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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Paul Taylor on December 14, 2017, 08:37:53 AM

Title: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Paul Taylor on December 14, 2017, 08:37:53 AM: I went over to visit Jim Lynch and see Charlie Reeves. Charlie came to Memphis to work on model planes. He was working on his Big Job and ask Jim to assist on repainting Bob's Nobler. Charlie was told that Bob always doubled the jap tissue in the center of the wing. He said he could tell it was a little thicker out to the first bay.
Charlie was having some issues getting the Top Flite graphics sized and replicated to the correct colors and I was able to help get it sized and cleaned up the images.

I saw this plane at Charlie's house this past summer. Dave Tribble gave some history on the plane while we were at Charlie's. Dave said he first saw this plane at the 68 NATs in Olathe, Kanas. He remembered the trim adjustment he made on the flap. Dave said he was 14yrs old at the time. Maybe Dave will chime in and give a little more history.
Just thought I would share.

Anyway here are the photos.
First are from Charlie's shop this summer, then after some restoration. If I get any updates pictures I will post here.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/3c552885c23c4b2f1dda6f674cfb1fd5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/5cfc4993ff7eab6a27e3a84fe31d9fa3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/ec5ac6fc93ff4a24b1790e32b847edce.jpg)

After

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/0058c47c1bde18d2439743277deb5252.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/198bad1de3843c805696a2642a0244bb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/4d0e4bf6a9ba79aaeec2294c52765bb9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/f635c855036c3247ff1680e6ac28f7bc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/0ee00561a6e8c94dd1603fd726df3703.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/b92c1b0e9fc18bba29b64a4b0a680771.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/b80a2cc7b746d098ac9f090a839adfd0.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/d558a8da269454d8ed36eda2919e51c3.jpg)

Note- Charlie said he did not touch any of the cockpit. The old melted canopy was replaced but it preserved the cockpit. Notice the paper next to the seat.
Some cool Stunt history.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Gerald Arana on December 14, 2017, 09:42:50 AM: Is it going to fly again or just go to a museum?

Jerry
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 14, 2017, 10:34:03 AM: It’s great to see the progress on the airplane. Charlie is just the guy for this. I’m not sure what I can add and I also wonder still about a couple things. At the ‘68 Nats Bob was working a trim issue with the plane figuring out about the tip weight and/or flap assymetry. He kept pulling top weight and said he might grind out the tip weight box before he was done. Then he started whacking on the inboard flap. It was during this two- three days process he developed his hypothesis that he explained to me about it the problem was at or below 45 degrees it was tip weight. If above that it was the flaps. This has been something I attest to still today. Those cuts on the flap are still there and visible. ( I hope Charlie leaves them). I wonder two things: I have one of Bob’s engines that MAY have been in this airplane but I’ll never know for sure. It’s a ‘63 gold tumble polished anniversary special. At Charlie’s the plane a much newer Fox in it. The other thing I wonder if this is the World Champion 1974 airplane as well. Bob always called it the ‘74 airplane. When he made any modification to the ship he used those tiny gold graphics next to the work to date them and indeed this airplane has one such 1974 marking on it so he WAS still flying this one then.
The question about the jap tissue- my understanding was the whole thing had two layers, not just the center section. When I was poking around on the ship I couldn’t tell.

Dave
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Bruce Shipp on December 14, 2017, 11:37:39 AM: Did this plane have adjustable or fixed lead outs?
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: James Holford on December 14, 2017, 12:41:27 PM: Too darn cool!!

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Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Doug Moon on December 14, 2017, 01:49:03 PM: This is so very cool!!! SO COOL!!
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: EddyR on December 14, 2017, 01:56:49 PM: Way back many moons ago Bill Rich said Bob needed red Jap tissue. That is the super light stuff we used on 1/2 A ff models. I had a lot of it left from my FF days. I called Bob and offered it to him. I think it was around 10-15 sheets. Those sheets were not as large as regular tissue,maybe 12x24". That was sometime around 1984. Must have been for a later model.
Is this the 48" wing?
Ed
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Skip Chernoff on December 14, 2017, 03:04:03 PM: Thanks for sharing this info on Bob's plane. I've had many Noblers,but never the Gieske version. I've got a kit in the basement. When I'm done my Shark 45 (shortly) maybe I'll open that old TF kit .I bet they fly great!....PhillySkip
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Gerald Schamp on December 14, 2017, 03:25:54 PM: Nice pictures, is there any chance you might show the nose and cowl section. Different than the kit version for sure. Is there any view of the air ducting that was shown in one of the magazine articles, I think it was in Stunt News, but would love to see what is on this model. Thanks much, Gerald Schamp
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 14, 2017, 03:54:55 PM: Quote from: Bruce Shipp on December 14, 2017, 11:37:39 AM
Did this plane have adjustable or fixed lead outs?
I don't remember, if I actually ever knew. Bob was an innovator on finite trim so if adjustable leadouts were in use you can bet they are there. I do know guys were moving them even if they had to cut. Maybe Paul remembers. I think someplace I may still have an old Polaroid
Swinger picture of Bob with the plane in Olathe. If I should find it I'll try to post it.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Paul Taylor on December 14, 2017, 04:54:06 PM: Yes it had adjustable LO.
The type you had to move a brass grommets.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Paul Taylor on December 14, 2017, 05:13:50 PM: This is old picture. I will try and get a update next time I stop by. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171215/cc6400f162491107b84e307c14fb8749.jpg)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Air Ministry . on December 14, 2017, 07:23:42 PM: Loks f***ing good .

I like the ' patania ' . Think As it sits it incorporates all the original history and heritage , so best preserved UN RESPRAYED .

After all . If you wanted a respray , constructing a exact replica ( Hop to it , it'll only take a few minutes ) would represent it in all its glory .
Leaving the original Authentic .

Hate it when a old race bike is tarted and polished up , often ignoring its original ' Race Spec tune ' and presented as representing ' the real thing ' .

You have ' the Real Thing ' There . As Is , NOW . Clear coat etc would be more than enough. ( Sorry to go on, just my take on it . )

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/-Vpq9YpUCNnA/VNtxzSXohAI/AAAAAAAAAKI/SB_kynxNLnA/s640/1975%252520Walker%252520Cup%252520Bob%252520Gieseke%252520Gieseke%252520Nobler.jpg)

(https://g.io.ua/img_aa/large/1966/29/19662998.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Olli-Matti on December 15, 2017, 12:24:23 AM: Very cool model! A real classic for sure :)

You don't happen to have any pictures of the underside of this? Rarely seen on the era photos so now could be a great chance to take the pic

Br
Ollie
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 15, 2017, 07:24:44 AM: I've been trying a little photo study on this airplane and my findings so far lead me to think this airplane:
1. Is the 1966 Walker Cup winner.
2. Is NOT the 1974 World airplane.
3. Was brought back out to win the 1979 Walker Cup.

