Shipping Costs

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

A couple of thoughts about shipping costs.

First, the current USPS rates for small packages are attached.  While the prices USPS charges are high, and have gone up a lot, a small item does not cost anywhere near $14 or $17 to ship.  For items less than 14 ounces, the cost is about $4 to $6, as shown in the attached current chart.  The charge is less if you use a negotiated discount, such as shipping via eBay.  I ship a lot and pay $3.22 on a routine basis.  In practice, many of our favorite vendors will adjust charges closer to actual, on a case by case basis.

Second, there are a number of factors that influence rates higher.  Ever noticed that when you order a small part via e-Packet service China, the price you pay is less than the cost of the postage alone, if postage is purchased in the USA?  The reason for this is that the China rate is set by, wait for it, the United Nations.  The USA and a number of other nations entered into an agreement that the UN gets the say-so as to rates, influenced by the economic status of the sending nation.  The net effect is that the playing field is not level, that makers and shippers in the USA can not compete in the market, even if their cost of goods is zero.

To compensate for the low rates China pays to use USPS, the rates for USA customers are set high.  The same one ounce letter containing a small, thick item that cost $0.05 in 1967 now costs $3.80 or more, as shown in the attached chart.  That is basically 100x more expensive.  Have USA wages risen 100x in that same period?  Not really.  On the lower rungs of the wage ladder, such as fast food labor, 1967 wages were about $2 / hour, now about $8 / hour.  Eight over two doesn't yield one hundred.

Peter

[Gerald Arana]

A couple of thoughts about shipping costs.

First, the current USPS rates for small packages are attached.  While the prices USPS charges are high, and have gone up a lot, a small item does not cost anywhere near $14 or $17 to ship.  For items less than 14 ounces, the cost is about $4 to $6, as shown in the attached current chart.  The charge is less if you use a negotiated discount, such as shipping via eBay.  I ship a lot and pay $3.22 on a routine basis.  In practice, many of our favorite vendors will adjust charges closer to actual, on a case by case basis.

Second, there are a number of factors that influence rates higher.  Ever noticed that when you order a small part via e-Packet service China, the price you pay is less than the cost of the postage alone, if postage is purchased in the USA?  The reason for this is that the China rate is set by, wait for it, the United Nations.  The USA and a number of other nations entered into an agreement that the UN gets the say-so as to rates, influenced by the economic status of the sending nation.  The net effect is that the playing field is not level, that makers and shippers in the USA can not compete in the market, even if their cost of goods is zero.

To compensate for the low rates China pays to use USPS, the rates for USA customers are set high.  The same one ounce letter containing a small, thick item that cost $0.05 in 1967 now costs $3.80 or more, as shown in the attached chart.  That is basically 100x more expensive.  Have USA wages risen 100x in that same period?  Not really.  On the lower rungs of the wage ladder, such as fast food labor, 1967 wages were about $2 / hour, now about $8 / hour.  Eight over two doesn't yield one hundred.

Peter

Peter, What you are missing is the "HIGH" inflation rate that no one is talking about.

I'm the chief cook and bottle washer in our house and when I go shopping (Almost every day) I notice that prices are continually going UP! 

Does anybody talk about it? "L no.

Jerry

PS: I forgot to mention the "Minimum" wage........all that does is raise prices for the rest of us!

[Dennis Moritz]

Republicans have as well done what they can to cash strap the Post Office in different ways. Aim is to make the privatization of deliveries a monetary cash in for big businesses. Perhaps some one can outline the retirement escrow manipulation formulated years back. A formulation created to tie up Postal Service cash. This done, even though the PO has traditionally paid its way.

I understand why we who personally ship sold items ask for something like a flat 10$ fee. Our time is worth a few bucks.


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[Brett Buck]

This done, even though the PO has traditionally paid its way.

   The Post Office has been growing broke for 50+years, it is incessantly bailed out by the government. So much for more of Dennis' "truth" - about as reliable as anything else he has to say.

