Author Topic: VSC thoughts (Read 7685 times)

Mike Keville · « **on:** May 07, 2015, 10:12:09 PM »

I would just like to remind everyone that the original idea behind the Vintage Stunt Championships (probably should have called it the Vintage Stunt RALLYE?) was to celebrate the designs of a bygone era -- and NOT to collect trophies. What we originally envisioned was a more-or-less "Fun Fly" featuring Barnstormers, All Americans, Zilches, et al.

Over the past several years, the VSC seems to have become a "must win" gathering, featuring an overwheling number of designs such as the Jamison and Humongous - valid OTS designs, to be sure....but boring.

Several people acknowledge this, presenting unusual old designs: Jim Lee, Keith Trostle, Roy DeCamara, Jim Kraft, Ian Russell....to name just a few.

Please! Don't allow the VSC to become just another Stunt contest. Bring those early Stunt designs to VSC-28 next March.

John Leidle · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2015, 01:13:30 AM »

Well put in all regards Mike.

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2015, 01:53:19 AM »

Like this? Maybe some of those Sterling high wingers would be a good idea.

dale gleason · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2015, 03:02:23 PM »

Here's what I brought to one VSC.....

dale gleason · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2015, 03:05:31 PM »

...and this.....
Great times, with guys like Jim Hoffman, Mark Smith, Leroy Black, Steve Holt, Keith and all the boys, it will roll along.
dale g

Jim Carter · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2015, 03:16:03 PM »

Greetings! Would something like this be allowed .... without everyone laughing at me??

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2015, 05:21:00 PM »

Quote from: Mike Keville on May 07, 2015, 10:12:09 PM

I would just like to remind everyone that the original idea behind the Vintage Stunt Championships (probably should have called it the Vintage Stunt RALLYE?) was to celebrate the designs of a bygone era -- and NOT to collect trophies. What we originally envisioned was a more-or-less "Fun Fly" featuring Barnstormers, All Americans, Zilches, et al.

Over the past several years, the VSC seems to have become a "must win" gathering, featuring an overwheling number of designs such as the Jamison and Humongous - valid OTS designs, to be sure....but boring.

Several people acknowledge this, presenting unusual old designs: Jim Lee, Keith Trostle, Roy DeCamara, Jim Kraft, Ian Russell....to name just a few.

Please! Don't allow the VSC to become just another Stunt contest. Bring those early Stunt designs to VSC-28 next March.

Hey Uncle Mikey,
I don't completely disagree with what you've said, but do to some small degree.
I still see a variety of stuff in Old time, and an even larger variety of airplanes in Classic. Don't forget OT was won this year by a Ringmaster and Ignition by and even older design.

I noticed a fair variety of "different" stuff in both OT and Classic this past VSC.

I think that there are about 6 or seven serious fliers in Classic and maybe about the same number in OT...The rest are there to have a good time and meet old friends.

Don't forget my friend You started this MESS!

Personally I think it's doing just fine! I think there is plenty of room for both serious competitors and Semi competitor sport fliers and that's the mix I see.

It's true that the entries have dropped a bit from the "Salad Days" but there are a about a million different reasons for that and one of the biggest is WE are getting OLD. Driving half way across the country isn't as much fun when you're OLD and SICK! A lot of the folks that used to come for fun now fall into that category...not to mention that a few of the "Best" have moved on to another better place.

VSC is still a unique and fun happening and I believe it will be for a long time to come!

Randy Cuberly

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2015, 05:23:57 PM »

Quote from: Jim Carter on May 08, 2015, 03:16:03 PM

Greetings! Would something like this be allowed .... without everyone laughing at me??

Nobody ever laughs at Bi Planes...The only thing that could possibly get more attention is one with a Round Engine!

