Author Topic: weight guess (Read 4968 times)

RC Storick · « **on:** February 02, 2013, 05:58:17 PM »

Anyone care to guess my eletricfire weight at this stage?

Ill give you a hint it's under 25 OZ.

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2013, 06:13:53 PM »

That leaves room for about 4 lb's of paint!

Jerry

Avaiojet · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2013, 06:21:39 PM »

Robert,

Did you change the lines of the rudder?

Looks really good. Kudos!!

29oz.

Charles

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2013, 06:24:14 PM »

Too much?

RC Storick · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2013, 08:57:19 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on February 02, 2013, 06:21:39 PM

Robert,

Did you change the lines of the rudder?

Looks really good. Kudos!!

29oz.

Charles

Yes and I am going to change it again. 29 oz is at least 4 oz too much

RC Storick · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2013, 06:52:05 AM »

the total wight thus far is 700 Grams or 24.69152 oz

Having never built a electric plane I am guessing If I could come in around 35 OZ painted I should be set. Any of you electric guys chime in and give me a clue please of where I should be before all the rigmarole that goes in to make it fly.

George Grossardt · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2013, 09:01:50 AM »

Looks like a foam wing?

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2013, 09:08:26 AM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on February 03, 2013, 06:52:05 AM

the total wight thus far is 700 Grams or 24.69152 oz

Having never built a electric plane I am guessing If I could come in around 35 OZ painted I should be set. Any of you electric guys chime in and give me a clue please of where I should be before all the rigmarole that goes in to make it fly.

Ya know I was gonna guess 698g. I suppose you can sand off the excess 2g..! (btw GREAT job!)

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2013, 09:47:03 AM »

Before or after you drill holes in it?

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2013, 10:11:42 AM »

What do you use to adhere your cloth? I'm looking for an alternative to dope because of alergies.

RC Storick · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2013, 10:23:48 AM »

I use dope sorry

William DeMauro · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2013, 10:35:35 AM »

Looks great Robert!!! Allowing 25oz for the electronics (thats using heavy batteries) you should end up with a tolal flying weight of about 60oz max with a good chance of ending up around 57oz with the better batteries that im sure you will use.

Paul Walker · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:42:11 AM »

At 35, I estimate you will fly t near 65 ounces. Besides the motor battery, timer, ESC, and safety plug, there is also spinner, prop, tip weight, landing gear and wheels.
My weight goal is 30 oz finished, ready for equipment.

Wow, Sparky going over to the dark side! Who would have thought?

RC Storick · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:46:08 AM »

its at 24 oz now so IDK where it will finish at. But I will try to keep the paint off it.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:46:13 AM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on February 03, 2013, 11:42:11 AM

At 35, I estimate you will fly t near 65 ounces.

Don't tell him that, he'll take it into the driveway and stomp on it!

Quote from: Paul Walker on February 03, 2013, 11:42:11 AM

Wow, Sparky going over to the dark side! Who would have thought?

It's disillusioning, that's for sure.

Brett

Dave Denison · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:48:31 AM »

Right now the numbers look great! If this is one of Mr. Hunt's standard sized Crossfire's your all up electronics system weight should be in the 22 to 25 ounce range, if you're using an E flight 25 and 3000s to 3300s lipos.

Applying your normal high quality finish, can you keep the finish weight at or below 10 ounces? If you can, you will be in the sweet spot of 57 to 61 ounces or so.

I just finished and I'm now putting the trim flights on a very similar sized and shaped ship called the FinessE. I kept track of all component weights and finish, even using Ultra Coat(4.3 ounces) my finished ready to fly weight including battery is 59 ounces. So it looks to me like you're right in the ballpark if the dope doesn't get too crazy.

Regards.
Dave

ama 41041

RC Storick · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2013, 12:03:33 PM »

Quote from: Dave Denison on February 03, 2013, 11:48:31 AM

Right now the numbers look great! If this is one of Mr. Hunt's standard sized Crossfire's your all up electronics system weight should be in the 22 to 25 ounce range, if you're using an E flight 25 and 3000s to 3300s lipos.

Applying your normal high quality finish, can you keep the finish weight at or below 10 ounces? If you can, you will be in the sweet spot of 57 to 61 ounces or so.

