WHAT HAPPEN TO THE YOUNG ?

[Larry Wong]

I was looking at some of the diffrent sites and photo's of flying contest, and it seams to me that all the young kids are missing, and all we see at the flying fields are middle and old age still doing what at one time were the largest group of flyer's..            How do we get the young flyer's out of the house to fly and even more get them to design and build new design, (imagination) and fresh air.....    

[Peter Nevai]

How? well considering what has been developed by the marketing and advertising guru's over the past 30 years. How, is creating a multi billion marketing campaign, saturate TV, arrange motion picture tie-in's featuring the current hot stars of hollywood, and the music scene. Then license to the fast food chains etc.

And at that point you will still need parental involvement in assisting in construction and guideance.

Besides as you can see over 20 people have read this thread, and only one felt concerned enough about this fact that the young do not participate to even obligated to reply.

Perhaps that is just one of the answers as to when the kids no lomger participate.

[bob branch]

Lest anyone think this is a control line issue, its not. Every RC club I belong to (3) has the same discussion continuously. I've asked my son who started in CL about age 11. He no longer flies (31 year old) and I asked him why kids don't get involved. One simple answer that none of us RC or CL will like, "instant gratification". Takes too long to build, even an arf. Recent generations (not just one) have been brought up on instant gratification of computers. Much as none of us like it, that's the deal. Its not going to change. Every now and again a young person will show up to fly. But its rare and holding their attention is tough. They have to do it themselves and want to do it. None of us can push a rope.

Bob Branch

[Russell Shaffer]

The kids no longer go outside.  I live one block from an elementary school where we have been for more than 30 years.  In the winter the street behind my house was full of sleds on a snowy day.  In nice weather the kids were a constant stream back and forth to the school playground and the grass at the park, also just a block away.  This no longer happens, and the kids walking home from school tend to be large.  Many of the poor kids are HUGE.  OK, I'm not as slim and trim as in days gone by, but kids today are larger, less active physically, and as has been said, much more interested in instant gratification.  Model airplanes take a lot of work, they are noisy, you have to go OUTSIDE to fly them, and it is necessary to walk.  I have 5 grandchildren, ages from 2 weeks to 14 years, and the only one who shows any sign of doing anything at all that involves being outside is my 8 year old grand daughter.  She is a hunter and proud of it.  The rest have to be poked with a sharp stick to get them to leave the house for anything other than a trip to the store.  The 2 week old I have to reserve judgement on but her dad is a Navy pilot and also a hunter, so I have hope.  What I am trying to say in my long-winded diatribe is that ANY outside physical activity is not of interest to our young people.  The town that I am complaining about is in Eastern Oregon, about 40,000 population, and is considered very rural and redneck.  The cities are surely worse.  If you don't like to be outside for any reason, why in the world would you be interested in a model airplane?  The problem isn't with our hobby, it is an attitude thing.  My fingers are tired. 

[Paul Taylor]

I got one on the handle

[Russell Shaffer]

You're lucky, Paul.  I will be lucky to get one or maybe two to do anything that doesn't involve a computer.  He's a good looking boy, congratulations. 

[jordan miller]

     I believe all it takes is for the Hobby Shops to carry C/L stuff.  Myself being 19 started flying when i was in the 5th grade due to the local hobby shop that actually carried control line stuff but it recently had to close for personal reasons. After the Shop closed my cousin and myself continued to fly, however we lost two of my good friends because prices went way up after closure. Having to order parts and fuel, it just became to expensive for them. (They no longer fly) When the shop was open the owner had flying days every Sunday at the local field. About 10 to 15 of us would meet and fly from 4:00pm to sundown all summer long, and learn from the "old guys" that have been flying for years. Part of the problem is PRICE I myself being in college have a hard time trying to afford parts for my planes.
     R/C is too expensive C/L is cheaper just get them started in 1/2a airplanes, don't worry about them designing new planes, fly the old stuff they fly just fine. If you push new kids to fly they WILL run away I did that with my brother and he has no interest in flying anymore he used to love flying until I pushed him to try harder and fly more.
     Most of all what we need to do is go to a park and take a combat plane that anyone can fly with a little cox .049 on it and let anyone who wants to fly, FLY!!! You get people interested through giving out free stuff, free flights, I believe it can be done all we have to do is try, be patient, and not be stubborn and quick to judge.  It was the FREE flight that got me into it and got all my other friends into flying, I am about sure that it will get some kids interested. Oshkosh is another great place to get kids interested KID VENTURE at the control line flied, and I am willing to bet that a few of the kids that my Cousin and I flew with have started to fly.
     Also to comment on the kids always staying inside these days thats true. What needs to be done is tell the kids they can't play inside on nice days, thats what my parents did and i had to find something to do when everything else got boring I found flying.
I wish it would be easier to get people to fly, I mean the only competition I have at contest is usually only one other guy in the intermediate class with me. 
   ahh I feel better sorry if i have offended anyone I did not post for that reason

