabre. When the other pilot complained "of course Yeager is winning these dogfights, he's flying the MiG", they switched planes. And Yeager continued "winning".
Back in the mid to late '50s, Bill Netzeband wrote that one of his designs was "the ultimate combat ship". Much as I had a lot of respect for Bill, I named my next design the "Nadir" (meaning "low point"). Personally, I'm inclined to believe if there ever is an ultimate combat design, we might as well quit trying to improve them and all fly the same thing.
My Nadir - at about 500 square inches and 18 ounces with a combat .35 - flew well enough to win a major AAA meet in our area in 1959. Fourteen or 15 years later, I was competing with "my style" of airplane - small, very fast, and absolutely stall-proof (in other words, big turns). I cleaned up my engines every spring, and competed pretty seriously. But that spring I was also coaching a wrestling club with national tournaments running into June, and hadn't had time to complete cleaning the old engines and breaking in new ones.
So I pulled out an old Nadir, mounted a new engine with a relatively small prop, ran it almost 4-cycling, and took 1st at that same AAA contest site - by scoring a kill in every round. It's how you use what you have.
Now that I've written a book, here's a short answer: If "vintage" includes the early '60s, a Sneeker is hard to beat. Most flyers will probably choose a pacifier or pen bladder; I'll take a 4 ounce metal tank every time, because I want completely predictable engine runs, and to be in the air the full 5 minutes if necessary. I'll cover it with silk and lots of clear dope - or Super Coverite - because I expect it to last.
And ... well, you can clearly see I'm detailing what I (Me, Dennis) want in a combat ship. What do YOU want, and how do YOU intend to fly it?
Dennis
:) :) :)
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I remember him as a 12 year old junior well before that................BTW his dad built most of the planes, and what a great guy, loved to spend time with him...
RW
Yup. And Jim Mears, in his published "Raunchy" design/article, stated that planes were given to Stubblefield for the Nats at which he won Senior Combat flying that design.
Sadly, a direct violation of the rules of the day - when Combat too included the BOM.
So much for "the good old days" ...
Dennis
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Rusty, I gotta urge you to try the Sneeker. I believe the tapered wing results in much better handling on a very windy day.
Riley's Demon has pretty much the same wing area and is quick to build (with a "diamond" airfoil), but 'll take a tapered wing for any windy day.
I could be wrong - and often am - but you don't see many competitive stunt designs with "barn door" (rectangular) wing planforms, right?
Dennis
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And Jim Mears, in his published "Raunchy" design/article, stated that planes were given to Stubblefield for the Nats at which he won Senior Combat flying that design.
I thought that was Sherwood Buckstaff in 1962.
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A plane not mentioned much is the Twister & Super Twister. Twin boom elliptical wing. It was small but it was my choice for a long time. In high wind it seemed better than my straight wing models.
Yes we did really use the large Reactor's in combat back in the 1950's. The plane under my left arm is a Reactor. I do not remember the other combat model.
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my first combat ship was a Daddy built Circus King K&B green head 35 1954, i have a replica that i fly now
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I thought that was Sherwood Buckstaff in 1962.
Howard, you are right, Buckstaff spent the summer of 62 in Lubbock and went to the Nats with us. Carl and I pitted for him.... As I remember he built his own planes while there.
RW
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I thought that was Sherwood Buckstaff in 1962.
Howard and Riley, my apologies - you are right in that Buckstaff was named.
It doesn't change that the integrity of the event at the Nats level meant little. I exchanged letters with John Worth, then Executive Director of the AMA, about this and similar situations at the Nats - including the farce that protests in Combat were at the Nats level. The long story short is that AMA Headquarters had little interest in the integrity of the National Championships in the hobby/sport it supposedly "governs".
Dennis
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Howard and Riley, my apologies - you are right in that Buckstaff was named.
It doesn't change that the integrity of the event at the Nats level meant little. I exchanged letters with John Worth, then Executive Director of the AMA, about this and similar situations at the Nats - including the farce that protests in Combat were at the Nats level. The long story short is that AMA Headquarters had little interest in the integrity of the National Championships in the hobby/sport it supposedly "governs".
Dennis
John Worth told me in person many moons ago that he would not even have a National Championships if he thought AMA could survive without it...!!
I don't see how you can think the integrity of combat was any different that other events at the Nats.. Actually, I thought the Nats overall were better run than most local and region contest...................
RW
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John Worth told me in person many moons ago that he would not even have a National Championships if he thought AMA could survive without it...!!
I don't see how you can think the integrity of combat was any different that other events at the Nats.. Actually, I thought the Nats overall were better run than most local and region contest...................
RW
Riley, I've often told people the reason I learned to fly was to fly combat. I had a passion for it - and, no offense, wasn't much concerned about the integrity of other events at the Nats. I've written many times, in fact, that stunt was something of a joke in my opinion, at least with regard to the lower half of the "top 20".
Case in point: At a Glenview Nats in the '70s, Jack Sheeks put up a flight with his "Playboy" or something similar and was gathering things up afterwards when he was informed he'd placed in the top 20 (I believe 20th, and the records are probably still available). His reaction was to state loudly enough for several of us to hear "It had to be name recognition, because it certainly wasn't my flying".
And he was dead right. I've been a CD for many major contests, judged stunt often, and have flown the event for fun a couple of times and finished fairly well in Advanced. The flights he put up that year were probably some of the worst I've seen by anyone who could complete the pattern.
What really hurt that year was a friend and fellow club member, Pete Simonson, had worked very hard and put up some great flights, only to end up 21st or 22nd.
Over the years, I've had a couple of younger - well, protégés if you will - that flew pretty darned well. I would love to have provided them - especially Ted Berman - with planes for the Nats.
But is "winning" at all costs really winning?
Dennis
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Riley, I've often told people the reason I learned to fly was to fly combat. I had a passion for it - and, no offense, wasn't much concerned about the integrity of other events at the Nats. I've written many times, in fact, that stunt was something of a joke in my opinion, at least with regard to the lower half of the "top 20".
Case in point: At a Glenview Nats in the '70s, Jack Sheeks put up a flight with his "Playboy" or something similar and was gathering things up afterwards when he was informed he'd placed in the top 20 (I believe 20th, and the records are probably still available). His reaction was to state loudly enough for several of us to hear "It had to be name recognition, because it certainly wasn't my flying".
And he was dead right. I've been a CD for many major contests, judged stunt often, and have flown the event for fun a couple of times and finished fairly well in Advanced. The flights he put up that year were probably some of the worst I've seen by anyone who could complete the pattern.
What really hurt that year was a friend and fellow club member, Pete Simonson, had worked very hard and put up some great flights, only to end up 21st or 22nd.
Over the years, I've had a couple of younger - well, protégés if you will - that flew pretty darned well. I would love to have provided them - especially Ted Berman - with planes for the Nats.
But is "winning" at all costs really winning?
Dennis
I agree with what you say and it was one of the reasons I quit flying stunt at Nats after 58 and 59 (I did wind up in the top 6 ea. time) 58 is a story in itself.... In combat there was no question, usually (cut it all off-no questions).
You still do not address your comment about combat integrity!!!!! I know our group was always above board (can't say same for others)... If anyone cannot win honestly they should not be there..............
RW
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Rusty:
Sorry for getting off topic but had to answer some post. I think vintage designs should be before 1970. The advent of super glue and plastic film about that time changed everything.. On the other hand, if it turns you on, build it and have fun. That is the name of the game is it not.??????
RW
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Do I remember correctly? Did a Flite Streak finish high at the NATs sometime around the early 60s? That would be in fast combat.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Super Satin painted and almost ready to fly....super twister on the jig..next...jim ;D
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Cool paint.
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Thanks Howard..the devil made me do it ! ;D jim
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Hi Jim,
I built 3 super twisters,But on the third one I added one more main rib bay to each side, which made the wing 43 inches. It was 2 mph faster than the small one. Turn much better. Thought you might want to try that on your next build. Just thought you would like to know it was clock at 100 and 11 mpr.
Gordy
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Thanks Gordy for the heads up on the super twister I'll do that on one..got the last kit Marvin Denny sold before his passing and gonna build one as is..very interested in building your challenger also if you got plans or templates thanks jim
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I built a lot of Veco "Big Iron" based designs, a couple of Super Swoops, some originals ("Mashers" and "Molesters") and one sole RW kit Sneaker. I liked the Sneaker for flying solo, but not so much for combat. Bruce Tunberg built a Bill Netzeband "Splinter"
with a G.20 .15, and he let me fly it once. It flew extremely well, despite being a .15. There was a .35 sized design that I'd probably have built, if I hadn't gone over to flying speed. I think it was called a "Toothpick"? Very similar, but bigger.
