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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: PatRobinson on January 24, 2009, 03:42:24 PM
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Hi Guys,
I have not flown in the last 5-8 years due to health problems that have driven me into disability retirement.
I have been stubbornly determined to fly this year no matter what. So today, at the club meeting at the Huntersville field I dragged out my old Magician with a Randy Smith OS FP-40, 11-6 Top Flite power point prop.
I decided to test if I could kneel down on a foam pad to start the engine and I discovered lot's of lovely back and leg pain. ( "*Note to self- take ibuprofen before going flying") The motor started up and seemed steady.
I hooked up the lines and checked controls. All nuts & bolts were checked for tightness before leaving home so I just made a final check of the plane. I cranked the engine went to the handle checked controls again. To me running a plane that has set up for years is like trying out a new plane. You don't know what is going to happen.
I flew an adequate takeoff but on my third lap the exhaust became loud. I thought the muffler bolts had loosened so I just flew laps about 20 feet up so I would not shake the muffler free. it turns out that the back half of muffler unscrewed itself and flew off, but I kept flying anyway.
As I flew my back and leg pain and stiffness grew more intense and sharp but I kept flying anyway.
( *Note To Self - Take ibuprofen before going flying")
I unexpectedly became a little disoriented ( not dizzy) but I kept flying anyway.
The physical weakness that forced me into disability kicked in about mid-flight and I became very exhausted ,but I kept flying anyway. I gotta watch where I put my big stiff feet and keep moving. Do it anyway.
Stubborness can have it's rewards, because even though I was hurting and feeling weak I had a smile on my face because I was by God flying a stunt plane once again. I did it anyway, and I am going to do it again.
Note* I think I need to create a rig to hold the plane so I can start it standing up so I minimize stress on my joints.
I hope all us old farts can keep on doing it anyway for years to come.
Best Wishes,
Pat Robinson
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Congrats on getting back in the air.
In spite of my desire, I find that when I do a sharp climb or try to go overhead I start to lose orientation. In my case it's too many bumps on the head in my racing days. Oh well, it's still fun, and I can handle carrier, flat and level doesn't bother me!
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Way to go Pat. I have who ever holds my plane stand up while I start my plane. I have everyone at home trained but sometimes I have to adjust at a contest.
Willis H^^
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Richard Grogan has a PVC starting platform that looks pretty good, and easy to set up. Richard ? ? ?
For that matter, I need to build one, too!
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Thats great news Pat! I can sypathize with you, as I have similar health issues preventing me from kneeling down.I built this from 2"PVC pipe. It helps alot when I dont have anyone to pit for me. It's easy to build, and you can even plug in a engine test stand on a board with flanges into the two top uprights! Hope this helps!
A side note: I've had to learn to walk 3 times- 1st at 10 mos. 2nd after hip replacement in 2000, and again in 2006 after arterial surgery. I flew with Ralph after the last one, and made the mistake of kneeling down on the left 6 stented left leg. Developed a clot within 14 hrs, and was 11 hrs away from loosing the leg.Scary stuff. Having understanding helpers really help now, and the stand is handy for solo flying. I have the same leg pain during the first 2 flights, but improves greatly after that. I think if I flew 2-3 times a week, it would be very tolerable. No pain-no gain!Don't give up, and just remember it can get better going through the inital pain of things!
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That is a great story. I understatnd the problem you describe as I am 68 years old, retired and have bad arthritis in all joints, but especially the knees. Have not flown a plane in 4 or 5 years and would like to get back to a regular schedule of flying. I have plenty of equipment and some new planes that need testing, so I hope I can muster up the courage as you have done "to do it anyway". Thanks for the inspiration...........TDurrill
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At Delta park in Portland Oregon we have a bunch ove retired softball players that come out there to practice. There is a regular league that plays every summer so one day I asked him if there were some players that had aches and pains and arthritis and he said yes but we have learned how to deal with it.
I also have arthritis in my hips and one knee. I ride bicycle so when it hurts I get on my bike and after about two blocke the hurt goes away. Just hang in there buddy, you will win and it's no fun to be left out. Us old guys are stubburn and thats what it takes. To get out in the fresh air is the best we can do for our bodies no matter how much it hurts. I would also say take your medicine with you. HB~> HB~> HB~> HB~>
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I'm with you on the kneeling part. I can do it, but I prefer not to. Cars and motorcycles. Damn things should come with warning stickers like they put on ladders.