[Keith Spriggs]

I see merit in all of the reasons already given, however I think a good part of the reason is more basic. People and especially young people just do not find airplanes of any kind from full size to models, as interesting as they used to be. If you are 60 years old, airplanes were more of a novelty when you were 10 years old than they are to a 10 year old today. I am closer to 70 and I can remember the first jet airplane I ever saw. Probably fifty years from now computers and video games will no longer be a novelty or hold much interest for the kids then. If you are close to my age you can remember the stories on the radio. Not many of them today. How about when the first person in your neighborhood got a TV set complete with a snowy picture and an enormous outside antenna. TV is not much of a novelty today. There are of course exceptions. Here is a picture of a happy and proud boy and a very proud father.

[Bob Disharoon]

Ive given up on the kids, but, my wife who is 50 something, wants to get into c/l..do I get any pts. for that?!lol

[Steve Kientz]

  I gave my nephew a membership to our local club last year, he flew once(3 flights).This year we bought him a full membership(R/C & C/L) and told him I would build him a R/C plane,but he had to show some interest. Nothing as of yet.
  I also bought him and his grandfather(my father-in -law) a Deweybird 1/2A kit.The nephew worked about 5 minutes(sanding)and went on to something else.The good news is my father in law has almost finished it(1st plane @73yrs young)!!!

[LARRY RICE]

         If you want to see kids in the hobby look on my website under club info. As for cost we are starting a line of low cost models meant for kids with less money. Check out our new Pee Wee Pup at $12.00. For years no one has made planes for kid's . Kids like planes that look like real planes not profiles. We are trying to start a National Control Line Club that will promote and assist new fliers and it is a battle to get it started. COME ON AND CHECK OUT THE SITE (for you old timers just double click on this address) WWW.BLACKHAWKMODELS.COM
Larry

[catdaddy]

I got one on the handle

Wait until he gets his drivers licenses and discovers girls.

Good looking kid. Hope to meet you both at Brodak's.

[Bill Smith]

I almost always have a beater plane with me when I go out flying. If anyone looks interested I'll hand them a handle.
Sometimes its a 1/2a foamy with a cox other times I have an old mongoose.
If you want to get kids in don't start stunt its boring (for kids) to watch. do racing or cheap combat(1/2a).
Ask jordan how many little satans and combat pups he and his cousin built.
little satans make good racers!

[Bill Adair]

How do we get your kids interested in model airplanes?

Easy!

Load up every TV, VCR, Computer, Video game, Walkman, Ipod, Game boy, and every other mind numbing electronic device in your home, and take them to the second hand store! Use the money to buy a good set of Encyclopedias, and an assortment of creative tools for them to learn something worthwhile. Allow them free access to your model airplane magazines, and beginner "How to" model airplane books, several simple kits, and building supplies.

Rearrange their social schedule to include study time after school, and hour of play time, an hour of chores, and the rest to reading or personal creativity (model building allowed) at home. No friends over after the alloted play period, and no other unsupervised activities outside the home, other than library study, music lessons, and other worthwhile educational activities.

Weekends are for socializing on a reasonable schedule, and family activities and trips come first. Keep them busy every minute of the day, doing creative things, or developing their physical skills.

Now, with no TV or other distractions for yourself, spend time with your kids. Take them to the flying fields, and get them some stick time. Be prepared to assist them building and flying, as they will soon realize that it's better than staring at the wall, or being asked to do unscheduled chores around the house when they are not busy.

Be prepared to take you kids places on the weekends, because without the mall and video game parlors to waste their lives, they may want to do things with their parents and friends again!

Now, I know that isn't going to happen, even with my own granddaughters, but I'm thankful that my grandkids are being raised in a no nonsense manner. They are fully involved in Scouting, baseball, basketball, soccer, swimming, dancing, music, gymnastics, and the arts. They are taken to plays, operas, music recitals, circus shows, museums, zoos, and school activities, and allowed to attend those activities with the families who are raising their children similarly.

They may never get interested in model airplanes, but their interest will surely be in one or more of the creative activities they are allowed to enjoy with friends and family.

Wishful thinking 101: Parenting!