I do think the triple boom with a high A/R stabilator was a good idea, and the Super Swoop would have my vote, if you want an authentic old combat design. Too bad they were such a crappy kit. Much faster than you'd expect, a stock one was my first ever combat model. As an alternate, I'd try a Sneaker with 2"-4" longer wing, reversed tips and longer tailbooms. ;D Steve
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Steve flew his combat in Seattle before 1973, kinda like one of those remote Amazon jungle villages where they've never seen iPhones.
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Sneeker................
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"As an alternate, I'd try a Sneaker with 2"-4" longer wing, reversed tips and longer tailbooms."
Which is certainly one's prerogative, that is, to modify the old designs as one sees fit. However, if the goal is to preserve and share "flying history", then it's no longer a Sneeker.
I modified my Combat Cat with a conventional nose pod (as opposed to using the kit's asymmetrical nose pod) and now regret it. Small thing for others, perhaps, but a lesson learned insofar as what I want to do with my hobby of vintage combat planes.
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Okay Guys, I decided on the Sneeker for my next combat model. I wrote to Mr. Baxter to get the ball rolling.
Mr. Wooten, how much would you charge me to sign the plans and send back? I have a couple of plans signed by the designer already. Will pass on to my son, when I go to the flying field in the sky with golf course grass, cool weather, slightly over cast, low humidity and home made lemonade.
Rusty, it would be an honor to sign the plans for you!!! It would be nice if you enclosed stamps for return postage..
NOTE: The prototype had 36" spars which were reduced to 30" in kit to save cost on wood and boxes, plus it made a tougher plane.. Also, if you happen to cover in plastic film cover the leading edge back to spars with silkspan, etc., grain span wise to help hold the airfoil. BTW, everyone just calls me Riley.......
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Sneeker................
Jim, that doesn't look like a true Sneeker ... Looks to be constant cord ribs with tapered trailing edge added, or am I wrong??
RW
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Hey,
Anyone know when the ST G21 .35 was first made?
Riley? First one I had was about 1969 (I think) but I believe they were around sometime before that.
Randy Cuberly
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When the G23-35 came to be will be an interesting discussion.
That question was a significant uncertainty at Doc Passen's Old Time Combat event back in the early 1990s, which had a 1961 airplane/engine cut-off date. I was of the opinion that a full-blown G21-35 was nowhere near the horizon in 1961, but the decision was made to let the one that showed up play with the other older engines. Of course, there was a decided speed advantage for the G21-35 flyer in comparison to the other competitors that were using genuine 1961 type engines.
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Hey,
Anyone know when the ST G21 .35 was first made?
Riley? First one I had was about 1969 (I think) but I believe they were around sometime before that.
Randy Cuberly
Never ran G21 .35 but think it was around 62, 63... Johnsons were king from about 58 to 64 then G21's became the favorite. I think there was a little overlap in there but not sure. Mears had one of the first I knew about and I think it was before 64.... After Hi sold out and Johnson quality went to pot I switched to Foxes.................RW
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Riley:
Curious: Why did you decide to switch to Foxes?
Because you did switch to Fox, as a kid I read/saw the pics, you won with 'em, so they HAD to be good, right? My first combat engine was a Fox 36X, and I've liked them ever since, even working for Duke on account of my like of them.
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Riley..the sneeker is a true sneeker from Texas..optical illusion in the picture I guess..flightline original...I have 3....jim
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I DID
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Riley:
Curious: Why did you decide to switch to Foxes?
Because you did switch to Fox, as a kid I read/saw the pics, you won with 'em, so they HAD to be good, right? My first combat engine was a Fox 36X, and I've liked them ever since, even working for Duke on account of my like of them.
Long story but I will hit high points... Bill James came to Lubbock and spent a few days, wanted to show me some really hot Foxes.. Turns out I had a 36X I had been playing with that was much better than his... Bill called Duke who insisted he bring me to Ft Smith for weekend and bring engine..... While there Duke offered to furnish me with engines if I would fly them.. I agreed on the condition he just send me parts to build several engines when needed.. That way I fitted them myself.. Duke didn't like it but I always told him in a joking way he made the best engine kits around. I always ran 25% nitro, settings were easy and I never broke one. Could have used more nitro, gone faster but never needed to......
RW
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Riley:
Thanks for sharing the story behind the scenes.
How amazing that your X was faster than Bill's!! Why, when I met Bill in 1970, according to Bill, his old X engines were world-beaters at the time and were the ultimate X engines! y1
Of course, even though I liked Bill tremendously, I took his stories with large doses of salt. But he WAS an excellent story teller! He told me many combat tales that I'm sure were quite suspect, but his telling of it was superb, and I liked him for who he was and not for who he wished he was.
I typically ran Missile Mist 'cause it was free. When Duke came out with 40-40 (40% nitro 40% methanol, 20% castor), I used that when the streamers were tied-on, or I was trying to impress the Super Tigre crowd that the X motor was still competitive (at the time). I do recall breaking a modified crank or two, but that was probably due to me being a bit over-zealous grinding/lightening more than the nitro.
Since Bill's been mentioned, I hope you don't mind a few questions about him?
* Did you ever see his "Switchblade" combat plane, and if so, do you feel it was basically a remake of the Sneeker?
* Do you have any pictures of Bill, you and Bill, etc?
For years, I have been putting together a scrap book of my combat/model plane memories and trying to find pictures of people of influence in my combat interest and such as that. I have a few of Bill, but as yet I still have not found the model magazine that had the Nats article where you beat Al Baker (he was flying an ST powered Eegad2) for the Nats win. The picture had you shaking Al's hand. Both of you holding your airplanes, Al his Eegad2 and you your Vampire with a 36X on the nose. Your win that year (and that picture) caused me to become a Fox 36X fan!
Here's an oldie of Bill with his Switchblade's stacked about in Larry Scarinzi's basement, circa 1964.
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Steve flew his combat in Seattle before 1973, kinda like one of those remote Amazon jungle villages where they've never seen iPhones.
Happened in Spokane in early 60's. Guys flying combat with Streaks, etc. Threw up a Johnson powered competition plane and they could not believe it..........
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Here are two very early 1950 combat models. I still have both.
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Andre,
I knew Bill quite well. He was a fun, very likeable guy and I enjoyed his company. You are right, his stories were what you might call a little stretched. I have no pics of he and I. My 36 in question was much better than his but all the Foxes I flew after that were the single BB cs. Can't answer about Switchblade but it did appear after he saw me flying Sneeker in Lubbock. He tried to promote a match between me and Buckstaff at one nats for $ in early 80's but that is a whole new story.. We must get together sometime and hash out all the stories..........
RW
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Need to get these stories down in print before they are forgotten. I still remember you putting your arm around my shoulders at my first NATS in 64 after you finally got a kill on me. I was so amazed at the people I met that year. I still kick myself for not keeping a ledger of my CL happenings.
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Riley, didn't we fly an exhibition match for the scouts at Reese?
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Riley, didn't we fly an exhibition match for the scouts at Reese?
To be honest Larry I don't remember it. It sure could have happened as I knew the base commander at that time quite well and was out there on projects often, including flying.............
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Sneeker................
Jim, I don't mean this in a bad way but if that Sneeker came from a Flite Line kit something is wrong... 1st - too many ribs, spaced too close together, all the same length and no false ribs. 2nd -The front of the trailing edge is straight, not tapered as in the kit. 3rd - The stabilator has more narrow cord with longer span (higher AR).. If it was supposed to be a Flite Line kit I am afraid it was a poor copy.. Do you know where you got it?
RW
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Steve flew his combat in Seattle before 1973, kinda like one of those remote Amazon jungle villages where they've never seen iPhones.
Actually, Steve flew his combat in '65 or earlier. My Sneaker with modified ST .35C went 116mph (without streamer) on fidy percent fuel and 9-8 Tornado nylon prop.
At the time, there were 7 or 8 controline or all-inclusive clubs with good CL participation. We had an association of MAC's in the Puget Sound area, with one or two over on the Olympic peninsula, and during the summers, we had 3-man teams from two clubs competing for points, as I recall. Not sure what happened at the end of the season with the points. I recall my club (Eastside Model Aero Club) competed against teams from a Burien club, a West Seattle club, and some others...Seattle Air Knockers, maybe also Seattle Skyraiders? I don't recall the Broadway Bod Busters fielding a team, but maybe.
