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Author Topic: What if you could only use a .35 motor?  (Read 13531 times)

Offline Phil Bare

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2007, 07:27:09 AM »
Bill, so a pipe that is tuned for a narrow RPM range in effect, acts much like a constant speed prop does on a full sized aerobatic airplane???hmmmmmmm so the same thing could be acheived by using electric power or a 4 stroke or by just tuning our engines to run in a full power 2 cycle perhaps????? It would be interesting to know what the RPM change is on a Fox .35 in a Nobler set up in the traditional 4-2-4 break mode as it goes through the manuvers.....I am betting that it isn,t as much as we might think.........even though the change in sound might seem to indicate it.....

Online Trostle

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2007, 08:44:24 AM »
To add a *little* to Keith's comments, I still have the '52 Air Trails and the plans that were offered then, and it varied a touch from the one he flew at the '60 WCs.  That '60 WC plane was the one that Ambroid kitted, how accurately I don't know since I have never seen the kit.

The Fox 25 Don used was the '57 version that was built in the .19 case by using a .29 sleeve and piston to bump th e.19 up to .25.  I haven't weighed mine to compare , but it is a little bit lighter *I think* and is almost the equal to a "stock" Fox 35.  The '57 Fox 25 is a really nice "vintage" stunt engine with a 4-2 break to rival the best Fox 35s.

I remember a story told around that time that mentioned Don painting his Stuka in "non-German" red/white/blue, since it had not been that long since WW II.

Keith, a comment on my post to you above??

Bill <><

Bill,

I did not realize until I read the Aeromodeller article on Don Still's Stuka that his 1960 version flown at the World Championships was different than the 1950 original published in the 1952 Air Trails.

The Jan 1961 Aeromodeller article stated "At the moment the design is in the engineering stage for kitting by the Amnerican Ambroid Company ..."  The article also stated  "In fact, the design originated in 1950 and has changed only in detail and length of nose."

I checked the magazine plans shown in Air Trails and Aeromodeller:

Stuka nose length, wing LE to prop driver:

1952 Air Trails:  6 1/2 inches

1961 Aeromodeller:  8 3/16 inches

I did not check any other details regarding areas, and tail moment.  The airfoil appears to be the same.

So, if the Ambroid kit is baed on the 1960 version, it is not OTS legal.  That is probably not earth shaking news because I do not think there are very many Still Stuka models buillt from the Ambroid kit that have been flown in OTS.  And I do not believe there would be very many scratch built models from the Ambroid kit plans because I do not think the plans reallly showed full size drawings of the model.

You asked me to comment on your question regarding the Chizler and my Focke Wulf.

I feel that the two Chizlers that I had (particularly the second one - it was lighter) were the best airplanes that I have had.  They competed successfully against piped ships, even in the wind, though the piped ships have an advantage in the wind.

My next Classic ship will be my 68/70 Focke Wulf.  I have no excuse for not flying my own Classic design other than I had not thought about it before and I wanted to build the several Classic airplanes that I have had over the past several years.  That Focke Wulf did everything I wanted except it did not have the blinding corners that people in the Northeast were flying at that time.  I can remember that the Focke Wulf did not have the corners or the appearance of turning good corners like the Chizlers I hve flown.  That Focke Wulf had fairly small flaps and horizontal tail/elevators compared to current desingns.  However, I think a more satisfactory corner can be found in the new Focke Wulf with an adjustable flap/elevator ratio, adjustable leadouts, stiffer pushrods, taped hinge lines (at least on the elevators), and a more powerful engine using the Randy Smith Aero Tiger compared to the OS 35 S.  Hopefully, we will find out in a couple of months.

(I still plan on building another Chizler someday.  It flies too good not to have one.)

Thanks for asking.

Keith Trostle
« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 02:37:32 PM by Trostle »

Offline EddyR

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2007, 12:32:31 PM »
I pulled a lot of plans and did a lot of number crunching and came up with what I wanted.But Randy "Aero Products" made it easy for me. He sent me a beautiful set of plans for the TEMPEST-40. I am going to start the Tempest 40 tomorrow. I am a fast builder so the plane should be done in time for the ABC ST/35 that Brian is building. I was going to use Randy's Stunt Craft airfoil in what ever I built so this made it much easer. I build very fast so it should be done in a month if the weather will allow me to spray paint in about three weeks. Randy sent me quarter views of his SUV-40 and The Dreadnought-40 which are very similar to the Vector-40 and Tempest-40. I would recommend any of these for those of you using any of the popular 32-40 size motors.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2007, 01:29:53 PM »
Keith,
I am glad to hear that you will be building another Focke Wulf.