Bill

[jordan miller]

How do we get your kids interested in model airplanes?

Easy!

Load up every TV, VCR, Computer, Video game, Walkman, Ipod, Game boy, and every other mind numbing electronic device in your home, and take them to the second hand store! Use the money to buy a good set of Encyclopedias, and an assortment of creative tools for them to learn something worthwhile. Allow them free access to your model airplane magazines, and beginner "How to" model airplane books, several simple kits, and building supplies.

Rearrange their social schedule to include study time after school, and hour of play time, an hour of chores, and the rest to reading or personal creativity (model building allowed) at home. No friends over after the alloted play period, and no other unsupervised activities outside the home, other than library study, music lessons, and other worthwhile educational activities.

Weekends are for socializing on a reasonable schedule, and family activities and trips come first. Keep them busy every minute of the day, doing creative things, or developing their physical skills.

Now, with no TV or other distractions for yourself, spend time with your kids. Take them to the flying fields, and get them some stick time. Be prepared to assist them building and flying, as they will soon realize that it's better than staring at the wall, or being asked to do unscheduled chores around the house when they are not busy.

Be prepared to take you kids places on the weekends, because without the mall and video game parlors to waste their lives, they may want to do things with their parents and friends again!

Now, I know that isn't going to happen, even with my own granddaughters, but I'm thankful that my grandkids are being raised in a no nonsense manner. They are fully involved in Scouting, baseball, basketball, soccer, swimming, dancing, music, gymnastics, and the arts. They are taken to plays, operas, music recitals, circus shows, museums, zoos, and school activities, and allowed to attend those activities with the families who are raising their children similarly.

They may never get interested in model airplanes, but their interest will surely be in one or more of the creative activities they are allowed to enjoy with friends and family.

Wishful thinking 101: Parenting!

Bill

I agree 100% with your plan Bill thats how it was for me when I was still at home.

[bob branch]

Bill

I'd love to say your method would work. The problem is they will not be competative in the real world. The library is a useless out of date waste of time in the face of the information available on the internet and by computer. Encyclopedias are as outdated today as they were when I was a kid. Yea, I liked them but its cause they were easy. And when the kids prepared for the world in the way you described will have no idea on how to access information to do anything in todays world. Any kid who has to use resources of a library will have nothing but 20 to 30 year outdated information. Its too bad and many of us put computers at the basis of the problem, but... well, what are you doing here? Could you get this kind of information in the library form Model Airplane news or AMA magazine. No way. Is the same in every other part of our world.

I have a post doctoral education. My kids are extremely computer literate. My daughter has 2 undergrad degrees in pure science discaplines and two graduate degrees from a major research university (U of Michigan) in engineering. I was very cheesed off at the way they were teaching her during her first year at Michigan. It was not how I was taught.  The professors did not teach students the subject and then test them on what they were taught. This was how I was taught in high school, college, and grad school. They gave the students questions that could not be answered from the class lectures, or the text books. To be able to pass exams they had to be able to apply the solutions to the study questions and the knowledge gained from solving the problems. How can anyone learn like that? Turns out the way its done is they develope study groups of multiple students. They read the texts, listen to the lectures to get basics, and then you go out and do research in university libraries ... not just theirs but others at other universities, all done by computer, even your own U's libraries. They access info from any source they can find online or anywhere in the world. They do research to find the answers and in the process they learn how to solve problems rather than regurgitate answers. Its why grad from research universities that teach this way are so highly sought. But the key is to learn how to access all information from all places. Local libraries are no longer places for young people to learn. The info is just too old by the time it gets there and they don't teach students how to find all the info out there. For that, they need to be very computer literate. That is the problem I am affraid with your position. The world just doesn't work that way any more.

 I wish it did and was that simple. But thinking by taking kids back to the world we grew up in will produce kids as excited as we were by model aviation as kids just will not happen. Too many millions of people flying in 100% scale airplanes every day. Its no longer the mystery it was when we were kids.  Sad, but we grew up in a magical time. Even though I am a 100% scale pilot with multiengine instrument ratings and have flown just about every modern general aviation non jet aircraft... I still get a thrill just walking up to the cockpit window of any airplane, even a Cub or Ercoupe, and looking at the panel. Its still magical. Its not for a kid who grows up today. Its common place. Face it guys, we grew up at a special time of history to be thrilled by this and still thrilled by it all these years later.