I do recall "winning" a match against Henry Nelson in one of these team deals, when he couldn't get his Torp Greenhead/Voodoo started. Same contest, "The Sky was Crying" and I recall getting zapped several times by static buildup...not fun. That one was in West Seattle someplace. Anyway, Seattle was hardly the backwaters of combat, but I don't recall anybody going to the NATS, 'cause it was always too darned far away. :P Steve
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Hi again Riley!
I was a young and thoughtless youth when I met him. For several months (during the time he was helping me learn how to build and fly combat planes), I'm sure I imposed over and over again on his time, invaded his home, drank his beverages, etc, yet, I really don't recall him ever being testy and rude with me. He was single at the time, so hopefully I helped fill some time for him. Anyway, he moved to the Houston area during the early 1970s and I lost touch. However, during the early 80s, I traced him down through Betty Fox and gave him a call. It was great hearing from him. During that first phone chat, I apologized for my youthful thoughtlessness and sincerely thanked him for his willingness to help me in the hobby as well as being a friend to me back then and overlooking my youthful ignorance. Even by the early 1980s, he was starting to have back issues. Anyway, I sporadically stayed in touch with him over the next decade. I think my last time to call was early 1990s. An elderly sounding lady answered the phone so I asked to speak with Bill. There was a pause, and the lady politely asked "who is this?".
I quickly introduced myself and told her I was an old model airplane friend of Bill's.
She then informed me that she was Bill's mother, and that Bill had passed away about a year ago.
Of course, I expressed my condolences to her. I also spent a few minutes telling her how generous and patient her son was, and how he had befriended me and helped me so many years ago. She sounded sincere as she thanked me for telling her about Bill.
Hanging up the phone there was a profound sense of loss within me. It had been my hope to "someday" hook up with Bill again, buy him a great (and belated) dinner, and get caught up on old times. But it was not to be.
Anyway, Larry Scarinzi remembers Bill being impressed with your Sneeker and the Switchblade is a derivative of it, and according to Larry, the Switchblade used a "modified Sneeker airfoil". I saw the Switchblade blueprints at Bill's house a time or two, but by 1970, to me it was just one of "yesterdays" combat planes, and looked to be quite involved to build, so I wasn't interested in it for batch-building them for use as combat trainers. Of course, now I wish I would have made a copy of the plans: Would'a, should'a, could'a!!
So, it should come as no surprise that "one of these days" I'm gonna' try to build a "Switchblade" as a flying tribute to our old bud Bill.
"We must get together sometime and hash out all the stories..........RW"
I would love that. I can tell you some of the stories that Bill told me, and you can either validate them or edit them!! More importantly, though, I would love to hear some of the experiences you've lived and things you've done within model airplanes/combat, as well as life.
In my "bucket list" is a visit to Lubbock to see Bobby Mears' "Combat Museum". IF I get to do that, we will HAVE to get together and find a place to eat and shoot the bull and talk about how good you were and how good I was gonna' be!! LL~
Andre
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Andre:
All the time I was around him he was very upbeat and pleasant. Most people don't know that I worked for a short time for Duke in 1961. Tried to get him to produce what later was the Mk4 basically. I was around Bill a lot at that time so got to know him quite well. After Duke bought Berkley he hired me to run and manage it but as his usual practice tried to micro manage and everything had to be his idea, so I did not stay long......................
RW
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riley....the kit is flight line ...had no plans in the box, came from attic of local hobby shop along with a double demon also flightline...booms are stock from kit, stab is wrong as per my pictures from the other kit parts, spacing on booms is incorrect, i cut a new trailing edge straight on the front to replace the crap one in kit, ribs are all different lenght 6 with leadout cut outs 6 without, no half ribs in either kit.Not having the plans i spaced the ribs equally by the lenght of wing span.the picture on the kit was painted so i couldnt see through the covering to see the 1/2 ribs.The intent was good but the execution was a little off lol but you are the man...it actually flys exceptionally good even with its esthetic abnormalities.i'll try to get the plans before I build the next one. jim
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Another.....
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Duke? Micro-manage? You're saying it had to be HIS idea or it wouldn't work?
Surely you jest.
LL~
Those of us in supervision went to great lengths at times to get Duke to "come up with the idea himself" so we could go ahead and implement what we already knew we needed to do.
I got myself in trouble with him a few times for taking the bull by the horns and making a production decision and implementing it without first checking in with him. I knew I was in for it when he was popping his jaws before he spoke!!
I will say that I really do have very fond memories of working at Fox Mfg. those few years. However, I am very, very glad it was only for a short season in my life and I went on to be involved in other much more rewarding/satisfying endeavors. I was young then, it seemed that days took longer and months/years were much longer than they are now. Seemed I lived a lifetime in those few years I was at Fox.
Boy oh boy, we gotta' get together one of these days... better sooner than later.
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In continuum with the main topic of this thread:
Now that I have an understanding that the airplane the original designer/builder of said design built, compared to what was actually KITTED, brings up a pretty interesting topic for this vintage combat enthusiast, and illustrates that my efforts at preserving a model's history can now be two-fold (optional):
* Building a replica of the KITTED model.
* Building a replica of the ORIGINAL model as per notes/information from the original designer.
From my participation these few months here at Stunthanger, I've already learned:
* The prototype Voodoo's were different from the kitted Voodoo.
* The prototype Sneeker's were different than the kitted Sneeker.
I'm sure there's more!
IF I RAN THE WORLD:
Not only would there be well-attended (mandatory attendance!) Vintage Combat Festivals w/coordinated schedules all across the US at strategic locations, but there would also be a CONCOURS division for models that were built as faithfully as possible for the era it was designed. The model would be judged on how faithfully it reproduces the construction and design, the covering material, finish, paint scheme appropriate to era, etc, and if it is appropriately powered, and so forth. Putting on a demonstration flight would be optional but would not be judged.
Hm, that could be fun!
Wonder if I could sell a "Vintage Combat Festival" idea to the Gluedobbers?? (A central location, Tulsa, OK, great flying field w/amenities.)
Another thoughtful "hmmmmmm."
y1
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Not to change topics within a thread, but I have a Fox engine question since we have Fox engine experts here. No wait, it is my thread, so I can do it.
I have owned and worked on hundreds of engines. Different makes, versions, sizes, etc. It something I enjoy as much as building and flying.
All the engines, except Fox Combat Special, I have seen have a prop drive washer that either locks the crankshaft to the front bearing (like OS bearing engines) or uses the prop drive washer as a bearing surface with a shim. (like OS FP engines) These two methods keep the crankshaft in place.
What I noticed about the Fox Combat Special is that it had several dents in the back plate. Examination shows the crank is not locked in place by the prop drive washer and can move back and forth. The prop drive washer is the same size as the crank where it goes through the front bearing. I can't see how that is a good idea. That allows more friction by the crank rubbing on the back plate and allows the rod to experience more move and wear.
Can you help me understand this? Why did Duke make it like that?
Thanks
Could the dents be caused by crashes?
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Under normal tolerances/operation, the crank does not rub the back plate. In other words, the pull of the propeller (IF it is a TRACTOR propeller) pulls the crank to the front of the engine, thus the connecting rod goes with it. (For reasons mentioned below.)
Off the top of the head there would be a couple of factors that cause the connecting rod to rub the back plate:
* The most common: Use of an electric starter. (These weren't in universal use during the Fox "hay day" years.) Jamming an electric starter against the floating arrangement of a Fox crankshaft will likely press the rear of the connecting rod against the back plate.
* Mis-machined: There is a very, VERY, small offset (much less than 1 degree if I recall correctly) machined into the case to ever so slightly coerce the connecting rod to the FRONT of the crank pin during rotation. Thus, instead of the stroke being a perfect 90 degrees to the crank centerline, there would be, say, 90.050 degrees. IF the crankcase was inadvertently machined nearly a perfect 90 degrees to the crank, or IF it was negative (less than 90), THEN you will get con rod flutter (if a near perfect 90 degrees) or back pushing (if less than 90 degrees) and under those conditions it can leave slight rub marks on the back plate.
If the connecting rod is fluttering or back pushing, no real biggie.
IF it's being forced into the back plate by use of an electric starter, that can be a biggie. Worse case scenarios of this I've seen are actual metal shavings inside the case. The older Fox engines simply were not designed with concessions to being abused by an electric starter.
EDIT: Well DUH De!!! I didn't take CRASHING into account!!!
