Well I pulled the trigger....

[James Holford]

Hey guys.
 Was looking at the Jr. Lightening Streak to get as stunt trainer and bang around plane... but after doing some reading and such and the price being within my budget.

  I ordered a Sig Twister.  I have 1 big engine being a Enya .35 with some real good compression.

  Any pros and cons to the bird? Having never flown stunt before of any kind I was guessing it was a smart choice. Is the Enya a worthy engine for this plane?

[Tim Wescott]

Which Enya 35?  There has to be more than one.

I strongly suggest that you Fancherize the thing -- search around here, but basically you increase the tail feather area and stretch the thing.  You can either stretch it by splicing on some fuselage in the back, or, if your fuselage is particularly heavy, look for some particularly light 1/4" sheet at whatever local stores carry balsa, and buy it.

[James Holford]

[Sean McEntee]

     There are several things you can do to increase performance.  You can increase the tail and stab as has been previously mentioned.  You can add a balsa "cheek" to strengthen the nose.  You can also sand the "notch" off of the TE part of the ribs and add LE sheet and cap strips to make the airfoil thicker and add a few more squares to the wing area.

      Having said that, they are not necessary.  Box-stock twisters have won contests from beginner through expert, and I have seen 500+ point scores earned by them.  The twister is a very capable airplane built right off of the plans.  Make sure you have the properly selected wood (most SIG kits have decent wood but substitutions might be necessary). Build it light and straight, get it trimmed out right, and practice until it comes apart and build another one.

[JoeJust]

 In the past I have built 12 of the twisters and have not built them anyway but stock.  While many will try to convince you to do otherwise I highly recommend that you build the first 2 or 3 Twisters absolutely stock.  Use these as a stunt trainer and then modify them to make them a better PA ship. In the meantime have fun and enjoy a great flying stock airplane.
Joe you

[James Holford]

In the past I have built 12 of the twisters and have not built them anyway but stock.  While many will try to convince you to do otherwise I highly recommend that you build the first 2 or 3 Twisters absolutely stock.  Use these as a stunt trainer and then modify them to make them a better PA ship. In the meantime have fun and enjoy a great flying stock airplane.
Joe you

 Thats pretty much my plan. 

 Ive built little Guillows ktis when I was younger and the biggest Ive work on was a RSM S1 Ringmaster the I had gotten 75% complete until life stepped in. Since then I gave my dad the plane to finish and fly.

 So as of now I will build stock just to build up those skills... Have yet to decide on finishing material if I will try my hand at using dope or quickly going with Monokote and Rustoleum. Sure I will be requiring yall great incite and guidance along the way

[Ted Fancher]

Which Enya 35?  There has to be more than one.

I strongly suggest that you Fancherize the thing -- search around here, but basically you increase the tail feather area and stretch the thing.  You can either stretch it by splicing on some fuselage in the back, or, if your fuselage is particularly heavy, look for some particularly light 1/4" sheet at whatever local stores carry balsa, and buy it.

While I very much appreciate Tim's suggestion of modifying the stock version of the Twister per my columns (published many years ago when I was writing the monthly Stunt Column for Model Aviation Magazine) I would add a proviso based on James' original post.  It sounds like this might be a first step into the control line world for James and, if so, I think it would be wiser to assemble his first kit the way it comes out of the box rather than delve into the world of kit bashing just yet.  The original Twister is not a bad airplane at all and might very well fulfill all that he needs at this stage of his stunt "career" and assembling it per the plans would simplify the task of "getting with the program ASAP."

If, however, he's advanced enough to want to consider the mods he might want to do a search for the published plans for the Fancherized version and, if he belongs to AMA, search the Model Aviation files section for the discussion/quasi-build articles which were published over three months, August thru October in 1987...1987!!!!!!  It's a good thing they did away with starting points in the pattern years ago.  I can't even stand up after starting within one minute of signaling for start nowadays.

Ted Fancher

p.s.  Just did Stunthangar "search" for Fancherized Twister and came up with this link from the Aeromaniacs club the contains the three articles:  http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Fancherized/pages/p4_jpg.htm

James might want to try that search function himself (I used the "advanced" version which can be selected after clicking on the Search tab at the top of each Stunthangar page) as there appear to be links to plans and kit sources that might still be valid.  This p.s. is not a dismissal of my original suggestion re James' current level of expertise and the added complexity of kit bashing.

Edit:  Ooops.  Should'a read the posts made while I was typing.  Several guys beat me to the suggestion for James to  hold off on mods.  Just proves that although I may be somewhat smart I'm most certainly slooooow.

[Tim Wescott]

Dope vs. Monocoat really depends on what you want -- Monocoat is quicker, and for the amount of zoot that you can get out of Monocoat, cheaper.  But to get a real super-zoot finish you need dope.