This is the one in the lower photo taken at 'some' World Champs. The top photo at the 1975 Nats where Bob again put his name on the cup. That airplane is the World airplane. It's whereabouts unknown but likely still exists, perhaps with his family. His brother Don was demo-flying it at one Nats in the 90's.

Dave
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: RandySmith on December 15, 2017, 03:08:04 PM: Quote from: Dave_Trible on December 15, 2017, 07:24:44 AM
I've been trying a little photo study on this airplane and my findings so far lead me to think this airplane:
1. Is the 1966 Walker Cup winner.
2. Is NOT the 1974 World airplane.
3. Was brought back out to win the 1979 Walker Cup.

This is the one in the lower photo taken at 'some' World Champs. The top photo at the 1975 Nats where Bob again put his name on the cup. That airplane is the World airplane. It's whereabouts unknown but likely still exists, perhaps with his family. His brother Don was demo-flying it at one Nats in the 90's.

Dave

I think it is both the 1974 WC winner and the airplane he won the 1975 NATs with, I was there flying and Bob said the plane he had was the WC winner, he also crashed this airplane at the 1975 NATs, and you can clearly see the rudder addition where the rudder was scarped off, you can also see the wingtip scars where the plane went into the ground. BOB repaired the airplane at the NATs, and then flew it to a NATs win

Randy
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 15, 2017, 04:55:45 PM: I do think the WC plane and the 75 Nats airplane are the same. My wonder about the airplane being restored is the paint trim at the tips. That trim was not on this airplane. However I found a photo of the 79 Nats winner and it looks to be the same as the 66 airplane and the one Charlie has. I do see the rudder work. I was thinking a modification or maybe yet another low outside bottom.

Dave
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: M. Scott on December 15, 2017, 07:07:53 PM: You are right Randy, same model... maybe. This model that Charlie is working on is the World Championship model. It sat on Bob's work bench for years along side the Only Yellow Nobler that he built up until his passing. That one currently hangs in my shop. Some more history as I was told by Bear, the WC model, the magic was in the wing. It flew by itself and had a mind of its own. That wing was in four different models... that is why I said maybe. Every one was a winner. He was just along for the ride. My opinion, it took both together to win... what a great Gentlemen.
Mike
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Dennis Toth on December 15, 2017, 07:54:18 PM: Not to get to far off topic but since you have the original airplanes - what type of tank did he use in them straight vent or uniflow?

Best, DennisT
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Air Ministry . on December 15, 2017, 08:49:44 PM: Yes , definately Far Out . etc .

Been contemplateing this ,

A good few coats of CLEAR , as dope ways 2/10 of 5/8 of s. f . a. , and polished back with 600 , youd preserve all the dogma

and could get a mist coat of colour with the intricasies etc clean & smooth on that , then the usual 10 plus clear over that /

dont forget the plasticiser .

First Class Aeroplane obviously . a few in cowl & in engine bay pictures would be nice . We'll be after a dimensioned drawing next S?P

at least for the flying surfaces & moments . ;D

Thanks for the pictures . Sure snapped the eyes open when youd first posted them as found , a while back . H^^
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Manuel Cortes on December 15, 2017, 11:10:58 PM: Lovely thread.

Thanks all for share this part of stunt history.

Kind regards from Spain.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Allan Perret on December 16, 2017, 04:18:27 AM: This is REALY cool stuff. Curious how Charlie ended up with this bird. Paul if you ever do another Memphis contest what would really be cool is to get this model there for display (under plexiglass off course) so we can just look at it. I think it might help the contest turn out.. I been wanting to build a BEAR for 10 years now. M. Scott and the Moon brothers, we NEED a sets of plans.. I have a new PA75 looking for a worthy design to haul around. Make this happen and I will fly it at Garland Park. I know I could never build it to come in close to a Bob G bird weight-wise, but the PA75 won't care..
What is the most accurate Gieske Nobler plan currently available ? I think a Stalker 51re might be the engine sweet spot in that one. And yes I know what PJ did.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on December 16, 2017, 05:39:55 AM: Indeed- quite neat and very interesting. Glad it's not a total restoration and re- spray. There is something special about an old, worn stunter much like a classic car or motorcycle. The intrigue lies within one's imagination of where , when and how it flew. Like most, I enjoy seeing shiny brand new stunters. But one such as this and a few of Gene S. that I saw at Hunt's are magical.
I've seen Scarinzi's collection of his old stunters ( Trident, Blue Angel ,etc.) and combat ships( Killer, Giant Killer, Super Satan,etc. ) and they are remarkably preserved.

As a teenager, I met Bob G. at the 1968 Olathe, Kansas NATS.

Impressive pilot, impressive individual.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Bob Hunt on December 16, 2017, 06:10:38 AM: This might be one of the most intriguing threads ever posted here. And, yes, Charlie is THE GUY to do the restoration. But, one thing has been bothering me, and I'm asking Paul Taylor to correct it: Let's get Bob's last name right in the thread title. It's Gieseke...

Thanks for starting this up, Paul and please don't take my comment as a criticism. Bob's name has been spelled and pronounced in myriad different ways over the years.

Later - Bob Hunt
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Andre Ming on December 16, 2017, 10:53:36 AM: Hi Bob:

How IS Bob' G's name pronounced? I thought I recalled hearing Duke pronounce it "Gee (as in "geek") zih (as in zit) key". Close?

Shame it needs to be restored... lost forever will be the original finish/colors/etc.

Andre
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: RandySmith on December 16, 2017, 02:10:01 PM: Quote from: M. Scott on December 15, 2017, 07:07:53 PM
You are right Randy, same model... maybe. This model that Charlie is working on is the World Championship model. It sat on Bob's work bench for years along side the Only Yellow Nobler that he built up until his passing. That one currently hangs in my shop. Some more history as I was told by Bear, the WC model, the magic was in the wing. It flew by itself and had a mind of its own. That wing was in four different models... that is why I said maybe. Every one was a winner. He was just along for the ride. My opinion, it took both together to win... what a great Gentlemen.
Mike

Hi Mike

what happened to the small airplane Bob called the "Little Bear" ?

And yes Bob was famous for reusing parts that he thought were special :-)

Randy
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Paul Taylor on December 16, 2017, 03:22:12 PM: Quote from: Bob Hunt on December 16, 2017, 06:10:38 AM
This might be one of the most intriguing threads ever posted here. And, yes, Charlie is THE GUY to do the restoration. But, one thing has been bothering me, and I'm asking Paul Taylor to correct it: Let's get Bob's last name right in the thread title. It's Gieseke...

