Being Prepared: A Shared Back-up Model for Team USA

[Dennis Adamisin]

Was chatting with Bob Hunt last night about Kenny Stevens’ bad luck.  Thinking back there have been several times when USA team members have had to scramble to compete in the WC’s
* Model lost in transit (Dick Williams in 1962)
* Models damaged in transit (numerous)
* models damaged in practice or competition (numerous)
* Models late to arrive (numerous)
* Engines damaged/destroyed by bad fuel (numerous)
 
I have wondered about this for awhile.  Basically the idea is to have a shared back-up airplane that is available for Team members if their #1 ship comes to grief.  Since there is no BOM nor appearance points at the Worlds, a capable generic design could serve as a back-up for one of the team members. (pretty sure the international rules do not allow two competitors to use a single model)

Modern take-apart models can be shipped & stored in a small box.  Arrangements could be made to ship the shared back-up model ahead of time. Usually shipping costs are directly related to speed, overnight delivery is obscenely expensive, two week delivery much much less.  With a little planning - and luck - it could probably even be left in storage with someone willing to tuck it away.

So what shall the design be? Who would build it? Test & trim it? Who would pay for it?
 
Let's start with the last point first.  This could be fairly expensive by the time it is complete.  However I was struck by how many people QUICKLY volunteered to donate cash to try to ship a replacement airplane to Kenny.  I think that that spirit of volunteerism could be tapped into.  We could also solicit sponsorships for some of the powertrain & hardware needs, and possibly help fund the project by publishing the design.

The emphasis in building would be in a stable & robust structure, with a minimal & light weight finish. The take-apart hardware must also go together in a repeatable way. 

As for what to build and how to engineer the take-apart hardware, we need to tap into the experience of of our very talented past & present team members who have dealt with those challenges and can share what the have learned.

Then there is the matter of the shipping & storage box.  Again, we just need to fund the execution.

Whatcha think?

[Paul Smith]

In the absence of the BOM in FAI, shouldn't it be easy to borrow a plane in eastern Europe?  Obviously not your first choice, but better than nothing.  The play-it-safe plan would be just bring two.  If a big name foreigner broke a plane here I'm sure he would have plenty of offers.

[Dave_Trible]

A great idea Denny.  Count me in for any part of it.

Dave

[PJ Rowland]

At the level of competition we are talking about Top 10 Worlds / Top 5 US the difference between performing at a level expected by both competitor and country using your own ship vs having a 'rental backup' is almost pointless.

Sure I've seen some great patterns put with with host planes - I've flown others planes and the caliber is always excellent but its not your own.

Ever slept in a fine 5 star hotel bed vs sleeping in your own bed.

I wouldn't be in favor of saying to anyone " Hey spend thousands of your own dollars - go overseas and fly a rental and expect it to be a worthwhile exercise. "

The cost involved in building/shipping/carrying a spare would far outweigh any benefits. Having 2 models identical doesn't always indicate that the performance of both will be identical.

We have a host of guys who would volunteer to build a plane - thats not the issue..

Heck I will donate a PA75 / props / pipes / fuel to go inside a "team backup"

but I'd be shocked who would want to fly such a plane under the pretense " Go overseas but when your model splatters all over the pavement you can fly this " and expect to have the same level of success.





 

[Mark Scarborough]

PJ,, while your point is valid,, being 7 or 8 thousand miles from home,, at a world level contest,, and not having an airplane,, which is worse,, flying something that is a good solid perforemer though not YOURs,, or sitting on the bleachers and cheerleading,,

[PJ Rowland]

Mark ; I get that.

The premise is sound. I'm certainly not going to speak for anyone else but myself, however I'd be surprised if my feelings aren't echoed by others.

The reality is ; Its making the best of a bad situation. I feel for Kenny - I really do, having just returned from an overseas contest, the reality of failure was ever present. What to do if I had a catastrophic event and how I deal with that was not far from my mind.

