Update on Bob Gieseke's Nobler **** More photos added

[Paul Taylor]

I went over to visit Jim Lynch and see Charlie Reeves. Charlie came to Memphis to work on model planes. He was working on his Big Job and ask Jim to assist on repainting Bob's Nobler. Charlie was told that Bob always doubled the jap tissue in the center of the wing. He said he could tell it was a little thicker out to the first bay.
Charlie was having some issues getting the Top Flite graphics sized and replicated to the correct colors and I was able to help get it sized and cleaned up the images.

I saw this plane at Charlie's house this past summer. Dave Tribble gave some history on the plane while we were at Charlie's. Dave said he first saw this plane at the 68 NATs in Olathe, Kanas. He remembered the trim adjustment he made on the flap. Dave said he was 14yrs old at the time. Maybe Dave will chime in and give a little more history.
Just thought I would share.

Anyway here are the photos.
First are from Charlie's shop this summer, then after some restoration. If I get any updates pictures I will post here.


After



Note- Charlie said he did not touch any of the cockpit. The old melted canopy was replaced but it preserved the cockpit. Notice the paper next to the seat.
Some cool Stunt history.




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[Gerald Arana]

Is it going to fly again or just go to a museum?

Jerry

[Dave_Trible]

It’s great to see the progress on the airplane.  Charlie is just the guy for this.  I’m not sure what I can add and I also wonder still about a couple things.  At the ‘68 Nats Bob was working a trim issue with the plane figuring out about the tip weight and/or flap assymetry.  He kept pulling top weight and said he might grind out the tip weight box before he was done.  Then he started whacking on the inboard flap.  It was during this two- three days process he developed his hypothesis that he explained to me about it the problem was at or below 45 degrees it was tip weight.  If above that it was the flaps.  This has been something I attest to still today.  Those cuts on the flap are still there and visible. ( I hope Charlie leaves them). I wonder two things:  I have one of Bob’s engines that MAY have been in this airplane but I’ll never know for sure.  It’s a ‘63 gold tumble polished anniversary special.  At Charlie’s the plane a much newer Fox in it.  The other thing I wonder if this is the World Champion 1974 airplane as well.  Bob always called it the ‘74 airplane.  When he made any modification to the ship he used those tiny gold graphics next to the work to date them and indeed this airplane has one such 1974 marking on it so he WAS still flying this one then. 
The question about the jap tissue- my understanding was the whole thing had two layers, not just the center section.  When I was poking around on the ship I couldn’t tell.

Dave

[Bruce Shipp]

Did this plane have adjustable or fixed lead outs?

[James Holford]

Too darn cool!!

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[Doug Moon]

This is so very cool!!!  SO COOL!!

[EddyR]

 Way back many moons ago Bill Rich said Bob needed red Jap tissue. That is the super light stuff we used on 1/2 A ff models. I had a lot of it left from my FF days. I called Bob and offered it to him. I think it was around 10-15 sheets. Those sheets were not as large as regular tissue,maybe 12x24". That was sometime around 1984. Must have been for a later model.
 Is this the 48" wing?
Ed
 

[Skip Chernoff]

Thanks for sharing this info on Bob's plane. I've had many Noblers,but never the Gieske version. I've got a kit in the basement. When I'm done my Shark 45 (shortly) maybe I'll open that old TF kit .I bet they fly great!....PhillySkip

[Gerald Schamp]

Nice pictures, is there any chance you might show the nose and cowl section. Different than the kit version for sure. Is there any view of the air ducting that was shown in one of the magazine articles, I think it was in Stunt News, but would love to see what is on this model. Thanks much, Gerald Schamp

[Dave_Trible]

Did this plane have adjustable or fixed lead outs?

I don't remember, if I actually ever knew.  Bob was an innovator on finite trim so if adjustable leadouts were in use you can bet they are there.  I do know guys were moving them even if they had to cut.  Maybe Paul remembers.  I think someplace I may still have an old Polaroid
Swinger picture of Bob with the plane in Olathe.  If I should find it I'll try to post it.

[Paul Taylor]

Yes it had adjustable LO.
The type you had to move a brass grommets.

[Paul Taylor]

This is old picture. I will try and get a update next time I stop by.


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[Air Ministry .]

Loks f***ing good .

I like the ' patania ' . Think As it sits it incorporates all the original history and heritage , so best preserved UN RESPRAYED .

After all . If you wanted a respray , constructing a exact replica ( Hop to it , it'll only take a few minutes ) would represent it in all its glory .
Leaving the original Authentic .

Hate it when a old race bike is tarted and polished up , often ignoring its original ' Race Spec tune ' and presented as representing ' the real thing ' .