Thanks for starting this up, Paul and please don't take my comment as a criticism. Bob's name has been spelled and pronounced in myriad different ways over the years.

Later - Bob Hunt

I will correct it on the main headed. Thanks Bob for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: john e. holliday on December 16, 2017, 04:00:30 PM: I think it was the Lake Charles NATS that I had a chance to meet and talk to Bob. Quite a gentleman. The plane he had was the one that won both the NATS and Worlds in the same year. He stated that the plane consisted of parts from three different planes. H^^
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Zuriel Armstrong on December 16, 2017, 06:48:48 PM: I loved Bob's planes back in the day. It was a thrill to finally meet him and a thrill to see this plane in person.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Brett Buck on December 16, 2017, 07:43:54 PM: Quote from: john e. holliday on December 16, 2017, 04:00:30 PM
I think it was the Lake Charles NATS that I had a chance to meet and talk to Bob. Quite a gentleman. The plane he had was the one that won both the NATS and Worlds in the same year. He stated that the plane consisted of parts from three different planes. H^^

Even in a sport of gentlemen, Bear was a cut above, one of the finest people I have met in any venue or context.

Brett
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Mike Keville on December 16, 2017, 08:01:24 PM: Agreed, 100%. When he came to the VSC he greeted me warmly although I was not remotely in his league. A true gentleman!

mk
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Jim Kraft on December 16, 2017, 08:30:24 PM: I got to talk to Bob at VSC one year about his Noblers, and yes, he was a fine gentleman. He was very humble and liked talking about his disasters more than his successes. So glad I got to spend a little time with him as he was always one of my heroes. Loved the pictures in the magazines of him and his Nobler. And thanks to you Mike for making such a meeting able to happen. I will be forever grateful.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Air Ministry . on December 16, 2017, 09:22:54 PM: Quote from: Allan Perret on December 16, 2017, 04:18:27 AM
This is REALY cool stuff. Curious how Charlie ended up with this bird. Paul if you ever do another Memphis contest what would really be cool is to get this model there for display (under plexiglass off course) so we can just look at it. I think it might help the contest turn out.. I been wanting to build a BEAR for 10 years now. M. Scott and the Moon brothers, we NEED a sets of plans.. I have a new PA75 looking for a worthy design to haul around. Make this happen and I will fly it at Garland Park. I know I could never build it to come in close to a Bob G bird weight-wise, but the PA75 won't care..
What is the most accurate Gieske Nobler plan currently available ? I think a Stalker 51re might be the engine sweet spot in that one. And yes I know what PJ did.

If you look on the BEAR 46 thread on Nostalgia 30 , and follow the links , Particularly the new world beater fred ,
youll get data on the Geo Bear ,( a Wewage Geo T-Bolt wing Bear Bob Did .

The .46 appears to be ' about this ( 97 Bear 46/60 ) minus a inner bay Ea Side , to 620 Sq rather than 659 sq in . ??????
Delete the pipe tunnel , lower deck straight through Fwd should cover the injun . Plenty of Gieseke Bear pictures come up on SEARCH .

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wkgAAOSwvzRX0BfC/s-l1600.jpg)

Thats a Steve Moon inked plan .

(http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/files/giesekenobler3b_102.jpg)

A old issue of the AMA mag , has Bob Gieseke quoted as saying " Free Play in the elevator horn is essential , to give about 1/8 slack ea side of neutral " PLUS the 1:1 Control ratio ( Flap to Elevator )

Drg Above by Bob . ( Downloadable from Hippocket or suchlike ) assume to match the airframe here , with accurate wing dimension & tailplane assy . . . We'd be Home . A Authentic Giseke Nobler Plan . !

Theres a chance this ones authentic , too . S?P

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tt4AAOSw7NNT6IKA/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: wwwarbird on December 16, 2017, 10:10:29 PM: Quote from: Bob Hunt on December 16, 2017, 06:10:38 AM
This might be one of the most intriguing threads ever posted here. And, yes, Charlie is THE GUY to do the restoration.

I agree, this is a very cool project. A shoe in for any "Keeper of the Flame" award too, maybe VSC 2018?
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Doug Moon on December 16, 2017, 11:29:21 PM: Here are some pictures of his only yellow Nobler. Mike Scott has this one in his shop. I think Mike also has one of the 97 Bears as well in really good condition with a tiny bit of hangar rash on the tail. Then there is the 99 which was a "mule" used for many motor break ins and experiments. It has 1000s of flights on it, and it looks like it has been through a war. There are a few other planes of his around as well. I have his 2003 model and still fly it today. I have over 100 patterns on it this year!! His grandson has his last Gieseke Nobler he built and flew at VSC. It is a really nice plane in excellent condition. I would love to get my hands on that one. His son Joe has his 2004 model. His last stunt plane. It sat alone on the front row at that years concourse judging, 19 points. I want a few rounds with that one too. That one had a 21" tail moment. About 6 months before he passed I asked him about that plane and how it flew. He said if he could build another one he would make the tail even longer. But he couldn't because his car was too small. "Time for a bigger car I guess." :) :) That was Bob, always thinking ahead and what he could do on his next one to make it fly a better pattern, while always ready for a laugh. Not only was he a model airplane builder and flyer and was truly on a quest to fly the perfect pattern. It was a quest he carried with him to his dying days. I met and got to know him later in his stunt career and life and maybe that gives me a little different perspective. But from where I stood it was a simply a burning desire within him to really conquer the "pattern." And just when he was close it would slip away a little due to wind or trim or whatever and he would fight back and get ahead of it again. Building and flying model planes is not something he did it was what he was. It was more than that for him. I am glad for him, and us, that he was able to fly for so long in his life. It would have been very hard for him to have to watch for many many years and not get in on the action. I am also very glad for him later in his life that he has such a nice and caring daughter that would drive with him to nats every year he was up for it so he could watch and be a part of the event that was such a part of his life. I really wish he could have had one more session at Hobby Park with the trees cut down...just one more. I am sorry to ramble on so much but it's late and I started thinking back on it....
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Doug Moon on December 16, 2017, 11:30:07 PM: I have to post these one at a time since we are still restricted to 1000KB.....
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Doug Moon on December 16, 2017, 11:30:49 PM: ..
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Doug Moon on December 16, 2017, 11:31:17 PM: ..
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: M. Scott on December 17, 2017, 07:47:33 AM: Thanks Doug for posting the pictures, I am not sure how. I will send more to you this afternoon of the models that I have.
Hi Randy.... not sure of the one called Little Bear, along with the Yellow Gieseke, I have the
96 and the 99. The 99 is the one that he let Doug and my self copy and I won Advanced class in 2000 with. I had painted it like his Yellow Gieseke. I am 99% sure that I was the first to win with the PA .65, had just came out. What a great motor.
Lots of the planes from Bobs estate went to family members. but my intent so far is for the Yellow Gieseke to go to a museum at Triple Tree during the Joe Nall. This will be fun.
Mike
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Bob Hunt on December 17, 2017, 10:07:55 AM: It's too bad the attached photo is not in color. It is of my son, Robby Hunt and Bob Gieseke at the 1991 Nats in Lawrenceville, IL. Bob and Robby were great friends and they corresponded right up to the point when Bob left us.