Saw the mention of Ibuprofen. I've been taking stuff for pain for 35 years. Just recently gave up on the aspirin, naprosyn, ibuprofen type stuff. Non-steroid analgesics, or whatever they're called. Was killing my stomach. Heartburn all the time. Am taking Tramadol now. 400 mg a day, whether I hurt or not. Not bad. And haven't had any Tums in months. Heck, I'm even drinking orange juice and V8 now. Pushing down 6-8 aspirin at a time with a diet soda or a beer for 20 years was probably not the brightest of ideas anyway, but this Tramadol stuff is working pretty good. Thought I'd pass it along.
Hey, like a good Catholic priest says when he first walks out of prison - I feel like a kid again!
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the kind comments and well wishes. I think the disorientation will go away just by flying more and pain can be managed but the chronic exhaustion just requires stubborness to overcome.
Richard, your stand looks interesting. I have a couple of questions: How long does the foot rails have to be to avoid a risk of tipover? Do you add weight to the foot rails to keep the CG low? Just curious? I was thinking of using square aluminum tubing but PVC is cheaper and easier to work with and lighter to transport. Do you have dimensions on how wide & long the plane holding rails are? I am sure other guys may be as interested as I am so I am sure we would all appreciate any details you can share.
I want to once again thank everyone for your input ,
Pat Robinson
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Hi Guys,
..........How long does the foot rails have to be to avoid a risk of tipover? Do you add weight to the foot rails to keep the CG low?...................
Pat Robinson
Hi Pat, I know exactly what you're going thru.....I go through that every spring...but I fly anyway...I found it very useful to have a pole in the center of the circle...and even the younger guys have remarked at how "less dizzy" they were after a hundred or so laps. With the big heavy planes, even the little guys can handle the chore! Keep busy and stay healthy by being happy doin what you like to do! H^^
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Like they say, "men get old but they never grow up" sounds very litteral for your story. #^
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the kind comments and well wishes. I think the disorientation will go away just by flying more and pain can be managed but the chronic exhaustion just requires stubborness to overcome.
Richard, your stand looks interesting. I have a couple of questions: How long does the foot rails have to be to avoid a risk of tipover? Do you add weight to the foot rails to keep the CG low? Just curious? I was thinking of using square aluminum tubing but PVC is cheaper and easier to work with and lighter to transport. Do you have dimensions on how wide & long the plane holding rails are? I am sure other guys may be as interested as I am so I am sure we would all appreciate any details you can share.
I want to once again thank everyone for your input ,
Pat Robinson
No problem Pat! If I don't fly tomorrow, I'll take some measurements and some photos.It works well as it sits, but to do it again, I'd use 4"PVC for the foot rails and set the "Ts" more aft. They are centered on this one. It comes apart in 4 sections for easier transport. I use cotter pins for this feature. The main thing to remember to do is move it out of the way once running! I'd hate to be the subject of a "great bad idea"! LL~
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The smartest thing that was done at our field was to take a lesson from the R/C crowd and build a model stand. As we are all getting up therein age it get's non stop use.
Outside of that it also makes a good place to hold your stuff while your starting.
A portable stand would pay large dividends in your flying pleasure.
Congratulations on getting back in the circle.
Dennis
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A day at the flying field is a pretty good Pilates style stretch and bend workout. Keep it up, Pat... The more you do, the more you can do. Reminds me of Augie Buffalano, a deceased GSCB member. He came back out to the field a few months after his wife passed away, and got hooked all over again. Bought himself ten more years of sunshine and good times flying with old friends. Keep on keepin' on. Tom H.
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Awsome story, keep it up Pat! More people should do the same! y1 y1 y1
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I was on the upper circle watching Pat and I thought to myself I hope he didn't fill the tank. When his muffler came apart it was so loud I thought it was a shaft run but the plane kept going so we knew what had happened. I saw him drift 20 ft off center but he looked OK.I had knee surgery in November and when I flew for the first time after it at the end of December I flew on one side of the circle until the last 10 laps and then I went around and around until the motor stopped and I could hardly make it off the flying circle.It was all I could do to get to the car and load my equipment. Pat don't wait till the next club meeting come out during the week with Larry,Nevel and myself.