You have ' the Real Thing ' There . As Is , NOW . Clear coat etc would be more than enough. ( Sorry to go on, just my take on it . )

[Olli-Matti]

Very cool model! A real classic for sure 

You don't happen to have any pictures of the underside of this? Rarely seen on the era photos so now could be a great chance to take the pic

Br
Ollie

[Dave_Trible]

I've been trying a little photo study on this airplane and my findings so far lead me to think this airplane:
1.  Is the 1966 Walker Cup winner.
2.  Is NOT the 1974 World airplane.
3.  Was brought back out to win the 1979 Walker Cup.

This is the one in the lower photo taken at 'some' World Champs.  The top photo at the 1975 Nats where Bob again put his name on the cup.  That airplane is the World airplane. It's whereabouts unknown but likely still exists, perhaps with his family.  His brother Don was demo-flying it at one Nats in the 90's. 

Dave

[RandySmith]

I've been trying a little photo study on this airplane and my findings so far lead me to think this airplane:
1.  Is the 1966 Walker Cup winner.
2.  Is NOT the 1974 World airplane.
3.  Was brought back out to win the 1979 Walker Cup.

This is the one in the lower photo taken at 'some' World Champs.  The top photo at the 1975 Nats where Bob again put his name on the cup.  That airplane is the World airplane. It's whereabouts unknown but likely still exists, perhaps with his family.  His brother Don was demo-flying it at one Nats in the 90's. 

Dave

I think it is both the  1974  WC winner  and the airplane he won the  1975 NATs with, I was there flying  and Bob said the plane he had was the WC winner, he also  crashed this airplane at the  1975 NATs,  and  you can clearly see  the rudder addition where the rudder was scarped off, you can also see  the wingtip  scars where the plane went into the ground.  BOB  repaired the airplane at the NATs, and  then flew it to a  NATs  win

Randy

[Dave_Trible]

I do think the WC plane and the 75 Nats airplane are the same.  My wonder about the airplane being restored is the paint trim at the tips.  That trim was not on this airplane.  However I found a photo of the 79 Nats winner and it looks to be the same as the 66 airplane and the one Charlie has.  I do see the rudder work.  I was thinking a modification or maybe yet another low outside bottom.

Dave

[M. Scott]

You are right Randy, same model... maybe. This model that Charlie is working on is the World Championship model. It sat on Bob's work bench for years along side the Only Yellow Nobler that he built up until his passing. That one currently hangs in my shop.  Some more history as I was told by Bear, the WC model, the magic was in the wing. It flew by itself and had a mind of its own. That wing was in four different models... that is why I said maybe. Every one was a winner. He was just along for the ride. My opinion, it took both together to win... what a great Gentlemen.
Mike

[Dennis Toth]

Not to get to far off topic but since you have the original airplanes - what type of tank did he use in them straight vent or uniflow?

Best,    DennisT

[Air Ministry .]

Yes , definately Far Out . etc .

Been contemplateing this ,

A good few coats of CLEAR , as dope ways 2/10 of 5/8 of s. f . a.  , and polished back with 600 , youd preserve all the dogma

and could get a mist coat of colour  with the intricasies etc clean & smooth on that , then the usual 10 plus clear over that /

dont forget the plasticiser .

First Class Aeroplane obviously . a few in cowl & in engine bay pictures would be nice . We'll be after a dimensioned drawing next 

at least for the flying surfaces & moments . 

Thanks for the pictures . Sure snapped the eyes open when youd first posted them as found , a while back .   

[Manuel Cortes]

Lovely thread.


Thanks all for share this part of stunt history.

Kind regards from Spain.

[Allan Perret]

This is REALY cool stuff.  Curious how Charlie ended up with this bird.  Paul if you ever do another Memphis contest what would really be cool is to get this model there for display (under plexiglass off course) so we can just look at it.  I think it might help the contest turn out..  I been wanting to build a BEAR for 10 years now.  M. Scott and the Moon brothers, we NEED a sets of plans..  I have a new PA75 looking for a worthy design to haul around.  Make this happen and I will fly it at Garland Park.  I know I could never build it to come in close to a Bob G bird weight-wise, but the PA75 won't care..
What is the most accurate Gieske Nobler plan currently available ?   I think a Stalker 51re might be the engine sweet spot in that one.  And yes I know what PJ did. 

[Frank Imbriaco]

Indeed- quite neat and very interesting. Glad it's not a total restoration and re- spray. There is something special about an old, worn stunter much like a classic car or motorcycle. The intrigue lies within one's imagination of where , when and how it flew. Like most, I enjoy seeing shiny brand new stunters. But one such as this and a few of Gene S. that I saw at Hunt's are magical.
 I've seen Scarinzi's collection of his old stunters  ( Trident, Blue Angel ,etc.) and combat ships( Killer, Giant Killer, Super Satan,etc. ) and they are remarkably preserved.

 As a teenager, I met Bob G. at the 1968 Olathe, Kansas NATS.