We talked for almost 1 hr about his plane, his expectations of Poland, the chance to represent USA and how excited he was to be putting his best foot forward, this news is awful. SIMPLY AWFUL. And I wouldn't wish this upon anyone.

I had issue with all of a sudden feeling that there was some sort of void that needed to be filled by basically saying ; Lets have a plan in place to ship a community built rental to be available to anyone who had failure due to misfortune just so they had something to fly and not sit and watch.

The POINT is : This is altruistic at best & impractical in concept, one must understand that fully.

Here are 2 quick photo's from Poland for the guys : Perhaps note the quality of the Grass.

[Derek Barry]

If you were going to do something like that, the answer is simple. You will need $4000 to purchase a "Team USA" Shark. Keep it in the box in case of emergencies. Any good pilot can pull a shark out of the box and be competitive at the highest level. Obviously it would need to be IC with the retro that comes with it because it will be much easier and cheaper to find a gallon of FAI fuel than trying to store batteries for an unknown amount of time.

Derek

[PJ Rowland]

No Derek you make it electric - Charge the batteries once and leave them until its needed to fly.

That would be just as useful.......

[Derek Barry]

No Derek you make it electric - Charge the batteries once and leave them until its needed to fly.

That would be just as useful.......

From what I have heard, that is a really bad idea.

Derek

[john e. holliday]

We have not heard from Kenny yet or the other team members.   It would be great if there could be a RTF plane with engine.   How many flights would the pilot need to get it zeroed into his flying style.  I feel bad for Kenny and the team as there goes a chance at a podium appearance as a team.   But, things happen, let's pray that Kenny doesn't give up.

[RC Storick]

Well lets put it this way. What if Orestes crashed and he then borrowed a Yatsinko shark? Would it not be the same as he's already flying? Answer YEP

[Eric Viglione]

PJ - I think you are losing sight of the team medal chances...even with a good backup, Kenny could put the team within better reach even if his chance at personal Gold might be less than before. Didn't Richie go Gold with a hand-me down plane recently? Don't know what our medal chances are without a Jr anyway..., I'm fuzzy on their scoring. Either way, there's lots of reasons. I know if I spent all that money and time off work, even though I'd be devistated over the loss, I'd still like to take a crack at putting up some flights in front of those judges, even if it was with a loner backup.

EricV

Mark ; I get that.

The premise is sound. I'm certainly not going to speak for anyone else but myself, however I'd be surprised if my feelings aren't echoed by others.

The reality is ; Its making the best of a bad situation. I feel for Kenny - I really do, having just returned from an overseas contest, the reality of failure was ever present. What to do if I had a catastrophic event and how I deal with that was not far from my mind.

We talked for almost 1 hr about his plane, his expectations of Poland, the chance to represent USA and how excited he was to be putting his best foot forward, this news is awful. SIMPLY AWFUL. And I wouldn't wish this upon anyone.

I had issue with all of a sudden feeling that there was some sort of void that needed to be filled by basically saying ; Lets have a plan in place to ship a community built rental to be available to anyone who had failure due to misfortune just so they had something to fly and not sit and watch.

The POINT is : This is altruistic at best & impractical in concept, one must understand that fully.

[Kim Doherty]

Battery shapes and weights change constantly. I can no longer use the fuselage mold for ShockWave as the nose is too short since the battery we now use is much smaller and lighter. You can not charge a battery and just leave it. It could be kept at a storage charge for a while but... read the first point again.

You are allowed to process two models for competition although you must prove that you need to switch to your "B" model. If the spare model is not processed it can not be used in the competition. The owner and pilot of the model MUST process his own models. Models may not be shared or lent after processing. To make this practical you would need three spare models. This means someone must carry them and pay a rather steep extra, oversize baggage fee. Sometimes you need to rent a car and drive a long way. Anything other than a small car is quite expensive and room is at a premium.

This only works this time since Henk is not flying this model in the W/C and the accident occurred prior to processing at the W/C's. What would you do if it happened one hour after processing concluded?

You will not see many people with a backup model at the W/C. You can not possibly prepare to fly too different models let alone two models that you yourself built and trimmed. You are not there to take home a  participation ribbon.