One of the members and past presidents of the Northwest Fireballs covers with just plastic covering, including the fuselage.  So you don't even need to do Rustoleum if you're good with Monocoat.

I'm still waiting to hear from someone on your engine -- I'm not familiar with it.  It should be at least as good as a Fox 35, which is what the Twister was originally designed for.  But most people these days would put more engine on a Twister than a Fox 35.

If you're just learning the tricks, maybe you should stop wasting your time listening to us and just go build it and fly it!

[James Holford]

Lol tim!!

 I've flown C/L before but only 1 time I actually got to put in a few flights on a .35 size plane.

 Flown quite a bit of 1/2a in my younger years.


If the mods are pretty basic I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to do them. But I want to try stock for now.. it's already enough I've noticed the plane comes with flaps so that will be a learning curve or I'll just glue them solid to the TE.

May end up getting another late r on that I can do all the mods too.

[James Holford]

I'm not too concerned on the Enya.. my pop has one in a profile Smoothie and it screams!

[Dane Martin]

James, check out this if you wanna use all monokote on the finish for the twister. It's mine, 100% box stock and 100% monokote. It's an amazing flying plane!
Mine is powered by an os30 four stroke. The Enya 35 you pictured is a real power house. I've had two. One was RC and i flew a 46 sized plane with it, no problem!

http://stunthanger.com/smf/paint-and-finishing/twister-monokote-job/

[James Holford]

James, check out this if you wanna use all monokote on the finish for the twister. It's mine, 100% box stock and 100% monokote. It's an amazing flying plane!
Mine is powered by an os30 four stroke. The Enya 35 you pictured is a real power house. I've had two. One was RC and i flew a 46 sized plane with it, no problem!

http://stunthanger.com/smf/paint-and-finishing/twister-monokote-job/

Thanks for the link Dane. Will definitely be looking into it!

[James Holford]

James, check out this if you wanna use all monokote on the finish for the twister. It's mine, 100% box stock and 100% monokote. It's an amazing flying plane!
Mine is powered by an os30 four stroke. The Enya 35 you pictured is a real power house. I've had two. One was RC and i flew a 46 sized plane with it, no problem!

http://stunthanger.com/smf/paint-and-finishing/twister-monokote-job/

Jut went thru your thread...  Awesome work!!!!!  I see Ill be going monokote for this one!!!!!!!!!!

[john e. holliday]

I'm with the pros on building the Twister box stock.  In fact make templates if the ribs.  I make ply templates and stack balsa between them to shape them.   With a constant choed wing it is easy.   As with any plane build light and straight.   Also be patient with MonoKote as it takes a learning curve.   Several good videos on doing the covering on hear.  Most of all don't forget the pictures.

[James Holford]

I've done a lil Satan and Baby Ringmaster with monokote...needless to say it was less s than stellar but it flew lol

[Bill Morell]

Your Enya 35 is a darn good engine. Run it in a "wet" 2 cycle, all castor fuel, and it will most likely outlast your plane.

[James Holford]

I'm not real sure of the history of the engine and I wanna say I got it from our very own Dalton Hammet a few years back. But the compression is pretty damn strong too

[Motorman]

Don't use the crap 3" bellcrank that comes in the kit. Get a nice 4" bellcrank from Brodak and use the middle hole if you want to do stunts. http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/bellcranks/brodak-6.html

Before I put too much stock in that old engine, I'd take it out and see how it runs. They all have great compression when they're gummy. Run it a few time then see how it needles and restarts. If you can use it you'll have mojo, that's a really cool engine.

MM

[James Holford]

Don't use the crap 3" bellcrank that comes in the kit. Get a nice 4" bellcrank from Brodak and use the middle hole if you want to do stunts. http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/bellcranks/brodak-6.html

Before I put too much stock in that old engine, I'd take it out and see how it runs. They all have great compression when they're gummy. Run it a few time then see how it needles and restarts. If you can use it you'll have mojo, that's a really cool engine.

MM

Sounds wise.

 O have a couple of Fox 2" Bellcranks but that may be a bit small for this plane.

 What size tank yall reckon I should get? Im not wanting 10 minute runtimes lol

[Tim Wescott]

Sounds wise.

 O have a couple of Fox 2" Bellcranks but that may be a bit small for this plane.

No, oh no no no.

The kit should come with a 3" bellcrank, because it was made in the Time Before People Realized that Bellcrank Sizes should be Bigger.  You can make it work with a 3" bellcrank (lots of people did), but it'll work better with a 4" one.

But: if you start thinking that all the changes are just too complicated, take Doc's advise and just build the thing.  Done and good enough is lots better than a perfection that'll never get done at all.