Bob is holding the yellow Gieseke Nobler that is pictured in the previous posts on this thread. Robby is holding the first of the two Europas that he flew in the early 1990s.

Bob Hunt
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: RandySmith on December 17, 2017, 04:36:17 PM: Quote from: Doug Moon on December 16, 2017, 11:31:17 PM
..

The Yellow Nobler Bob had, was the one That I believe had the ST G34 in it, does the engine still reside there, or did Bob replace it. ? I know he had talked about an Aero Tiger upgrade for it

Randy
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: M. Scott on December 17, 2017, 06:39:15 PM: It still has the same Motor, I thought it was a .32, but I could not remember.
Mike
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Air Ministry . on December 18, 2017, 07:57:20 PM: Quote
I am sorry to ramble on so much but it's late and I started thinking back on it....

Reminisance . How will us peasants know , otherwise . sounds like youve got a pretty good line on the Bear etc Development . H^^
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Olli-Matti on December 18, 2017, 10:28:17 PM: Can anyone confirm the underside colors?
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 19, 2017, 06:43:27 AM: They are a copy of the top, less the AMA number. BTW the stripes were white. Age and sunlight haven’t been friendly.

Dave
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Dennis Toth on December 19, 2017, 08:12:43 AM: Bob built one version with a shorter 48" wing span, I believe he really like this with the Fox 35 but it was somehow damaged before he could compete with it. Anyone have details on it?

Best, DennisT
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: Paul Taylor on December 19, 2017, 07:42:14 PM: Stopped by Jim's shop today and got more photos.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/631d4d52b59a7eafa729f0843d38ca19.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/8dd3fda46f6cdf83ccdda3e2fb6db9d4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/66fca2477bbe818963ad4e5e2c7b3f96.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/0eccfc636e3064fcbf4a8cea94f7358c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/912f317ae03721877187af7c032e49f6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/312a3a6c3b1d495ca38f2d6ff07ffe4a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/b05ce5e1572a388cdc54c20e9848fa76.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/e21270ce8d156567e4b98580a79af0da.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/a6261dab01a69a13022711b9544b2daf.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/5a20c64958facb5e4669d7866c824156.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/abc7dc8ab9af19642afb3dcf449615e4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/a3e6cdcd1495187c385e2b6890112614.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/4f35ebd394ff9a5c65e1d17e79d54159.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/dede1a4247427e7f6d6f95c912314f0c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/574bb37f4c442ca1baec1a95f150af98.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/751ec55cdacd21245cde343127f53f40.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/01718c16e2dc661f5872467fd37537e9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/d7432ec78860eb06bb72745c2df0b339.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/41b3e5b01efe7e8cb16d22de6ef96363.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/dc07591a442ebc7c16bb9b3a0d6a7473.jpg)

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Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler
Post by: M. Scott on December 19, 2017, 07:59:51 PM: This is Great guys, Thanks for posting all the photos.
Mike
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Air Ministry . on December 19, 2017, 09:26:02 PM: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) H^^
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Paul Taylor on December 19, 2017, 09:35:42 PM: I find it interesting that the tank is built in.
Also the engine was cleaned but not disassembled.
The dots on the wing are there to cover the damage from the inverted landing.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: EddyR on December 20, 2017, 02:05:50 PM: One thing that I have not seem mentioned in many years is Bob flew very slow lap times. The wing overs were so slow you would wonder if it was going to make it. I think he used 58 ft lines. He did use the short wing in more than one model.
Ed
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 20, 2017, 09:45:33 PM: Quote from: EddyR on December 20, 2017, 02:05:50 PM
One thing that I have not seem mentioned in many years is Bob flew very slow lap times. The wing overs were so slow you would wonder if it was going to make it. I think he used 58 ft lines. He did use the short wing in more than one model.
Ed

You know, I don't think I have ever heard the other particulars of Bob G's models discussed either, or his general set up and flying philosophies were. Things like his preferred lap time, line length, favorite fuel, prop, plugs and such. If I was going to try and build an accurate replica to fly, I would want to try and replicate everything just for the chance to experience what he experienced.
When He passed away, I read where he was going home to be buried in his home town of Greeneville, IL. I had no idea he was from a town that close to me, so I made the effort to attend his funeral and I'm glad I did. It was an honor to do so and I was grateful to meet the rest of his family. I was surprised to see that he was buried with his customized EZ-Just handle in his hand, the 5 inch handle with some balsa pieces added and carved to shape. Did he really use this same handle all the time?
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brett Buck on December 20, 2017, 09:57:08 PM: Quote from: Dan McEntee on December 20, 2017, 09:45:33 PM
You know, I don't think I have ever heard the other particulars of Bob G's models discussed either, or his general set up and flying philosophies were. Things like his preferred lap time, line length, favorite fuel, prop, plugs and such. If I was going to try and build an accurate replica to fly, I would want to try and replicate everything just for the chance to experience what he experienced.

He flew pretty slow for a Nobler with a Fox, but not extraordinarily slow. You did sometimes wonder whether it would make it over the top or through the overhead 8s, but it wasn't outlandish. He was also a proponent of "using the shortest lines he could get away with".

Brett
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 25, 2017, 04:25:17 PM: Quote from: Brett Buck on December 20, 2017, 09:57:08 PM
He flew pretty slow for a Nobler with a Fox, but not extraordinarily slow. You did sometimes wonder whether it would make it over the top or through the overhead 8s, but it wasn't outlandish. He was also a proponent of "using the shortest lines he could get away with".

Brett

Now that I have had a good Christmas dinner, Let's get back to this!