     Brett

[Fredvon4]

well dang it Dennis your ignorance is absolutely astounding when it comes to trying to blame every thing on conservatives or republicans with your drive by BS....you will kindly provide a few CITATIONS OF LAW M GOOD MAN...beware I know a little bit and can easily assert the billions per year USPS loses are directly related to your democratic bureaucratic meddling and forced pre pay of pensions....not at all a republican bill or law...your turn

[Dick Pacini]

I have sold a fair share of stuff here and shipping costs are almost prohibitive on small items.  Often I would offer free shipping to make a sale and was actually upside down on one sold item because I didn't research the cost.  I have the UPS.Com software on my computer and that is bullet proof as long as you have a UPS qualified scale.  I print my own shipping labels and everything is prepaid through my credit card All I have to do is drop the package off at the PO and walk out.

Click n Ship is a great tool for Flat Rate boxes, which are free at the PO.  Basically, if it fits, it ships Flat Rate.  No surprises.  Often times, Flat Rate is cheaper than 1st class when weight works against you. 

[Dennis Moritz]

Perhaps your Conservative Math can close Trump’s doubling of the US deficit with his welfare tax relief for the super rich. Now that this Candy that hyped the market has cratered no doubt you will be doubling down on the Lemming logic of Rush and the paid for propagandists. Anyone who agrees with Trump and touts his logical brain power and outlook is a lemming in my view. Lemming definition: a person who unthinkingly joins a mass movement, especially a headlong rush to destruction. It’s a rodent that resembles a mouse. Keep on squeaking.



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[Fredvon4]

typical of you to dodge the challenge...you asserted republicans are responsible for a losing bureaucracy (USPS) and when challenged, now want to discuss Trump (by the way your democrats voted yea!) tax law changes.....

[Dennis Moritz]

Right. Bless your heart too. Lemming.


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[Dennis Moritz]

I guess you guys appreciate the entrepreneurial genius of Jeff Bezos. Order stuff get it that night or next morning. Bar code even allows you to track truck. Oh. Wait. T and Freedom Fighter Rush don’t like him.


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[FLOYD CARTER]

Too bad the USPS issue (and also FedEX and UPS) has already degraded into slings and arrows aimed at Democrats and Republicans (in equal amounts).

[Dennis Moritz]

Damn. You made me look this up. Ten minutes owed.

“So why is the USPS struggling financially?

A lot of people point to the rise of email, as well as private competitors like FedEx. Certainly, all those things contribute to USPS's problems. But what's really dragging down the Postal Service is something else entirely.

Namely, the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006.

Passed by a Republican-led Congress and signed into law by President George W. Bush, the PAEA gave the Postal Service new accounting and funding rules for its retiree pension and health benefits. Up until 2006, the USPS funded those obligations on a pay-as-you-go-basis, pulling out of its pension fund and adding to it as retirees' costs came in. But the PAEA required the Postal Service to calculate all of its likely pension costs over the next 75 years, and then sock away enough money between 2007 and 2016 to cover most of them.

This is one of those ideas that sounds responsible on the surface but is actually pretty nuts.

Consider your average 30-year mortgage. What if you had to set aside a few hundred thousand dollars right now, enough to pay the whole thing, even if you were still going to make payments over 30 years? No one would ever take out a mortgage. That's the whole point: the costs only come in over time, and the income you use to pay them comes in over time as well. It works exactly the same for retiree pensions and benefit funds. Which is why, as economist Dean Baker pointed out to Congress, pretty much no one else does what the PAEA demanded of the Postal Service.

Meeting Congress' arbitrary mandate required putting away an extra $5.6 billion per year. "It is equivalent to imposing a tax of 8 percent on the Postal Service's revenue," Baker said. "There are few businesses that would be able to survive if they were suddenly required to pay an 8 percent tax from which their competitors were exempted."

Eventually, the burden became too great, and the USPS began defaulting on the PAEA payments in 2012. But the damage was done. The Postal Service lost $62.4 billion between 2007 and 2016, and its own Inspector General attributed $54.8 billion of that to prefunding retiree benefits. Without the PAEA, the Postal Service wouldn't be doing stellar. (Though you could plausibly blame many of its remaining struggles on the Great Recession.) But it probably would've spent at least part of the last decade making comfortable profits.

"The Postal Service's $15 billion debt is a direct result of the mandate," the Inspector General wrote in 2015. "This requirement has deprived the Postal Service of the opportunity to invest in capital projects and research and development."

In fact, it gets worse. The PAEA also required the Postal Service to invest its retiree funds exclusively in government bonds. Once again, this is a rather unusual practice. While it mitigates risk, it's also a great way to earn really low returns. Then the USPS has to set aside even more money to achieve the same benefit level. Baker calculated that just getting rid of this requirement could make the Postal Service profitable again.”

[Dick Pacini]

I thought politics on this forum were a no-no.

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

Dick,

You're right that folks did start name-calling and the like, in addition to the actual facts, like the postal rate chart, the mention of the postal accounting act and the international rate treaty.

The international postal union that sets the rates, now part of the UN, is about twice as old as the UN.  While it is true that the decision to stick with the treaty is political, the current situation is that the USA participates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union

Peter

[Howard Rush]

T and Freedom Fighter Rush don’t like him.

You leave me out of this. 

[BYU]

I thought politics on this forum were a no-no.

Only if they are Liberal

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"

[Dennis Leonhardi]

   The Post Office has been growing broke for 50+years, it is incessantly bailed out by the government. So much for more of Dennis' "truth" - about as reliable as anything else he has to say.

     Brett

The ignorance of Mr. Moritz is almost as astounding as his lack of civility.  He probably believes his name-calling is an intelligent form of debate.  Now, if he can just get some grasp of accrual accounting …


Dennis

[Dennis Moritz]

I understand Brilliant Brett’s (Mr  FP 20) point by point analysis of the article I quoted is illuminating. Not.

Civility. Lack of civility. What do you mean? Have I questioned Brett’s stalking my every post? (kissy kissy) Did I question why Conservatives morbidly fear the female gender? Did I question the mental stability and basic human empathy and judgement of Conservatives for their knee jerk following of a Criminal Sociopath who time and again shows himself in public to be exactly who he is? No. I called them lemmings. Mouse like rodents who follow each other face to rump over a cliff. Not a single word your mother would cross out.


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[John Lindberg]

You need help, Dennis, maybe see a Priest or something! 

[Mike Griffin]

Dennis, you couldn't carry Brett's jock.

Mike

[john e. holliday]

If only the USPS would charge these people that keep sending trash mail as much as they charge the average citizen.  At least 90% of my received mail is trash.  Yes it goes in the recycle barrel.

[Dennis Leonhardi]

When all is said and done, the USPS does a remarkable job at reasonable cost.  I've shipped many thousands of packages all over the world in the last 20+ years, and I can only recall 2 or 3 lost packages plus a claim (?) that an engine never arrived in the Ukraine.

Consider the Service is obligated to deliver virtually anywhere, whereas services like UPS are more selective - and charge a premium for delivering to residential addresses versus business addresses.  USPS makes no such distinction.

In recent years we've seen a major shift in the delivery of many retail items and prescription drugs, for example.  Are you aware that large volume shippers - such as Amazon - in many cases get shipments to a postal center, using their own or contracted services, and then rely on postal carriers to make residential deliveries?  In many cases that combination offers the best of both worlds - fast service at a reasonable cost.  I'm betting the cost of "lost" shipments is very low.

We're in a townhouse development and can pretty much count on seeing a USPS LLV (vehicle) even on Sundays.  I really appreciate the services available!


Dennis

[Dennis Leonhardi]

You need help, Dennis, maybe see a Priest or something! 

Yes, Dennis, you're an idiot but we are concerned about you!  Ultra Liberals like you lack the capacity to reason, we have compassion and hold out hope for you …  Do you need help paying for meds?


Dennis

[Joe Ed Pederson]

If only the USPS would charge these people that keep sending trash mail as much as they charge the average citizen.  At least 90% of my received mail is trash.  Yes it goes in the recycle barrel.

John,

I can't argue the junk mailers might be charged more, but on the other hand, I thank God for all the trash mail.   Sure, it's a pain to have to recycle it, but if there was no junk mail to bring in whatever they have to pay the post office, a regular stamp would cost us who knows what.     

Always in your debt for the Francherized Twister you gave me.  I finally retired it after breaking the fuselage in half the third time.  I may salvage the wing out of the fuselage if I can cut it out cleanly enough.

Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO

[Dennis Leonhardi]

John,

I can't argue the junk mailers might be charged more, but on the other hand, I thank God for all the trash mail.   Sure, it's a pain to have to recycle it, but if there was no junk mail to bring in whatever they have to pay the post office, a regular stamp would cost us who knows what.  …

Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO

Exactly Joe.  Many years of public and private accounting here.  In public accounting firms, we were always grateful for the small, monthly accounts we termed "bread and butter accounts".  They kept the heat and lights on. 

As a former accountant, general manager of a publishing firm that mailed that "trash mail", and as a former substitute mail carrier, I understand completely.

John, the most painstaking and time-consuming job I had as a carrier was sorting the mail.  Each carrier typically has a "kiosk" with bins for each street address on his route.  Imagine taking several bags of mail and sorting it by street address - long before you begin delivery.  It took me hours. 

Now, grab that "trash" mail and put it in your LLV (Long Life Vehicle).  No need to sort - you simply pull one off the pile at each address.

You say it came with your street address?  Then the mailer delivered it to the post office, literally completely sorted - perhaps even bundled by 5-digit zip code, and then sorted by 10 digit zip code (xxxxx-xxxx) within the bundle.

As in so many cases, Labor is the costly element.  The bulk mailer has eliminated the need for much.


Dennis

PS: I could deliver thousands of pieces of bulk mail in the time it took me to sort hundreds of letters ...

[Jim Carter]

If only the USPS would charge these people that keep sending trash mail as much as they charge the average citizen.  At least 90% of my received mail is trash.  Yes it goes in the recycle barrel.

Ditto!!

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

The original point is that it does not cost $14 to mail a set of wheel collars to finish a project.  Each vendor has their niche, and some cater to the small order, as in the attached image.

I do have to comment regarding USPS carrier sorting.  It has changed dramatically, as evidenced in the video linked below.  The video is short enough to watch, but summarizes in the last sentence at the end:  For the carrier, they now load and go in the morning.

[Dan McEntee]

    When I worked in the printing business, we did a lot of direct mail printing and shipping. From a rol of paper, printed, folded, cut and printed with mailing address and postage all in one operation some times. Most often, items were printed, then as they were getting bound, they were ink jet printed and town sorted by zip code, and then bundled, bagged or put into trays and loaded on skids. All the while this is going on, and person from the USPS is sitting on his duff in the office or lunch room, and as some sort of inspector, has the power to OK or eject a whole run, depending on his mood. If accepted, it is then loaded onto one of their long trailers. You see them in the video backed up to the docks. Did you notice how empty they were? Most of those trailers that you see going up and down the highway are mostly air. They will not stack pallets in any way or form, so if you can get 18 pallets on a trailer set next to each other, and some pallets have on one or two bags or bundles on it. They may travel coast to coast that way! Nothing in the video can explain the damaged packages I have received, like the ones that have obviously been tampered with by postal employees. Nothing in the sorting video can explain how the ends of envelopes get neatly slit open so someone can check if that thick thing inside is a gift card or not.I have VERY little faith and respect for the USPS. I could go on and on!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Dennis Leonhardi]

The original point is that it does not cost $14 to mail a set of wheel collars to finish a project.  Each vendor has their niche, and some cater to the small order, as in the attached image.

I do have to comment regarding USPS carrier sorting.  It has changed dramatically, as evidenced in the video linked below.  The video is short enough to watch, but summarizes in the last sentence at the end:  For the carrier, they now load and go in the morning.

Interesting video Peter, I didn't realize the pre-sorting was so widely done now.  In our town, the city carriers are no longer allowed to sort at the office, but rural carriers have a choice.  Our own carrier has been at it for 17 years, and does both types of routes.  She still much prefers to sort at the office.

There is still a fair amount of unsorted mail, magazines and similar perhaps being the biggest pain.  And, of the sorted "letters", she reports typically finding 3 or 4 a day out of order, sometimes requiring her to go back.  Still, it's amazing.

Another major change is the volume of packages.  She estimated it averaged 40 per day in her early years, now it's about 160 per day.

I for one am really grateful for the service USPS provides.  FedEx and UPS are quite good here, but FedEx especially was a real nightmare when I lived in NC.  And both are definitely more expensive than USPS.

With regard to shipping charges by vendors: some are much more geared to mailing than others.  Ya gotta pay the bills somehow, I always consider the delivered price to be my real cost.


Dennis