While it is emotionally warming to see all the activity around obtaining another model, IMHO one model, properly prepared for the conditions is all that is required.

Kim.

[Tim Wescott]

but I'd be shocked who would want to fly such a plane under the pretense " Go overseas but when your model splatters all over the pavement you can fly this " and expect to have the same level of success.
 

If I went oversees as part of a team and my model splattered all over the pavement, I would fly anything that I thought had a chance of increasing my team's score, regardless of what it meant for my score, personally.

[Doug Moon]

I surprised by what I am reading.

If there is a will there is a way...  That is never more true in some cases.

I have recent direct experience with this sort of thing.  I splattered a plane in practice at the beginning of the week at the nationals in 2010.  My dad drove my back up plane from Dallas TX to Muncie IN the NEXT DAY!!  My mom mentioned to him I didn't have my back up after the crash and he said "I can take it to him."  And 4 hours later he was on the road.  Dallas to Muncie is about 1000 miles give or take 50 depending on how you go. 

When he brought me that plane I had only 25 flights on it prior and hadn't flown it for MONTHS!  It was not what I would call even a decent flying plane but it was a WHOLE HELL OF ALOT BETTER THAN RIDING THE PINE! 

We took the motor from the crash, which found out later had severaly damaged bearing, and put it in the back up plane. I had one day to get it ready then worked on it more as the week progressed and ended up second just 5 points off the eventual winner Billy Werwage taking his 5th Walker Trophy.

Where there is a will there is a way...

Derek has a great idea about the team Shark.  It would need to be flown a couple times a year to make sure its all good.  Then it would be sent over long before the contest and housed with a friend who is coming and then they can bring it along.  For a nice fee of course, dinner....vodka...what have you...

I think Nitro would be a better option as well. 

[Darkstar1]

Look at Howard's Landing gear. It's been changed for grass. Question for Howard is it the same gear turned around or is it a different one?

[Paul Walker]

Hey, that grass looks like a golf green compared to Bulgaria!!

[Bruce Perry]

I took two models to the Ukraine in 98 and two models to muncie in 04.  I didn't need either backup airplane thankfully.  I agree with the concept of having a spare plane but would suggest that it's the pilots plane. I get the need for spares and have been on teams where a spare, processed, plane would benefit.  Kim nailed it, a spare is pointless unless it's your own once processing closes.   I had a spare in muncie but couldn't make the change in time for next round. I also couldn't lend it to my team member as it was processed for my use only.   

Gallant idea to have a spare, practically, tough to justify the expense.

On the subject of grass; that's ludicrous!  The organizers should again hang their head in shame!!!!  There are thousands of dollars being spent to get various teams to this event the VERY least they could expect is a decent site!!  However, I also know this is typical not unusual.....

Good luck to all competitors! 

Bruce

[PJ Rowland]

"Kim nailed it, a spare is pointless "

What was my point then ?

I was trying to take the emotion out of it and talk about it from a practical standpoint.

Also there seems to be plenty of people missing the point I was making : If I crashed I'd want to fly a fence with an engine on the front just to be able to fly if I could; more so than sitting in the side line.  I get the team standings point of the Worlds also.

I don't think any of us would like to see someone NOT fly - and I'd do what I could to help any flyer - thats just an aeromodellers spirit.

My point was the apparent call to arms for there to be a Team USA Rental built / stored / trimmed plane for use at World Championships contests because this has happened " numerous times..."



I have 2 issues with this :

1: It suggests that those whom qualified for worlds teams have been unprepared and should have either had a backup or a better prepared model that wasn't going to suffer hardware failure.

2: That something must be done to help out these poor souls not capable of stunt competence by giving them a community built rental.


THIS THREAD IS INSULTING !


Going overseas to compete is REALLY HARD.
Throwing your plane in the back your Honda to travel down to your local field isn't the same as getting on a plane.

There are countless issues to overcome ;

* Limited space and weight restrictions
* The ability to pack for spares is reduced.