I would really have to think about how to achieve this set up. I'm used to starting out with lines just a little than I think I might need until I get the engine/ prop combo happy, then adjust the line length accordingly. Kind of the opposite of what is suggested here. I guess what I would need to figure out is the starting point, what engine speed and lap time? I'm used to going to longer lines to slow things down, not speed things up. I'll have to see if I got an airplane I can use to try this, I have a couple of ARF Noblers that would be good for this. They are fairly light So this would probably be a low RPM , high pitch operation? Got any idea what he ran for props? Since the airplanes survived, did he leave props on them as a guide? I have a couple of Top Flite Gieseke Nobler kits that are incomplete, and it would be fun to build up a true replica of his typical set up, including color scheme, line length, prop, handle and such. A kit built airplane with monokote covering wouldn't take too long and should be similar to his early efforts after the stock Nobler.
And with him living in the Texas area for so long, I find it interesting he would like to fly such low lap times in the typical winds down there?
MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Chris McMillin on December 25, 2017, 04:41:49 PM: Ha! Good one, Dan,

Actually weigh one and look for sub 50 oz all up. High compression Fox (or as high as they are when newly broken in, he used to throw them away when they quit making power.), no muffler, uniflow tank open to ram air, Rev Up 10x6 EW. Start with .015's at 62 feet and try for 5.3 laps and then start cutting off the lines and maintain 5.3 laps all the way to 57 feet or, as an experiment, shorter. It's so slow as to be scary.
Dad used to fly like that with the Shark, it's terrifying.

Chris...
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: pmackenzie on December 25, 2017, 05:01:20 PM: FWIW - I met Bob when we were down in Dallas for an F2D contest. ( 1998 or 1999 I think)

He was over in the Stunt circle flying a Fox powered Nobler most days we were there. I had one at the time and went over to say hello and see what he was running.
11x5 prop, 15% Nitro. I had also settled on 11x5, always found the model too "jumpy" on a 10x6 EW, despite that being the "standard" prop.
Switched to 15% after that as well.
I used to use 12x5 Rev ups cut down to 11" to get the wider blade. Thinned down and reshaped the tips a bit to match the shape of the 10x6 EW.

I also seem to recall he had little balsa pieces he would put in the venturi to add some choke area to affect the run?
Sort of L shaped parts of various thickness. Balsa presumably because they would not cause any damage if they got sucked in.
Anyone else recall that?

Super nice guy.

Pat MacKenzie
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Air Ministry . on December 26, 2017, 08:22:47 PM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=0LyUL8X1cEo

0:50 on . was windy we're told .
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: EddyR on December 27, 2017, 07:04:37 AM: Matt I found the video you posted very nostalgic. That was the Bob I remembered from long ago Nats and from my stop overs in Dallas. He was very animated in his stance. Not the stiff stance of many today.
EddyR
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Andre Ming on December 27, 2017, 07:40:08 AM: Thanks for the video link! It was great seeing Bob fly!

At Duke's request, I recall building some hand made 35 Stunts for Bob when I worked at Fox. (This would have been early/mid 70s.)
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Curt D Contrata on December 29, 2017, 09:08:47 AM: Thank you for posting all of these photos and for performing this restoration. It is a very special model, and the many pictures provide us all an insight to its life and history. It deserves to be preserved and not allowed to fall apart and turn to dust. I cannot think of 2 people more capable of the restoration and respectful of the model than would be Jim Lynch and Charlie Reeves. I look forward to more pictures of the progress and thank you again.

Curt
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Les McDonald on January 04, 2018, 02:41:42 PM: Quote from: Paul Taylor on December 19, 2017, 09:35:42 PM
I find it interesting that the tank is built in.

Ah yes the built in tank.
I don't remember exactly when but at some contest Bob figured the feed line had split so Werwage suggested driving in a length of 3/32" tubing.
Later that evening we stopped by Bobs room to see how he was doing and I recall seeing more than half the 12" length of tubing sticking out of a tank that was, at most, 4 inches long. Soon after that the major surgery began!
I loved that guy!
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieske's Nobler
Post by: Ken Culbertson on April 09, 2018, 03:40:40 PM: Quote from: Dave_Trible on December 15, 2017, 04:55:45 PM
I was thinking a modification or maybe yet another low outside bottom.

Dave

I think it was either Texarkana or Oklahama City in 1976-7. 2nd Sq Eight. I was there but that was a gazillion years ago so the place and year may be off. I practiced with Bob several times a week from 75-80. He never planted one in practice but he sure could scare the bugs! Bottoms to him in practice were like bat weights in the on deck circle.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Ken Culbertson on April 09, 2018, 03:53:18 PM: Quote from: EddyR on December 27, 2017, 07:04:37 AM
Matt I found the video you posted very nostalgic. That was the Bob I remembered from long ago Nats and from my stop overs in Dallas. He was very animated in his stance. Not the stiff stance of many today.
EddyR

It works, I don't know why we have become so stiff. Look at the international fliers. I would rather watch them than the plane!
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Skip Chernoff on April 09, 2018, 04:38:09 PM: Thanks for the update and photos.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: PJ Rowland on April 12, 2018, 08:54:56 PM: Nice to see video of him actually flying it.

I personally found that design to be one of the BEST wind planes ive ever had.
Sure I had stupid power.... but it worked very well. I also had Bob himself grinning ear to ear over the design combination.

My point here is.. the wing worked very well.. the design worked very well.. it has a broad operation range.

Yes I had a .61 in it.. but I also flew the .66 in it and noticed virtually zero trade off.

When I talk trade off.. what I mean is weight. YES its heavier and yes it pulls the cg forward.. but NOT as far as you think. But more importantly.. more power = fly slower. Even for that design.. I could drop to 6.5sec on a nice day and its like nothing out there today.

I just wish I could figure out a design thst gives this solid overpower feel.. with todays corner pop..

Lovely restoration.. id repaint it.. im sure thats what bob would have done if he had unlimited time.
He did tell me he wanted to build a copy of my combination just to try it.. but never had the chance..
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Air Ministry . on April 13, 2018, 12:47:50 AM: Ya shoulda given him a whirl on the handle , P.J. .
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brett Buck on April 13, 2018, 10:56:27 AM: Quote from: Ken Culbertson on April 09, 2018, 03:53:18 PM
It works, I don't know why we have become so stiff.

Because if you do, you also have to fly 2000 flights a year to stay competitive, and, you *had* to do a lot of that just to get your airplane through the maneuvers by "helping" it at times, pulling here, holding back there, whipping, etc. Geiseke was one of the ultimate masters of the genre, mostly because (like everyone else) the performance of the airplane was so marginal that you *had* to do it. Flying a Fox 35-powered airplane successfully in the conditions (maybe 20-25 gusty and turbulent) as shown could only be accomplished by someone with the remarkable skills of a Bob Geiseke, and if it wasn't a W/C everyone would have just left the airplanes in the car rather than risk it.

