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Author Topic: More confused than ever  (Read 2657 times)

Offline Keith Spriggs

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More confused than ever
« on: December 25, 2006, 10:57:53 PM »
I had planned on asking what I should but on the bare wood before I put MonoKote on a model. (the last model I did had $ 1.00 a yard silk on it with Aero Gloss dope).

I thought I was going to get my answer without asking , but I have read and reared the "BalsaRite Carbon fiber and Monte" thread but it only left me more confused. The plane I am building will be for sport and not for show, but I would like it to look presentable.  I have never used MonoKote, however I have the installation video. It doesn't mention doing anything to the wood, but I don't want the grain to show thru.

Suggestion please.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2006, 11:18:40 PM »
Hmmm. well, when I've used monokote, I just sand, vacuum, wipe with a tack cloth and put it on.  No special prep.
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Offline Leester

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2006, 11:38:04 PM »
What Randy said and an extra set of hands help also. Good Luck and take your time it will look great. One thing I do (no extra hands) I have a swivel vice and protect the fusalage or whatever and put in the vice, that way at least it won't move while I'm trying to stretch and seal the covering.
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2006, 01:39:31 AM »
Keith,

What Randy said!

Over the past 30+ years I have tried all the preps and have always returned to the KIS method Randy uses.

Some people seem to like these prep products, but I have always found them to be more trouble than they are worth.

Like others have said, stretching helps. But some of the best MonoKote jobs I have ever seen use many cut up pieces to get the job done. The experts don't try to make one piece of material do everything. Their seams are almost undetectable, and no wrinkles. They seldom use any prep products, or holes in the balsa.

This is why the very good MonoKote video does not mention any of these products. They are not needed.

I highly recommend practicing on some scrap balsa. Also on a simple built up structure made from scrap. This will allow you to experiment with different heat settings without damaging your planes covering.

One item I have found very useful is the MonoKote glove, used with the heat gun. And also a small trim iron. The coverite brand irons are by far the best, and easiest to use.   
    http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=coverite&FVPROFIL=++&search=Go

Good luck, and KIS :-)
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Offline Keith Spriggs

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2006, 08:47:56 AM »
I wish it was always this easy for me to become "unconfused". I already have bought the Coverite irons that were mentioned. Maybe I can get my wife to help me if she has forgot about the time I said,"Here hold this nail while I get it started".

Thanks to all.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2006, 10:05:31 AM »
I wish it was always this easy for me to become "unconfused". I already have bought the Coverite irons that were mentioned. Maybe I can get my wife to help me if she has forgot about the time I said,"Here hold this nail while I get it started".

Thanks to all.

Maybe I can get my wife to help me if she has forgot about the time I said,"Here hold this nail while I get it started".

**) **) **)

Let's hope so!

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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2006, 10:59:14 AM »
Just to maybe add a little further clarification. The only reason I started the BalsaRite Carbon fiber thread was because I felt I needed more reinforcement on the nose of the Nobler than what Monokote over bare wood would provide. As has already been said normally you don't need to do anything except make sure the wood is clean and smooth.

Offline Leester

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2006, 11:13:38 AM »
Keith, If she hasn't forgotten be prepared  mw~ mw~ mw~
The tip on the heat gloves is a must with the heat gun, that sucker puts out some heat.
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Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2006, 12:28:43 PM »
Hi All,
I would like to add....Before I monocoat at least the day before I take a wet sponge and wipe the balsa not to remove dust but to actually wet the wood. The wetting of the wood causes the grain to rise in some areas. When dry I go over the whole thing with 400 grit sandpaper so that it's smooth to the touch everywhere. Blow off or tack off the dust and monocoat. I monocoat all the components before assembly. The tail, wing, stab, elevator, flaps, fuse etc. and then assemble and glue or epoxy in place. I prefer putting the monocoat down over bare wood. Make sure you use a sock and be careful to keep the iron flat to the work surface so the edge of the iron will not put grooves in the wood. Good luck.....Practice...Practice...Practice
 #^
« Last Edit: December 28, 2006, 11:00:29 AM by Greg L Bahrman »
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2006, 06:04:37 PM »
Kieth,

You may want to go over to the "Building Techniques" section, under "Monokote",  to see some hints on using this excellent covering material. There are also some useful hints on how to apply your trim.

Most of us are not able to duplicate the outstanding workmanship shown on Greg's beautiful Nobler, but like he said "..... practice .... !"  and you can get a very good looking model.  :-)
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Offline Keith Spriggs

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2006, 11:05:42 PM »
Once again thanks for all the good information.

Bob I did understand about your BalsaRite Carbon fiber thread actually I was confused long before that.

Greg I don't have enough time left to get as good as you are. The Nobler looks great.

Rudy I will check out the Building Techniques section. I should have thought of that.
Wetting the wood and resanding is also a great idea.

I am not sure if my wife has forgot about the "nail thing" or not. I ask her if she remembered and she didn't answer, just got one of them "moods". I guess I will never understand women.

Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2006, 12:48:56 PM »
<Greg I don't have enough time left to get as good as you are. The Nobler looks great.>

Keith,                 
I remember back when I did my first monocoat job. I hated the stuff and I told my friends that suggested I use it, that I thought it was designed to try the patience of mankind. After continued use it became a little less of a challenge and more fun. Still there little things to learn that can be only learned by doing. My first jobs looked like c##p. Don't try to do it all at once. Do the wing one day or even half and the stab another day etc. Then put it all together. It does require patience. If I can help e-mail me. Grins
« Last Edit: December 28, 2006, 11:02:18 AM by Greg L Bahrman »
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Offline Vincent Judd

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Re: More confused than ever
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2006, 02:17:16 PM »
Keith, you've already gotten some good advice from the guys.  I've been working with the plastic films for a few years now and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here.  Wonderful stuff, those films.  Is it as beautiful as a paint finish?  Well, it can be, but IMHO nothing beats a beautiful, hand rubbed clear finish.  However, if you live in a small house or apartment, have a less than understanding wife, small children, or maybe even neighbors who don't want to be subjected to the smells a paint finish produces, then film is the best way to go.  It won't get you in the front row at the Nats, but then my paint jobs wouldn't either.

Just a few thoughts as I'm writing.  Monokote, IMO, produces the most durable finish.  It's shinier (is that a word?), more resiliant and will withstand the sun's rays better than the other films.  It's also harder to apply.  On the other hand, Ultracote is easier to apply (takes less heat and generally shrinks better/easier), but is not as durable, and doesn't stand up well in the sunlight over time.  Monokote is easier to trim because you can use the Windex method to apply your trim.  Windex doesn't work with Ultrakote.

Tack, heat, stretch.  Tack, heat, stretch.  Practice.  What everyone else said.  You can do it with time and practice.  Nice thing is, if you don't like the piece you just put on, rip it off and start over.  Corners are definitely the hardest and take the most practice, but I'm not above cutting and pasting.  Been there, done that. 

As far as preparing the wood, I've never done anything.  I'm not saying that the time spent is not worth it, I've just never done it.  I'm going to try some Balsarite on my plywood pieces next time, the film seems to have trouble adhering well to plywood.  Just remember that a film finish is very similar to using paint.  If you can feel it, you'll see it.  Time spent sanding joints to make them perfect will be reflected in your finished product.  If you feel a ridge, you'll see a ridge-the film won't hide it.  Oh, I do take a tack rag and go over the entire airframe before covering it.

On big surfaces, such as wings, start in one corner, tack.  Go across the short side to the opposite corner, pull and tack.  Then go diagonally, and pull and tack.  Then do the other corner, now you have all four corners tacked.  Now go to the middle and gently pull and tack, then opposite that.  Gradually go around the entire surface pulling and tacking until it's as tight and smooth as you can get it.  If you get a wrinkle, pull it up and restretch.  Gradually go around the entire surface pulling and tacking until it's as tight and smooth as you can get it.  Work slowly and carefully.  Once the entire perimeter is sealed use the heat gun and gradually shrink it.  I like to start in the middle and work out to each corner.  Once you're happy with how it looks, take the iron and go back and do all the cap strips.  By sealing the covering to each rib, you'll eliminate that "drumming" sound that is sometimes there with a film finish.  On small surfaces such as flaps, sometimes when you put the film on one surface, it tends to warp.  Don't panic-in most cases, doing the other side will straighten things out.   If not, just carefully apply heat until the warp is gone.

Do the bottom surfaces first, then the top.  The top overlaps the bottom always.  Make your seams on the fuselage so that fuel won't get into them by working from the rear to the front.  Overlaps should always be toward the rear.

A good covering iron is key.  I like the Coverite iron myself.  Save your money from buying those stupid, overpriced "iron socks".   Just take an old cotton pillowcase and cut it up into small squares.  You don't even need to wrap the square around the iron, just set it on the film and move it where you need it.  Don't work without the cotton squares, you will eventually scratch the film.  One pillowcase will last for many airplanes.  One common mistake is to have the iron too hot.  Practice on some scrap pieces of balsa to get the temperature correct.  Too much heat will ruin the film.  Remember to use the cotton squares when you're setting the temperature as you will need a little more heat.  You want to use the least amount of heat that you can.

I've attached a few photos of some of my planes.  These are all Monokote finishes.  Sharp observers will notice that they don't have leadouts.  Yes, I confess, I also fly on the "dark side" where leadouts are not necessary.  I have just recently returned to Control Line after much prodding by some of my R/C buddies who started in the hobby many years ago flying C/L and wanted to see me fly one of my stunt ships.   My flights are usually accompanied by comments such as "Wow, I didn't know people still did that!"  Or the usual, "Don't you get real dizzy?".  It's kind of funny.  They are very supportive however, and now I have a nice field to fly C/L from. 

Sorry to ramble so much guys.  I love this forum-lots of fun and great advice. 

Have fun Keith, and give the film a try.  You'll get the hang of it in no time.


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