*Forced to build a take apart model - For some this is something that they must do for the 1st time at one stage -
*not EVERYONE builds take apart models for regular stunt use. Its complex and adds another factor to your program.

Travel itself :

*Plane box : must be light , well built, strong, easy to carry, and protect the model 100% - This MUST be built.

*Model tool box / regular clothes / cameras etc. Try carrying all this with just 1 pair of hands. Or on a trolley.

* Now add in the stress of getting through TSA

* airport security

* catching connecting flights

* getting boarding passes

* finding a suitable rental car,

What if your plane box takes a wrong flight ? Or cannot be included on your domestic leg and you have to come back 6 hours later to the airport after already being on a plane for 30 + hours..

* Getting correct fuel for your engine so it performs at its best ?

* Have you see the Charging stations some of the electric guys use ? Airport security LOVE those....  Sorry what was your name sir ? Kaczynski ?

* How about safety of the model box itself ? These guys throw your plane box onto the belt up to the plane : IVE SEEN IT FROM MY WINDOW ! Pack and prepare for anything.

Now you get to the country itself :

* You need to trim out for new conditions

* Adjust to different horizons

* Deal with the US OPEN style rough style of grass - Have you built 2 sets of wheels

* Or adapt to the flying field conditions as best you can . For example Muncie is Tarmac and you need time to get used to practice off tarmac.

* How about language barrier

* Hotel accommodation

* finding the field, or finding a practice site

* Driving on the other side of the road

* Driving an car different to your own

* Packing the plane into that car day after day without bumping it.

Not to mention the stress of representing your country.

Ive just listed 25 things that you never have to consider when your having your Sunday fun flight with your buddies.


Now to make one simple mistake ,have one oversight is easy to do, and it has NOTHING to do with not being prepared.

 

[Doug Moon]

PJ,

There is absolutely no doubt that traveling over seas to fly in a contest, let alone the one where you represent your country, is more than difficult, time consuming, and DAMN EXPENSIVE.

I don't think anyone on this thread is belittling the effort it takes to do such a thing.  In fact every year I am simply amazed at the people who travel so far to come to the US nats.  Kaz seems to be a regular and then onto the WCs as well.  You have done it twice now!!  Same for Joe Parisi!  And many others too.

I don't think this thread is meant as an insult to anyone.  Its simply a discussion as to what someone or a team could do to try to be prepared if this should happen. 

I personally have never been involved in the processing of planes at the FAI so I am not familar with it.  Except when I tried out for the team that Derek was on.  I am also certain if the team were to try to have a communal plane on hand they would make sure such an item would be legal under the rules before forking over the dough to do such a thing.  From the sounds of it this would not be a viable option as you have to process the plane to your self from the get go.  But at the same time if you blow it before the processing then you could process in the back up and off you go.  Right?

That seems to be the very thing they are gonna do if the Dutch get a plane to Kenny before the contest starts.... 

I don't see why you are insulted by people trying think of ways to be prepared....Am I missing something?

[bob whitney]

 try building a box to carry 3 F2C team racers and keep it under 50 LBS then try and convince the powers to be that that funny looking empty refueling can is safe to take on the plane ,  then figure out how to get a gallon of either,caster and kerosene to where ever u are going.  i think the Speed guys have it the easiest

[Chris_Rud]

I was the Junior representative in 2006 and I had a very similar problem as Kenny. After the 3rd qualify round Dave Fitzgerald and I were practicing at the paved practice circle and he was helping me play around with props. After a few props he handed me one and I put it on the plane... little did I know that the prop was drilled out for a large shaft. I should have noticed but I just didn't. The plane vibrated so bad that at the top of the outside loops I lost my elevator. I gave it full down and the flaps prevented the plane from being totaled. I skidded in upside-down took off the canopy and rudder. It was a terrible moment. Thanks to everyone on the team, everyone helped me through the night and we got the plane ready for the final round of qualifying. Happy-ish ending.