This is one of the huge changes since then - now, you don't have to do this sort of thing, because you have so much performance and predictability from the engine/prop that it never needs anything like all that help. Once that is true, and it was possible to just plant your feet and stand there and still make it, then the set of compromises changes, and optimize around the new conditions. You stand up straight and move appropriately in order to create a repeatable reference frame for the maneuvers. And, this has also changed the approach to success, you cannot approach it the old way, because someone else (or everyone else) will do it a better way.

Note also that some/many people have failed to grasp this very fundamental change, and persist in trying to thrash themselves doing it the way they did it in 1966, and then become mightily frustrated when it doesn't work out. MANY more people are competitive than there used to be, and stuff like this is why.

Brett
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brent Williams on April 13, 2018, 11:43:17 AM: This video shows the decided lack of body english that Brett is speaking of. Definitely not waving his arms and body around like a used car lot inflatable.
(I have been watching this video as prep for this season to help make some corrections of my body positioning in relation to the maneuver.)

this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29SIcHACNZw

not this:
(http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/wacky-inflatable-tube-man-gif-11.gif)
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brett Buck on April 13, 2018, 04:18:35 PM: Quote from: Brent Williams on April 13, 2018, 11:43:17 AM
This video shows the decided lack of body english that Brett is speaking of. Definitely not waving his arms and body around like a used car lot inflatable.

I would hasten to add - if I was flying a Nobler/Fox in those sort of conditions (which I *have* done - a very long time ago), I would be doing it more or less like Bear or Billy would have. Either that, or I would probably crash or get blown out.

Flying in the conditions and situation in the linked video is something most people wouldn't even contemplate, and only a few could successfully complete. It is a tribute to the skills of the masters that they managed it as well as they did. You *couldn't* do it the way you see me doing it in 2015 with vastly higher performance equipment and much better conditions (although it's not that much different in high winds).

I wouldn't say the skills are *lower* now than they were (the capability of the human race hasn't changed consequentially in the last 50 years), but the required skill set is definitely different than it was then. The capability of the airplanes/powerplants is vastly superior so the average flight has also gotten much better (something that has been clearly apparent to me even over the last 25 years).

Brett
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Mike Haverly on April 13, 2018, 04:43:55 PM: Just one more reply to the "stiff" comment. I launched Paul for this flight. I, as well as many others passed. Eugene Or. is notorious for turbulence. Note the trees in the background. The point is the top fliers still move around when necessary.

A side note. The rest of were sitting around bragging about having the common sense to sit out the rest of the contest when I happened to look over at the intermediate circle. The were still flying.
David won thes particular event.

Back to the original topic.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Joe Gieseke on April 13, 2018, 07:51:59 PM: Hi All

I don't remember allot of things that happened thru the years but I can share a bit.
The three dates on the plane are in relation to the build dates. The wing was built in the original model in the winter of 67, 68 and that plane won the Nats in 68 at Olathe Kansas.
In the winter of 73, 74 he removed the wing and built the existing fuselage and tail around that 68 wing. It won the Nats in Lake Charles and the WC in Prague Checklosavaki in 1974.
In the winter of 78, 79 he recovered and painted the plane, had the inverted landing event and won the 79 Nats in Lincoln Nebraska.

I asked Charlie to restore the plane for me as I prefer to have it looking good and more like it did when I shared that time with my dad and the US team in Checklosavaki.
I appreciate the work that Mr Lynch and Mr Reeves are putting into this project.
I'm looking forward to seeing it's completion and putting it on my wall next to a couple other models of his.

Joe G
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brett Buck on April 13, 2018, 08:18:53 PM: Quote from: Joe Gieseke on April 13, 2018, 07:51:59 PM

I asked Charlie to restore the plane for me as I prefer to have it looking good and more like it did when I shared that time with my dad and the US team in Checklosavaki.
I appreciate the work that Mr Lynch and Mr Reeves are putting into this project.
I'm looking forward to seeing it's completion and putting it on my wall next to a couple other models of his.

I think Charlie and Jim are great choices, and it will come out looking great - maybe as good or better than original!

As an aside, not the topic, but Bear was one of the finest gentlemen I have met in this event, and given the high standard, that is not something I say lightly. He was nothing but supportive of everything I did and at one point he was so effiusive it sounded like he was trying to start my fan club! I which I could have been around hi him more. We all miss him greatly!

Brett
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brent Williams on April 13, 2018, 08:25:56 PM: Joe, thanks for the backstory.

In case you haven't seen these pictures, here is a link to some photos from that era which show your father with this plane.
Fantastic historical collection by Claudia Kehnen.

1968 World Championships: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/albums/72157604352448022/page2
1970 World Championships : https://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/albums/72157604358968587/page2
1972 World Championships Helsinki: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/sets/72157604355600012/
1974 World Championships: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/sets/72157604357463550/with/30543751073/
1976 World Championships holland: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/sets/72157604364034814/
1978 World Championships: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/albums/72157604369814385/page1

Lots of really great stuff in this folders:
1950-1990: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/collections/72157604342996780

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/collections/
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Joe Gieseke on April 13, 2018, 09:03:29 PM: Thanks for sharing Brent. I saw allot of faces and models that I remember.

Joe G
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Warren Wagner on April 14, 2018, 09:54:19 AM: Brett,

Thanks for taking the time to post those photo links. Enjoyed them immensely. Our
sport/hobby has quite a colorful history...fortunately photos were taken so we haven't
lost it.

I'm happy that I did have the opportunity to meet Bob at the Nats one year. I had asked
him a question about measurements on his G. Nobler, and he said that if I still had
problems, to give him a call....the plane was hanging in his garage, and he would go
measure it for me. How often can one get a National and World Champion to do a
simple favor for you??

I sorry that he is no longer with us.

Cheers,

Warren Wagner
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: john e. holliday on April 14, 2018, 11:20:55 AM: Thanks for those links Brent. It is hard to believe I have been at this that long. Flying/attending many NATS got to meet a lot of those modelers. Wright&Dunkin were my mentors when I was trying/playing with F2C competition. H^^ H^^
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Larry Fernandez on April 14, 2018, 04:17:46 PM: This thread is great!
It has inspired me to build another Gieseke Nobler, replicating Bobs.
I built the Top Flite kit back in 1985. I didn’t fly well back then, (not that I fly well now)and I
had clue about trimming. But I sure had a lot of fun with that plane!

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: BYU on April 14, 2018, 06:00:40 PM: Quote from: Larry Fernandez on April 14, 2018, 04:17:46 PM
This thread is great!
It has inspired me to build another Gieseke Nobler, replicating Bobs.
I built the Top Flite kit back in 1985. I didn’t fly well back then, (not that I fly well now)and I
had clue about trimming. But I sure had a lot of fun with that plane!