Randy Cuberly

john e. holliday · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2015, 11:42:01 AM »

Like my Sheeks Staggerwing. It was a couple of hours before I could get it down to the circle for a flight. I would still be there if not for the knees and financing. I miss all the guy and gals. The first year I went was just to see what it was all about. The second year I went by myself because I knew some of my heroes were going to be there. The awards I received were a surprise. But, really I think the guys let me on the field just because I had Sandy the demented poodle with me. There are so many memories and how do we thank Uncle Mikey for what he came up with.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2015, 12:13:31 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on May 09, 2015, 11:42:01 AM

Like my Sheeks Staggerwing. It was a couple of hours before I could get it down to the circle for a flight. I would still be there if not for the knees and financing. I miss all the guy and gals. The first year I went was just to see what it was all about. The second year I went by myself because I knew some of my heroes were going to be there. The awards I received were a surprise. But, really I think the guys let me on the field just because I had Sandy the demented poodle with me. There are so many memories and how do we thank Uncle Mikey for what he came up with.

Right on Doc.

I have the Sheeks Staggerwing that Jonn Miller built and one of these days I will get around to flying it! Right now too many airplanes to finish...sanding painting, sanding painting, sanding painting...masking is the worst job in the world!

Randy Cuberly

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2015, 04:26:09 PM »

Miie. I pretty much said the same thing as you (a couple times, actually). And I got yelled at by a lot of guys who insisted the VSC was "really about the camaraderie, etc.".

I don't think they will yell at you. Mostly just out of respect.

frank williams · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2015, 08:32:28 AM »

I'd also like to see the planes powered by period motors .... McCoy, Johnson, Fox, ....... certainly OTS ..... love the smell of castor in the morning

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2015, 01:57:08 PM »

The original premise was twofold: first, an observation that this "laid back" meet was attracting too many of those who fly to win at any cost. (That is usually the path of evolution followed by many "for fun" contests)

second, a plea (or a challenge) to explore designs other than Humongi, Jamison, etc. A noble effort, but remember that these two designs are kitted, simple builds, and are big sellers. Very few nowadays are willing to research, draw plans, and build an obscure OTS design. It would be great, but probably wishful thinking, if those cottage industries would kit something other than "the usual".

I'm now thinking of the Madman kit, being a bit "different", but this is more difficult to build than the others. A simple "box" model appeals to kit-builders.

I responded earlier to the first premise, but failed to deal with the "Jamison" issue.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2015, 02:02:21 PM »

Maybe I will make it down next year and set the record straight with my Box Car Chief with the Super Cyclone. It has yet to do a vertical 8, but is still a blast to fly. I miss the people terribly. I have not been there since 2011 because of factors beyond my control. Joe Gilbert always calls me on the way home from there and tells me what I missed. I love Joe like a brother, but sometimes. LOL. I have so many great memories from VSC and just have to find a way to make that 1150 mile trip again. I have to say that after all of the model events I have been to including R/C pattern contests, VSC is still the greatest model happening on the planet in my humble opinion. For me it is also very expensive and I have to count the cost. We have to spend at least 2 weeks, one in Tucson, and one in Sun City Grand at my wife's twins place. About $2500 buckaroos no matter what we do. I have a fairly good fixed income, but the way things keep going up I am starting to have to watch what I spend it on. I am gratefull to have such a wonderful wife that will support me in what ever I do as long as it does not include a boat of any kind. LOL

john e. holliday · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2015, 04:34:16 PM »

I too Jim need to get back to VSC. Not too many will remember my test flight of the King Sweep. I now have several patterns on it.

dale gleason · « **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2015, 04:36:25 PM »

Don't sell your "Boxcar Chief" short, Jim. I think it was John Wright who brought a newly built one to the NATs to compete in OTS. I was honored to be asked to judge the event and I shanghaied Dougie Moon to judge with me. After a quick seminar he was up to speed, a quick study, he.

Frank McMillan was flying a "Big Job" with high zoot equipment, PA motor, solids, CF prop, etc, definitely flying superbly in Round One. John's "Boxcar Chief" suffered a rich motor run, and his Fox burp could not be heard for miles. Lost in the crowd, that one.
After round two, and an amazing Fox 35 performance, that "Boxcar" flew outstandingly, a rhapsody in blue smoke...