EDIT 2:
Wait a minute Rusty, you're saying the THRUST washer is the same diameter as the CRANK? Can you get a picture of that so I can better visualize it? Thanks.
EDIT 3: Can't help you on the Barry Baxter plans... don't know.
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Do I remember correctly? Did a Flite Streak finish high at the NATs sometime around the early 60s? That would be in fast combat.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Truthfully I don't really know the answer to that question but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. In 1959 and 60 there were a lot of good combat fliers using flite Streaks (built very light, with beefed up fuselages) and light case Johnsons running case pressure that did very well around the Midwest. Several of these guys were from KC Flying Eagles (same as me). In fact I actually won a good sized contest in Witchata KS in 1959 or 1960 about 50 entries in single elimination with just that combination against several hot shots flying much faster airplanes. Fortunately (for me I guess) Riley and most of the Texas crowd wasn't there. 2nd place was a side winder type airplane that looked very much like a Quicker except for a thicker airfoil and a slightly longer tail section. My 75 year old brain dosen't remember names any more. The flite Streak could fly at a reasonable speed and was much easier to fly well in a combat match. That was very important unless of course you were flying against one of the real Hot Shots like Riley, or Carpenter. Reliable runs and good starts were just as important then as they are now. Most matches were won on Air Time...Not so different than now.
Randy Cuberly
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Okay, back to the thread topic. Does anyone know if the Barry Baxter Sneeker plans are the same as Riley created?
I plan to use all items that are the same age. I have a Fox 35x, 36x needle and ball bearing, ST 35C and ST 35 G21, Johnson 35, KB Stallion 35.
I have silk, Fox metal bell crank, Perfect lead outs, perfect slotted 4-40 bolts. I have perfect cloth hinges. I have some 1960 pennies for wing weight.
Rusty,
I'm looking at a copy of Barry Baxter's Sneeker plans and they show a 34 and 5/8 inch span tip to tip. They do show two sets of tail booms; a short set called the old version (off the plans) and a longer set called the newer version.
They show a Johnson Combat Special and metal tank in the wing.
I assume from what Riley said earlier that's the kit version. No??
Randy Cuberly
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riley....the kit is flight line ...had no plans in the box, came from attic of local hobby shop along with a double demon also flightline...booms are stock from kit, stab is wrong as per my pictures from the other kit parts, spacing on booms is incorrect, i cut a new trailing edge straight on the front to replace the crap one in kit, ribs are all different lenght 6 with leadout cut outs 6 without, no half ribs in either kit.Not having the plans i spaced the ribs equally by the lenght of wing span.the picture on the kit was painted so i couldnt see through the covering to see the 1/2 ribs.The intent was good but the execution was a little off lol but you are the man...it actually flys exceptionally good even with its esthetic abnormalities.i'll try to get the plans before I build the next one. jim
Jim, It's no biggie and I am sure it flies just as good. The ribs are definitely Flite Line but notice there are only 6 for each side. 2 are covered with 1/16" planking, the other 4 are covered with covering only. In between are 1/2 or false ribs. Actually these were strip false ribs very much like I beam and should have been on the die cut sheets. Just keep them flying and have fun...........................
RW
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Rusty,
I'm looking at a copy of Barry Baxter's Sneeker plans and they show a 34 and 5/8 inch span tip to tip. They do show two sets of tail booms; a short set called the old version (off the plans) and a longer set called the newer version.
They show a Johnson Combat Special and metal tank in the wing.
I assume from what Riley said earlier that's the kit version. No??
Randy Cuberly
The kit spars, leading edge and trailing edge are 30".... That I am sure of but thought the tips were 3" for a total span of 36".. All tooling, art work and etc.
was lost in the fire in 07. When I get back home I will see if I have any plans in my collection.........
RW
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"All tooling, art work and etc. was lost in the fire in 07."
Oh how sickening to read. I guess that means many more of your historical artifacts were likewise lost?
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"All tooling, art work and etc. was lost in the fire in 07."
Oh how sickening to read. I guess that means many more of your historical artifacts were likewise lost?
YES, old kit collection, mag. collection from early 50's to 07, plus a few from boyhood of 40's and engine collection, both old and new..........
I had them all stored in a locked office at Lone Star Balsa.. That really hurt more than the rest of the equipment and inventory.
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Wow Riley...that is truly a loss. Like losing a chunk of your life!
Sorry my friend. Your memory is a very important part of the history of Combat. Have you considered writing it down...it would be treasured by most of the old combat guys I'm sure.
Bob Hunt is doing a similar thing with Stunt. I know it would not be an easy thing but there are probably guys that would be happy to help with some of the scribe work! I doubt that there is anyone else around that was there for as much of it as you!
Randy Cuberly
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Truthfully I don't really know the answer to that question but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. In 1959 and 60 there were a lot of good combat fliers using flite Streaks (built very light, with beefed up fuselages) and light case Johnsons running case pressure that did very well around the Midwest. Several of these guys were from KC Flying Eagles (same as me). In fact I actually won a good sized contest in Witchata KS in 1959 or 1960 about 50 entries in single elimination with just that combination against several hot shots flying much faster airplanes. Fortunately (for me I guess) Riley and most of the Texas crowd wasn't there. 2nd place was a side winder type airplane that looked very much like a Quicker except for a thicker airfoil and a slightly longer tail section. My 75 year old brain dosen't remember names any more. The flite Streak could fly at a reasonable speed and was much easier to fly well in a combat match. That was very important unless of course you were flying against one of the real Hot Shots like Riley, or Carpenter. Reliable runs and good starts were just as important then as they are now. Most matches were won on Air Time...Not so different than now.
Randy Cuberly
Names... would Jim Berry ring a bell out of Wichita?
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riley...the spars and le are 30 inches like you said..I just glued the tips together and they are 2 1/2 inches for 35 inch span..box says 35 also...loosing all your stuff is terrible and the loss of lonestar has been a blow to all of us as well.I've still got my 1962 voodoo short boom and johnson cs which I have on a Demon.Got 7 voodoos now also long and short boom..If you do find the plans to the sneeker would be real interested in a set..thanks jim H^^
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Not to change topics within a thread, but I have a Fox engine question since we have Fox engine experts here. No wait, it is my thread, so I can do it.
I have owned and worked on hundreds of engines. Different makes, versions, sizes, etc. It something I enjoy as much as building and flying.
All the engines, except Fox Combat Special, I have seen have a prop drive washer that either locks the crankshaft to the front bearing (like OS bearing engines) or uses the prop drive washer as a bearing surface with a shim. (like OS FP engines) These two methods keep the crankshaft in place.
What I noticed about the Fox Combat Special is that it had several dents in the back plate. Examination shows the crank is not locked in place by the prop drive washer and can move back and forth. The prop drive washer is the same size as the crank where it goes through the front bearing. I can't see how that is a good idea. That allows more friction by the crank rubbing on the back plate and allows the rod to experience more move and wear.
Can you help me understand this? Why did Duke make it like that?
Thanks
Andre commented on the concern for the crankshaft rubbing the rear cover ...
For what it's worth, Duke wrote that ball bearings had less starting friction than his needle bearings, but, once they're running, performance is virtually identical. I certainly got the same top end from both.
But the ball bearing engines really suffered if you planted the engine in the ground, then pulled it out and attempted to restart it after a quick flushing. Ball bearings really, really don't like dirt and/or sand!
Dennis
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riley...the spars and le are 30 inches like you said..I just glued the tips together and they are 2 1/2 inches for 35 inch span..box says 35 also...loosing all your stuff is terrible and the loss of lonestar has been a blow to all of us as well.I've still got my 1962 voodoo short boom and johnson cs which I have on a Demon.Got 7 voodoos now also long and short boom..If you do find the plans to the sneeker would be real interested in a set..thanks jim H^^
Thanks Jim!! I thought they were 3" but you have to be right. I'm sure they had to wind up that way to fit a certain wood size.... That is one of the problems all mfg. had in trying to produce a design in kit form and still make a profit ....
RW
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Names... would Jim Berry ring a bell out of Wichita?
Yes, Jim Berry does ring a bell but I'm afraid it's simply been too long to make a complete connection.
Just out of curiosity is that your father or brother? If so is he still around. I remember he was somewhat older than me...I would have been about 19 or 20 at the time, and I'm 75 now.
I was with the KC Flying Eagles Club then and usually traveled and flew with Wayne Merriwether and his brother Ron and their Father Byron Merriwether. Byron was kind of a "Dad" to all the younger guys in the KC Flying Eagles for a long time.