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

What were you thinking, letting that homeless guy hold on to your plane?
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Larry Fernandez on May 10, 2018, 01:29:04 AM: Just wondering about the progress of this project.
I started building a Gieseke Nobler last month and I want to replicate Bobs version.
I have the Top Flite plans as well as Steve Moons drawings.
These plans show a very different cowl. I don’t know which version I will use at this time.
Does anybody happen to know if Bob used the kit type cowl on any of his planes

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Ken Culbertson on May 10, 2018, 07:30:46 AM: Quote from: Larry Fernandez on May 10, 2018, 01:29:04 AM
Just wondering about the progress of this project.
I started building a Gieseke Nobler last month and I want to replicate Bobs version.
I have the Top Flite plans as well as Steve Moons drawings.
These plans show a very different cowl. I don’t know which version I will use at this time.
Does anybody happen to know if Bob used the kit type cowl on any of his planes

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

I didn't personally get to see any of his planes after 1984 but some of the early ones did have a cowling that more resembled the Top Flight (Aldrich Version) Kit than the later versions. I remember the one pictured at the start of this post. I don't remember an early one without the side vents but that was over 40 years ago and memories cloud and merge, so there may have been one. Your best source for later versions will be the Moon brothers but I must warn you that although they may have looked the same , Bob was constantly changing the plane in small ways and was such a craftsman that the "official" plane always looked like it was new. Bob's "version" could be any one of dozens.

If anybody in this hobby/sport deserves the respect of being imitated it is Bob.

Ken
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Air Ministry . on May 10, 2018, 10:40:35 PM: Quote
This thread is great!
It has inspired me to build another Gieseke Nobler, replicating Bobs.

Im suffering the same inclinations .
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Larry Fernandez on May 22, 2018, 03:58:19 PM: Quote from: Larry Fernandez on May 10, 2018, 01:29:04 AM
Just wondering about the progress of this project.
I started building a Gieseke Nobler last month and I want to replicate Bobs version.

Here is the wing, stab and elevator built up and covered.
I opted for the Big Jim engine crutch as its lighter and much more rigid.
I also decided to update the control system with a four inch bellcrank, carbon fiber push rods, ball links and updated control geometry.

How is the restoration of Mr. Giesekes Nobler coming along?

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: proparc on May 25, 2018, 02:56:22 PM: What you guys are doing is an honor and a tribute to a great man. Keep up the good work!!
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Will Hinton on June 02, 2018, 02:32:39 PM: I just have to comment on Bob as a person. I had the privilege of flying out at the circle west of AMA with him and a couple of others. Here was a national champion, a world champion, and one of the icons of the sport talking to an intermediate flyer just like we were equals!
There was not a sign of anything in his demeaner but pure humility and a people lover. We became very good friends over the years at the nats and I always felt like we had known each other forever, and I miss that companionship anytime I return to the nats. What a wonderful man God gave us to enjoy for a time.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Larry Fernandez on November 24, 2020, 11:33:02 PM: I know this is an old thread, but I took the Nobler off the wall ( after two years) and started the finishing process.
After looking at SEVERAL of pictures of Bobs Noblers I can’t really tell the color between the red and the white.
In some of the pictures it looks black, and in others it looks to be dark blue. Could those in the know tell me what
color to use.
As an aside, Bobs son Joe, sent me a section of Bobs painted wing, to match for color. Many thanks Joe.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: John Park on November 25, 2020, 07:00:59 AM: Quote from: Brett Buck on December 20, 2017, 09:57:08 PM
He flew pretty slow for a Nobler with a Fox, but not extraordinarily slow. You did sometimes wonder whether it would make it over the top or through the overhead 8s, but it wasn't outlandish. He was also a proponent of "using the shortest lines he could get away with".

Brett
I would have shown up on this thread years ago, but the document I wanted was buried in my archives and has only just resurfaced. It's a magazine-sized one-off called The Control-Line Aeromodeller, published by the British AeroModeller magazine some time around 1975, and it contained an interview with Bob which appears to have been conducted by the magazine itself - not, as was often the case, reprinted from one of the US mags.
On the subject of flying-speed, I quote verbatim: "I usually give away the wingover and the overhead eights, as the slow motor run will just not allow these to be flown properly. My competitors will say I give everything away with these slow motors however!"
There's a lot of other information concerning his set-up (presumably at the time of the 1974 World Champs), such as the fact that he was using muffler pressure, Fox Superfuel and a Top Flite 11x5 1/2" prop trimmed to 10 1/2".
Maybe the interview I'm referring to is well known, but if anybody wants a copy I'll be happy to scan it for them - just send me a PM.

Regards
John
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Ken Culbertson on November 25, 2020, 10:08:07 AM: Quote from: John Park on November 25, 2020, 07:00:59 AM
"I usually give away the wingover and the overhead eights, as the slow motor run will just not allow these to be flown properly.
Regards
John
This is quite true. However what he was "giving away" most of us will never achieve. I have seen Bob patiently waiting for the plane to make it over the top with 3' of slack in the lines only to have the plane fly a perfectly straight arc and I have seen him on his back saving an overhead 8. The man was one of a kind. He knew how to make wind his friend.

Ken
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Air Ministry . on November 25, 2020, 08:01:45 PM: " but if anybody wants a copy I'll be happy to scan it for them "

better to post it on here .
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brett Buck on November 25, 2020, 08:41:04 PM: Quote from: John Park on November 25, 2020, 07:00:59 AM
On the subject of flying-speed, I quote verbatim: "I usually give away the wingover and the overhead eights, as the slow motor run will just not allow these to be flown properly. My competitors will say I give everything away with these slow motors however!"

That's even funnier if you knew what he really meant. But I think I will keep that one to myself for now.

Brett
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Chuck_Smith on November 26, 2020, 06:08:08 AM: I liked learning in this thread that one of the most famous stunt ships ever built was really a Frankenstein made up of the best parts. Or maybe it just kept evolving. Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Steve Dwyer on November 26, 2020, 08:07:19 AM: Chuck,

Here's some shots of the Gieseke nobler I was gifted a while back by Lyle, unfortunately, it was too far gone and could not be restored. Interesting it has the original BG colors. Building a Gieseke could become a project this winter, we've discussed this in the past.

Steve
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Steve Dwyer on November 26, 2020, 08:10:03 AM: Additional view.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Al Ferraro on November 26, 2020, 06:25:17 PM: On the subject of flying-speed, I quote verbatim: "I usually give away the wingover and the overhead eights, as the slow motor run will just not allow these to be flown properly. My competitors will say I give everything away with these slow motors however!"