Missing the world we grew up in as much as you,

Bob Branch

[steve pagano]

Hi All;

     In my opinion its all about how you describe it. I started flying when i was thirteen (i will be 18 in a couple of months). The way i got into the sport was through a cousin who i had never met before! I had built a stick model P-51 from guillows and my uncle took it on a family B-B-Q to show it and introduce me to my cousin who was in the hobby but only built and didn't fly do to a very very bad back. My cousin and i talked about planes for about 4 maybe 5 hours straight! Then he told me he built these planes called "Control Line" He described them as "big planes that were fun to build and flew on wires and you could do all kinds of stunts with them" As u can imagine with a description like that i wasn't very intrested but a few weeks later my uncle dropped off a box full of video tapes and said they were from my cousin Pete and for me too check them out and tell him what i think And if infact i was intrested, my cousin Pete would come pic me up and take me to the flying Field. Well i looked threw the tapes and wasn't intrested they were all on one guy flying his fox 25 ringmaster and doing the occasional loop. It was when i got to the last tape this sport really caught my eye. The last tape was an episode of an old show called plane talk which featured an interview with Bob Hunt. Bob describe it as almost being a form of figure skating when it came to precision aerobatics and doing the pattern and after seeing part of his flight flying the pattern on the video i immediately called my cousin and told him that would like to try it out. He picked me up the following weekend and we headed off to the Field. I was instantly hooked! and now 4 years later i still fly and dream of one day going to the nats.

[bob branch]

Thanks Steve, ya made my day!

Bob Branch

[Richard Grogan]

I have to agree with most of the comments above, times have changed. But a question of curiosity:
How many "comebacks" has the "Hula-Hoop" made since its inception? Several in my lifetime I recall.Seems like waves.I think CL has done similarly. Maybe not.
 We can only hope that kids will get burned out on the high tech instant-gratification and look for the simple,physical challenge of controline flying to fill that void. Seems flying at school yards could be a good place to draw some attention to passing younguns..

Im probably still dreamin'....

[Wayne Collier]

Saw a group of teenage guys today who were all wearing matching t-shirts with the word "Skyraiders" printed on them. These guys were all flying control line and seeming to enjoy it.

[Mark Scarborough]

At the risk of being thrown under the bus, I have to ask, but first, I am 48 years old, I play video games some times. I spend lots of time on the computer, and I read lots of books,,
of All of you that bemoan the "'instant gratification" banner,, How many have ever actually played a video game? I can assure you that it is NOT instant gratification, the skills and eye hand coordination to actually even pretend to be proficient at these games is NOT an easily aquired skill. Are you aware that there are numerous tournements for video games that pay good money, Im talking 10s of thousand to win? I grant you, there are a lot of kids that desire to remain inside, hmmm I think they learned that from adults that dont want to get bit my mosquitos,, (ok thats a stretch but really they got it from somewhere!) As mentioned by one other post on this thread, the tools to be successful in todays (actually tomorrows world as were talking about kids here) are so radically different than the skills that were deamed neccessary in my day that it is very shortsighted to see these games and computers as a bad thing. There is still, and will most likely in our future , be a need for craftsman, and there are certainly craftsman out there, not as many, but hey, not as many are needed in todays world. I assure you, having done both, video games and computer programing (or just plain being literate on a computer) are just as involved and meticulous skills as our hobby of model airplanes.
I love my models, flying and building, but I assure you that I also love doing CAD work on my comp8uter and playing shootemup games, and racing fantasy cars on my Playstation 2, Its as close as I shall ever get to driving a 600 HP Ferrari racing head to head with another person. So before you start saying how all of this "modern instant gratification" stuff is going to be the downfall of civilization, why dont you give it a try, and see just how instant it isnt!

Myself, I would love to see kids involved in creating things with their hands, however, It is more important that my kids grow up prepared to deal with the work world on a day to day basis, and alas, that means computers and electronic gizmos.

[LARRY RICE]