Ed
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Hi Ed,
It had been so long since since I flew that I lost many of my routines and habits for going flying, so I probably didn't think things through as well as I could have. The truth is I didn't know what I could or couldn't do so I had to test the waters. Remember, I did say something about me being stubborn.
I honestly expected something go wrong with the plane because it had set up for so long. I didn't know what the problem would be but I expected something. William Davis gave me the muffler that came apart in flight because I misplaced the original muffler. I never thought to check if the muffler was screwed together tightly.
Ya just never know?
As the pain in my back and pain and stiffness in my legs increased I decided to increase the diameter of the circle I walked backwards in. This seemed to ease my pain a little. I tried to stay inside the center circle lines for safety reasons.
Ed, I do plan to come out during the week with you guys. The new I-485 loop seemed to cut 20 minutes off my drive so it is a lot more convenient to make the trip over.
Hi Clayton, I take very little pain medicine. I use mental pain control methods to manage most of my pain issues.
However, I need to take low doses of ibuprofen with food, mainly to prevent inflamation when I become active like say, FLYING STUNT. Inflamation leads to stiffness which I discovered the other day reduces my ability to smoothly control the airplane. DUH!!
I learned my limits and I learned my lesson the other day so I hope handle things better next time.
To John, Matt, Dennis, Tom and wwwarbird I appreciate your input. Thanks guys.
Hi Richard, I look forward to your pictures and measurements for your starting stand. I am so done with trying to squat down to start a plane.
Best Wishes to all,
Pat Robinson
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Pat Here is a secret that no one is supposed to know so I will put it here so only you and I will know about this treatment for stiff muscles. SF guys used this back in the early 60's. Go to Tractor Supply and buy a container of DSMO. Cost $2.99, rub into sore muscle and watch the pain go away. It cost $12 in health store and your doctor will only give it to you with a prescription saying that he would not recommend it. It's horse liniment. Google it. It was good to see you flying again. Flying level for 6-7 minutes will get to anyone. It is much easer to fly the pattern than flying level.Talk to me as I have had pain for 30 years but I had training in the early 60's to handle pain long before I thought I would ever need it.
Ed
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That is a great story. I understatnd the problem you describe as I am 68 years old, retired and have bad arthritis in all joints, but especially the knees. Have not flown a plane in 4 or 5 years and would like to get back to a regular schedule of flying. I have plenty of equipment and some new planes that need testing, so I hope I can muster up the courage as you have done "to do it anyway". Thanks for the inspiration...........TDurrill
Terrence, I am in the phone book, so when you get ready to fly call me and we can get together at the Northern Knights Field just off of NE 96th & 435 on the Missouri side. Hope to be out there more often on Saturdays. DOC Holliday
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Pat,
Here are some really bad photos of my stand. I think the lens was fogged. Hopefully you can get a better idea of what I have, and what you can certainly improve upon.
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Pat Here is a secret that no one is supposed to know so I will put it here so only you and I will know about this treatment for stiff muscles. SF guys used this back in the early 60's. Go to Tractor Supply and buy a container of DSMO. Cost $2.99, rub into sore muscle and watch the pain go away. It cost $12 in health store and your doctor will only give it to you with a prescription saying that he would not recommend it. It's horse liniment. Google it. It was good to see you flying again. Flying level for 6-7 minutes will get to anyone. It is much easer to fly the pattern than flying level.Talk to me as I have had pain for 30 years but I had training in the early 60's to handle pain long before I thought I would ever need it.
Ed
DMSO has been around quite a long while, Ed! it gets into the bloodstream almost immediately. There is also a reason most Dr.'s will not recommended it.........
I have been dealing with pain, also, for too many years. I finally found out that three cervical discsw are gone and i have cervical spine stenosis (sp). The column is closing around my spinal cord in my neck. Doctor said too many heavy squats (he's an Olympic lifter) and hitting too many peopple with my head in football. The only problem so far is a tingling in my right hand and sharp pain in my left shoulder.
That doesn't include the missing 5/8th" they cut off my right collarbone nor the ligaments and cartilage gone from my right knee. Best thing I ever learned to do was ignore pai back in the old days of playing ball. Now it is much easier, I just tell myself it ain't hurting and it seems to work pretty good (ok, sometimes not! :lol: ) if I could only do that with the diabetes, everything would be fine. About the only thing good to come out of playing ball for so long is that every doctor says I have about the highest tolerance for pain they have ever met. Don't know that is such a good thing...........