Regards
John
[/quote]
A good running Fox 35 in a Nobler will fly 5.3 - 5.2 lap times with 58’ lines and break into a two stroke and have plenty of power to do all the demanding maneuvers without any problem, and is a joy to fly.
Al
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Ken Culbertson on November 26, 2020, 06:34:45 PM: Quote from: Al Ferraro on November 26, 2020, 06:25:17 PM
On the subject of flying-speed, I quote verbatim: "I usually give away the wingover and the overhead eights, as the slow motor run will just not allow these to be flown properly. My competitors will say I give everything away with these slow motors however!"

Regards
John

A good running Fox 35 in a Nobler will fly 5.3 - 5.2 lap times with 58’ lines and break into a two stroke and have plenty of power to do all the demanding maneuvers without any problem, and is a joy to fly.
Al
Did you ever see Bob fly one of his '70's Noblers? We didn't time laps much back then but I am willing to guess he flew around 5.6 to 5.8.

Ken
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brett Buck on November 26, 2020, 07:03:17 PM: Quote from: Ken Culbertson on November 26, 2020, 06:34:45 PM
Did you ever see Bob fly one of his '70's Noblers? We didn't time laps much back then but I am willing to guess he flew around 5.6 to 5.8.

Presumably it was the same in the early 80's when I first saw it, I think we got him around 5.5. It would have been a lot happier at 5.1-5.2, but this is Bear we are talking about, he had a plan and it was very successful for a long time.

Brett
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Ken Culbertson on November 26, 2020, 09:32:45 PM: Quote from: Brett Buck on November 26, 2020, 07:03:17 PM
Presumably it was the same in the early 80's when I first saw it, I think we got him around 5.5. It would have been a lot happier at 5.1-5.2, but this is Bear we are talking about, he had a plan and it was very successful for a long time.

Brett

I flew with him pre-bear but from what I hear from those in our group that did he was a bit faster with the Bear but still slow. His planes were disgustingly light.

Ken
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Brett Buck on November 26, 2020, 09:37:55 PM: Quote from: Ken Culbertson on November 26, 2020, 09:32:45 PM
I flew with him pre-bear but from what I hear from those in our group that did he was a bit faster with the Bear but still slow.

Not the airplane, the man himself. Fox 35 Gieske Nobler, about 1981.

On the topic of the Bear, the airplane, he had one what was 47 ounces with a PA65. At the 2003 NATs, that just made everything worse, it would just nearly come to a stop when it pointed the nose into the wind.

Brett
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Ken Culbertson on November 26, 2020, 10:29:43 PM: Quote from: Brett Buck on November 26, 2020, 09:37:55 PM
Not the airplane, the man himself. Fox 35 Gieske Nobler, about 1981.

On the topic of the Bear, the airplane, he had one what was 47 ounces with a PA65. At the 2003 NATs, that just made everything worse, it would just nearly come to a stop when it pointed the nose into the wind.

Brett
I am pretty sure that I have seen that one. Doug Moon had it out last week, it has "03" on the inboard tip. So light you have to use tie downs when it is in the pits.

I last flew with Bob somewhere between 81 and 82 so our time frames overlap. At that point he still had not built his first Bear. Locally some were running 46+ motors, Rabe, Pilgrim, McMillen but most of us were still using .35s. Mostly the OS35s. Not Bob. It was a Fox 35 period and the only pipe around was the one Bob was smoking.

How times have changed - Ken
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Doug Moon on November 26, 2020, 11:14:25 PM: Yes I had the 03 plane out this weekend. I haven't flown it in a long while, too busy screwing around with my latest troublesome animal. I have a PA 75 in the Bear now. It's really fun to fly that plane. I run a 65 2 bladed prop on it and it just cruises around. It will carve out rounds like a knife through butter. The round maneuver is always seen as an easy one to get top points on but it can be a bit deceiving at first when you are learning to get all of those points. The book shows the plane instantly into the shape from level lap. It can almost look like a jerking move at entry. You cant just lazily enter that first round or the shape is off. This plane will go from level to the shape with a snap if the wrist and it never gets upset. It instantly locks in on 2 lines with even pull all the way around. You can really focus on the shape and really carve out a nice perfect circle. It's a lot of fun to feel that on the end of the lines. It also lands perfectly. I do his little trick he told me about years ago and it works every time. That thing will stick to the ground and settle right in for a short roll. It's great to have that model and I am really so blessed and thankful I able to have such a beautiful piece of our stunt history. I think his last 35 sized plane is still around as well but I have not seen it at our field. I watched him fly that one when he was getting ready for VSC and it was really great to see him work through patterns with that plane. His skill really shined when "flying" the small plane. He didn't just point and shoot with an overpowered rig. He really "flew" those smaller underpowered planes.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Scott Richlen on November 27, 2020, 03:12:36 PM: Many years ago I had a business trip to Indianpolis and had some free time, so I decided to visit Jack Sheeks Hobby Shop. He had one of Bob Gieske's Noblers, but it was the one with an ST-46. It might have been a bit bigger than a regular Nobler - sort of looked like a Nobler on steroids.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Chris McMillin on January 14, 2021, 12:00:10 AM: I hope Jim and Charlie are well these days and the Nobler is still coming along. I was going through albums my dad, Jerry McMillin had kept from long ago and found this photo of Bob's 1967 model at the Los Alamitos, CA Nats. I think I was in between 2nd and 3rd grade there so must've been 8 years old.
Chris...
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Paul Raley on January 19, 2021, 04:10:52 PM: This has been a great thread! I built a tribute plane a number of years ago based on the photos I could find at the time. I see now a few things I would do different but a great flier in any case.
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Doug Moon on July 01, 2021, 04:13:53 PM: Hello,

Just curious if the plane has been completed?

Thank you
Doug
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Doug Moon on September 28, 2023, 04:24:54 PM: Are there any updates to this rebuild? Was it ever finished?
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Dave_Trible on September 28, 2023, 05:07:27 PM: Doug Charlie Reeves spent some time at my place in the last couple weeks. We talked about the Nobler. It was indeed finished a while before Jim passed. The airplane was given back to the family (Joe) and that's the last he/we know. Last I knew Joe lives and works here in my area at the MCI International airport though it's been at least a year or two since our last contact. We had talked about him coming out to the flying field but it hasn't happened.

Dave
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Dave_Trible on September 28, 2023, 05:17:11 PM: ..
Title: Re: Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added
Post by: Doug Moon on September 28, 2023, 11:10:22 PM: Dave,

Thank you for the update.

Doug