OK, John didn't win, placed 2nd to Frank, but, the beautiful Vertical Eights traced by that clear finished all dope high wing remnant from the past is still written about today. Right now. Here.

dale g

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2015, 05:05:33 PM »

Dale; When I flew mine on a Fox 35 it flew really well. Then, I put in the Cyke and all the ignition goodies and it brought the weight up considerably. It still flys well with a 12-8 power prop, but I just haven't had the guts to try a vertical 8 yet. Does the rest of the pattern fine and grooves really well. You just have to lead it a little to keep it from mushing.

I remember when you brought the Twin Terror to VSC. That was a hoot. We all had our eyes glued to your flight and enjoyed every bit of it. There have been some pretty obscure designs there including a Super Looper. Rusty Brown always brought something unusual as have many others. Did anyone fly in the exhibition event this year? Someone brought a Stanzel Tiger Shark one year and flew it just for fun but not in the contest. The only thing was it had an OS 40 FP instead of a good old sparker in it. It was really cool anyway.

Mike Keville · « **Reply #17 on:** May 10, 2015, 09:23:53 PM »

Jim:
Re-install the Fox! The BCC is capable of marvelous Vertical 8s (and everything else) on Fox power.

Then let's just hope you can find the $$$ to make it down here to VSC-28. We'd love to see you again!

(Living on a shoestring budget these days, I do understand about the "$$$" part!)

wwwarbird · « **Reply #18 on:** May 10, 2015, 10:07:20 PM »

I've only been fortunate enough to make the 1800 mile (one way) trek to VSC one time, I think it was 2007. Keith Sandberg and I loaded up his truck with airplanes and supplies and we were there for the entire event. Whenever it was there was a day when Chris McMillin flew the Tigercat shown above and Bob Whitely flew a brown painted P-38 of about the same size. Neither one was a "front row" example or much of a stunter, they were both just COOL OLD MODELS. Another one that year that I really thought was cool was a Kenhi Cougar finished in a Canadian (I think?) military paint scheme, and very nicely done. I also got to see Keith Trostle's iconic Gulfhawk Bearcat in person, it's one of my favorite models of all time. It was showing a slight bit of age but it was still awesome to finally get to see it.
There were a ton of other models that I really enjoyed getting to see as well, and some very beautiful renditions. These few notes only touch the tip of the iceberg of enjoyable memories from my one-and-only visit to Tucson. I wish I could make the trip every year, it's the only contest where you get to see such a variety of neat old designs all in one place. While winning a VSC trophy is the desire of many I agree with Mikey's thoughts, show up with something different than the norm, enjoy reliving the history of our hobby, then drive home with a smile and stinking of castor oil. That's really what it's all about.

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2015, 06:48:17 AM »

Mike:

I have the Handbook for Model Builders and it says "Material reprinted from Mechanix Illustrated copyright 1947, 1948, 1949, and 1950." with the book itself being copyright 1950. So all the model airplane plans in it should be eligible for OTS, correct?

Scott

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2015, 08:58:16 AM »

Scott
I got some NEW motors you could put in one if ya want to.
provided they are for a 35 or 40 sized plane.

Carl

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2015, 12:00:34 PM »

Quote from: Carl Cisneros on May 11, 2015, 08:58:16 AM

Scott
I got some NEW motors you could put in one if ya want to.
provided they are for a 35 or 40 sized plane.

Carl

Well, that certainly sounds logical and good proof of date for the designs!

What designs are they?

Randy Cuberly

Randy Powell · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2015, 12:15:05 PM »

I suppose I look at it more as building stuff that I always wanted to build (or did build) as a kid. Re-live the glory days when I was 14.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2015, 12:45:44 PM »

Quote from: Scott Richlen on May 11, 2015, 06:48:17 AM

Mike:

I have the Handbook for Model Builders and it says "Material reprinted from Mechanix Illustrated copyright 1947, 1948, 1949, and 1950." with the book itself being copyright 1950. So all the model airplane plans in it should be eligible for OTS, correct?

Scott

Scott,
Sorry the post above was supposed to be to you and my bandaged finger got in the way.