Unfortunately a lot of those times all seem to run together now!
The Wichihawks used to run some great contests with some terrific Custom Trophies...I still have a bunch of them...They are in fact about the only ones I've kept over the years
Randy Cuberly
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Yes, Jim Berry does ring a bell but I'm afraid it's simply been too long to make a complete connection.
Just out of curiosity is that your father or brother? If so is he still around. I remember he was somewhat older than me...I would have been about 19 or 20 at the time, and I'm 75 now.
I was with the KC Flying Eagles Club then and usually traveled and flew with Wayne Merriwether and his brother Ron and their Father Byron Merriwether. Byron was kind of a "Dad" to all the younger guys in the KC Flying Eagles for a long time.
Unfortunately a lot of those times all seem to run together now!
The Wichihawks used to run some great contests with some terrific Custom Trophies...I still have a bunch of them...They are in fact about the only ones I've kept over the years
Randy Cuberly
Jim was my Dad. He would've been leaning on 27 yrs old then. We lost him in '71. I don't know if he was doing the WW! profiles in Wichita. He might've been flying with Duane Life then.
I was born there in '57 so I have little memory from then, only anecdotes.
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Randy:
I didn't realize you were talking the "Mk" series of Fox combat engines and not the older ones that I'm most familiar with. The "Mk" series begin being developed a couple years after I was gone from Fox, so I haven't a clue what Duke's thinking was. Sorry.
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YES, old kit collection, mag. collection from early 50's to 07, plus a few from boyhood of 40's and engine collection, both old and new..........
I had them all stored in a locked office at Lone Star Balsa.. That really hurt more than the rest of the equipment and inventory.
Terrible, just terrible.
Hopefully you have lots of photographic memories at the house that are still safe and sound?
Please don't tell me your Nats winning Vampire/36X BB was lost in the fire... or worse... the original Voodoo??
What a heartbreaker such a devastating fire must have been! :'(
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I picked up a couple of Flightlines Sneeker kits a few years back. I still have them and I assume they still have the plans. I could copy them if you need them. I think they ate MK-2 long boom kits. Let me know.
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Hi Rusty:
Yes, I can see what you're talking about. Thanks for the pictures.
Again, though, such a crank/bearing approach won't be an issue unless:
* An electric starter is used.
* A pusher prop is used.
I suspect since you're talking "dents" in the back plate/rear cover, then the engine has taken some hard hits (crashes) on its nose. If it runs okay... then you're good to go?
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Terrible, just terrible.
Hopefully you have lots of photographic memories at the house that are still safe and sound?
Please don't tell me your Nats winning Vampire/36X BB was lost in the fire... or worse... the original Voodoo??
What a heartbreaker such a devastating fire must have been! :'(
Andre, I am not much of a photo nut especially back in my competition days. Don't have a single photo of any of my Texan stunt ships.. The original Voodoo
was used to do what combat planes are built for..... "To win"...... The original kit version was sent to Goldberg for art work, etc.. A second one was framed up and tack glued so they could take it apart to copy. One of the Nats winning Vampire's was sent to AMA museum...... I built 6 Vampire's in winter of 1965 and flew them in 66, 67 and 68 Nats as well as all other contest in that period. I am proud of the fact that I still had 5 flying undamaged except for one repaired wing tip when I quit competition in 68... All but 1 were given away or traded off.......
As a side note: The Voodoo is the Ringmaster of combat kits..... Goldberg sold over 50,000 per year the first few years after they were introduced.. Something that would be unheard of today....
RW
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Phil PM sent thanks jim #^
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Riley :
So Olathe was your last NATS.I ,too, was there in 68. Got some B&W shots of combat with my" Brownie" camera. Lousy photography, if I recall. My friend and I flew Senior and watched Open. Heat was unbearable. Never before or after have I ever drank more Coke. You know, the original good stuff in glass bottles... stuff I can't go near today. Barracks must've been upper 80s at night. But the Navy chow was great and very cheap.
Think I'll do a search around the homestead and see if I can find them.
You are definitely in at least one ; more likely two.
One, wiping off your ship and the other, during a match.
Frank
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The most fun I ever had with a Combat wing was with a 'mono-boom' mod. to a Voodoo kit, c.1976, in California. The mono-boom was a length of 3/4" balsa, faced with 1/32" ply on both sides.
Fascal covering, Fox Combat Special (forget which one), Missile Mist fuel, 9/7 prop. Didn't compete with it. Flew it solo, just for fun. Man, could that thing turn!
Back then, never imagined I'd ever meet Riley Wooten - but he & his lovely wife Marian later began attending the VSC, so it was my pleasure to finally say hello. Wonderful folks, both!
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This thread has been SOOOO much fun! Thanks Rusty for starting it!
Riley:
Darn on the photos. I too, didn't think to take lots of photos during some of the neat things that I experienced through life as a youngster/younger man. I was too busy having fun and recording memories.
Voodoo:
Yup, I figured the original Voodoo died a glorious death. ;D
Without a doubt, surely your Goldberg kitted Voodoo was one of the all-time best selling C/L kits in history.
Vampires:
Cool on the surviving Vampires. I have some neat stories about me and Vampires... but said stories would best be told another time.
Speaking of 6 Vampires flying for 3 seasons with 5 intact and undamaged...
The missing Vampire: Would that one have been the one that was zonkered by a flier named "Lipscomb" (I think) at the '67 Nats final round? Just read about that tonight as I was reading the '67 Nats C/L combat coverage in the November, 1967 issue of Model Airplane News I have during one of my "throne time" reading sessions. LL~
So glad you're still in good health and still a'kickin' Riley!!
Frank:
You gotta' find those photos, get'em scanned and share with us here!! PLEASE bring a scrap book of old combat memories/pictures to the Vintage Combat Festival so I can oogle and ooooo and ahhhhhh over them! Us combat crazies really need to figure out a way to archive this stuff in a central online location so the history can be preserved.
DO YOU REALIZE it is only about three weeks before The Black (our black GMC Terrain) will be loaded with combat planes and pointed toward NJ?????
It's gonna' be SO FUN! #^
In fact... IT WILL BE EPIC!! y1
Andre
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The most fun I ever had with a Combat wing was with a 'mono-boom' mod. to a Voodoo kit, c.1976, in California. The mono-boom was a length of 3/4" balsa, faced with 1/32" ply on both sides.
Fascal covering, Fox Combat Special (forget which one), Missile Mist fuel, 9/7 prop. Didn't compete with it. Flew it solo, just for fun. Man, could that thing turn!
Back then, never imagined I'd ever meet Riley Wooten - but he & his lovely wife Marian later began attending the VSC, so it was my pleasure to finally say hello. Wonderful folks, both!
Mike, such kind words - Marion and I thank you... I think your starting of VSC has been a boon to Control Line.... Made the first VSC in Whittier and only missed two since, I think, not sure, but not more than 3.... Thank you for starting it!!!
RW
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That "Lipscomb" in '67 was Bob Lipscomb of Georgetown, Texas. He's the guy who brings incredible planes to the VSC. A Novi with unbelievable cockpit detail and A Sweet Sweep, and an OTS "Bandit" on spark.
He won that year in Open Combat,
dg
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Andre, the missing Vampire was lost in a midair at 66 Nats against one of the Detroit gang. In 67 I flew same plane, engine, plug, prop entire meet... I don't remember what was said in MAN or who wrote it but the final with Bob (an old friend) still haunts me today. It was a weird ending, he thought I killed him, I thought I killed him but I wound up without a knot.......
RW
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Riley:
You mean journalism isn't perfect and error free??
Ah shucks... here's a word-for-word quote of the entire coverage of Open Combat at the 1967 Nationals as reported by Model Airplane News in their November 1967 issue:
(Note: The long paragraph with run-on sentences is straight from the article.)
