Author Topic: What a mess!! (Read 5610 times)

Doug Moon · « **on:** January 14, 2014, 09:53:01 AM »

Somewhere in there is a plane I am supposed to be finishing......

Al Takatsch · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2014, 09:58:49 AM »

I wish my shop looked that clean and organized

Al Takatsch

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2014, 10:04:33 AM »

Hmm. Twice as much room as I have, and no car restoration project in the middle taking up space. Yes, it's horrible. I feel for you.

RknRusty · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2014, 10:08:36 AM »

I looked all around your shop... couldn't find the mess!

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2014, 10:15:21 AM »

At least you got a motorcycle in there also. I got three in mine, and no room to work on any of those either! I'll try and take a picture for comparison.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Doug Moon · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2014, 10:24:58 AM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on January 14, 2014, 10:15:21 AM

At least you got a motorcycle in there also. I got three in mine, and no room to work on any of those either! I'll try and take a picture for comparison.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

That is a little Yamaha PeeWee 80 I picked a couple of weeks ago at a garage sale for $200.00. Been tinkering on it and got it running but when it wont idle down below about 30% throttle without dying. Been through the carb twice and chem dipped it for 24 hours. I think the float might be set to high and allowing it to flood. I have noticed the overflow drips some after running. After carb rebuild it starts easy 3 or 4 kicks from dead cold and its up and running.

Checked the reed valves, they are good no cracks. Checked the silencer, clean no clogs. New plug, new oil in the case and the injector.

Has to be the carb and the air mix setting and or the float adjustment.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2014, 11:04:14 AM »

You call that a mess? If you come for a visit, call first so I can restack things so you can have a folding chair to sit on.

55chevr · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2014, 11:10:33 AM »

I can see the floor in there ...

Joe

SteveMoon · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2014, 11:14:51 AM »

I see the problem here. You're letting your wife put too much of her
crap in the garage!

Bro.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2014, 11:22:06 AM »

Quote from: SteveMoon on January 14, 2014, 11:14:51 AM

I see the problem here. You're letting your wife put too much of her
crap in the garage!

Bro.

Yep, at least it looks like the important stuff has taken center stage.

Joe Connelly · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2014, 11:46:50 AM »

You should have my son come and straighten it up for you. You will never be able to find anything again, but it will look neat.

Joe Connelly

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2014, 01:12:21 PM »

Regarding the Yamadinger...beware of what injector oil you use...too high viscosity and it won't pump enough. Doesn't matter what it says on the (other brand) jug! Just use Yamalube. The float level might be it, or maybe a vacuum leak. Try spraying WD-40 (or similar) on all the seams while it's running, and listen for a change in rpm.

Steve

Doug Moon · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2014, 05:49:47 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on January 14, 2014, 01:12:21 PM

Regarding the Yamadinger...beware of what injector oil you use...too high viscosity and it won't pump enough. Doesn't matter what it says on the (other brand) jug! Just use Yamalube. The float level might be it, or maybe a vacuum leak. Try spraying WD-40 (or similar) on all the seams while it's running, and listen for a change in rpm. Steve

I was wondering about the oil. I bought generic 2cyl oil at autozone for use on standard 2cyl engines and it shows atv and motorcycle on the bottle.

You think that could be the issue?

James D. Hayes · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2014, 07:21:31 PM »

I'm living in a apartment and build on a table next to my bed. My wife "loves it" . NOT~~~~ But it relaxes me. I look forward to the house we will be buying in a few months to have a area of my own to build. My buddy I fly with teases me that I should buy a sheet of plywood and build on the bed.

Jim Hayes
AMA 988835

Bob Hudak · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2014, 07:59:25 PM »

Check the exhaust port on the cylinder head for coking. As to the oil injector, premix the fuel, empty the injector tank and run to test. Oh, the garage is a man cave to be proud of.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2014, 08:38:32 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on January 14, 2014, 10:15:21 AM

At least you got a motorcycle in there also. I got three in mine, and no room to work on any of those either! I'll try and take a picture for comparison.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

I've got 5 in my garage, but I build in my basement.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2014, 08:44:14 PM »

Quote from: Bob Hudak on January 14, 2014, 07:59:25 PM

Check the exhaust port on the cylinder head for coking. As to the oil injector, premix the fuel, empty the injector tank and run to test. Oh, the garage is a man cave to be proud of.