I support the shared backup even with the limitation after processing. There are plenty of other issues that can arise before processing.... Lost planes being the main one. And if no-one has an issue I say we play rock paper scissors for one of the three to claim it. At least its useful to someone. If we do decide to do it I would contribute as much as a 26 year old can 

The last thing I would vote to go IC only because almost every high level competitor has pretty extensive knowledge with IC and not everyone has a real handle on electric. Just a thought.

-Chris

[Bruce Perry]

PJ

Number 26. Pay off corrupt customs official so they release your models to you!  Or in our case have the contest "organizer" speak to customs on your behalf...... Only a $1500 "duty" fee for importation ...

See you in Oz !

B

[PJ Rowland]

Doug :

My issue was nothing more than the suggestion of a backup to solve a problem that appears to be numerous.

" Thinking back there have been several times when USA team members have had to scramble to compete in the WC’s " - Initial quote

I took exception that a Plan B is needed to help out those who make the team and have problems being able to compete.

The point I wanted to make was : This concept although great in theory, is difficult in practice. Instead of jumping up and down saying we need to donate money and get something organized quickly, what to build, what to design, what ENGINE to use...  etc.  Perhaps understanding as to how something like this can happen in the first place, education not knee jerking.

I've got no problem with having a backup of any kind....  but in reality this is not practical, would be difficult to implement and I think the most critical factor : THE COST.

People complain about spending $10 - $20 on a banquet dinner for the Nats... I can't see how your going to get people to pay for the development / maintenance / shipping / trimming / building / of a plane that would AT BEST ; only be used every 2 years ( W/CH Cycle ) and may sit dormant for 6 + Years before it was ever used for its initial purpose.

I mean is anyone actually THINKING about the logistics of it ?   - Seems madness.

[Doug Moon]

Doug :

My issue was nothing more than the suggestion of a backup to solve a problem that appears to be numerous.

" Thinking back there have been several times when USA team members have had to scramble to compete in the WC’s " - Initial quote

I took exception that a Plan B is needed to help out those who make the team and have problems being able to compete.

The point I wanted to make was : This concept although great in theory, is difficult in practice. Instead of jumping up and down saying we need to donate money and get something organized quickly, what to build, what to design, what ENGINE to use...  etc.  Perhaps understanding as to how something like this can happen in the first place, education not knee jerking.

I've got no problem with having a backup of any kind....  but in reality this is not practical, would be difficult to implement and I think the most critical factor : THE COST.

People complain about spending $10 - $20 on a banquet dinner for the Nats... I can't see how your going to get people to pay for the development / maintenance / shipping / trimming / building / of a plane that would AT BEST ; only be used every 2 years ( W/CH Cycle ) and may sit dormant for 6 + Years before it was ever used for its initial purpose.

I mean is anyone actually THINKING about the logistics of it ?   - Seems madness.

You are right the cost of having a backup would not seem to make sense for a plane that would be rarely used.  Then again there are several guys around with used take apart planes hanging on the wall.  Maybe with some persuasion one could be donated for team back up WAY ahead of time.  So the cost of the model is little to nil.  The rest is just figuring out how to tote it around with the team for 8000 miles.  Steve has a Kaz BM Comp and its box is really quite small for what comes out it.

The FAI pattern fliers processed two planes a piece at this years nats.  Not all of them did but I know after talking with a few of them some did.  Their cost to participate and be near or at the top of their game dwarfs anything we do.

Either way it sucks for Kenny.  And it will be really cool if the dutch have a plane he can process and get some practice with.  He is a good flier and modeler it wont take long for him to trim it to his liking. 

[Russell Bond]

Actually you CAN get a back up model processed that is not owned by you after the comp has started so long as the original owner had not processed it in his name.
We did an "emergency" processing on the field when my team mate Peter Anglberger pranged his plane in the 1st round of the World's in Bulgaria.
I had not processed my spare plane in my name so he was able to use it.
They are not worried about the FAI number being wrong but apparently it had to have the country code (AUS) on it.
So a spare back up plane is definitely feasible.
All you need is a supporter to take it with them on the plane as checked luggage.
Also it would be better electric because you CAN take lipos on the plane as carry on luggage and the airlines certainly aren't worried about electric planes in the hold so long as there are no batteries with it.
Some people have to take their IC motors (and tanks) out of the plane to transport it.
The Japanese did this when they went to Bulgaria and then their luggage was promptly lost!!
Planes arrived with no motors! Bumma!