"Open combat during the first two rounds was marked by an unnecessarily large number of "byes" due to one side or the other failing to get their engine started, by a large contingent of good fliers from Northern California (WAM country as opposed to AMA) and an excellent record of very few midair collisions. Soon the pairings worked themselves down to the very, very good few and the matches were excellent with hardly any midairs and well run by the ex-National Senior combat champ Dan Jones and his crew of Navy helpers. Bob Carpenter, who won open combat at the last California nationals, still flying his Swoop design, was beaten by McInytre who had not flown since the Philadelphia Nationals of two years ago! Texas' Lipscomb defeated USAF team member Whitney from Hawaii, who then went on to a match with McIntyre for third and fourth. McInytire having been dispatched in an exciting match with Texan Riley Wooten. Wooten, flying his foam-winged Vampire, which is available in kit form, looked faultless and his airplane was the sort of thing you expect to see on exhibition in a store window instead of the veteran of many combat matches. A crowd drew up to watch the all-Texas Wooten/Lipscomb match and were set for excitement when a very quick start put them both up in short order. A few moments later Wooten drew first blood with a cut and then unexpectedly there was a solid 'thunk' and Lipscomb "killed" Wooten, cutting the knot off. The crowd was stunned at the very short match but there it was. Wooten wound up his lines with a plane that looked very much similar to yours or mine - before the first flight. It's not that I object but he could have painted some dirt marks on it or some imaginary repairs out of pity for the rest of us - the foam wings sure looked good. Fox was his choice but the bulk of the fliers used the SuperTigre front rotor ball bearing combat engines. A reminder of a few Nationals back was the attractive Mexico City entry powered by the Johnson 35C, remember?"
End quote.
Well, as I can now see, I "ASSUMED" the mid-air took out airplanes, for it typically does. However, a more careful reading of the article indicates your Vampire was almost unscathed.
So, the above is the "cut and dried" version of contest coverage... I much prefer to hear it from the competitors themselves!
All fer now...
Andre
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Riley, I just won one of your kits on ebay. Vintage Riley Wooten's Double Voodoo Scale RC Model - Carl Goldberg Models
Item # 331636032088. $61.00!!!!! The only thing is that I didn't know it was a scale RC model.
It was sold by the Good Will store.
Well, it is a full scale Voodoo and we did RC a couple of them......Honesty in advertising.......LOL You ought to see one of them with K & B 4011, vertical rolls to almost out of sight and come back down at I am sure 200MPH.......Gets your heart pumping!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very hard to see and keep up with......
RW
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Riley:
I snapped these two shots of you at the 68 Olathe NATS. One has an arrow pointing to you that I made back then. If my memory serves me, the fellow in the safari hat was the combat event director.
That was a long time ago.
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While we're talking about the best vintage combat plane, I'll toss my design into the ring. My original Scrambler (M.A.N. January 1972) design here with me in front of my brand spanking new 1971 Chevy Nova SS ( V-8 4 speed) . Man, do I wish I had that car yet... Oh, God do I !
I have a 2015 version of my Scrambler that'll be flown at the Vintage Combat Festival on Sept. 20. L.S. Fox 36x BB.
The Scrambler is unique because is sparless. Gets it's strength from the "Warren Truss" rib arrangement( same principle engineers use on bridges) and we have never folded one.
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Riley, would you like to have the double Voodoo kit I won? I will give it to you, since your kits got burned up.
Rusty
Thanks Rusty for the kind offer, but I would rather see you keep it. My daughter found a double kit a couple of years ago and it is now in my collection..
Again, Thanks,
Riley
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While we're talking about the best vintage combat plane, I'll toss my design into the ring. My original Scrambler (M.A.N. January 1972) design here with me in front of my brand spanking new 1971 Chevy Nova SS ( V-8 4 speed) . Man, do I wish I had that car yet... Oh, God do I !
I have a 2015 version of my Scrambler that'll be flown at the Vintage Combat Festival on Sept. 20. L.S. Fox 36x BB.
The Scrambler is unique because is sparless. Gets it's strength from the "Warren Truss" rib arrangement( same principle engineers use on bridges) and we have never folded one.
Frank, Did your Chevy have a 396 in it? A guy I worked with had one of those, but I never got to ride in it.
Cheers, Jerry
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Frank, Did your Chevy have a 396 in it? A guy I worked with had one of those, but I never got to ride in it.
I had a roommate with one back in those days. I think it was a '69. He set out in it on New Year's Eve with a bottle of 151 proof rum. He returned safely with a size 32C bra in the back seat of the automobile. He had no recollection of whose it was or how it got there.
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Rusty:
You're a good man, Rusty, a good man.
Frank:
Who was that slim debonair guy holding that cool airplane in front of the Nova??? LL~
And you're right, the Scrambler is a very innovative construction design. I remember yours and Dan's article in MAN, and remember showing it to Duke. He was VERY impressed with your construction technique. They look to be a booger to cut/build... but once built, look like the cat's meow. I am very likely going to add a Scrambler to my "to do" list! Can't wait to see yours fly.
Lastly Frank, thank you very much for sharing your old Brownie photos. Priceless. I have duly saved all your pics to my "Friends and NetPics" subfolder inside my "Model Airplanes" folder.
(Edit) Howard:
You have some of the most OFF THE WALL stories to share!!! LL~
All:
This is what makes this hobby really great: Friends sharing experiences and the common ground we share together, in this case the love and appreciation of combat and its history. Also, one of the things I like best about my vintage combat plane hobby is when I mess with the engines, or the airplanes, or especially flying them... I'm magically transformed into a kid all over again! That part of it is priceless!!
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Those were the days. My Dad helped me by holding my planes. The little 1/2A combat planes taught us a lot about launching. Never stand behind the plane unless you want it for lunch. My Dad never flew or built model planes, but he supported me as much as he could. I always liked it when someone would ask him why he let me play with those. His response was, "I know where he is of an evening". Of course had home work also.
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Rusty:
Never had stitches... but had my share of nicks n' cuts. They feel great when the nitro/methanol hit it!
John:
Sounds exactly like my situation: Dad didn't do "hobbies", but he was tireless at launching my 1/2 A combat (and other) planes, and later the big combat planes... though he was REALLY uncomfortable around a screamin' Fox 36X! (IS there a sound to compare? Music to my ringing ears!)
SO many great memories!
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LOL! I think we have all paid our dues in this hobby!
Ringing ears: Courtesy of Fox Mfg. Literally ran thousands of engines over the short years I was there in the small confines of "run-in" rooms. First stint with Fox we used the old run-in rooms. The C/L building had three mounts and we ran the C/L engines three at a time. Two were constantly running at all times. What did we used for ear "protection"? Why, wadded up Kleenex, of course! Yup, wadded up Kleenex. I have had tinnitus (ringing ears caused by hearing nerve damage) ever since.
Missile Mist: Oh yeah, soaked the crotch many a time while holding a plane for a fellow flier and the bulb burst, or the fuel line slipped off... when squirting the fuel into a bladder tank... spills (or bladder bursts) happen FAST because of the pressure. I've also received face fulls of Missile Mist (and into the eyes, of course) when a pacifier would burst, etc. Burns like fire in the eyes. THESE memories may not go under the "Fun" column... but they ARE memories!
Chicken Stick: Never caught on to them. I bent needle valves with them. Gave up.
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Rusty:
Frank:
Who was that slim debonair guy holding that cool airplane in front of the Nova??? LL~
And you're right, the Scrambler is a very innovative construction design. I remember yours and Dan's article in MAN, and remember showing it to Duke. He was VERY impressed with your construction technique. They look to be a booger to cut/build... but once built, look like the cat's meow. I am very likely going to add a Scrambler to my "to do" list! Can't wait to see yours fly.
Lastly Frank, thank you very much for sharing your old Brownie photos. Priceless. I have duly saved all your pics to my "Friends and NetPics" subfolder inside my "Model Airplanes" folder.
(Edit) Howard:
You have some of the most OFF THE WALL stories to share!!! LL~
All:
This is what makes this hobby really great: Friends sharing experiences and the common ground we share together, in this case the love and appreciation of combat and its history. Also, one of the things I like best about my vintage combat plane hobby is when I mess with the engines, or the airplanes, or especially flying them... I'm magically transformed into a kid all over again! That part of it is priceless!!
Andre: Just wait to you see what father time has done to me. Can't straighten up today- too much grass cutting yesterday ! But, I can still line jerk and I also enjoy wiggling the R/C sticks .The Scrambler isn't all that tough to build- actually, easier than a straight and much easier than a tapered Satan. As you can see, they share some basic design elements of which L.S. gave blessing to. The Scrambler is a bit lighter than the Satan. The rib arrangement and l.e. sheeting / center sheeting are where all the strength lies.
Gerald:
Unfortunately, Chevy discontinued the 396 in the Nova after 1970. Mine was a 350. Slower, but handled much better. Late that year, GM went on a prolonged strike . The result was that early 1971 NovaSS had many "left over " parts , but they were all better quality and stouter : 12 bolt rear, h.d. Muncie 4 speed trannys, large diameter duals with resonators and full sized buckets( same as Chevelles, GTOs and 442s).