I just finished and I'm now putting the trim flights on a very similar sized and shaped ship called the FinessE. I kept track of all component weights and finish, even using Ultra Coat(4.3 ounces) my finished ready to fly weight including battery is 59 ounces. So it looks to me like you're right in the ballpark if the dope doesn't get too crazy.

Regards.
Dave

ama 41041

I just weighed the components and ran the numbers If I stay at just under a 10 oz finish I will be just under 60 oz and that should be fine. All I can do is sand unless I take the wing out.. Sorry again I could not resist.

Mike Keville · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2013, 01:03:08 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on February 03, 2013, 12:03:33 PM

. . .All I can do is sand unless I take the wing out.. Sorry again I could not resist.

Don't forget to give it a coat of Dr. Good.

Trostle · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2013, 01:03:53 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on February 03, 2013, 12:03:33 PM

All I can do is sand unless I take the wing out.. Sorry again I could not resist.

That is funny!!

Keith

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2013, 02:10:10 PM »

Well regarding the weight of the finish, since it's electric, fuel proofing is not required. Is there a lighter, water based paint that could be used for electrics? Is dope the lightest of paints available? I've been wondering about that since the movement began. Maybe a real light blocking coat for a base to cover up the carbon tissue, then a more transparent finish paint, perhaps just dyeing or tinting clear dope? Pigment is where the weight is on color dopes, correct? Free flight scale guys often just add enough pigment to clear dope to get the effect they want and depend on a slight build up of multiple coats for the final look, since you are going to be putting multiple coats on anyway, and maybe not have to seal with final coats of clear?
Just curious,
Dan McEntee

Bill Little · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2013, 03:08:59 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on February 03, 2013, 02:10:10 PM

Well regarding the weight of the finish, since it's electric, fuel proofing is not required. Is there a lighter, water based paint that could be used for electrics? Is dope the lightest of paints available? I've been wondering about that since the movement began. Maybe a real light blocking coat for a base to cover up the carbon tissue, then a more transparent finish paint, perhaps just dyeing or tinting clear dope? Pigment is where the weight is on color dopes, correct? Free flight scale guys often just add enough pigment to clear dope to get the effect they want and depend on a slight build up of multiple coats for the final look, since you are going to be putting multiple coats on anyway, and maybe not have to seal with final coats of clear?
Just curious,
Dan McEntee

Hi Dan,

Bob Hunt has been using the automotive Base Coat/Clear Coat system on his electrics. It takes VERY little amounts of the colors to cover, and in my use seems to be as light as if not lighter than an all Dope finish. I used only 2 1/2 oz. of color mixed with the base maker to completely coat a .35 size Classic model. It made about 5 oz. of spray material and I had some left over.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Brett Buck · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2013, 03:17:55 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on February 03, 2013, 03:08:59 PM

Hi Dan,

Bob Hunt has been using the automotive Base Coat/Clear Coat system on his electrics. It takes VERY little amounts of the colors to cover, and in my use seems to be as light as if not lighter than an all Dope finish. I used only 2 1/2 oz. of color mixed with the base maker to completely coat a .35 size Classic model. It made about 5 oz. of spray material and I had some left over.

The automotive paint, or something like Klass-Kote, seems to reliably lighter than a dope finish of equivalent quality. Dope, done to the max, may be the heaviest of them all.

With electric, I would be sorely tempted to try the Testors "Model Master" solvent-based colors. I have used them extensively on plastic models and rockets and they have incredible covering ability with tiny volumes.

Brett

Avaiojet · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2013, 03:54:30 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on February 03, 2013, 02:10:10 PM

Well regarding the weight of the finish, since it's electric, fuel proofing is not required. Is there a lighter, water based paint that could be used for electrics? Is dope the lightest of paints available? I've been wondering about that since the movement began. Maybe a real light blocking coat for a base to cover up the carbon tissue, then a more transparent finish paint, perhaps just dyeing or tinting clear dope? Pigment is where the weight is on color dopes, correct? Free flight scale guys often just add enough pigment to clear dope to get the effect they want and depend on a slight build up of multiple coats for the final look, since you are going to be putting multiple coats on anyway, and maybe not have to seal with final coats of clear?
Just curious,Dan McEntee