          OK! Everybody get sticks and beat me up now and get it over with. There are a lot of things that keep kids from flying model airplanes. First you must come to grips with the fact that model building and flying has always been a White, middle class hobby. I hate to say that but facts are facts. When we talk about getting kids into the hobby we are not talking about the poor non white kids who do not have a computer and even a video game to occupy their time. Well here is a story:
          We started making tethered models, a plane on the end of a string that you swing over your head. To test our model I asked this Hispanic kid (12 years old) who plays in the street in front of my shop to build one and fly it. Part of the test was that he had to build it with no help. When he was done with the test I let him keep the plane and gave a couple to other members of his family. A couple of days later he came back to borrow some glue to repair his plane. The next week he was back and wanted to know if he could have some scrap wood from my trash can, he had designed a plane and wanted to build it.
         What we seem to be missing is that there several kids out there who are making there own toys, who are working with there hands and are creating things. We have been looking in the wrong place.
         OK! One more story; There was a kid who wanted to play army so he got a stick and a piece of wood to make a gun. When he wanted a toy car he found some discarded wheels and a block of wood and made the car. He never gave it a second thought, making his own toys was fun. There were kids, in the neighborhood, who's parents bought them toys from the store and they looked down on that kid with his home made toys. Which of these kids went on to build and fly model airplanes...........Yes, you and me.
          The future of the control line is not in the neighborhoods we now live in it is in the ones we grew up in.  So what else did I find out? Poorer kids have never heard of Control Line models. They have never been to an air show where we are letting kids fly a model airplane, why. it cost money to get in. The chili cook off was to far away and in a white mid class neighborhood where they were afraid to go. These are the kids that Black Hawk Models is trying to get to. These are the kids that are the future of the hobby, they are us,
Larry

[Wayne Collier]

I've had a lifelong affection for aircraft.  I grew up near a small airport.  The "look up when I hear an airplane" reflex is so conditioned into me that I've gotten familiar with the local traffic in most places that I lived.  Though I've learned much about the science of aerodynamics I am sill utterly amazed at the wonder of flight.  My brother and I got so familiar with the aircraft in our area that we could identify some of the local private planes just by the sound of the engine.  I've gone to major airports just to watch the big jets fly.  Something purely incredible about a loaded 747 lifting off the ground.  Even now if I hear an aircraft in the distance I scan the sky especially if it sounds like a radial or a jet.  When my wife and I were first married we moved into a small trailer house not to far from an air national guard base.  C-130s and C-141s frequently passed over the house.  The first time I jumped up and ran outside to see an airplane she seemed a bit confused but soon she learned the routine.  Now, 19 years later, she insists on driving if she knows we're traveling past an airport--something about not wanting to end up in a ditch because I,m looking at an airplane instead of the road.  I was heavy into modeling as a kid.  All that being said (and much more could be said), neither of my kids seem to have gotten bitten by the airplane bug.  They are creative and have developed skills in their areas of interests.  It is some times a little sad to realize that they just aren't as into model aircraft as I am but at least they love me and will "help the old fart launch his plane."  My son got into building stuff out of PVC pipe a few years ago.  He would occasionally want a ride to Lowe's for pipe, fittings, or glue.  Some of his designs required heating and reshaping the pipe.  I helped him and encouraged him.   He was playing but he was also learning and developing skills.  Don't know why I shared all this except that it may give some perspective.

[Dick Fowler]

Why do some of you think that because kids aren't interested in model airplanes that... (A) There must be something wrong with them and (B) it's your God giving mission to convert these heathens, to show them the way!

Every time one of these threads get started they hash over the same things and I begin to fume...it always gets reduced to the same old invalid logic. If the kids aren’t interested in model airplanes then there must be something wrong with the kids… there is absolutely nothing wrong with today's kids!

Quite frankly, we are a small group of people that choose to continue participating in a hobby that most kids have outgrown by the time they reach 16. The average person’s eyes glaze over when we start talking about these little airplanes. It’s a very small hobby without mass appeal. In some respects we are kids that never grew up.

Why should the today kids be interested? Are you interested in furniture building or golf or stamp collecting? Does that mean that because you aren’t interested you are somehow flawed?

Some of you should watch today’s kids. They are faced with an overwhelming amount of information that must be absorbed. When I was a kid   I didn’t learn set theory (I had to take a course that was the fifth grade equivalent for today’s kids when I started college). DNA could have been shorthand for a Buick transmission. Calculus was taught in college, high school did not offer the course. The base of knowledge is expanding at an exponential rate and these kids are trying to keep up. I can tell you that when my kids were in grade school, they averaged two to three hours of homework most evenings. I can assure you that most of us never had that much homework. These kids are pushed to learn, teachers are trying to force feed the equivalent of 16 years of new stuff into the current 12 year time period. It’s a daunting task for both kids and teachers. When our kids manage to get some free time, we felt they earned the right to spend it doing what pleased them. 

My kids are relatively young  (26 and 23) for a guy 65 years old. They have no interest in model planes but they and their friends have graduated college and are already out in the world making contributions. These kids may not be flying airplanes, but they are already lifting their end, working hard and I must admit they are far more social aware than I was at their age… I’m comfortable as to the future and what it will be under the guidance of these kids.

Sorry for the rant but today’s kids are a pretty solid group so don’t indict all of them.