[PJ Rowland]

Some people have to take their IC motors (and tanks) out of the plane to transport it.
The Japanese did this when they went to Bulgaria and then their luggage was promptly lost!!
Planes arrived with no motors! Bumma!



I didn't when I went overseas.  Saran wrapped then entire plane as if it was shrink wrapped brand new. No problems at all. Didn't even touch the needle ! 

[Dennis Adamisin]

The ongoing story of the Dutch Team & Henk deJoung (sp?) coming to Kenny's aid is very gratifying, and I am sure Kenny will make the best of his second chance.  THANK YOU HENK!

The basic assumption is that a team member in Kenny's predicament would have flown anything available in order to participate and contribute to Team scores.  However its possible not everyone would feel that way.  Prepare & prevent beats repair & repent.

Thanks all for the comments so far, especialy those folks sharing their experiences transporting models and participating in the WC.  Russell, your story about being able to process a back-up after the comp began - that answers a question I had in the back of my mind. 

A couple thngs to add to the "wish list".  The back-up should be set-up with bad field landing gear (assumes any emergency practice site will be bad) There should be a set of lines & handle in the box - in case THOSE items are also lost!  If electric it should have a generous battery compartment to accomodate any number of form factors.  If IC then it should be capable of running on any fuel better than swamp water.   

[Dave_Trible]

I would (of course) lean to IC for best long term storage and as mentioned above a good general understanding by most anyone who would need to use it.  Since it might have to run on swamp water or warm beer and the pilot might not have time or recent experience with pipes and carbon props for a fast field tune then a muffled .60 would seem most practical.  Might not be the hottest setup going but this is about staying in the game in a pinch in the least complicated way.  Yes I guess something like a Shark package but I'd think we can keep it USA and not have such a price tag.  I have that Enya .60 ....and a Fox Eagle .60 c/ l conversion....  Hmm....

Dave

[PerttiMe]

The ongoing story of the Dutch Team & Henk deJoung (sp?) coming to Kenny's aid is very gratifying, and I am sure Kenny will make the best of his second chance.  THANK YOU HENK!

Apparently, he's got a couple of other offers too, and has been flying Kaz Minato's. Perhaps it best matches what he is used to?

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,36090.msg369041.html#msg369041

[Eric Viglione]

"Kim nailed it, a spare is pointless "

What was my point then ? <snip>

I think we all get your point... I think our point is we are all gutted for Kenny, and have no power to help him at the moment, so have to content ourselves with arm chair QB'ing the situation from back home.

Nothing like a highly motivated mob mentality to get something done in a hurry, right or wrong, heh. We could always go burn some couch's in the street, hit a foot-locker, and flip over some cars if you prefer, LOL!

You will note that even though some of us will gripe about the $35 cost of something we perceive as substandard, these same people usually are also the first in-line to donate to a cause they believe in.

In life, you will see a lot of odd things... like usually it's the poorest people who dig the deepest and donate the most percentage of their meager means, even out of their needs, for a cause they believe in. The "widow's mite" as the story goes.

It could be a cultural thing too I guess. Can do spirit and all that goes with it. Even in our literature... Lensmen always go-in (a favorite quote from old 1930's scifi book). Maybe naive at times, I know, but I've always felt it is what makes some people special.

When I saw Dougs dad bring his plane all the way from Texas, it just about made a grown man cry (ok, maybe several grown men). Move heaven and earth for someone, even if it turns out to be a meaningless gesture just to let them know you care. (and in this case Doug's second place finish show's it wasn't meaningless at all!)

I don't think a single person here is pointing fingers at anyone for lack of anything. The only finger pointing might be if we don't at least try looking into the possibilities of what can be done within reason, and it happens again.