Sold it to buy a new 73 Vette- which I also wish I still had as that was the car I had when I dated the wife . To this day, I tell her she fell for the car, not me. Back then as well as today ,she learned that I park a mile away from everyone else and that's just the way it is.
Howard : Unfortunately, no bras to speak of 'cause for the most part, chicks went BRA-LESS !!!! in the 70s !!!!! VD~ ~^ #^ n~ :o ;D #^
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Chicken sticks, seen many props damaged as well as needle valves bent. If I had an engine I was not used to, the old heavy leather work glove came out of hiding. When trying to compete with diesel used just a couple of wraps of adhesive medical tape on the fingers that hit the prop. When ever I got a deep cut it was because I let the finger slide on the prop edge. Oh, I still get whacked once in a while. The last damage was the knuckle of the finger against the back of a prop while try to needle a K&B .35 Greenhead.
Now as far as hearing problems I owe that to the industrial plants I worked in. Also many year in the switching offices of good ole Southwestern Bell Telephone. Even the electronic digital offices are noisy with all the fans going in the equipment frame. Need to be in a small office like Tonganoxie KS during the night and listen to it go to sleep and then start waking up when it started getting day light. Don't forget the race cars with open exhaust. Still love the sound of a Harley.
Now that I'm way off base, I think the little Omega 1/2A combat and Sterling T-Square were my favorites for just plane flying. For combat, it was what ever plane I had just finished.
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Maybe not the best but what was your first combat plane? My first combat match was with a Fox 35 powered stock Ringmaster, less the landing gear...... One foot kill zone, 52-1/2' lines in west Texas because of the wind... Won 3 matches before being eliminated...." Man, THIS IS FUN"
Figured out real quick, I can't outfly these more experienced guys so I need better planes and equipment.... That started my search into aircraft design and ways to build better planes... If anyone is interested I can get into more history of early day (50,s-60's) combat from my view point. I am sure other parts of the country also have their history........
RW
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If anyone is interested I can get into more history of early day (50,s-60's) combat from my view point.
You bet we're interested.
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Quote: "If anyone is interested I can get into more history of early day (50,s-60's) combat from my view point. I am sure other parts of the country also have their history........
RW "
Hi Riley,
I, for one, would be interested. I was part of the Texas CL competition scene from around 1961 thru 1965. I only dabbled in Combat early on (wasn't very good) before I settled on CL Speed competition. I have great memories from traveling to contests and the Southwestern Championships every Labor Day weekend. You, and the Lubbock bunch, were a memorable part of that experience. Carl Berryman, that long, tall fellow from (was it Altus, OK?) as well.
Mel Gray
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Riley Wooten said:
If anyone is interested I can get into more history of early day (50,s-60's) combat from my view point.
Hmm... let me think about that "if anyone is interested" question...
Would I have a passing interest in hearing first hand history from one of the premier combat fliers of all time as he shares personal experiences from one of the most fast-moving developmental eras of C/L Combat?
Uhhh...
IS THE POPE CATHOLIC?
As far as I'm concerned, you can start a new thread dedicated to your history recollections, share your personal experiences with as much detail as you want... digress as you feel the urge... progress at your own rate and enjoy the trip... and I ASSURE you I will be copy/pasting everything you say into an memoir essay with your name on it on my own hard drive.
Bring it on Big Daddy!
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I enjoy this thread immensely, and yes I would love to read what Mr. Wooten remembers of the early days
I have been reluctant to comment before now as I (at age 60) seem to be younger and have no memories of 50/60s combat and some of these airplanes.
I only flew combat style airplanes (mostly for sport with local school yard chums) from 1968~1972. We flew Satans, VooDoos, and Mongees with Enya .35s or McCoys or Fox 35s (no true combat or high zoot engines) with local fuel and propellers
Tomorrow I plan on a 4.5 hour drive to Lubbock and the Mears place to watch the first day of his contest. Had not planned to go there this year, but he posted that Mr. Wooten would be there judging.
I would like to meet the combat guy I read about in so many magazine articles from my youth. May even drag out a set of VooDoo plans I got from Barry Baxter and ask Riley to sign them
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Yep, headed to Lubbock for combat contest this weekend....Seems enough guys would be interested in history of old combat to do it. Should I continue on this thread or start a new one? Open forum where I suspect more would see it or on Combat forum??
RW
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Hi Riley,
Yep! I'm interested too! I build your equalizer design waaaaaay back when I was young..... with a McCoy 35 and it was to fast for me then! y1
I can only imagine what they are like today.
I think a "New" thread on open forum would be very nice.
Tight lines, Jerry
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Carl berryman Super Twister from a chip a way kit that i got from Marvin Denny done and ready to cover...Big Iron on the jig next...
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Hey Jim, I hope you are going to bring some of that stuff up to NJ in 2 weeks! #^
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I planned on coming and hope too still if my wifes chemo and radiation allows time and dollars..unfortunatly cancer has came back after 3 yrs in remission...new journey starts this wednesday..hope to see everyone there...jimmy ;)
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Jim your family is in our prayers sir
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Here are a few photos of the nose of my electric Sweet Sweep. I've had to put this project on the back burner for a while, but I'm still hoping to get it done in time for the Vintage Combat Fun Fly at the GSCB field on the 20th.
The motor mount took a considerable amount of engineering to make it both strong and light. I will either carbon or glass the motor pod to the wing for added strength.
Later - Bob Hunt
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Here are a few more photos of the motor pod. n~
Note that the finished opening in the front allows for an annular air inlet around the spinner. The cooling air goes through the slotted G-10 mount and right into the cooling holes in the motor. I've used this type of cooling scheme on a couple of stunt ships and it works great!
Bob Hunt
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Jim:
Prayers and thoughts for your wife, you and your family. It would sure be a treat to meet you and see your fleet, but there are other things far more important than toy airplanes.
Bob:
Wow. What a craftsman you are! That is shaping up to be one of the cleanest looking combat planes I've ever seen! Even if you don't get your Sweet Sweep finished, are you going to attend so's us furiners can meet 'cha?
Andre
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Jim,
Best wishes to your wife.
Bob,
SPECTACULAR!!
Tom
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I once had the opportunity to sit and have a beer with Riley Wooten. He was in the room next to Larry Renger and myself at a past VSC. We talked about the Voodoo and during the conversation he told me that he thought the Sneaker was the better of the two designs. I have one of each hanging in my garage, I don't fly them but Lord do they bring back some great memories. Oh, and by the way, I did supply the beer and to chat with Riley Wooten would have been worth a whole case of beer. y1
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Boy what a sweet sweep Bob curious about the power system etc...
Fred,Andre,Tom thanks for the caring thoughts...much appreciated...long day for the wife tomorrow setting up for a new radiation therapy.
here's the Super Twister kit I got from Marvin ready to fly...jim
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Howard:
Richard Stubblefield was flying combat in 1964? Didn't know that.
Mono-booms:
The earliest I "THINK" I remember seeing mono-booms was Jerry Haupt's "Wedge" and Bernie Vernau's "Motivator II"... both of early 1970s vintage. At least, that's my story and I'm a' stickin' with it. LL~
This thread certainly brings back the memories. The Wedge did indeed have a mono boom designed by my father Jack. It was designed in the late 60's and flown at the nats from 68-71 along with many local contests. The two most memorable nats being the win in 1971 and my favorite was 1968 when my dad flew Riley. Riley's pit crew were pretty good and crafty as Riley was flying. We launched dad first and Riley's launcher faked launching the airplane, dad looped expecting to come up behind the airplane only to be disqualified for a maneuver before Riley was in the air. They went on to fly the match for a full 5 minutes of awesome combat as the notification of disqualification came after the match. At least this is how I remember it from almost 50 years ago.
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Jerry,
I did not remember who was flying but remember what happened. James Mears was the launcher .. He noticed as he was about to launch the other flyer was doing a loop (completely against rules) so he pointed up to the plane, pinched off bladder, and laid my plane down. Sorry I did not get to fly him... Rules said one complete level lap must be made after 2nd plane was airborne, with no maneuvers except to avoid collision before combat begins.......
RW
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This thread certainly brings back the memories. The Wedge did indeed have a mono boom designed by my father Jack. It was designed in the late 60's and flown at the nats from 68-71 along with many local contests. The two most memorable nats being the win in 1971 and my favorite was 1968 when my dad flew Riley. Riley's pit crew were pretty good and crafty as Riley was flying. We launched dad first and Riley's launcher faked launching the airplane, dad looped expecting to come up behind the airplane only to be disqualified for a maneuver before Riley was in the air. They went on to fly the match for a full 5 minutes of awesome combat as the notification of disqualification came after the match. At least this is how I remember it from almost 50 years ago.