The kids aren’t flawed, but people who feel compelled to convert them just might be a bit frayed around the edges.

[Bill Gruby]

  I have watched this thread for some time now and refrained from jumping in here. After all this time I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to incorrectly answer this question. No matter what is said it is right. With that I would like to add that we had six children 2 girls 4 boys THEY ALL FLEW AND ARE STILL FLYING. They were all home recently and we went out one day while they were here and everyone took turns at the handle. It was the most fun I have had in many years.
  I think part of the youth problem is us, for the most part today the kids are catered to. They have more freedom than we had. Yes this is the computer age, and it will never go away. Even we are using it to discuss this problem. It is used for everything. It is only natural that the kids learn it at an early age. We have a responsability as parents to see that it is not abused. You cannot take it away from them because it is a vital component in their learning process. But we can limit its use. When my kids were growing up it wasn't the problem it is today, so it is hard for me to fathom a child being on this thing for hours at a time.
  I have gone on long enough with this, in closing I would like to say that this problem can be overcome. C/L flying has always made a comeback, and right now I see it ready to bloom again in my 5 grandchildren. Yes people there will always be hope for future generations to come. All it takes is people like you and me.

   "Bill Gruby" 

[Wayne Collier]

A friend of mine has two kids in "weighted" classes.  I think its pretty much what many schools have called college prep.  Instead of textbooks they got laptop computers.  They are required to have internet access for some of the classes they are taking.  The local community college here has courses that require some tests to be taken online.  My kids are currently home schooled.  They were in a private school in the lower grades that was very strong in emphasizing the "basics."  One of my kids was reading on a high school level in the fifth grade.  Both my kids get a lot of computer time.  Some for school work and some for fun.  My daughter uses much of her for fun computer time to communicate with friends.  Instant messaging and My Space, Email seems to have become a little behind the times for today's youth.  My son often spends his for fun computer time gaming.  PC gaming does teach skills that are helpful in today's world.  Probably as helpful as "reading a rule" was back in the day.  When I watch him design his own characters and such I see his creativity in action.  At work computer skills are not just helpful, computer skills are necessary.  Kids got to learn it to compete.

ps. I've done some furniture building and stamp collecting; never got into golf but my son wants to give it a try.

[Bill Gruby]

   NOW YOU DONE IT---If you think for one second that a computer is a fix all machine you are sadly mistaken. In my sons machine shop computers are a necessary evil,but until they grow hands and feet they will NEVER replace man. It took a man to make the machine it will take a man who can think and deliver that thought to his hands to correct most problems.

   I worked for GM for 30+ years. They had computers to keep track of the machines,when the machine went down the computer gave a list to follow to fix the problem. Let's say there were20 things to check, it took 35 minutes to go thru this list. I already knew that #20 on the list was the problem,yet I had to go thru the whole list to fix the machine. Which is better a 10 Minute fix or a 35 minute fix. The computer will never replace seat of the pants fixin. Not in our lifetime anyway. Sooner or later you have to go back to basics. If you can't read a scale or a micrometer or other machine tools you will be lost.

  Sorry did not mean to hijack this thread, you can have it back now. This Old Timer Has Spoken.

    "Billy G"   

[Peter Nevai]

Larry hit it smack damn right on the head. The inner city, poorer kids are the ones who are the ones that need attention. Kids who can't get out into the burbs where space for RC is available. In NYC you can get to at least 1 dedicated CL field via mass transportation. Heck even I got there like that way back when.

Get to the 7 train and get off at Shea Stadium, you have to hike it from there but It's not that far. Bob lampione used to take a Cab from Astoria. Poorer kids are far more likely to use there hands to do all of the same things we did as kids. The tragedy is that these kids get far less support and opportunity. So many are lost to drugs and crime.

The shame is that control line has become rather expensive when compared to RC, due to the simple laws of supply and demand. You can get a ready to fly Chinese toy RC park flyer for a fraction of a CL setup. Plus it takes people willing to go to the poorer areas to mentor the kids, or at least inner city CL clubs. Forest Park MAC the Crazy 8's were examples of inner city Model Clubs. Forest Park MAC held meetings at Pete's hobby shop on Jamaica Ave. Right under the elevated Subway. You could get to the meetings using mass transportation.

These areas have not changed, only the CL modelers have moved out of these areas and never looked back.
It is the community leaders of the inner city neighborhoods that you need to meet with. You would get a far more interested and enthusiastic response from these organizations. They are more down to earth and more interested in the kids welfare. For CL to flourish it has to be taken back to it's grass roots beginnings. To the kids who do not have everything handed to them on a silver spoon, where if you want something you still have to try to make it yourself.

