US world champs set up?

[Rich Perry]

 What is the plane powerplant combo being used by the world team?  I would like to know what the top setups are these days, after being absent from stunt for a while.

 Thanks

[Rich Perry]

Or maybe it is a secret?  !!!!

[Tim Wescott]

This thread tells you that Orestes and Paul used an Igor timer setup.  AFAIK Dave Fitzgerald still uses a loud thing that leaves a smoke trail; I think it's a Ro-Jett, and I know it's piped, but I can't tell you more.

Note that if you're not flying expert the Igor system may not be for you -- Paul has mentioned that you have to be on top of your game to get it tuned up, and he's mentioned that when he starts out with a new plane he doesn't use the advanced functions because they can mask trim problems with the airframe. (I don't know if he turns all the gains to zero or if he uses a Hubin timer, but I know that Howard Rush copies a lot of what Paul does, and Howard uses a Hubin timer for the initial flights).

I'm still stuck in slime power, but I'd say that you should start with a Hubin-esque setup, with an ESC/timer combo that holds the motor at a constant speed (either a Hubin timer and an ESC with a governor, or a KR timer used as he recommends).  Then when you're comfortable with that, move on to a timer with an accelerometer like the Igor thing or a Fioretti timer.

[Rich Perry]

Cool, thanks for the info.

[Brett Buck]

This thread tells you that Orestes and Paul used an Igor timer setup.  AFAIK Dave Fitzgerald still uses a loud thing that leaves a smoke trail; I think it's a Ro-Jett, and I know it's piped, but I can't tell you more.

     It's a PA75. It's set up the way David suggested in his article, for the most part. The only relationship to the RO-Jett is that he used some of the same approach I did, which was initially a copy of his PA61 setup to start with, which in turn borrows very heavily from Ted's work with Eather props on the 46VF.

    Note that this all goes back to the early/mid 90's. THAT is why you want to use an established system from a competitive expert, it can takes years or decades to arrive at a good system that provides the necessary performance over a wide range of conditions. Unlike some of the self-proclaimed engine experts who can evaluate 6 engines in an afternoon and then gas on for 4000 words over their various characteristics and what you should grind to make it better.

   Note also that the experts use mostly stock parts, and I can assure you that David, Ted, and I haven't taken a Dremel tool/die grinder to the guts of an engine for at least the last 30+ years we have been flying together.

     Brett

[Howard Rush]

You can use an Igor timer and start with the "sensitivity" set to zero.  That gives a constant RPM.  After the airplane is pretty well trimmed you can start messing with vortex generators and the Igor autothrottle.

[Brett Buck]

You can use an Igor timer and start with the "sensitivity" set to zero.  That gives a constant RPM.  After the airplane is pretty well trimmed you can start messing with vortex generators and the Igor autothrottle.

  It's definitely one of those "if you can adjust it, you can adjust it wrong" sorts of deals. Interestingly, at Golden State last year, Paul and I were talking about some of the settings and it turned out that he and I were working on the same area - he on the Igor electric system, and me on the RO-Jett. What I was doing with varying the fuel contents and adjusting flow restrictions, he was doing with limit adjustments (in this case, the lower RPM limit for regulation).

   The single best thing about electric is that you have a hope of coming up with a legitimate technical explanation for what we have felt and adjusted for by trial and error for years - because you know exactly what you adjusted.

     Brett

[Bradley Walker]

You can use an Igor timer and start with the "sensitivity" set to zero.  That gives a constant RPM.  After the airplane is pretty well trimmed you can start messing with vortex generators and the Igor autothrottle.

Hey Howard!!

Where do you get such a thing?  IS there like a Bill of Materials for this "Igor rig" somewhere?

[Mike Haverly]

Howard is still in bed, so I'll answer.

http://87.197.134.200/timers_a/timers_a.htm

He (Igor) has everything.  I doubt that it will work on a four-stroke though

[Luis Strufaldi]

Here in Brazil we have been gettin pretty good and consistent results with Rogerio Fiorotti's timer.
It has the accelerometer function that manages motor RPM, is easy to install and set up and does not require a programming card.

I have an ARF SV-11 equipped with the Fiorotti timer, Hyperion 3025, Castle Lite50 ESC and Zippy 2700mAh 5S batteries turning a 3 blade carbon fiber Igor Burger pro that is by far the best plane I've had ever.

Sparky received one of the timers to send to a lucky viewer and, from what I saw in the forum, reviews are quite good.