Actually if you decide to use premix (which isn't a bad idea) you should remove the injector pump and plumbing. If you run the the thing on premix without any oil in the injector tank it will eventually sieze the pump and break the gear drive on the pump and make lots of noise...bad noise!

Were it mine I would empty the oil you have in the tank and use only Yamalube as was suggested above. It's the only way to get the right viscosity oil through the pump.

There may be other problems however...pull the head and clean the carbon off the piston top and inside the head...change the plug...check for hot spark.

Again use Yamalube!!!!Available only at your local friendly Yamaha Dealer!

Randy Cuberly
PS: I just looked at your post again and noticed you said..."new oil in the case and injector"...what "CASE" this is a two stroke there is no oil in the case unless you're talking about the clutch case...Huh? If it smokes a lot you may have a bad seal between the clutch case and the crankcase...extra oil gets in the crankcase that way and causes a combination of oil and air leak and will cause the condition you're seeing!

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2014, 09:08:12 PM »

Oh Yeah Doug,
You're strictly and amateur when it comes to making a mess. You can actually walk around in there without stepping over stuff...not in mine! Also I can see the top of your work bench (actually a couple of them)...not in mine!

Strictly and amateur my boy!

Randy Cuberly

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2014, 12:27:10 AM »

Quote from: Doug Moon on January 14, 2014, 05:49:47 PM

I was wondering about the oil. I bought generic 2cyl oil at autozone for use on standard 2cyl engines and it shows atv and motorcycle on the bottle.

You think that could be the issue?

I don't think the oil would make it do what you described (won't run at low rpm), but if you want it to run very long, you'd better make sure the oil is thin enough to go through the injection pump. I tried Castrol in my Yamaha 1980 175MX, and it didn't work fer chit. Dumped it out before it did an serious damage. It might not be a bad thing to run a bit of synthetic oil in the gas, just to CYA. Klotz would be fine, I think, assuming it will mix with gas. I'd forgotten about the seals on the crank, but if they're leaking, it'll also do bad stuff, but I haven't experienced that (yet). It sounds like it could do something like that...any vacuum leak. Those carbs aren't very complicated, clean should be good enough. The float valve can be tricky, I suppose.

OH! This thing is a 2 cycle, right? Your last post said you bought 2 cyl oil...uh, never heard of 2 cylinder oil. It's hard to buy a 2 cycle these days, so if you got one, rejoice...they're cool. Pretty soon, somebody will invent electric powered motorcycles (they have been) and get a law passed to require them to all be electric, and ruin the whole event, er, I mean sport!

Steve

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2014, 01:55:53 AM »

Quote from: Doug Moon on January 14, 2014, 10:24:58 AM

That is a little Yamaha PeeWee 80 I picked a couple of weeks ago at a garage sale for $200.00. Been tinkering on it and got it running but when it wont idle down below about 30% throttle without dying. Been through the carb twice and chem dipped it for 24 hours. I think the float might be set to high and allowing it to flood. I have noticed the overflow drips some after running. After carb rebuild it starts easy 3 or 4 kicks from dead cold and its up and running.

Checked the reed valves, they are good no cracks. Checked the silencer, clean no clogs. New plug, new oil in the case and the injector.

Has to be the carb and the air mix setting and or the float adjustment.

Even if you soaked the carb, you could still have a plugged up idle jet. I've had to use a number drill to physically clean them that way on project bikes on many occasions. Depends on how long it has been sitting, but gas varnish can get pretty tough. If you can't pass a piece of .015 music wire through it, it's clogged still. I strip down a carb to the last piece, and make sure I can spray carb cleaner through every port, hole, jet and orifice on the thing. I agree with the others on the injector oil, stick with the manufacturers recommendation, but no need to dump the injector system for premix. I don't know too much about that particular bike, but sometimes they use the injector oil to lube the bottom end bearings, and if that is the case, you need to tear the engine down and split the cases to plug up some passages and make the switch. Can Am motorcycles are that way. In doing research, I have never found a case of an oil pump going bad. It requires a two cable throttle cable, and that is actually the reason most people made the switch. Can Am eventually stopped using oil injection right before they quit making motorcycle because of customer demand for simplicity reasons. If you guys think we have some good arguments here over bell cranks and such, you should see some of the arguments that go on on the vintage bike forums over oil and such!
Sometime tonight or tomorrow morning I'll take some pics of my menagerie and you can post them for me, if you would. I haven't figgered that out yet, but I can take 'em and send 'em. You won't be able to see all the bikes, but there will be the three Pentons in the garage, 14 in my large shed, 2 in my small shed, and 4 or 5 at my nephew's house. But once you see the pictures, you'll see that you are just a beginner in this "mess" thing! And there will be plenty of models in there , just to keep things on topic!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Doug Moon · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2014, 08:46:33 AM »