The updated controls with modern power will bring the airplane to life for you.

About 14 years ago  I had a "Jerseyan" with a Fox .35, used for a Fox .35 event. When I put a Big Art FP.40 in the same airplane I was amazed at the drastic improvement to an airplane that already flew well.

Now, with adjustable control ratios, I am sure you will be happy!. You gotta build it!
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Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2007, 09:38:44 PM »
How about the beautiful IMPALA with L&J Fox35? I hear from reliable sources someone is thinkin of an Impala kit in the near future?
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Offline W.D. Roland

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2007, 01:11:41 AM »
Hi Ed
when i decided to build a new stunt plane after discovering c/l was still alive but not knowing any thing about current kit stunters i picked a sig chipmonk as i had one in earlie 70s and it was easy to get off ebay--also already had a fox  an os and an st .35 stunt and knew one of these engines would work for it.

decided to go with the s.t. first and use a top flight power prop 10x6
every part of hardware ect is from 70s except the carbon fiber push rods.
came in at 46oz ready to fly.
balance dead on plan with out adding weight

only have 2 flights on it both with bad engine runs(modern fuel sucks or engine still not broke in?)
my impressions of this combo was verry smooth verry tight turns very slow flight speed and sharp positive corners and light but steady tension on lines with a walking speed landing.go where you point is on rails feeling at all times.
it seemed to fly slower /smoother and turn tighter and sharper than the 2 other stunters flying that day
light wind didnt seem to bother it
test flew a fast combat later that day--screwed me into the ground even in 8s ect.

keep in mind i competed in fast combat and rat in 60-70s and and only played with stunt planes. also have only logged about 20 c/l flights since then.

i may be clueless but i was verry impressed with the combo.

waiting for winter to go away so i can fly it more

good luck on what ever you decide!
                    David


David Roland
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2007, 07:58:25 AM »
How about the beautiful IMPALA with L&J Fox35? I hear from reliable sources someone is thinkin of an Impala kit in the near future?


LBS,,,

Since you are from Albany, NY, I think I know your source of info.

I used to practice with Ed Elasick, designer of the "Impala". I had one back then also. It is an airplane close to my heart. I will be getting in touch with Eddie for permission .. It is probably the only additional "Classic" on the agenda for Blue Sky Models. I can't give any projections on it  since I have alot on the plate at this time.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 12:46:46 PM by Tom Niebuhr »
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2007, 12:11:41 PM »

LBS,,, (I wish you would use your real name)

Since you are from Albany, NY, I think I know your source of info.

I used to practice with Ed Elasick, designer of the "Impala". I had one back then also. It is an airplane close to my heart. I will be getting in touch with Eddie for permission .. It is probably the only additional "Classic" on the agenda for Blue Sky Models. I can't give any projections on it at this time, since I have alot on the plate at this time.

Hi Tom,

lbs does use his real name............"Lyle Spiegel, AMA 19775"..........
(it's his "Signature" at the bottom of each of his posts)

**) **)

Love ya, guy!

Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

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Trying to get by

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2007, 12:44:09 PM »
Sorry Lyle
Thanks Bill
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Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2012, 07:27:18 PM »
Finally have the opportunity to build that Impala. Thanks Tom.
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Offline RandySmith

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2012, 09:50:07 PM »
So many great combos, thinking more a :
Stiletto 585 size and Aero Tiger 35,
 BlackBird AT35 , 
or SuperMaster Aero Tiger 35
 would be  really good , so good I would like to have them all
Keith's Chizer combo is a great one to, these would all be multi event planes

Randy

Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2012, 11:22:31 PM »
Gieseke Nobler - Stalker .61 :)

How I do love the aerotiger .36 !
If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

...
 I Yearn for a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2012, 01:33:39 AM »
For VSC this year I built a Geiseke Nobler with an Aerotiger 36.  It came out at 40 oz and has proven to be as good or better than any of the 35 size airplanes I've flown in the past.
The Aerotiger has proven to be dead reliable and gives the best stunt run of any smaller engine I've encountered.  The only mods given to the Nobler was to shorten the nose by 7/8 inch to allow a proper CG with the slightly heaver engine than the FOX 35 it was designed for.  This engine is head and sholders above any of the 35 to 40 size engines around save the exception of the PA40 ustra light which is actually a heavier more powerful engineThis airplane corners with the best and will fly an excellent pattern...difficult in my opinion to do better and it's very easy to build light.