What size tank yall reckon I should get? Im not wanting 10 minute runtimes lol

Four ounces should be fine.  I'd use a plastic clunk tank, but a metal tank from Brodak should be fine.  You don't have to fill the tank all the way -- you could put a five or six ounce tank on it and just pay attention to how much fuel goes in.

[wwwarbird]

 Any pros and cons to the bird? Having never flown stunt before of any kind I was guessing it was a smart choice. Is the Enya a worthy engine for this plane?

 Hello James,

 Yes, you've made an excellent choice with the Twister. The Twister is an incredibly capable design built straight from the box. I see the first response is that you need to Fancherize the thing and then you'll usually get a whole bunch of 'must dos" and "gotta haves" following from there. No offense to anyone, but too many here jump right to all of these thoughts and do nothing but severely overcomplicate and make things confusing for newer enthusiasts. A lot of those same people will adamantly argue their points, thinking they're speeding up your learning curve. While the intent is positive, in most cases the suggestions are WAY to big of a step early on. I often end up thinking, "Calm down Beavis!"
 
 In this case here's the deal James, just build your Twister STOCK from the box. With a Sig kit, even the supplied control system will work fine if set up properly. Focus on keeping the model straight and light, and make sure the controls operate smoothly. Also, make sure you have a good running, reliable, and consistent engine/tank combo. (To be honest, I'm not an Enya fan in this case, I'd go with an O.S.) Anyway, as a newer stunt pilot just work on the basics and keep things simple. Focus on nothing more than these things with your Twister project and you will have a model that is fully capable of taking you all the way through from the beginner to expert ranks in competition, if you choose to head down that path. Stick to that plan and you would not be the first person to do exactly that.

[James Holford]

No, oh no no no.

The kit should come with a 3" bellcrank, because it was made in the Time Before People Realized that Bellcrank Sizes should be Bigger.  You can make it work with a 3" bellcrank (lots of people did), but it'll work better with a 4" one.

But: if you start thinking that all the changes are just too complicated, take Doc's advise and just build the thing.  Done and good enough is lots better than a perfection that'll never get done at all.

Four ounces should be fine.  I'd use a plastic clunk tank, but a metal tank from Brodak should be fine.  You don't have to fill the tank all the way -- you could put a five or six ounce tank on it and just pay attention to how much fuel goes in.

Yea I'll probably throw that 2" fox crank in the akromaster. I still need to get lead outs for that kit as well.

[Tim Wescott]

Yea I'll probably throw that 2" fox crank in the akromaster. I still need to get lead outs for that kit as well.

I think I'd put a 3" bellcrank in an Akromaster.  Keep the 2" for 049-powered jobbies.

[James Holford]

I think I'd put a 3" bellcrank in an Akromaster.  Keep the 2" for 049-powered jobbies.

Ohhhh ok.  Good to know.

[Dane Martin]

I think I'd put a 3" bellcrank in an Akromaster.  Keep the 2" for 049-powered jobbies.

+1 on that. I got a 3inch in my akromaster

[pat king]

That engine is an Enya 35 IIIB, it makes a ton more power than a Fox 35 Stunt. As has already been said, run it with 20% castor for lube and it will run forever. My Enya 35 III BB was purchased in early 1966 and has at least 200 hours on it. That engine still starts and runs great.
Pat

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Hello James,

 Yes, you've made an excellent choice with the Twister. The Twister is an incredibly capable design built straight from the box. I see the first response is that you need to Fancherize the thing and then you'll usually get a whole bunch of 'must dos" and "gotta haves" following from there. No offense to anyone, but too many here jump right to all of these thoughts and do nothing but severely overcomplicate and make things confusing for newer enthusiasts. A lot of those same people will adamantly argue their points, thinking they're speeding up your learning curve. While the intent is positive, in most cases the suggestions are WAY to big of a step early on. I often end up thinking, "Calm down Beavis!"
 

I definitely second the words of Wayne and others here, KISS.

About a hundred years ago I had a stock Twister with an Enya .29 that flew the pattern just fine; the Enya had adequate power to manage some unfriendly winds even.

I'd suggest putting off building your Nats winner at least until the next bird.  Meanwhile, get this one together with as little delay as possible and get to the field to fly, fly, and fly some more.  That's where you'll better formulate your future plans.

Good luck!


Dennis

[john e. holliday]

I think Windy U. said it best in one of his write ups,  After building light and straight, get a good consistent engine run before trying too much with the plane.   In the mean time while getting the parts cut out start cutting parts for a second one.  It doesn't take long while waiting for glue to dry/cure.