Cleaned out about half that mess last night and you can actually see most of the floor now on the left side!!

About the Yamahammer. When I said i changed the case oil I meant clutch case oil. I used the weight and amount shown on the dip stick. So I should be good there.

I changed the float level last night and now there is no more over flow drip anymore. But the petcock drips, that is aggravating as it stinks all time. That is an easy change though an not too expensive.

When I did the carb clean out I did break down every part in it. Jets and everything and made sure carb spray would come out of every hole and every hole in the carb case as well. That is a must. Not doing so is a waste of time if you have it apart may as well work the whole thing over. I learned that the hard way working on Holleys. There aren't very many parts in it. It is actually quite simple.

It has strong spark, new plug by the way. It starts very easy from dead cold. Usually 3 or 4 kicks and its running. It has decent compression.

Let me get a better description if what is going on. After warm up and it has good upper throttle response and sounds like your normal 2s motor. When it idles down I can keep it running with just a little bit of throttle. So I increased the idle set screw. This didn't help. Still died with no throttle applied. Restart and try again. Same thing. Restart try again, this time turn out the airmix screw 1/4. After a few tried all of sudden it idles way up. Tap the throttle it ideas back down and dies.

This was before thefloat adjustment i just made. I have not run it since the float adjustment.

It's either the airmix is still clogged or the the float w3as flooding it or there is an air leak somewhere like Steve said. It only has one vaccum line and it doesn't appear to have any cracks or splits. I will try to W-40 trick on it next time I mess with it.

Any ideas?

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2014, 11:14:48 AM »

Yeah,
There's an intermittent air leak, either around the carb boot...or one of the crank case seals...The case seals will drive you crazy...
I was a certified Yamaha Mechanic for a lot of years while going to school for my engineering degree... (1970's) I also raced Yamaha's for a lot of years. This was during the time when almost all smaller Yamahas were two strokes. At least everything below 500CC.
One other thing to check is to look at the carb slide and see if it is worn enough to cause intermittent leaks with vibration. If so there will be a notchy appearance on one side and lots of vertical striations on the slide. The symptom of ideling high and then suddenly dying when blipping the throttle might be indicative of this problem...However I'm betting on a case seal that was improperlly installed or is worn out because of a bad bearing!

Randy C.

bob whitney · « **Reply #22 on:** January 15, 2014, 01:45:38 PM »

with todays gas it is hard to keep small dirt bikes running properly when stored for any lengh of time . the Makuni carb has a high speed and a low speed jet plus a main nozzlethat the needle slides in like others said use a small piece of wire and clean all hole the low speed jet has a hole all the way through it plus some on the sides of itthis needs to be cleaned real good the nozzle can be pressed out fron the bottom and cleaned the air screw should be from one to 2 turns out .if u need to screw it in past one turn there is still crap in the carb there are blind bassages in the carb and sometimes will oit clear out even under pressure it is called new carb time the free flight guys have trouble with thier chase bike because they sit up for one or 2 months at a time i had to go through two or 3 of them at the FF KOI

if the oil pump is working then use it .like they said if u take it off u can buy a cover for the hole from yamaha or u cane remove the cover and remove the shaft and just put a plate on it. that is all that needs to be done on a Yamaha , also check to see that the carb and the oil pumt starts opening at the same time .can be adjusted where the cable go's in the case

as for the seals if the flywheel side seal is bad it will lean out and sieze .pull the flywheel cover off and see if the flywheel will wiggle up and down means bearing is bad, if not seal is prob ok look for any oil coming from the flywheel ..If the clutch side seal is leaking it will smoke more than normal

if you do need a new carb make sure it has all the same jets in it as yours dose .bought a new 175 carb from yamaha dealer and it had all diff jets from ours .had to put all our jets in the new carb and it ran fine hope this helps