I remember hearing that story from James Mears for years. He had so many stories that I was never sure if any of them were real! Having one confirmed is a bit scary.
Tom
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I remember hearing that story from James Mears for years. He had so many stories that I was never sure if any of them were real! Having one confirmed is a bit scary.
Tom
Tom, you didn't believe them? You gotta be kidding!!!!!!!! LOL
RW
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I knew 10% had to be true - some of that stuff you can't make up n~. Just wasn't sure what 10% it was. Guess I found it!
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I found my MACA newsletter from Sept. 1975, in which I did a piece about my mods that I did to the Wooten Sneeker. The kit was cheaper and an easy build. There are several pictures from the 75 Nats along with a picture of my Sneeker.
Also a lot of familiar faces.
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Speaking of Tom Fluker. Here are the combat winners pics from 1975. Look closely and there Tom is.
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I found my MACA newsletter from Sept. 1975, in which I did a piece about my mods that I did to the Wooten Sneeker. The kit was cheaper and an easy build. There are several pictures from the 75 Nats along with a picture of my Sneeker.
Also a lot of familiar faces.
Oh! Now I see why you guys fly combat! #24, 26 & 34. LL~ LL~ LL~
Jerry,
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Combat has pit tootsies... shame about stunt.
LL~
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The other day someone asked me about Bill James who worked for Fox. Although I knew Bill quite well I don't remember much about his combat history except that he won 3rd in open at 1963 Nats.. Can anyone fill me in?? I think he competed mostly in the Midwest and east......
RW
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Well, I can say this: The last time I was in Bill's home in Fort Smith, AR (that would be the late autumn of 1970), in his trophy room were shelves and shelves of trophies. I would be afraid to guess a number, but I feel comfortable saying there were dozens. I didn't read them all, merely browsed some of them, but I think I recall seeing several 1st place trophies among the hardware? Lots of seconds and thirds, et al.
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No doubt height played a factor here.
Just ask me how I know ;)
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No doubt height played a factor here.
Just ask me how I know ;)
In a lot of cases maybe so, but in Carls case, no..... He flew with his elbow down, hand rarely above his head. Never knew why, just assumed that was the way he learned to fly.. I have seen a lot of good short combat fliers....
RW
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Riley, my double Voodoo kit has the short booms. It is a Goldberg kit with blue in the label. Do you know about when this was made?
Thanks
As I remember the double kit came out in 62 or 63... The long boom version in 65 or 66, but don't hold me to that as I am not sure...
RW
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The instructions show a Johnson engine.
The main plan was always the same. The long boom mod had an additional 8-1/2 x 11 sheet showing the changes. It also showed moving the front leadout back 1/2" for more line tension. If you are flying fast I don't think you need it and I would not use it but it is an option...........
BTW - Would anybody be interested in authentic Voodoo kits produced like they were in the old days, except laser cut and with the option of either boom??
RW
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The main plan was always the same. The long boom mod had an additional 8-1/2 x 11 sheet showing the changes. It also showed moving the front leadout back 1/2" for more line tension. If you are flying fast I don't think you need it and I would not use it but it is an option...........
BTW - Would anybody be interested in authentic Voodoo kits produced like they were in the old days, except laser cut and with the option of either boom??
RW
YES I would... don't tease now! Sneeker also!
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I suppose the most popular was the voodoo. To me it's not really vintage so go back a click or two to the Quicker. It did most everything you needed to do.
Riley, I know the answer to why carl flew with his hands down at his sides....he reveled it to me in an interview http://flyinglines.org/combatlegends.berryman.html
He is one of a kind.
Ken
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Carl Berryman story:
My brother Rusty used to fly the Rat Racers, Dad would pit---meaning a ten-or-so-yr old was flying Rat with the likes of Berryman. Rusty told me of race with 5 or 6 up and big conflagration crash where he Rusty was the only plane up while guys were on the ground with a mess. He said Carl Berryman just grabbed by the waist and lifted him of the ground while he kept flying.
I wish I remembered seeing that.
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The main plan was always the same. The long boom mod had an additional 8-1/2 x 11 sheet showing the changes. It also showed moving the front leadout back 1/2" for more line tension. If you are flying fast I don't think you need it and I would not use it but it is an option...........
BTW - Would anybody be interested in authentic Voodoo kits produced like they were in the old days, except laser cut and with the option of either boom??
RW
Yes
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Riley asked " BTW - Would anybody be interested in authentic Voodoo kits produced like they were in the old days, except laser cut and with the option of either boom??"
Yes Sir!
I would definitely buy a few of the kits
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Greetings from Parsippany, NJ!
Riley:
Yes I will buy Voodoo kits from you. (Kits - plural.)
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Ditto jim ;D
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Count me in!!!
I'd take at least a couple...maybe more!
Randy Cuberly
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Riley,
I would be interested in a voodoo kit also
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Hey Riley, the old DOC Holliday might like a double kit if price is not too bad. Flew a Big Iron a couple of years ago with no problem. O course was only in the 90 mph range.
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A double kit? At your age you should probably fly them one at a time.
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Watch it kid, may have to come out of retirement. LL~ LL~ LL~
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While we are on the topic of vintage combat planes here is my Dad flying his Guillotine today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PReBYHL5GI
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A double kit? At your age you should probably fly them one at a time.
Uhhh wait a minute Howard...I'm older than he is and I can (though I don't regularly) still fly any combat plane!!!!
Creaky yes, slow NO! Betcha I can run faster and farther than you also!!! <= <= <= LL~ LL~ LL~
Randy Cuberly
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Randy, I don`t think you can keep up with the new Combat planes. Well maybe if you fly level. But if your ringing it out I don`t think you can. Old man. LL~ n1 HB~> Ha!
Gordy
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Riley, how about some Sneekers, please?
Isn't anyone aware that Walter Umland makes Sneeker kits?
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Maybe we should have a combat shootout of all of you guys over 70. Put your nitro where your mouth is so to speak. I will watch. Since Howard is still a kid he can judge. VD~
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Please post a link. I got to see that.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,40423.0.html
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The VooDoo was a great 1960's design.....built and flew a number of them over the years. I won't need any new kits however, as I have 6 complete Goldberg double VooDoo kits that I purchased from a closing hobby shop in 1987.....price $6.95 each. I actually purchased 8 kits, but only got around to building 4 VooDoos (2 kits worth) over the last 28 years. I do like the idea of Sneeker kits being available as I used up all four that I previously owned. D>K D>K
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Maybe we should have a combat shootout of all of you guys over 70. Put your nitro where your mouth is so to speak. I will watch. Since Howard is still a kid he can judge. VD~
Are you going to have an ambulance standing by??? LL~ LL~ LL~ %^@ ::)
UUUhhhhhh...By "Nitro" are you referring to the nitro pills for chest pains?
Randy Cuberly
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I gave a Voodoo kit to Andrew Hathaway and watched him fly it. I decided it was better to watch than get wrapped up in 60' of control line cable. Ouch!
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Eh? EH? What's that you say sonny?
Why you little whippersnapper... if someone will help me up outta' this recliner and hand me my walker... I'll show that little pip a thing or two!! LL~
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Has anybody heard anymore from Riley on the kits?
Doing a little research to see if it will be feasible as I will need to contract part of the process...... Also might do a couple of old designs that were never published or kitted...
RW
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Rusty,
That's quite a statement..LOL....... Leaving the mountains back to Texas tomorrow.. When I get settled I am going to start a thread titled "50's & 60's combat history" ! Think it might be interesting.
RW
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Rusty,
That's quite a statement..LOL....... Leaving the mountains back to Texas tomorrow.. When I get settled I am going to start a thread titled "50's & 60's combat history" ! Think it might be interesting.
RW
Terriffic Riley! That's what I've been waiting to read!
Thanks,
Randy Cuberly
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Can someone fix the title on this thread to its original name instead of Blank.
(what-is-the-best-vintage-combat-plane)
Thanks Al
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Can someone fix the title on this thread to its original name instead of Blank.
(what-is-the-best-vintage-combat-plane)
Thanks Al
I have asked before that Riley's thread about 50's and 60's Combat be pinned to the top of the Combat section to make it easy to find. I enjoyed reading it as he wrote it and need to revisit it in the near future. I just went looking for it and finally found it so here is a link:
https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/50's-60's-combat-history/150/
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee