Adjustable Leadouts

[Allen Eshleman]

I have little experience with adjustable leadouts.

I have a Banshee/LA 40 which has them.  It looses tension as I go up or into maneuvers.  Pull alright flying level.

What could I do with the leadouts that might help?

What else could I do?

I have a Shark 402 that has the same problem. 

What recommendations do you have.  Also has adjustable leadouts.

Thanks ahead of time.

[Tony Drago]

Try moving the lead outs back back a little at a time. Also do you have any wing tip weight.

[john e. holliday]

Hang the plane by the front lead out and see how nose down it is.  They may be too far back and causing the plane to yaw more and lose speed which will cause lines to go slack.   Also do you have a degree or two of nose out on the engine?

[Tim Wescott]

Read Walker on stunt!

Plenty of tension low and not much high means a warp, tip weight, or (usually) the leadouts are too far forward.  Lots of tip weight will mask other sins, so don't assume that if it's fixed with more tip weight it's really truly fixed.

I'd check for warps first.  Then see if I can make it better with leadout position.  Make sure you do tests both upright and inverted, to flush out any warps.

[Ken Culbertson]

Losing tension both directions in a maneuver is likely either tip weight or a weak inboard flap either from a weak horn (mostly in a profile) or unequal twisting (both Full body & Profile).  A warp or a misaligned stab usually only go slack in one direction.

How much tip weight do you have?  I had a Magician as a kid which is very similar to a Banshee and it needed a ton of tip weight.

ken

[RogerGreene]

Also, your lines maybe too long. Should be in the neighborhood of 60 feet long. Too long lines would cause lack of tension in maneuvers.

[Dave Hull]

Ken,
I'm not sure I would claim similarity between the Banshee and the Magician for this particular issue. The Banshee has 1-1/8" wing asymmetry whereas the Magician has some huge number--something like 3" from memory. This affects tip weight.

I wonder what you else you were compensating for on your Magician if you needed a ton of tip weight? Just curious....as I have a Magician kit that I may someday build. But, I would probably cut the offset down to something around 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.

Dave

[Target]

I believe the magician wing offset is 2".

R,
Target

[Ken Culbertson]

Ken,
I'm not sure I would claim similarity between the Banshee and the Magician for this particular issue. The Banshee has 1-1/8" wing asymmetry whereas the Magician has some huge number--something like 3" from memory. This affects tip weight.

I wonder what you else you were compensating for on your Magician if you needed a ton of tip weight? Just curious....as I have a Magician kit that I may someday build. But, I would probably cut the offset down to something around 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.

Dave

Hard to tell.  Could have been anything since I was young and trimming was what you did to a Christmas Tree.  Pretty sure it was 2" wing offset.  What I remember was it chasing me all over the field every time I tried something and one of the grownups in the club said "Hey Kid - Put in some tip weight before you kill somebody".  Pretty sure I know now what it was.  I put my controls on the outboard side of the profile and used a horn on the flap.  Unless you have used really strong wire for the flap horn, that combination will create an inboard roll and in 1960, the cure for rolling, or for that matter almost anything, was (drum roll) tip weight!

Ken

[Allen Eshleman]

Thanks for all the help.  I have asked this before.  However, when I used search, there were so many posts that just mentioned adjustable leadouts that I couldn't easily find one that gave me the basics again.  Thanks so much.  I have made some adjustments but haven't been able to fly yet.

[Allen Eshleman]

I have added tip weight to the Shark 402 and moved the leadouts back a bit.  It is better but has very slow controls.  I had added front weight because it was over responsive as though tail heavy.  Now I am going to remove some of the front weight. 

[Tim Wescott]

I have added tip weight to the Shark 402 and moved the leadouts back a bit.  It is better but has very slow controls.  I had added front weight because it was over responsive as though tail heavy.  Now I am going to remove some of the front weight.

Uhhh -- you move the CG if the CG is off.  You speed up or slow down the controls with handle spacing.  You don't want to "fix" a handle spacing problem with CG.

What does it do when the engine cuts off?  Does go nose up and start wafting to the ground?  Go nose down and try to be a lawn dart?  Make a smooth transition to level flight?  Door A is the CG too far back, door B is the CG too far forward, door C is close to right.  If the CG is close to right, then don't try to adjust control response by changing it -- change the handle spacing instead.

[Allen Eshleman]

It glides very nice when the motor cuts off.   I will try the handle spacing.  I have it very small for another plane. 

[Tim Wescott]

It glides very nice when the motor cuts off.   I will try the handle spacing.  I have it very small for another plane.

If you want to be serious about this stunt stuff, you want one handle per plane.  If you don't want to spend time, buy a bunch.  If you don't want to spend money, build some.

[Allen Eshleman]

I am using 60 ft lines.

[Perry Rose]

Get a cheap line level, hand the plane by the leadouts, place the level on the flat area of the nose. set the leadouts so there is a half bubble towards the tail. That will help one of your problems. After it's flying properly move the leadouts until the plane hangs level.

[John Watson]

Had the same problem with my Banshee built to the plans. Moved the leadouts back one half inch and cured the problem...….