Life, you only get to do it once, regrets suck.
EricV

[Doug Moon]

Bravo Eric, Bravo!!!!

[RC Storick]

I may be overreaching here but I think the power of Stunt Hangar had a great influence in resolving Kenny's issue. I am glad people are avid readers here and I am glad there were those in a position to help in time. The Stunt community rallying together to help out a competitor shows the true meaning of sportsmanship.

[Dave_Trible]

Indeed Robert!  I'll throw this out there ... I built this concept take-apart a few years ago.  It flies pretty well.  Set up now for a RO Jett .61/ pipe ( and could stay that way) or can be converted to the Eagle.  If the interest is there I would refinish it,  maybe put on a straight taper tail and some other cosmetics and call it the back up.  Any thoughts?

Dave

[Dave_Trible]

...

[Brett Buck]

Some people have to take their IC motors (and tanks) out of the plane to transport it.
The Japanese did this when they went to Bulgaria and then their luggage was promptly lost!!
Planes arrived with no motors! Bumma!



I didn't when I went overseas.  Saran wrapped then entire plane as if it was shrink wrapped brand new. No problems at all. Didn't even touch the needle ! 

    That can be an issue. I was pulled off the plane when going to the 99 Team Trials because there is an FAR against transporting "engines that have had fuel in them". This is a real FAA rule. There are caveats elsewhere in the FARs for acceptable "passivating agents" but unless they read this separate section you can easily get kicked off the flight. It's entirely in the hands of the guys who happen to show up for work at the airport that day, no amount of pre-coordination will make any difference. That's why even United Airlines Captain David Fitzgerald (who found the caveats in the FARs) still drives to contests.

    Brett

[Doug Moon]

Some people have to take their IC motors (and tanks) out of the plane to transport it.
The Japanese did this when they went to Bulgaria and then their luggage was promptly lost!!
Planes arrived with no motors! Bumma!



I didn't when I went overseas.  Saran wrapped then entire plane as if it was shrink wrapped brand new. No problems at all. Didn't even touch the needle ! 

Saran Wrapped the plane? Is there a reason for wrapping it?

[Brett Buck]

Saran Wrapped the plane? Is there a reason for wrapping it?

   Luggage sniffers, presumably.

    Brett

[PJ Rowland]

Its to bypass the swab test.

Believe it or not - Nitromethane is detectable as an explosive material - and that can fail the test. Despite cleaning the plane down as best as one can - the chances of removing 100% of it from the airframe ( Non electric ) is impossible IMHO.

Wrapping it seals any hint of the chemical trace and will pass the swab test every time. - Plus makes it look like your transporting something NEW.

Explosives trace detection is technology used at security checkpoints around the country to screen baggage and passengers for traces of explosives. Officers may swab a piece of carry-on or checked baggage or a passenger’s hands and then place the swab inside the ETD unit to analyze it for the presence of potential explosive residue.



Well said Eric I agree with everything you said ; possible I over-reacted to a situation. Just felt so bad for Kenny - by the sounds of it he is making the best of a bad situation and thats all we can wish for as a great resolution. Go Team USA !

( Yes I'm an AMA member so I can cheer the USA Team and not feel guilty ! HHAHHA )

[Tim Wescott]

In a world where we had more resources, we could just ask at least one of the team alternates to attend the contest with their airplane.  Not only does this cover the situation that Kenny is in (assuming the loan of the plane), but in the event that one of the top three gets run over by a beer truck in-country, the alternate will be right there to step into his shoes.

[55chevr]

If I understand a previously posted statement, it was that there is a lot of personal expense involved in being on the US team.  An alternate would have to endure the expense and than not fly if there is no mishap.

[Tim Wescott]

If I understand a previously posted statement, it was that there is a lot of personal expense involved in being on the US team.  An alternate would have to endure the expense and than not fly if there is no mishap.

Yes, that's why my comment about a world where we had more resources.  Few of us can just blithely traipse around the globe, with airplanes, to warm the bench.