Mongo
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Sounds like the old "sugar pill" remedy that I have heard of. The mind can work wonders when stimulated in certain ways. Growing old is no fun as I am finding out. I do not like doctors or pills. So when you see me take a pain pill you know it has to be bad. DOC Holliday
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Hey, Richard. I'm thinking about building a starting stand like yours, but I have a question. After starting, how does one, if flying alone, get the plane hooked up to the stooge without having to kneel? Just wondering.........Glen Wearden
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Hi Guys,
Ed I went online and researched DMSO and the clinical trials indicated this was a pretty benign material. The only single negative result in one person that occured was inconclusive because the eye problem that occured was not ruled out in the pre-test physical exam. DMSO is routinely clinically used for physical pain conditions in Europe , Russia and Asia. It is used by pro-sports trainers here in the US. A users group had people who have been using DMSO for 25 years.
I went to the health food store and got a small bottle of DMSO. I took the users group advice and added honey and some distilled water to the DMSO. The honey limits any burning sensation and adding distilled water makes it more effective.
I was amazed at how quickly this stuff free's up painful,stiff and inflamed parts of my body. It really does work.
The only warning is because DMSO is absorbed deeply into your tissues it can act as a carrier for other substances.
This is how doctors often clinically use it in the US and around the world. Don't put anything in the DMSO you don't want in your tissues. (Example,Use only distilled water not tap water.)
Hi Richard, Thanks for the additional pictures. It makes things a lot clearer for me. I have made a trip to Lowes and Home Depot for PVC parts. Neither place had everything I needed. I may adapt my stand to have wheels on one side and a handle on the other so I can just lift the handle and just roll the stand off the circle. I am going to play around withe pieces till I can figure out what I want and then glue it up.
Hi Bill, I am also someone who has lived a lot of my life dealing with pain and sucking it up and getting on with what you need to do anyway.
Some years ago,I had an on the job back injury and received pain control training that helped some. Just a few ago years I developed level-10 back pain on a pain-level with heart attack or kidney stones and nothing the doctors tried could touch it. One night I prayed for help and then I remembered a Yoga relaxation method I learned when I was 15 yr. old and I combined it with the pain control technique and I turned off that pain an eventually it stayed turned off.
What doesn't get turned off is inflamation and stiffness. For me the DMSO relieved the inflamation and stiffness better than any anti-inflamatory drug I have ever used. These drugs do have serious and well documented side effects. A rare few people do have a histamine allergic reaction with DMSO but symptoms went away shortly after the DMSO was withdrawn.
Bill, many doctors may not know about DMSO so they don't reccomend it because the FDA did not finish clinical trials on using it. However, the FDA approves of doctors injecting DMSO for certain clinical proceedures. What The FDA has not approved is using DMSO as a topical solution for joint and body pain and stiffness the way it is commonly used in Europe. Ed and I are not doctors and "we don't play one on TV" LL~ so each person must make their own decision on using DMSO. So far it works for me. If I keep improving I may be able to get back to a walking plan to improve my cardio fitness and also get out and fly more often.
PS. I just saw Glen's very good question and I would be interested in your answer Richard. I was thinking about making a stooge that captures the front of the stab so I don't have to squat down and fiddle with trying to get the tail hook locked in the stooge. Lift the plane out of the stand and make one easy bend to put the stab in the stooge and your done. I am curious about Richards answer.
Guys, I appreciate all your input. Best wishes.
Pat Robinson
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Pat/Glen,
This is the type stooge you need to use. The only thing close to kneeling you have to do is reset the release pin before each flight.This idea is borrowed from Warren Leadbeater of Australia.The 2 long rods on the first pix are stakes that go through angled holes in the board for anchoring it to the ground. Ive seen others that only require a rope around the stab released from an eye-bolt.KIS, but be safe! Hope this clears up your question.
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Hey Pat!
Post some pixs of your incarnation of this starter stand, please! I'm curious to see what you end up with.
PS..look at Elwyn's stooge in the recent "Tulsa Flying" thread. I'm thinkin' bout modifying mine like that.I like it better!
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Yes Elwyn's stooge does look simpler to set up. DOC Holliday