[Tim Wescott]

Hello James,

 Yes, you've made an excellent choice with the Twister. The Twister is an incredibly capable design built straight from the box. I see the first response is that you need to Fancherize the thing and then you'll usually get a whole bunch of 'must dos" and "gotta haves" following from there. No offense to anyone, but too many here jump right to all of these thoughts and do nothing but severely overcomplicate and make things confusing for newer enthusiasts.

If that's your take, then the best thing to do is to build a Skyray or two -- it's simpler yet than a Twister, and until you can fly round maneuvers that are round and square maneuvers with straight lines where they belong you won't lose anything for the lack of flaps.

AND it's a great resource if you want to learn how to scratch-build.

It sounds like it's a bit small for the Enya 35, though.

[James Holford]

If that's your take, then the best thing to do is to build a Skyray or two -- it's simpler yet than a Twister, and until you can fly round maneuvers that are round and square maneuvers with straight lines where they belong you won't lose anything for the lack of flaps.

AND it's a great resource if you want to learn how to scratch-build.

It sounds like it's a bit small for the Enya 35, though.

I watched a few videos last night on the twister on youtube and seen how the flaps go together... it may actually be simpler than I'm expecting so I may go with them.

 As for the Enya... it just depends how it runs as to wether I will use it or not... Honestly I rather use a Fox .35 just for Nostalgia but I don't have one. Gona try to make a mount and get the things needed to test run the enya.

[Tim Wescott]

I watched a few videos last night on the twister on youtube and seen how the flaps go together... it may actually be simpler than I'm expecting so I may go with them.

 As for the Enya... it just depends how it runs as to wether I will use it or not... Honestly I rather use a Fox .35 just for Nostalgia but I don't have one. Gona try to make a mount and get the things needed to test run the enya.

At bottom, get 'er done.  If we're distracting you too much just ignore us and go do it, whatever "it" is.

On this forum at least you'll always get conflicting advise, so your best bet is to pick & choose which to follow.

[James Holford]

At bottom, get 'er done.  If we're distracting you too much just ignore us and go do it, whatever "it" is.

On this forum at least you'll always get conflicting advise, so your best bet is to pick & choose which to follow.

Lol oh for sure. Just waiting for it to come in.

 No distraction at all.. look up to yall for answers to my questions

[Fredvon4]

James

one of my first .35s was an Enya 5224 and to this day still have that one and 2 more e-bay versions

They take forever to fully break in and once done will last a lifetime with a very broad range of load and props to try

We kids who could not afford the Fox combat engines used them with high Nitro and were competitive and did not smoke the engines

E-bay and many other places you can get most any Fox .35 used or NIB for reasonable money... I am breaking in one of two NIB versions I got each under $40 shipped

Pay attention and you might find several that are run but not worn out... I believe a used Fox 35 in the $25 Range ( many on the web) may be better choice than a NIB version just to not have to break it in

[James Holford]

I have a OS.20FP r/c to trade off if anyone wants to get rid of a Fox.35   .  One can dream lol

[Bootlegger]

 Jamie, I sent you an email...

[Dane Martin]

Awww bubba beat me to it! Lol

[James Holford]

Actually someone bet yall both to it lol

[Steve Helmick]

James...The .20FP is a sought after piece...if I'm not too late, I'd suggest putting it on a SIG Skyray 35. Easy to build, easy to trim, and a pretty good flier with the .20FP or .25LA.   Steve

[Tim Wescott]

Shh.  He might change his mind.

[Steve Helmick]

Shh.  He might change his mind.

I should hope so!!!  Steve

[Dane Martin]

Lol, you guys are funny. But the .20 is good to have. Just so you know

[Tim Wescott]

I should hope so!!!  Steve

Eh, so much for my plans of a twin-engine Legacy.

[James Holford]

Just broke the motor free Tim. Compression is lovely

[James Holford]

I think I own the bad no so much sought after .20FP

[James Holford]

[James Holford]

Also got a OS.10FP.... just sayin but may hold on to that for a Jr. Lightening Streak

[Tim Wescott]

That's the iron-piston version.  I'll pass on it after all, but it should still be a good engine to use on a Skyray.

Just use fuel with lots of castor.

[James Holford]

Jamie, I sent you an email...

Email not recieved.. pm me if still interested

[Motorman]

Looks like it's been previously enjoyed, if it runs good I'd clean it up and keep it.


MM

[James Holford]

Oh its seen some mornings and afternoons pulling a Telemaster 66. Always ran good and tuned out nice.  Telemaster got busted up in a move and it sat for 5 years. Poured a little r/c fuel in it and it freed up and turns good... it was given to me with the plane long ago so if it doesn't get traded it will get mounted eventually. So either way it's a win win