Randy Cuberly

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Offline EddyR

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2012, 09:22:53 AM »
Wow     Old thread brought back to life by Lyle. Tom kept after me to finish the Falcon. It had sat so long in the shop I had to recover it. I had my Rustler 40 in it for maybe a dozen flights but it was tail heavy and I put in one of my very much modified ST/46 motors from 1980's.
 I took it out and test flew it three days before our Hunterville contest two weeks ago. I got four flights on it and the motor ran fine and the plane was easy to fly but seems to have a over tight turn. Controles are one to one. On first official flight in Classic the guy holding the plane forced the tail into the ground and so I eat the prop on take off. Next flight a lean run as it more than likely ate dirt on first flight. Passed on second as I didn't have time to clean and test run.This will be the plane for classic if the Bearcat doesn't work out.
  I did build Randy's small Tempest and flew it with a ST.35 for several months. It it truly a great design. I felt it could be improved so I installed the original ST/46 ABC engine that Brian Gardner did the piston and sleeve for. The Tempest is very similar to the Vector but I think it flys much better than the many ARF Vector's I have flown. Mine is heave  at 53 ounces but it flys like a SV-11. I believe a 40-44 ounce Tempest would be a killer with a good .35 in it.
Picture of the Tempest when first built at 48 ounces with ST/35 for power.
Picture of Falcon with Rustler 40 at 44 ounces.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2012, 11:31:04 AM »
Ed,
Glad to hear that you are finally flying the "Falcon". With a little more trimming you will like it. You might need a little nose weight, or perhaps the handle spacing could be reduced a little. I have found that an airplane is not totally trimmed until you are ready to retire it.

Lyle,
I have already started my "Impala". With yours and the 2 others being built in the Albany NY area, there will be four flying within a year. The "Impala" is a great flying Classic airplane, and this will be a fitting tribute to my good friend and old flying partner, Ed Elasick.

Since I have exclusive permission from Ed to make laser components or even a kit, hopefully the "Impala" will be seen more often.

All,
While this thread started on using or designing an airplane around .35s, I feel that all the newer .36 to .46 engines are really ideal. The LA .46 is an ideal low cost engine that is a winner right out of the box. Just get rid of the plastic back plate.

A new airplane design could take advantage of all that we have learned about engines, props, moments, areas, controls, airfoil shapes and more over the years since the Classics.

The airplanes are easy to fly, but the only draw back is the perception of the maneuvers when mixed with the larger airplanes. 
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Offline Bryan Higgins

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2012, 11:56:07 AM »
Hello Ed
I know your great with full sized warbirds like your last Bearcat. Very nice by the way , i sure enjoyed the build pics - thank you.

The Reno T-6 Racing Class would be a good bird to see built.  And a smaller .35 scale version would be a great size to start with
id think but im no expert. 

Bryan R higgins Jr.
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2012, 12:56:00 PM »
My favorite stunters are at least .46 cuin. and most are bigger.  For nostalgia, I prefer my Thunderbird with a very nice and smooth-running OS35S.

Floyd
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Offline EddyR

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2012, 02:25:35 PM »
Tom
I new Eddie quite well back in the late 50's or early 60's I have a set of hand drawn plans that were traced from Eddies Impala plans. If I remember correct his plans were a collection of many pieces of paper with different parts on them. Was the Impalla ever published?
 I met him at a contest at the hobby shop flying field in NJ. There was Eddie Elasick myself and another Ed who I can no longer remember his last name. I was the only Ed from the Binghamton NY area that flew contest  model aircraft in the 50's.
 How old is Eddie I believe I am older ~^
Also met the flyer who designed this great model.  y1This is his model at the KOI about eight years ago.
EddyR
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2012, 11:34:27 AM »
A surprisingly good flyer, this Tipsy Jr./ semi-scale goes well with an OS35 FP.  From my own plans.

Floyd
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: What if you could only use a .35 motor?
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2012, 12:43:29 PM »
Ed,

Ed Elasick is now 66. He has had a rough go the last 10 years.

The Impala was published in American Modeler, Sept/Oct 1963.

Ed and I practiced and went to many contests together. The attached clipping was taken of us at Marine Park, Brooklyn, NY
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