Avaiojet · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2013, 04:26:12 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on February 03, 2013, 02:10:10 PM

Well regarding the weight of the finish, since it's electric, fuel proofing is not required. Is there a lighter, water based paint that could be used for electrics? Is dope the lightest of paints available? I've been wondering about that since the movement began. Maybe a real light blocking coat for a base to cover up the carbon tissue, then a more transparent finish paint, perhaps just dyeing or tinting clear dope? Pigment is where the weight is on color dopes, correct? Free flight scale guys often just add enough pigment to clear dope to get the effect they want and depend on a slight build up of multiple coats for the final look, since you are going to be putting multiple coats on anyway, and maybe not have to seal with final coats of clear?
Just curious,Dan McEntee

"Golden's" artist's acrylic, is a professional brand and grade waterbase paint used for many applications, in the fine art and commercial art marketplace and industry.

I've used various brands of artist's acrylic paints for well over 40 years.

The LOSER isn't electric, so I'll have to top coat the model with an automotive clear, but underneath I "will" use Golden's acrylic. I strongly believe it will work and work well. I've mentioned this before in the Forum. There's also a high gloss clear top dressing available that stays clear.

Golden's acrylic has flexibility, adheres well, even when layered, has built in UV protection and when reduced for spraying,
thin as weasel p i s s, covers reasonably well. Incredable color offerings. Not inexpensive.

Yes, it comes in artist's tubes, but can be purchased in any size containers/jars. Yes, it's thinned and can be applied with an airbrush, It's used in airbrush applications each and every day by thousands of airbrush artists and commercial artists all over the planet.

Sure, most of the art I produce is done with a brush or palette knife, but over the years I have reduced artists acrylic tube paints and sent it through an airbrush, tons of times.

Someone trys this before I paint The LOSER, let me know.

Charles

Google it.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2013, 05:00:35 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on February 03, 2013, 03:17:55 PM

The automotive paint, or something like Klass-Kote, seems to reliably lighter than a dope finish of equivalent quality. Dope, done to the max, may be the heaviest of them all.

With electric, I would be sorely tempted to try the Testors "Model Master" solvent-based colors. I have used them extensively on plastic models and rockets and they have incredible covering ability with tiny volumes.

Brett

Yeah, that's a possibility. I'm thinking about some of the acrylic model paints that are out there now. Years ago, Chris McMillin's oldest son built a FW-190 C/L scale model from a Guillow's kit, and to paint the camo scheme he used Tamiya acrylics. Took very little to cover and was sealed with DuPont 380S clear, if I remember correctly. If you combined a well designed paint scheme, picked the right colors, and followed the "just enough to do the job" method of application, a lot of finish weight could be saved if you have a specific target weight you are trying to hit. I just wish I had the time to build the stuff I wanted to try some of the ideas that I have been mulling around in my head.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

RC Storick · « **Reply #25 on:** February 03, 2013, 05:34:28 PM »

Thanks for the replies but a light finish is not too much in what paint its in how much you put on. This is governed by how my sanding you are willing to do prior to application. Its kinda like chrome. Chrome on any bumper is only 50 millionths thick but the metal below it looked like chrome before coating.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2013, 06:16:48 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on February 03, 2013, 05:00:35 PM

If you combined a well designed paint scheme, picked the right colors, and followed the "just enough to do the job" method of application,

You need to do that with any paint. The difference in finish weights between various types of paint system seems to be a function of the coverage - the better the coverage, the less weight.

Brett

Mike Keville · « **Reply #27 on:** February 03, 2013, 09:22:07 PM »

Just drill some rough holes in it, Bob. Seems to be an accepted practice elsewhere. You might be able to save, oh, say, 1/100th of an ounce here-and-there. (Sorry....couldn't resist it.)

wwwarbird · « **Reply #28 on:** February 03, 2013, 09:44:21 PM »

Quote from: Douglas Ames on February 03, 2013, 09:47:03 AM

Before or after you drill holes in it?

Lookin' good Sparky, not sold on the fin/rudder outline though, just me.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #29 on:** February 04, 2013, 05:59:49 AM »

Model railroad paints are super light and cover really good. Have to rremember not to touch until a coat of clear is over each color is applied. We used it on F2C planes.