Impressive pilot, impressive individual.

[Bob Hunt]

This might be one of the most intriguing threads ever posted here. And, yes, Charlie is THE GUY to do the restoration. But, one thing has been bothering me, and I'm asking Paul Taylor to correct it: Let's get Bob's last name right in the thread title. It's Gieseke...

Thanks for starting this up, Paul and please don't take my comment as a criticism. Bob's name has been spelled and pronounced in myriad different ways over the years.

Later - Bob Hunt 

[Andre Ming]

Hi Bob:

How IS Bob' G's name pronounced? I thought I recalled hearing Duke pronounce it "Gee (as in "geek") zih (as in zit) key". Close?

Shame it needs to be restored... lost forever will be the original finish/colors/etc.

Andre

[RandySmith]

You are right Randy, same model... maybe. This model that Charlie is working on is the World Championship model. It sat on Bob's work bench for years along side the Only Yellow Nobler that he built up until his passing. That one currently hangs in my shop.  Some more history as I was told by Bear, the WC model, the magic was in the wing. It flew by itself and had a mind of its own. That wing was in four different models... that is why I said maybe. Every one was a winner. He was just along for the ride. My opinion, it took both together to win... what a great Gentlemen.
Mike

Hi Mike

what happened  to the  small airplane  Bob  called  the  "Little Bear" ?

And  yes  Bob  was famous  for  reusing parts  that he thought were  special  :-)


Randy

[Paul Taylor]

This might be one of the most intriguing threads ever posted here. And, yes, Charlie is THE GUY to do the restoration. But, one thing has been bothering me, and I'm asking Paul Taylor to correct it: Let's get Bob's last name right in the thread title. It's Gieseke...

Thanks for starting this up, Paul and please don't take my comment as a criticism. Bob's name has been spelled and pronounced in myriad different ways over the years.

Later - Bob Hunt

I will correct it on the main headed. Thanks Bob for pointing it out.

[john e. holliday]

I think it was the Lake Charles NATS that I had a chance to meet and talk to Bob.  Quite a gentleman.  The plane he had was the one that won both the NATS and Worlds in the same year.  He stated that the plane consisted of parts from three different planes.   

[Zuriel Armstrong]

I loved Bob's planes back in the day. It was a thrill to finally meet him and a thrill to see this plane in person.

[Brett Buck]

I think it was the Lake Charles NATS that I had a chance to meet and talk to Bob.  Quite a gentleman.  The plane he had was the one that won both the NATS and Worlds in the same year.  He stated that the plane consisted of parts from three different planes.   

      Even in a sport of gentlemen, Bear was a cut above, one of the finest people I have met in any venue or context.

     Brett

[Mike Keville]

Agreed, 100%.  When he came to the VSC he greeted me warmly although I was not remotely in his league.  A true gentleman!

mk

[Jim Kraft]

I got to talk to Bob at VSC one year about his Noblers, and yes, he was a fine gentleman. He was very humble and liked talking about his disasters more than his successes. So glad I got to spend a little time with him as he was always one of my heroes. Loved the pictures in the magazines of him and his Nobler. And thanks to you Mike for making such a meeting able to happen. I will be forever grateful.

[Air Ministry .]

This is REALY cool stuff.  Curious how Charlie ended up with this bird.  Paul if you ever do another Memphis contest what would really be cool is to get this model there for display (under plexiglass off course) so we can just look at it.  I think it might help the contest turn out..  I been wanting to build a BEAR for 10 years now.  M. Scott and the Moon brothers, we NEED a sets of plans..  I have a new PA75 looking for a worthy design to haul around.  Make this happen and I will fly it at Garland Park.  I know I could never build it to come in close to a Bob G bird weight-wise, but the PA75 won't care..
What is the most accurate Gieske Nobler plan currently available ?   I think a Stalker 51re might be the engine sweet spot in that one.  And yes I know what PJ did.

If you look on the BEAR 46 thread on Nostalgia 30 , and follow the links , Particularly the new world beater fred ,
youll get data on the Geo Bear ,( a Wewage Geo T-Bolt wing Bear Bob Did .

The .46 appears to be ' about this ( 97 Bear 46/60 ) minus a inner bay Ea Side , to 620 Sq rather than 659  sq in .
Delete the pipe tunnel , lower deck straight through Fwd should cover the injun . Plenty of Gieseke Bear pictures come up on SEARCH .



Thats a Steve Moon inked plan .



A old issue of the AMA mag , has Bob Gieseke quoted as saying " Free Play in the elevator horn is essential , to give about 1/8 slack ea side of neutral " PLUS the 1:1 Control ratio ( Flap to Elevator  )

Drg Above by Bob . ( Downloadable from Hippocket or suchlike ) assume to match the airframe here , with accurate wing dimension & tailplane assy . . . We'd be Home . A Authentic Giseke Nobler Plan . !

Theres a chance this ones authentic , too . 

[wwwarbird]

This might be one of the most intriguing threads ever posted here. And, yes, Charlie is THE GUY to do the restoration.

 I agree, this is a very cool project. A shoe in for any "Keeper of the Flame" award too, maybe VSC 2018?

[Doug Moon]

Here are some pictures of his only yellow Nobler.  Mike Scott has this one in his shop.  I think Mike also has one of the 97 Bears as well in really good condition with a tiny bit of hangar rash on the tail.  Then there is the 99 which was a "mule" used for many motor break ins and experiments.  It has 1000s of flights on it, and it looks like it has been through a war. There are a few other planes of his around as well.  I have his 2003 model and still fly it today.  I have over 100 patterns on it this year!! His grandson has his last Gieseke Nobler he built and flew at VSC.  It is a really nice plane in excellent condition. I would love to get my hands on that one.  His son Joe has his 2004 model. His last stunt plane.  It sat alone on the front row at that years concourse judging, 19 points. I want a few rounds with that one too. That one had a 21" tail moment.  About 6 months before he passed I asked him about that plane and how it flew. He said if he could build another one he would make the tail even longer.  But he couldn't because his car was too small. "Time for a bigger car I guess."    That was Bob, always thinking ahead and what he could do on his next one to make it fly a better pattern, while always ready for a laugh.  Not only was he a model airplane builder and flyer and was truly on a quest to fly the perfect pattern.  It was a quest he carried with him to his dying days.  I met and got to know him later in his stunt career and life and maybe that gives me a little different perspective. But from where I stood it was a simply a burning desire within him to really conquer the "pattern." And just when he was close it would slip away a little due to wind or trim or whatever and he would fight back and get ahead of it again.  Building and flying model planes is not something he did it was what he was.  It was more than that for him.  I am glad for him, and us, that he was able to fly for so long in his life.  It would have been very hard for him to have to watch for many many years and not get in on the action. I am also very glad for him later in his life that he has such a nice and caring daughter that would drive with him to nats every year he was up for it so he could watch and be a part of the event that was such a part of his life. I really wish he could have had one more session at Hobby Park with the trees cut down...just one more.  I am sorry to ramble on so much but it's late and I started thinking back on it....

[Doug Moon]

I have to post these one at a time since we are still restricted to 1000KB.....

[Doug Moon]

..

[Doug Moon]

..

[M. Scott]

Thanks Doug for posting the pictures, I am not sure how. I will send more to you this afternoon of the models that I have.
Hi Randy.... not sure of the one called Little Bear, along with the Yellow Gieseke, I have the
96 and the 99. The 99 is the one that he let Doug and my self copy and I won Advanced class in 2000 with. I had painted it like his Yellow Gieseke. I am 99% sure that I was the first to win with the PA .65, had just came out. What a great motor.
Lots of the planes from Bobs estate went to family members. but my intent so far is for the Yellow Gieseke to go to a museum at Triple Tree during the Joe Nall. This will be fun.
Mike

[Bob Hunt]

It's too bad the attached photo is not in color. It is of my son, Robby Hunt and Bob Gieseke at the 1991 Nats in Lawrenceville, IL. Bob and Robby were great friends and they corresponded right up to the point when Bob left us.

Bob is holding the yellow Gieseke Nobler that is pictured in the previous posts on this thread. Robby is holding the first of the two Europas that he flew in the early 1990s.

Bob Hunt

[RandySmith]

..

The Yellow  Nobler  Bob  had, was  the  one  That I believe  had the  ST  G34 in it, does the engine still  reside there, or did Bob replace it. ?   I know he  had talked about an Aero Tiger  upgrade for it

Randy

[M. Scott]

It still has the same Motor, I thought it was a .32, but I could not remember.
Mike

[Air Ministry .]

I am sorry to ramble on so much but it's late and I started thinking back on it....

Reminisance . How will us peasants know , otherwise . sounds like youve got a pretty good line on the Bear etc Development .   

[Olli-Matti]

Can anyone confirm the underside colors?

[Dave_Trible]

They are a copy of the top,  less the AMA number.  BTW the stripes were white.  Age and sunlight haven’t been friendly.
 
Dave

[Dennis Toth]

Bob built one version with a shorter 48" wing span, I believe he really like this with the Fox 35 but it was somehow damaged before he could compete with it. Anyone have details on it?

Best,   DennisT

[Paul Taylor]

Stopped by Jim's shop today and got more photos.




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[M. Scott]

This is Great guys, Thanks for posting all the photos.
Mike

[Air Ministry .]

       

[Paul Taylor]

I find it interesting that the tank is built in.
Also the engine was cleaned but not disassembled.
The dots on the wing are there to cover the damage from the inverted landing.