Where not every kid has the latest PS3 or PC or their own personal color TV.

[Keith Spriggs]

Get the stones ready because you are now going to hear a REAL heretic.

I also think there is a good chance that control line flying will make a comeback. If it does it will be because of RTF and ARF Electric powered models. It embodies all of the good features and none of the bad. It is clean, quiet, appears to be safe (but it really isn't any safer), instant gratification for anyone with a few dollars and it is modern technology. All of the above appeal to the "younger generation" They will once again be able to fly them in the places that we flew years ago and eventually got run out of because of the noise and perceived danger. This will give more people a chance to see them and some of them will become interested.

Now before you "cast the first stone" let me tell you about my personal feelings. I get a lot of pleasure in scratch building my own planes and yes I have a couple of ARF planes that I bought to get me back into CL quickly . I even go so far as to make most of the hardware for my planes even things like the fuel tank and wheel retainers. Thus far everything I have is Fox powered and I am using the Fox fuel with the messy 29% Castor. I fuel the plane with a Pylon squeeze bottle and use a rewired lantern battery to start it including an old style Kwik Klip. I always hand start the engines and refuse the offer when someone offers an electric starter. Very little has changed for me in the last fifty years and I enjoy it that way. I sure wish I could find some "oil of merbane" to also recreate the smell.

The very first thing I ever remember building was a plane. When I nailed two pieces of wood shingle together with a used shingle nail and I had a plane. That was 66 years ago when I was 3 years old. I learned the joy of creating and I have never lost that joy. It has been a wonderful companion and although I wish that everyone else could know what it is like, it is not going to happen for everyone today any more than it happened for everyone 66 years ago. In the 66 years I have built many things including houses, radio equipment, steam engines, frame off restorations on a 1950 and 1955 Ford convertible and of course model airplanes. All of this also required me to exercise the second love of my life, learning.

Not much in my life has changed except the hammer and back porch where I nailed that first plane together is now a well equipped 24x48 shop and I can now enjoy it full time. If there is heaven on earth this is it.

[Wayne Collier]

 I in no way think that a computer is the be-all, end-all, or fix-all machine.  I have come to realize that it is another tool in the box and one that todays youth need to learn to use well.  Sometimes it is about the most annoying tool in the box but still very helpful when used rightly.  In regard to my previous posts, I have learned that as wonderful as CL is it is not the only route to creativity and success.  It is in my opinion a very good way to express creativity. I've learned from history that guys like Rembrandt and Michelangelo were pretty good with oil paints and marble.  Myself, I like airplanes.  My kids have found other areas in which to express their creativity.  If they decide to take up CL I'm gonna be right there encouraging and helping.   

[Bill Gruby]

   Wayne;


              That I agree with---I apologize. Thats all we can do is wait for them and be there when they arrive.

         "Billy G" 

[jordan miller]

I have to agree with most of the comments above, times have changed. But a question of curiosity:
How many "comebacks" has the "Hula-Hoop" made since its inception? Several in my lifetime I recall.Seems like waves.I think CL has done similarly. Maybe not.
 We can only hope that kids will get burned out on the high tech instant-gratification and look for the simple,physical challenge of controline flying to fill that void. Seems flying at school yards could be a good place to draw some attention to passing younguns..

Im probably still dreamin'....

YES flying in the school yard  is where I get most of my attention to flying.  before we had a regularly cut circle thats where i flew and my cousin and i had several people interested in flying too.....not sure where they went but.

[Jim Thomerson]

I think Peter said something important in talking about inner city schools.  What kids are we not going to get?  The ones who have a complete life planned out.  Speech club, science club, yearbook committee, prep class for the SAT, etc. 

I think  in addition to Peter's suggestion, there are two likely groups.

First is home schooled kids.  Their parents have made a considerable commitment in raising them.  They do not necessarily have a full day of activities, and parents may well like for them to do something like CL.  I understand there are local, regional and national home school associations.  A club should be able to find a few home school kids to work with. 

I did a couple of demo sessions at schools for kids who were wards of the county.  Rapt attention.  Maybe this is a group something like the inner city kids.  How about the kids who are always in detention, in school suspension, etc.  I bet the schools would be glad to have them "babysat" some.   Those kids might like to do something that was not the usual, and possibly would blossom with someone paying attention to them and mentoring them in CL. 

[Peter Nevai]

Noise and danger are subjective. To people who fear kids getting hurt or killed by durgs or gangs, a model airplane engine does not even tickle the danger meter. Noise is a bit tougher but people from the inner cities xubjected to daily traffic, construction noise difffer in what they consider noisy.