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #30 on:** February 04, 2013, 12:33:37 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on February 04, 2013, 05:59:49 AM

Model railroad paints are super light and cover really good. Have to rremember not to touch until a coat of clear is over each color is applied. We used it on F2C planes.

Floquil Old Silver, here we come!

Hey Sparks, will that new plane be sufficiently rigid?

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #31 on:** February 04, 2013, 01:17:35 PM »

Robert

What kind of carbon fabric did you use? 2.4oz? 2.9?

Thanks

Marcus

RC Storick · « **Reply #32 on:** February 04, 2013, 01:34:13 PM »

Quote from: MarcusCordeiro on February 04, 2013, 01:17:35 PM

Robert

What kind of carbon fabric did you use? 2.4oz? 2.9?

Thanks

Marcus

.02

RC Storick · « **Reply #33 on:** February 04, 2013, 01:37:01 PM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on February 04, 2013, 12:33:37 PM

Floquil Old Silver, here we come!

Hey Sparks, will that new plane be sufficiently rigid?

Very ridged!

RC Storick · « **Reply #34 on:** February 04, 2013, 06:32:13 PM »

I see just like Tim I am sanding and painting. I forgot how much work it really is. I'm shooting for that 36 inch finish in only 6 OZ. Now thats a laugh!

RC Storick · « **Reply #35 on:** February 05, 2013, 11:07:00 AM »

I put the plane together less tip weight. I am at 1388 grams or 48.95976 OZ. thats with the covering on and all the components. So I have just under 10 OZ for a finish to stay at 60 OZ.

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #36 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:32:25 PM »

Interesting... I see different people start counting what they call the weight of the finish at different stages... Robert, I take it you don't count silkspan and filling the silkspan, or in this case CF, as part of your 10 ounce finish allotment? I usually try to allot 10 ounces for bare wood on up, including fillets, etc.
EricV

RC Storick · « **Reply #37 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:38:53 PM »

this is where I am at with the covering.

Doug Moon · « **Reply #38 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:10:56 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on February 03, 2013, 11:42:11 AM

At 35, I estimate you will fly t near 65 ounces. Besides the motor battery, timer, ESC, and safety plug, there is also spinner, prop, tip weight, landing gear and wheels.
My weight goal is 30 oz finished, ready for equipment.

Wow, Sparky going over to the dark side! Who would have thought?

Paul,

30oz finished waiting for drivetrain! That is awesome!!

Alan Resinger · « **Reply #39 on:** February 05, 2013, 02:08:29 PM »

Bob Hunt's Crossfire (last years) weighed 62.5 oz. and flew pretty well. My new one is just waiting for the clear to harden so I can start buffing it out. Right now with everything installed it weighs 63 oz. with an E-flight 32. I'm happy with the weight. My Crossfire from last year had some weight problems due a paint mishap involving water based auto paint and Omni clearcoat. It weighed 72 oz but flew pretty well.

RC Storick · « **Reply #40 on:** February 05, 2013, 03:47:09 PM »

Looks great!

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #41 on:** February 05, 2013, 04:52:58 PM »

Marcus

wwwarbird · « **Reply #42 on:** February 05, 2013, 07:09:36 PM »

Quote from: Alan Resinger on February 05, 2013, 02:08:29 PM

Bob Hunt's Crossfire (last years) weighed 62.5 oz. and flew pretty well. My new one is just waiting for the clear to harden so I can start buffing it out. Right now with everything installed it weighs 63 oz. with an E-flight 32. I'm happy with the weight. My Crossfire from last year had some weight problems due a paint mishap involving water based auto paint and Omni clearcoat. It weighed 72 oz but flew pretty well.

GREAT looking plane Alan, and a very cool choice for a paint scheme. Well done!

Dave Denison · « **Reply #43 on:** February 05, 2013, 07:42:13 PM »

Alan.

Outstanding paint work, the color scheme is sweet. Looks even better than the one you brought to Eugene last year. Looks like 2013 could be the year of the Crossfire!

Regards.
Dave
ama41041

Author Topic: weight guess (Read 4968 times)

Eric Viglione