His website now have an English section for those of you who don't speak Portuguese (Really? Shame on you!!  )
http://www.metaenergia.com.br/index.html

[Paul Walker]

The top 4 planes all used similar equipment. The ESC and timers were identical.

The ESC is the Jeti Spin 66 (not the one available on most web sites, but availabe only through Igor. There IS a difference).

The timer is also abailable through Igor. It used a 3 axis accelerometer to control the RPM.

Between the four, Orestes and I used Thunder Power batteries and Igor and Richie used Zippy batteries.

All four motore were different. Orestes used a Cobra (don't remember the model #), Igor used an Axi, (again, I don't know the exact number), and it was specially wound for his cell count, Richie used a Kontronik (exact model unknown)   and I used a Plettenberg Orbit 15-22.

The props were, Orestes an Igor 12*5 underchambered, Igor and I used an Igor 12*5 narrow blade (note that these Igor props are hollow and weighed only 16 grams) and Richie used a home made wood three blade.

Each pilot had the system working differently. Igor's was very quick to change speeds, Orestes and I had less agressive speed changes, and Richie used even less boost but more brake.

All four worked well.

[Igor Burger]

All four motore were different. Orestes used a Cobra (don't remember the model #), Igor used an Axi, (again, I don't know the exact number), and it was specially wound for his cell count, Richie used a Kontronik (exact model unknown)   and I used a Plettenberg Orbit 15-22.

I am not absolutely sure, but I think Richie has Plettenberg Orbit. I am not sure with numbers. I used custom "F2B" AXI 2826/13.

The props were, Orestes an Igor 12*5 underchambered, Igor and I used an Igor 12*5 narrow blade (note that these Igor props are hollow and weighed only 16 grams) and Richie used a home made wood three blade.

Also that UCT prop which Orestes uses is hollow. Richie uses (as far as I know) 3 blade 12x5 Sandor Havran prop (Sandor is Hungarian prop maker and F2B judge, may be someone remembers him from WCH in Hungary - Bekesczaba). They are nice (very nice) props, almost jevels, I have them also, delivered in nice wood box - really like jevels, they work nice, but for me - I affraid of wood, carbon is carbon :- )))

Each pilot had the system working differently. Igor's was very quick to change speeds, Orestes and I had less agressive speed changes, and Richie used even less boost but more brake.

I started with heavy model (my batteries were stucked in Abu Dhabi and used heavier battery with tail weight compensation) so I started with agresively strong sensitivity to compensate weight difference, but later when I installed lighter battery I left it as it was.

Richie (also as far as I know - from the time he spoke with me while finding proper settings for him) uses asymetric setting which does not accelerate too much (or not at all) and it only brakes. I use it also little asymetric so that it can brake more then accelerate ("min" in timer set to 80 instead of 100).

[Igor Burger]

Here in Brazil we have been gettin pretty good and consistent results with Rogerio Fiorotti's timer.
It has the accelerometer function that manages motor RPM, is easy to install and set up and does not require a programming card.

I have an ARF SV-11 equipped with the Fiorotti timer, Hyperion 3025, Castle Lite50 ESC and Zippy 2700mAh 5S batteries turning a 3 blade carbon fiber Igor Burger pro that is by far the best plane I've had ever.

Sparky received one of the timers to send to a lucky viewer and, from what I saw in the forum, reviews are quite good.

His website now have an English section for those of you who don't speak Portuguese (Really? Shame on you!!  )
http://www.metaenergia.com.br/index.html

Hmmm ... I have somehow mixed feeling ... or better to say "deja vu" ... like I saw it already somewhere ... somewhere on my desk 

[Paul Walker]

I am not absolutely sure, but I think Richie has Plettenberg Orbit. I am not sure with numbers. I used custom "F2B" AXI 2826/13.

[/quote]



I looked under his cowl and it was not a Plettenberg....Unless he changed it later.  

Maybe he fooled me and showed me Christoph's, and I didn't notice.

Now I remember...
Yes, he told me he was using the 25 series. I remember talking about that weight hit. So, maybe it was Christoph's I saw...

[Igor Burger]

I did not see Christops model from inside, but he wrote me once about cobra motors, I think he uses them, I can ask them, I will meet bot in Austria in Alps on contest next week (if I cure Jett lagg :-P)

[Chris McMillin]

Were those guys using the yellow Zippy Compact's?
Chris...

[Igor Burger]

I had also zippy compact.

[Paul Walker]

Were those guys using the yellow Zippy Compact's?
Chris...

Ugh.....Yes.