Perhaps it's the boy's clubs, big brother programs and the Y prgrams we should be targeting and not the scouts etc, someone already mentioned wards of the state.

Partnering with these groups certainly will draw far more media attention than a scout troop in a up class neighborhood.

[Steve Kientz]

  Check with your local police dept., they will know of troubled youths in your area. When I was growing up our local dept had a "youth group".Several of my neighborhood friends were involved.I know that the effort these officers put in kept my friends from becoming real problems.
  The R/C club I belong to flies on prison property,and spends one night a week teaching the inmates to fly.This program use to be aimed at youth offenders ,but they were moved to another facility. I agree about poor or troubled youth needing more time spent with adults who can show them an alternative.Oppurtunity is the biggest hurdle in todays society. many of these inner city kids ,when given the same oppurtunities as others excel.so fine someone to mentor ,you'll both be better for it.
Steve 

[Jim Morris]

I have had a boyscout leader come up to me when I was flying and he said he was working with the kids to learn to build and fly some CL. I told him I would be glad to get our guys together and put on a demo. He gave me his number and I called about 2 weeks later and left a message. No answer back. There are a few things I believe kids should learn. Swim, gun safety, and to build things. Video games are just a privelage.

[Ryan Taylor]

well i am almost 17, and I enjoy the sport,
 I got my first crappy plastic model when I was 10
Loved it ever since. I have come a long way and will flying in the Brodak contest this summer.
I would have never know about Control line, had my dad not taught me. Kids just don't know about the sport. I do get alot of questions at school when kids see AMA and TopFlite stickers on my notebooks.
just lettin everyone know its not all fat, middle aged men flyin',
sometimes they pull their pale and nerdy kids into the sport with them.
 

[Paul Taylor]

well i am almost 17, and I enjoy the sport,
 I got my first crappy plastic model when I was 10
Loved it ever since. I have come a long way and will flying in the Brodak contest this summer
but then again it's probably because my dad. Kids just don't about the sport. I do get alot of questions at school when kids see AMA and TopFlite stickers on my notebooks.
just lettin everyone know its not all fat, middle aged men flyin',
sometimes they pull their pale and nerdy kids into the sport with them.
 

Hey who are you call fat, middle aged! You are grounded young man. Go to your room!!!!
You will have to wash my car all summer long. And stooge my plane for the rest of my life.

Dad.

[Bill Little]

Control Line modeling has followed all of model "building" in the general sense.  Building models, whether they be balsa or plastic "static" models has dropped off over the years as we all know only too well!  As a kid, I build plastic models, too, as much as I could afford.  That just isn't happening today.

I do believe that the C/L hobby will continue on, and that we will get new blood from the pool of people who get out of school and are set in their jobs (or at least somewhat set) and begin to look for a creative hobby to deal with stress and all of the tedium of life.

We will probably never see the widespread participation of "youth" as it was in the '50s and '60s.  Life has changed and C/L just isn't as attractive on all levels as it was to most of us who are "debating" this topic.  I feel strongly that it will be attractive to more "mature" modelers in the future.  Somewhat similar to the "retreads" of today, except they will be entering for the first time, not "coming back".  And it will not be for the reasons that "we" had for doing this.

[john e. holliday]

If anyone really figures this out you will make a fortune.  If you go back and read the mags from the 50's & 60's  they were wondering then how do we get kids to fly and build.  I now have two grandaughters that fly as well as two step grand sons.  Willow has told me she will fly for fun, but, does not want to compete.  Emmy like the attention she gets flying in contests.  Now if I can get her to doing 8's and outside loops.  DOC Holliday

[Jerry Eichten]

My daughter.

[Elwyn Aud]

Some of them can be found in Texas.
[img width= height= alt=It was great to see someone under 50 picking up the handle!]http://thumb7.webshots.net/t/59/659/2/5/48/2815205480057392307hAQhEU_th.jpg[/img]

[Bill Little]

My daughter.

Outstanding, Jerry!  Another Dawn Cosmillo!    I hope she stays interested.  We need all th eyoung'yuns we can get involved to keep this old hobby alive.

[Bill Gruby]

"Billy Boy"

   Look around you SON you are one of the yung-uns.

       "Billy G"   

[Bill Little]

"Billy Boy"

   Look around you SON you are one of the yung-uns.

       "Billy G"   

Well, Billy G, I ain't THAT far behind you!  Me, and "young" are terms that would only go together if I am at a rest home visiting..............