At any rate the answer to your question is It should be good proof of age of the designs!

What are the airplanes?

Randy Cuberly

wwwarbird · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2015, 06:10:06 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on May 11, 2015, 12:15:05 PM

I suppose I look at it more as building stuff that I always wanted to build (or did build) as a kid. Re-live the glory days when I was 14.

Yep that too, part of what I meant by "reliving the history".

Mike Keville · « **Reply #25 on:** May 11, 2015, 06:57:06 PM »

I believe Keith's "Swee Pea" is from a Mechanix Illustrated article/plan. They had some other good ones too, if memory serves: Hughes H-1 Racer; Douglas DC-3, among others.

"Them wuz the days!"

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #26 on:** May 11, 2015, 07:40:29 PM »

Randy:

There are a bunch, but not all would be good for a stunt pattern:
Wedell Williams Racer
Curtis P-6E
Spirit of St. Louis
Howard Hughs Record Racer
Rickenbacher's SPAD 13
Spifire IX
"Wedgie"
"Mister Mulligan"
Great Lakes Trainer
Stunt King

Really only the Spirit of St. Louis, Wedgie, and Stunt King are stuntable.

Scott

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #27 on:** May 11, 2015, 07:47:35 PM »

Quote from: Scott Richlen on May 11, 2015, 07:40:29 PM

Randy:

There are a bunch, but not all would be good for a stunt pattern:
Wedell Williams Racer
Curtis P-6E
Spirit of St. Louis
Howard Hughs Record Racer
Rickenbacher's SPAD 13
Spifire IX
"Wedgie"
"Mister Mulligan"
Great Lakes Trainer
Stunt King

Really only the Spirit of St. Louis, Wedgie, and Stunt King are stuntable.

Scott

Wow, Quite a line up!

A SPAD!!!?? Great!

Randy Cuberly

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #28 on:** May 11, 2015, 08:26:22 PM »

Some of the plans were by Walt Musciano and others by Cal Smith.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #29 on:** May 11, 2015, 09:55:59 PM »

I'm not sure how it could be judged, but maybe a "Most Obscure Design" award is something to consider? As the list of winners would grow each year they could then all be known as members an elite VSC group, the "M.O.D. Squad".

It might help bring some more variety to the flight line and still lure the trophy hungry folks.

Trostle · « **Reply #30 on:** May 12, 2015, 03:43:11 AM »

Quote from: Scott Richlen on May 11, 2015, 07:40:29 PM

Randy:

There are a bunch, but not all would be good for a stunt pattern:
Wedell Williams Racer
Curtis P-6E
Spirit of St. Louis
Howard Hughs Record Racer
Rickenbacher's SPAD 13
Spifire IX
"Wedgie"
"Mister Mulligan"
Great Lakes Trainer
Stunt King

Really only the Spirit of St. Louis, Wedgie, and Stunt King are stuntable.

Scott

At the '99 VSC, there were two Walt Musciano Spirit of St Louis models. Both were OTS pattern capable and made a respectable showing. The were both light. Placed 8th and 14th in a field of almost 80.

Jim Lee had one of those. He has also entered the Stunt King which is probably one of the best OTS models on that list.

Keith

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #31 on:** May 12, 2015, 05:25:20 AM »

Yes, the St Louis is a really good-looking model and the Stunt King just looks like it'd be great (nice fat airfoil)

Anyone ever build a Wedgie?

Jim Hoffman · « **Reply #32 on:** May 12, 2015, 05:49:04 AM »

Gents,

VSC does have a venue to fly or display models that you may not want to enter in OTS or Classic events. We have offered an Exhibition event the past 2 years.

Exhibition Event
•   Venue to display/ fly cool airplanes and equipment of yesteryear
•   Build and fly something cool, but not necessarily competitive.
•   Award for best “Spirit of VSC” participant
•   Flies after OTS on Tue
•   No Entry formality - Show up, and show us something cool.
•   AMA license and pull req’d

Jim Hoffman

Author Topic: VSC thoughts (Read 7685 times)

John Leidle