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #23 on:** January 15, 2014, 02:00:55 PM »

If the ambient return holes in the plate are clogged next to the jets, I found a wire can cause more harm than good because it will scratch the brass or pot metal, which will collect more crud and make it happen again sooner. Holley's were notorious for this, and Holley's solution was an eye dropper with thinner, which most of the time didn't do crap. I finally came up with my own solution...

Take the long skinny spray tube off the end of your can of spray carb cleaner, (preferably the nasty stuff with MEK in it) walk over to your grinding wheel and put a fine a point as the end of the tube will hold on it. Put it back on your can of carb cleaner, hold it in place with your fingers forming a seal around the tip and to prevent blast back into your eyes, and yes, it may still blow the tube off of the can nozzle too (oh yeah, wear safety glasses). A couple of blasts usually did the trick. Sometimes letting it sit and doing it again was needed. With the Holley's, they would run with a rough idle, act like a vacuum leak, and it would instantly go away with this trick. With cars and Holley's, these were easy to get to without dissasembley, and you could even do it with the engine running while a buddy goosed the throttle, a win win.

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2014, 07:00:01 AM »

This is the activity in my temporary shop-away-from home. I wish I had access to the tools needed to make a stunt plane, I'd have had one done by now.....

Doug Moon · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2014, 07:41:25 AM »

That's going to be cool!!!!

My son saw some rockets this past weekend at the LHS and wanted one really bad. Looks like a spring time activity for sure.

Will Davis · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2014, 07:49:10 AM »

Nothing like a good model rocket to pass some time, the 1b is going to be nice, what power

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2014, 08:49:58 AM »

Doug, rockets are what got me started in flying models. They are easy for kids to build and more tolerant of goofs than a stunt plane for the really young kids. My brother flies rockets with his kids at a schoolyard somewhere near your general vicinity. Given Dallas winds he does not send the rockets up too terribly high.

The Saturn is (hopefully) to fly off the grass circles some evening at Muncie if its not too dry. At home the field I have for rockets does not have that soft Muncie grass to keep it from breaking on landing.

I used the 24mm mount option on the kit, so either a D-12 or possibly an E composite motor, depending on how much it weighs. I have my old 4" Estes V-2 to compare weights and performance with the Saturn when its done and I have a weight.

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2014, 10:42:30 AM »

Quote from: Doug Moon on January 14, 2014, 09:53:01 AM

Somewhere in there is a plane I am supposed to be finishing......

I wish I had as big of a workshope as you do. Mine is half that size with almost that much stuff. I clean it about once a year whether it needs it or not. When the basement starts smelling like balsa wood it's time . I hope you find that plane!

Paul Wood · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2014, 08:18:32 AM »

Quote from: Doug Moon on January 14, 2014, 09:53:01 AM

Somewhere in there is a plane I am supposed to be finishing......

Doug,

Regarding shops, the best piece of advice I ever got was "Don't let you hobby shop become your hobby". I think you've shown us the perfect example of what that means!

Just kiddin'
Paul

goozgog · « **Reply #30 on:** January 17, 2014, 01:49:05 PM »

Awwww. You guys don't know nothin about messy.
Stand back and leave this to a professional!

Note motorcycle tanks. I guess planes and bikes
go together somehow.

55chevr · « **Reply #31 on:** January 17, 2014, 05:11:49 PM »

They sure do.

John Leidle · « **Reply #32 on:** January 17, 2014, 07:37:24 PM »

Your shop is nice in comparison to mine. When you figure out the Yammy's idle problem let us know, I have a 500cc Suzuki that does it a bit but as it gets hot it's better I figure it's the inner seals but don't want to tear it down quite yet...
John

bob whitney · « **Reply #33 on:** January 19, 2014, 07:52:01 PM »

on the Yamaha 250 and 350 twins ,they dont want to kick start if the inner seals are bad but will run if u bush start them

Author Topic: What a mess!! (Read 5610 times)

Eric Viglione

John Leidle