But the World Champion had the good sense not to. He used Thunder Power.

[Igor Burger]

World champion hided them better then we after him, we were not allowed to take them to airplane we had to use only what was available in australia, and that all was yellow, so that is why we used zippies :-P

[Tom Luciano]

Props- Tractor or pusher?

thanks,
Tom

[pmackenzie]

World champion hided them better then we after him, we were not allowed to take them to airplane we had to use only what was available in australia, and that all was yellow, so that is why we used zippies :-P

Hi Igor,

     what airport would not let you take the Lipos on the plane?
     I have heard that Frankfurt can be a problem. We made it through both Toronto and HK just fine, even though in Toronto they swabbed mine and it triggered an explosive alarm on their scanner.
     The guy knew they were batteries, looked at them closely and sent them through the Xray machine again. That was the only time they even looked.
      In HK on the way home they took away  rolls of tape from two of our guys, but didn't even look twice at the batteries.

      Both Konstantine and I used the same style of packs with the same connectors. We carried two each, and two other team members carried two each as well.
    By the rules there should be no problem, since they are below 100Whr and you are allowed two such batteries.

Pat MacKenzie

[Igor Burger]

It was Abu Dhabi, I declared them in Viena, they told me it is ok, no problem, allowed. Abu Dhabi had personal security check (after x ray scanner) and they asked what is it ... I explained, I had also papers with rules, they told me OK, but it looks danger, so they gave it to crew and they had to give them when we land ... however pilot did not alow it and told them he will not fly with them ... so all pasengers and pilots waited 2 hours in plane  until all solved ... later they found thick book showing that Lipos need some inspection or approval ... so I asked to do it ... but noone was able and they also did not know who can :- )))

then I told them to read the sentence carefully and pointed to worlds "over 100Wh" ... but noone there understood what it really mean, what I comented that it is pitty that pilot do not understand his rules ... finaly after 2 hours "friendly" conversation (when I asked how I can get back my luggage  ) they promised to deliver it to us ... I asked if they mean that other plane is able to take them and this one not ... but that question was unanswered ... however after 3 days of calling them morning and evening, a guy from airport ringed us in hotel and battereries arrived ... that was already running contest, so I flew with borrowed used Zippy from Joe Parisi. Later I repalced his old battery with mine new so all went OK then. Funny was that on way back noone checked it, unfortunatelly I gave all my batteries to Joe :-P

The same problem on the same place had also Richie and Christoph and one more guy (I do not know who, they just told us during one call to airport that we are not the only with that problem)

[Igor Burger]

Props- Tractor or pusher?

no no  ... no pushers on top places

[Christoph Holtermann]

Wow, how active you guys are already on the forum, don't you suffer jet lag from Perth? I do at least: Doing housework at 5am in the morning and waiting bored until I go to work

Richi and me lost batteries in Dubai, simply because Dubai police who did an additional security check of hand luggage on the transit didn't allow batteries. EMIRATES had other rules but Dubai police didn't care. That's why Richi needed to fly those yellow "FIAT"- batteries while using his "MERCEDES" motor, a Plettenberg Orbit 20-18 by the way. I used an old Kontronik Kora 15-16 that I bought in 2005 but that still serves me well.

We were all jealous on the guys flying real "ROLLS ROYCE" batteries. THUNDERPOWER for the ones who weren't there and don't understand the joke. Indeed, very good memories! It was an outstanding WC.

Christoph

[Igor Burger]

Wow, how active you guys are already on the forum, don't you suffer jet lag from Perth? I do at least: Doing housework at 5am in the morning and waiting bored until I go to work

Richi and me lost batteries in Dubai, simply because Dubai police who did an additional security check of hand luggage on the transit didn't allow batteries. EMIRATES had other rules but Dubai police didn't care. That's why Richi needed to fly those yellow "FIAT"- batteries while using his "MERCEDES" motor, a Plettenberg Orbit 20-18 by the way. I used an old Kontronik Kora 15-16 that I bought in 2005 but that still serves me well.

We were all jealous on the guys flying real "ROLLS ROYCE" batteries. THUNDERPOWER for the ones who weren't there and don't understand the joke. Indeed, very good memories! It was an outstanding WC.

Christoph

I thought you flew to Abu Dhabi ... so if not then there were other 2 guys with battery problems :-P

I am waking up second day at 2am, do not worry, you are not alone with jet lag :- )))))))

[john e. holliday]

Have you guys got your equilibrium back after being upside down for that period of time.    Glad you competitors didn't have any more problems than you did.